Debates of Feb. 22nd, 2018

This is page numbers 3347 – 3406 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

Oral Questions
Prayer
Northwest Territories Airport Improvements
Missing And Murdered Indigenous Women And Girls
Addressing Core Housing Needs
Willow River Bridge And All-Weather Road
Canadian North Lng Corp.
Carbon Tax Policy
Land Transfer Tax Proposal
Eulogy For Victorine (Vicky) Desjarlais
Ministerial Meetings Transparency And Accountability
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Nicole Latour – Nova Scotia Chief Electoral Officer’s Quality, Value And Service Award
Liquid Natural Gas Proposal
Willow River Bridge All-Weather Road Project
Carbon Tax Policy
Ministerial Meetings – Transparency And Accountability
Core Housing Needs Funding
Proposed Access To Information And Protection Of Privacy Legislation
Formula Funding For Municipalities
Tabled Document 91-18(3): Correspondence To Mary Simon Regarding Arctic Leadership Model
Tabled Document 92-18(3): Energy Initiatives Report 2016-2017
Tabled Document 93-18(3): Inuvialuit Water Board Budget 2018-2019
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Summary Conviction Procedures Act
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Report of Committee of the Whole
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Report of Committee of the Whole (Reversion)
Orders of the Day

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As you mentioned, Prairie Creek is out of an EA. It is in the hands of the INAC Ministers and the responsible Ministers from the GNWT. That is where the Minister has asked for more engagement with the Aboriginal communities in the Deh Cho, and then they come back for her final decision on the water licence.

As for liability, there is some historical liability there that the federal government is responsible for, and unless this mine actually takes off and goes to production, then, at that time, there are liabilities that could be incurred by the territorial government, but in order for them to go into production, they will have to apply for a lease from the Department of Lands. On that lease, we have the power and the ability to put in the required securities that we feel are needed to take care of the liability that could possibly be incurred by an operating mine. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to add, the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board has a total security amount of $17,007,000, which the proponent will be required to post in stages, if and when the project proceeds. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Sebert. Time has expired, Mr. O'Reilly. Any further questions from committee? Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is also the activity in which we see the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act identified. Maybe I will start with asking the department, through their policy and legislation communications, have they identified any concerns or challenges that we are faced with, with regard to the MVRMA? Is there any undertaking as it relates to working with the federal government to make changes, if necessary, prior to our inheritance of the MVRMA, come 2019? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

The Department of Lands led the GNWT's participation in the current proposed amendments to the MVRMA and also the proposed Federal Impact Assessment Act. Members will recall that there was some litigation that led to the change in the federal government's process or procedures in this whole matter. I think, ultimately, we would like to bring this piece of legislation home, but that may be sometime in the future.

We have participated in the federal review of environmental and regulatory processes. I don't know if Mr. Hagen wants to add anything to that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Hagen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Hagen

Yes. One of your questions was whether we work closely with Land and Water Boards under the MVRMA, and we do work very closely with them, almost on a daily basis, when there is a development on the application in, and there is a half-dozen of them at different stages as we speak.

Lands has only participated in the current proposed amendments of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. The actual negotiations of bringing the MVRMA home to the Government of the Northwest Territories is led by the Department of EIA, and the bill with the proposed amendments to the MVRMA has not yet been tabled in Parliament. Officials from Crown-Indigenous Relations, or CIRNA, have not communicated with us when this is expected to occur. It was supposed to be early fall, and, obviously, they did not meet that date. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

February 22nd, 2018

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay, so I appreciate that the Department of Lands is working closely with the land and water boards. That is respectful. I also appreciate that it is EIA that is kind of the lead as it relates to working with the federal government on any amendments. I guess the question is: are we aware of concerns that need change in the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, and is the Department of Lands aware of any of those? Are they suggesting or making recommendations to EIA about what might need to be changed in the MVRMA before we inherit it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I see a note here that on February 8th Catherine McKenna wrote me committing that the government will continue to engage the GNWT through the Parliamentary process to seek our views on regulatory and policy issues. Perhaps I could let Mr. Hagen expand on that, but yes, we are engaged with them, and they do seem to want our engagement. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Hagen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like I said, Lands is doing the current proposed amendments, and the negotiations to bring the MVRMA home do include negotiating further amendments. We will have to get it home and do our own amendments. The bill that I mentioned, the proposed amendments to the MVRMA, that was stalled approximately three years ago now on the court action launched by the Tlicho government when the federal Harper government of the day wanted to make one super-board. In there are amendments that, in my future life, we put together some -- I say they are great amendments -- that are still there in this proposed amendment going forth to Parliament. Those amendments will come, and they will make a big difference in the MVRMA as you see it today. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just lastly, we are working with the federal government. We clearly are working with the land and water boards. We are working interdepartmentally with ourselves. Have we taken any initiative to reach out to industry? Are we working with industry and listening to industry and their concerns? I know that they have concerns that they have shared before with our government. Are we reacting or taking any action with regard to those? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Mr. Hagen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we are always taking industry, mining, and so on into consideration. They attend many public forums with us and the Mackenzie Land and Water Boards. They put their wishes forward, if I can call them that, for amendments, and they also meet with the federal government, too. It is all federal legislation, so they are the ones who they have to convince at the end of the day to make any changes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Hagen. Further questions? Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I want to go back to Prairie Creek just for a minute, if I can. I am trying to understand whether there are any legal impediments to us increasing the financial security now to cover the existing liabilities that are at the site. As I understand it, the lease is now in an overhold tenancy position. Are there any legal impediments to us changing the financial security now to cover the existing liabilities? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

As I mentioned previously, Canadian Zinc has met all current security requirements under the permits, licences, and authorizations, and we are holding slightly over $2 million in securities. I am not certain, but I could look into it to see whether an overholding lease would allow us to increase the security. It seems to me that it might be unlikely that we would have the ability to do that. That might be seen as being in bad faith, but we could get back to you with an answer. Mr. Hagen tells me he could give a better answer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Hagen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Reversion)

Hagen

I do not know if I can give a better answer, Mr. Minister, but I can give a different perspective on it. The fact is that they have a lease that has been agreed to, the securities held have been agreed to, and, until that lease is up for renewal, we could not go back and increase it. I think it is well known that securities are based on risk, you run a risk model, and they are not operating. As a matter of fact, right now, they are shut down, so the risk is very low, and the securities that we hold on that lease right now are plenty sufficient. Like I mentioned before, if they clear all the hurdles and they eventually go for production, before they can do that they have to renew those leases and get added leases, and at that time we would increase the security to make sure that the Government of the Northwest Territories is well protected for any environmental problems or, heaven forbid, a disaster. Thank you, Mr. Chair.