Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you. I appreciate the departmental initiative, and that's why I'm bringing it up here, so all the Ministers can hear the importance of this issue. Does the Minister have a timeline when we can expect some progress, whether it be the cost or the beginning negotiations or anything like that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, like I said, the first thing we have to do is figure out the pension cost of bringing the Hay River into the public service. I agree with the Member. This is something that's incredibly important. It's something that needs to be done. We're hoping to have that analysis done in time for the next round of budget discussions at the FMB level, and so before the next business planning I'll work with the Member. I'll keep the Member informed. I know that he's very interested in this area and, as soon as I know something, he'll know something. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I see that human resources has a $6 million budget in here and so in the meantime, before Hay River is brought into the territorial authority, the responsibility of human resources includes forecasting human resource needs, design, delivery, and evaluation of programs to support recruitment retention specifically related to health and social service professionals. These are all very important things and it doesn't seem like Hay River is getting access to the $6 million or what's coming of it that we're approving in this budget. That's one of the issues is that we don't seem to have access to everything the rest of the territory does.

I know that, when recruiting is done, Hay River Health and Social Service Authority, they send their own crew down to go and recruit. It's much more difficult to recruit when you are the Hay River Health Authority as opposed to when you are the territorial health authority. That would be my impression, anyway. It's difficult to get people to Hay River because of this outstanding issue with Hay River being out of the public service. I know people tell me all the time in Hay River and Yellowknife, either I have friends in Yellowknife who work in the health and social services authority who would love to move to Hay River, but they can't do it because of these issues.

I'd just like to bring attention to this, because it's not just the Health Minister who needs to know this. All of Cabinet needs to know this, because it's a big expenditure. I just want to impart on them the importance of moving forward with this. Nothing further. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the Member's point, with respect to the human resource unit, he is both right and wrong in his view. He's right, not all the services being offered by that unit are available to Hay River because of the fact that they're outside the public service, but they are gaining some benefits. We're looking at right now doing a transition from the human resource unit that's in the department, recognizing that it's really a front-line provider that is providing support to the authority. We're transitioning them into the authority. Once they become part of the authority, they'll certainly benefit all front-line providers, including Hay River, as far as some of the work they do.

Hay River already benefits by the work that division has done in the area of physician recruitment, because physician recruitment is already done on a territorial level. There have been benefits, but the Member is correct. They haven't been able to get full benefit of that unit because Hay River is outside the public service.

I've heard exactly the same things as Members here. I know many health providers in this territory. I know many health providers in Yellowknife. I've had health providers who currently live in Yellowknife who maybe once upon a time, not maybe, who once upon a time lived in Hay River, so they'd love to go back to Hay River, but they're not prepared to go back there as long as it's a different pension and they're outside the public service.

I'm with you. We have a mandate item that says we need to get this done. I'm trying to get it done. It's going to be a significant amount of work. We are going to make some tough decisions, because it will likely come with a significant cost. We need to continue to work on this. I'm working to find a way to make this happen. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Anything further, Mr. Simpson?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope that Yellowknifers' desire to flee to Hay River isn't holding up this process of bringing up the Hay River Authority into the territorial authority. That would be a shame. Nothing further. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Any further questions? Mr. Thompson, then Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd just like to follow up on Mr. Simpson's questions. How much will it cost to bring in the Hay River Authority into our system? Can you please tell us that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, anything I say at this point will likely prove to not be true, so I'm not going to go out on a limb and say what it will. I can tell you what the ranges have been. In 2015, there was a significant amount of work done on this. At that time, I think it was around $500 million to bring it into the public service. At that time, the government of the day chose not to. Since we have begun moving to a single authority early, mid-way through the last Assembly, we did some initial work. It looked like it could be around $20 million.

I couldn't tell you what that number is today. There have been a lot of new employees and employees who have left. There have been employees who have retired. All of these things affect that bottom line. We've committed to go out and do that research again so we can get a solid number to take to the Members and to the FMBS to have that discussion. I think it's safe to say it's not going to be five. It'll probably be closer to 20. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister for that. I guess my big concern is we start at five. We're around 20 now. If we continue to do it, it's just going to keep on going and going and going. I understand the department needs to do research on it, but at some point, I mean we just got to bite the bullet and do it.

I really think that this needs to be done sooner than later. I honestly believe that needs to be done during this 18th Assembly because, again, if we wait until the 19th Assembly, then we're going to see more increased costs. I guess my concern or my hope is that this will be done by the end of this 18th Assembly. Can the Minister advise if this potentially could be done by the 18th Assembly, please?

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is exactly what we're doing. We're doing the work so we can have a finite or concrete number that we can bring to the Assembly to have a discussion on to see if there's a desire of this Assembly to move on this initiative. We can't really have that discussion until we get the price. We will have that information during the life of this government so that we can have that informative discussion.

I will also note that, I mean, currently we're topping up the Hay River pension by about $1 million a year. We've been doing that for a very long time. I understand there's work being done to try and improve that, so that there aren't as many asks, but historically we've been coming to the table for about $1 million a year. We've certainly been doing that since 2005.

I take all your points. I agree with you. We're committed to getting it done. It's in the mandate and it's our plan to have information so we can have an informed decision in the life of this government. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I swear the Minister is in my head and was getting prepared for my other questions. Basically, since 2005 to 2017, we've put in about $12 million into this fund presently. This is on top of what we actually have to do to bring this authority into the government. Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not sure I understand the question. We need to determine the amount of money we're going to need to bring the authority, which means working with their pension, but also working with the union is the number of things that have to happen. It's not just pension costs. There are going to be some other costs. We need to know what those are before we can have an informed discussion in this room or in this Assembly.

On top of that, historically we've been spending about $1 million a year. Until such a time as it is properly resolved, I anticipate that those costs will continue. We believe there will be less in the future. There has been some work done in Hay River around their pension, but until we see those numbers drop, I think it's safe to say they will continue, but hopefully at a lesser amount. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister for that answer. It was confusing. He cleared it up very perfectly, so I thank him very much. Those will be my questions for this section. Thank you, Mr. Chair.