This is page numbers 2513 - 2554 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was work.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I said earlier, the Standing Committee on Government Operations heard from Mr. Roger Walker as owner and general manager of Territorial Tobacco Products. Mr. Walker presented us with a great many documents and a long history of dealing with taxation of tobacco in the Northwest Territories and his concerns about potential tax slippage. We were also provided with information from the government's own internal audit bureau on this, and at this point the standing committee is content with the response from government, and his concerns fell outside of the scope of the bill, it was felt that there was limited involvement in what we can do, but certainly the issues he brought to the floor were relevant to our discussions around the purpose of this legislation which is one of which is the creation of a territorial stamp to prevent smuggling.

The other way the act changes is to require the collection of taxes on tobacco products at the time tobacco is acquired by wholesale dealers for the purposes of resale. There are around seven wholesalers that operate in the Northwest Territories. Only one of those is resident to the Northwest Territories which puts Mr. Walker in an uncomfortable position of advocating for an industry of which he is sole member. However, this purchase method does not really have a large impact on the major wholesalers that operate down south. Let us call them corporate wholesalers. But for Mr. Walker's operation it is a much smaller and territorial-based one. So I guess my question for the Minister would be does this move to a purchase method put an additional burden that particularly affects Northerners as northern businesses will be required to purchase upfront just like their southern counterparts? What we heard from Mr. Walker is that could be a cost of $200,000 to $500,000.

Was any consideration given to that when contemplating the purchase method or when considering whether northern businesses would have special dispensation to deal with the new regulations? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we believe that if the wholesaler manages their inventory correctly then it should not put them at a disadvantage. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you. Thank you for that. In the consultation around this bill, was Territorial Tobacco Products consulted on this and did the business provide comment on the purchase method? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. The Minister has indicated that Mr. Koe will fill this. Mr. Koe.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Koe

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Territorial Tobacco Products was consulted at this stage. They did provide a letter of reply to our consultation letter. They did make some comments around the purchase method, but none of the comments were about any capital concerns or any inventory concerns. They were about the overall control of the tobacco products and collecting the proper amount of tax revenues for tobacco products sold in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you for that. I'm content that the government did conduct its consultations appropriately. I just raise this issue because often we aspire to very effective legislation that's based on examples drawn from other jurisdictions and sometimes we can forget that Northerners and northern districts may not be up to the same capacity as southern jurisdictions. I guess I'll just leave it with this. I think we're only affecting a small section of the economy, and if Mr. Walker did not raise those concerns, then I'm content that these concerns have been properly addressed through the legislative process. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart. No more comments. I see no further comments or questions. Does committee agree that we proceed to a clause-by-clause review?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. We'll defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Committee, please turn to page 1 of the bill. Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Tobacco Tax Act. I will read out the clause and, if committee agrees, just please respond within an "agreed." Clause 1.

---Clauses 1 through 15 inclusive approved

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Committee, to the bill as a whole. Does committee agree that Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Tobacco Tax Act, is now ready for third reading?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Bill 15 is now ready for third reading. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Tobacco Tax Act?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister and your witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Committee, we have next agreed to consider Bill 26, An Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act, No. 2. I will turn to the Minister responsible for any opening comments that he may have. I believe that's Minister Schumann.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to introduce Bill 26, An Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act, No. 2. This bill would amend the Revolving Funds Act and establish a new revolving fund for the Marine Transportation Services with an authorized limit of $35 million. The proposed revolving fund would meet the capital operating and maintenance requirements in providing marine transportation services to the communities on Great Slave Lake, Mackenzie River, and the Arctic Coastal Region. A business model for Marine Transportation Services is currently under development, which will help determine how Marine Transportation Services will be operated in the future.

The summer operations will inform the analysis as to which business model will likely be the most appropriate. We will return with options for the long-term structure of this entity in the fall. In the interim, segregating monies by means of this revolving fund will allow these marine operations to be self-financing. Costs associated with ongoing operations, maintenance, and capital expenditures in this manner will not require the government of Northwest Territories to fund these through appropriations as is required from normal program delivery. It will also prevent financial confusion and ultimately facilitate the transition to a long-term business model once it is decided upon.

Our purchase of the shipyard, terminals, and marine fleet is a strategic investment in transportation infrastructure that provides jobs, helps stimulate our economy, and will maintain the Mackenzie River as a primary route for safely and effectively moving essential goods to our communities. Bill 26 will facilitate a successful sailing season this summer as we consider options for the long-term business model of the Marine Transportation Services. This is a key step that will ensure a seamless transition to critical marine re-supply services for NWT residents and businesses now and into the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Do you have witnesses you wish to bring to the Chamber?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, will you please introduce your witnesses?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my right, I have Deputy Minister Paul Guy of Infrastructure and on my far right is John Vandenberg, assistant deputy minister of programs and services, and on my left is Vince McCormick, director of corporate services.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. As we agreed to send this bill directly to Committee of the Whole, it was not reviewed by a standing committee, so we have no opening comments to go to but I will open up the floor. General comments and I have a list started. First, Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Standing Committee of Economic Development and Environment in fact did have the opportunity to interact with the Minister on this bill. We did share with the Minister some items of concern. However, most of those have to do with the future of the marine transportation system. We certainly recognize the need for the amendment to the Revolving Funds Act so that the MTS, if we can call it that now, has the ability to function with the degree of fluidity much like a business and allowing the flexibility that it needs to react quickly, if need be.

We also want to take the opportunity to commend the government for stepping up and acting fast to make this acquisition possible as the Minister alluded to in his comments, the former provider had provided critical services to the territory for a long period of time and knowing that we could have possibly lost this critical service that the reliance on this service to the community was highly important and that the acquisition was necessary. We also want the department to know that the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment wants to work with the department going forward on the future of the evolution of MTS and we will be seeking to engage the public on that front, but in the meantime, we appreciate the department's resources, human and otherwise, are very focused right now on finishing up the transition but more importantly getting ready for the forthcoming sailing season and that's crucial to our communities.

I'm not sure that I have anything more to add at this point. I just want the department to know that by and large, there was no real opposition to the revolving funds amendment itself. Generally, we find ourselves in support. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Next I have Mr. O'Reilly.