This is page numbers 2513 - 2554 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was work.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I sit on the economic development and environment committee, and I do have concerns with the bill. In fact, I most likely will be voting against it. My concerns really revolve around a couple of areas. First off, I do not believe that this is a requirement for Marine Transportation Services to operate; and secondly, I am concerned about the purpose of the revolving fund, and what it covers and what it doesn't cover. Lastly, I also believe that setting this up as a revolving fund will limit the ability of Regular MLAs to have oversight on capital acquisitions of marine transportation systems.

I also want to state clearly for the record that I do support our government operating this in the absence of a private sector operator, and we do want to make sure that our remote communities have access to transportation systems. I certainly support that. My concerns are with setting this up as a revolving fund. I do have some questions for the Minister, and I would like to start with if he could tell us who was consulted in preparing the bill? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Infrastructure consulted internally with the Departments of Finance and Justice regarding the establishment of the revolving fund for the MTS, and we also consulted with Transport Canada, the Department of Lands, and the Department of Environmental and Natural Resources to discuss regulatory and safety requirements associated with MTS as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. No one outside of government was actually consulted during the preparation of this bill, and no one in Hay River was consulted? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

No, no one else. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is a concern of mine. It is the process as well, then, as to who was consulted in preparation of the bill, and I think it would have been more helpful if there had been opportunities for the public to express some views on this, but I understand the department is in a rush to get this done. Can someone tell me whether this is a requirement for the operation of MTS, or is this just the preferred option for the department? MTS could go off and continue to operate, but this revolving fund is not a requirement for the operations? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The establishment of the revolving fund, in our view, is a transitional step. We were going to return to standing committee in the fall with the proposal for the long-term structure of this entity; and moving forward, that was our whole role and intent as the Member alluded that he does not think this is a necessary step. We can probably run empty, yes, without doing this, but it would cause a lot of confusion around the finances about how this thing operates. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think I heard the Minister say, then, that this is not a requirement for MTS to operate. That is what I understand as well, so we are on the same page on that. Can a department not maintain a separate set of accounts internally so that the operation of this could be tracked? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will defer that to Mr. McCormick.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. McCormick.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Mccormick

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We cannot run segregated separate accounts within the department. We can track it as a project in the system, but this is the only way to segregate it from the consolidated revenue fund. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. McCormick. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I understand it would be possible to track the funds in and out separately, and that is good to know. What sort of oversight will the Regular MLAs have if this continues to operate as a revolving fund? Is it going to be separately reported in the main estimates? Are we only going to see it in the public accounts? What sort of oversight is there for Regular MLAs if this is set up as a revolving fund? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. McCormick.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Mccormick

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The oversight, primarily, would come through the business planning process where there will be a chance for fulsome discussion about this. The financial statements, of course, will be audited, fully audited, and published, consolidated with the public accounts and published on the Finance web site. We are still in discussions with the Department of Finance about how exactly, and if and what method the capital piece of this would be presented, whether it would be part of the capital mains, or there would be some other reporting process we would follow.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. McCormick. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the answer, and that increases my discomfort level, but I understand that is going to get sorted out eventually. I think there is a real concern about the ability of Regular MLAs to do their job when they do not have oversight, particularly on the capital expenditure side. I want to move forward to the purpose of the revolving fund. It is to meet the capital operating maintenance requirements and providing grain transportation services and movement of cargo. When our government purchased the assets, they obviously purchased, or acquired a bunch of environmental liabilities. The wording of this for the purpose of the revolving fund, would this legally preclude those funds being used for remediation of any of the contaminated sites that are part of the assets that we have acquired? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The revolving fund would not be specifically used to address the environmental liabilities. Those are currently addressed through the GNWT's environmental liability fund, and that is administered and funded by the Department of Finance. We would identify our environmental liabilities like we do on any other government asset and report them to the Department of Finance, and they would be tracked and processed through the environmental liabilities fund. In the event we had excess or surplus revenues that will be returned to the government as a form of general revenues, the government could choose to apply those funds towards environmental liabilities or any other financial need of the government. Thank you, Mr. Chair.