Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't have to bother the Minister anymore then about that one with Christmas analogies. I'm sorry; I didn't really follow the discussion about what level of funding is actually contained in here. There's been no increases whatsoever for the municipal capital funding in this budget over last year; is that what I heard?

Because in last year's budget, as I recall, I think there was a small, maybe it was a 2 per cent increase or something, but there was a gain for municipal governments in the capital budget last year, so this is the exact same funding they got last year or has there been an increase for CPI? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Cochrane.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The honourable Member is incorrect. Actually, last year's funding did not have any increase for capital; it was only for operating and maintenance. This year is the same, so we have been trying to leverage the funding through the federal government to address the capital needs at this point.

I think it should be noted, though, at this point the capital for the next two years, the gas tax went up 2 per cent last year, was what he was talking about. With the federal infrastructure money the communities are actually fine for the two years because of the federal infrastructure monies for capital. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Just to follow up with one question. There has been no CPI increase in this year's money over last year? I want to confirm that because when I look at the money -- yes, we'll start with that. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Young.

Thank you, Ms. Young. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't have any further questions. I want to thank the Minister and her witness for answering all my questions really well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Cochrane.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We try our best to answer the questions very well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Anything further, Mr. O'Reilly?

No, thanks, Mr. Chair. My time is up. Thank you.

Thank you. Next we have Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, just along the same line, that has always been a bit of point of contention for me, actually, the capital project money going into the municipalities hasn't changed since the new deal, I think. I think the money has been $28 million, and then now it's decreased for Deline, but that's actually not really a decrease because that's just a transfer.

I think the Minister's answer is trying to live within the economic realities of today, but I personally see it the opposite way. If you increase the money going into the communities, I think that it would save money. Like money being spent, actual money being spent in the communities, has proven to save money in social spending. If we look at one of the things that they've done a model on was the National Guardianship Program and similar programs like that, where leveraging $1 was reducing social spending in Australia, as an example, by $3.70, and the money spent with the Nihat'ni Dene in Lutselk'e was saving $2.50 per dollar spent in the project.

My feeling is that we should not use that reason for not increasing the budget, because when you spend money, you reduce a lot of -- plus there are all kinds of other benefits, too, to GNWT spending money at the community level. I think that the department should take a serious look at increasing that budget at some point down the road. Like I said, no change. There are quite a few departments that have spent quite a few dollars during those 10 years or 12 years since the new deal has been signed. I do not know the exact year, but I know in 2007 when I became an MLA, there was a new deal then. There is no change in that money. I guess I cannot ask the Minister to increase the budget now. As a committee, we did not discuss that, so I am not going to ask the Minister on the floor to contemplate that, but for the future, I think that we should consider moving this money up. This is really good spending at the community level, and I think that it is important.

Also, with the same pot of money, I guess my question is that it is at $27 million some-odd dollars going into the communities. Some have surplus. There is an indication that the reason to have surpluses is they are having some difficulty spending the money. There have been legislation or policies put into effect that will allow the community to use this money to borrow money privately in order to do projects.

I want to ask the Minister if they have any sort of structure that would support the communities who wish to carry out their projects or advance their community projects using this money. I do not know if that is really clear, but that is my question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Cochrane.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You look totally different now. It kind of caught me off guard. Yes, the communities actually can use their capital funding to actually borrow money. The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs does have guidelines around how that can be utilized, though. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, is that applicable to Aboriginal community governments as well? I recognize that this would be standard for the hamlets and others elected among the entire population, like the town councils and so on. Would that also be applicable, when you have Aboriginal governments that have an agreement with the department to have this money, for spending this money? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Cochrane.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. With the Aboriginal governments' designated authorities, they can also use their capital funding to leverage it to borrow monies. Again, they have to agree, and they have to ideally use our guidelines to do that. We have done that with the Yellowknives Dene. We have done that just recently; so it is an option that they can use as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Cochrane. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no more questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Blake.