Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, committee would like to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates, 2019-2020, considering the Department of Infrastructure and the Department of ITI, time permitting. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will consider the document after a brief recess. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider the Department of Infrastructure in the Main Estimates, which begins on page 227 of the document. I will turn to the Minister of Infrastructure for opening comments. Minister Schumann.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the 2019-2020 Main Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure. The proposed estimates of $264 million reflect an increase of $25.1 million, or 10.5 percent, over the 2018-2019 Main Estimates.

These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 18^th Legislative Assembly. Highlights include forced-growth adjustments for utility and maintenance costs of new facilities, increased maintenance and dust control for the Dempster Highway, and increased funding to upgrade and maintain the ferries on the Mackenzie, Liard, and Peel Rivers. These estimates also include lease costs of $600,000 transferred to Infrastructure from other departments.

Also identified in these estimates is the creation of the new Strategic Infrastructure Division. This new division will contribute to achieving the Northwest Territories' mandate commitment of securing funding for large transformative infrastructure projects. This new division will lead coordination and planning for new federal infrastructure funding while working closely with other Government of the Northwest Territories departments and stakeholders during the process.

In the coming year, this division will focus on advancing the Mackenzie Valley Highway projects through the shared investment of $140 million under the National Trade Corridors Fund. These projects will include construction of the Great Bear River Bridge and the Wrigley to Mount Gaudet Access Road. Focus will also be directed towards seeking opportunities for funding and planning next steps to advance the development of the Slave Geological Province Corridor. Finally, the Strategic Infrastructure Division will continue work to advance the Government of the Northwest Territories' priority to improve public infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. This will be done through an integrated bilateral agreement signed with Infrastructure Canada worth $761 million over 10 years.

The department's Energy Division will also be fully engaged with our federal partners and other stakeholders to secure funding to advance the Taltson Hydroelectricity Expansion. This division will focus on overseeing $7.8 million in new funding under the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund and managing $44.3 million in energy projects for 2019-2020 under the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Plan.

The 2019-2020 estimates continue to support Infrastructure's mandate commitments related to energy efficiency and sustainability. Specific initiatives include increasing the use of renewable and alternative energy in off-grid communities, continued engagement with the federal government to access funding for major renewable energy initiatives, and implementing the 2030 Energy Strategy to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

This includes providing continued financial support to the Arctic Energy Alliance and introducing larger-scale grants for communities, commercial buildings, and industry that target reduced greenhouse gas emissions. Towards this, Infrastructure will provide $2.74 million in core funding to the Arctic Energy Alliance, as well as an additional $550,000 for community energy grants and $1.95 million for Northwest Territories-wide energy programs supplemented through the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund, bringing the total Arctic Energy Alliance contributions to $5.24 million.

The 2019-2020 estimates also include continued investment in the Deferred Maintenance Program by upgrading and preserving government assets, such as offices, schools, and health centres. The Deferred Maintenance Program helps the Government of the Northwest Territories to better target its capital dollars in support of its priorities by maintaining and extending the useful life of our existing asset base.

That concludes my opening remarks. I would be happy to answer any questions from Members. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. It is my understanding that you have witnesses that you wish to bring into the Chamber, so I will ask you to take a seat at the witness table. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the House. Minister, please introduce your witnesses for the record.

On my right, I have Deputy Minister of Infrastructure Paul Guy, and Assistant Deputy Minister Regional Operations of Infrastructure Jayleen Robertson, and on my left, I have Vince McCormick, director of Corporate Services of Infrastructure.

Thank you, Minister. Committee, the department begins on page 228 and continues onto page 261. It contains four activities, with two information items at the end of the section. This is quite a large department, and I usually allow one set of comments and questions per activity, but I think we are going to have to go with at least two allowable comments per Member per activity. We will defer the departmental total until after consideration of the activity detail. The first activity is asset management on pages 234 to 237. Does committee have any comments on asset management? The $75 million item. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I would like to start by asking the Minister if they can give us a bit of detail with regard to the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund. I have been a supporter of this fund, and I think that the work that is undertaken with regard to this fund is significant for this territory. It checks off a lot of boxes as it relates to goals and objectives of the Assembly and, of course, as it relates to the government and the department in managing assets. Most importantly, it is also a fund that can assist us greatly in achieving our energy goals, as well as mitigating impacts on climate change. I would like to ask: how much are we putting into the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund? Are we actually getting it out the door and improving our assets with it? More importantly, I guess, is: what kind of return on investment are we seeing with regard to this fund? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In our proposed work plan for this in the Budget 2019-2020 fiscal year is $3.8 million. Savings that result from these projects are estimated at an average of $209,700 annually, which corresponds to the estimated reduction of 824 tonnes of GHG emissions. I will turn it over to the deputy for further comment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Guy.

Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I am glad I asked about this because these are promising returns on investment. Clearly, these are well-spent dollars that are bringing a number of benefits to the territory, so I appreciate that we keep this fund well maintained. Recently, there has been some correspondence with regard to municipalities wanting to have this government consider potential development of NWT building standards. This is not the first time that it has come up. It has come up in the past where our government has been questioned about why do not we take responsibility for developing building standards. I am wondering, while this is not the Department of MACA, which is tied to communities, this is the Department of Infrastructure, which is very strongly tied to codes and standards, and so I would like to get some opinion or some thoughts from the Minister with regards to how they see the GNWT's role in developing and/or maintaining building standards. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Guy.

Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I appreciate the insight. I guess I would ask another question and phrase it: given their experience with regard to infrastructure, in particular the technical side and the project management side, does the department feel that there is a need to develop an NWT-specific building standard, given our geography and our cold climates? Or do the current standards which are applied nationally seem to be the standard that would suffice, maybe because we do take part in helping develop them and improve them, at least what we have to offer gets considered in the amendments or changes to those standards? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Guy.

Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I appreciate the deputy minister's detailed response. With that, I have no further questions in this particular division. Thank you.

Thank you. Anything further from committee? Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. In the Minister's opening remarks, I was kind of dazzled with all the millions of dollars that he was talking about. I am wondering how many millions of dollars are going towards the Slave Geological Province road in 2019-2020? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As far as I know, we don't have any more than some staff time going towards this, and some small planning that we are doing, some announcements that we expect to be coming later in the year around this project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister tell us whether there is any money in 2019-2020? I understand this is the O and M budget for the planning that needs to know done for the Frank Channel bridge. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister. Sorry. Who am I directing this to? Mr. Guy.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I would like a commitment out of the Minister. If he could just sort of identify how much in terms of the O and M budget is being devoted to these two projects, the Frank Channel bridge and the Slave Geological Province road, I would find that information helpful. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we can do that and provide the Member with that detailed information. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister for that commitment. I am just wondering, I understood that there had been money in previous budgets for the Frank Channel bridge. I am just trying to understand why we are still planning for it and we are not actually doing the work. Can the Minister's officials explain what's happening? Why we continue to spend money on planning rather than doing the work? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As you know, there was an allocation towards the Frank Channel bridge originally through the old program, the federal program. When we went out and did consultation with the community of Behchoko and industry, it was clearly relied to us at that point that there was a need to have a look at the realignment and a possibility of a new bridge at that point with discussion with these people, one without a top on it because it's a chokehold for industry going north from there. It is the only choke point in the Northwest Territories for industry. With that, we have decided to go back and reallocate those funds and have another look at replacing the Frank Channel bridge. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister for that. Well, not only is it a problem maybe for the supplies that are going to the diamond mines, but it is a public safety hazard. I have driven across that bridge. It is unsafe. There are not even stop lights at either end. It is an accident waiting to happen. Can the Minister tell me what kind of priority that project has within his department? Is it being given the same level of effort and so on as the Slave Geological Province Road? How much of a priority is this Frank Channel bridge with the department? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I said in my comments there about the consultation with industry and looking at replacing it, we made the decision to have a look at that. We have spent some money on the Frank Channel bridge to try to get a little more life out of it while we look at trying to access funding from the federal government to replace this thing. It is roughly $60, $70 million, if I remember correctly the number for it. We presently have an application out of the National Trade Corridors Fund, which we would have shared with committee on our application around with that and the Slave Geological Province. We are waiting to hear back from the federal government. Hopefully, that will be before the federal election takes place. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is helpful from the Minister. If the Minister had to put a priority on the planning work that needs to be done on the Frank Channel bridge versus planning work that needs to be done for the Slave Geological Province road, which one is the highest priority? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I have clearly stated, we have put in both of our applications for both these projects with the federal government. Both of these projects are of high priority for our department. Safety is number one. As I have said, we spent money on this Frank Channel bridge right now to get some life out of this thing, but the Slave Geological Province is also a clear mandate to the Government of the Northwest Territories, and one that I have been committed to trying to secure funding for. Based on our applications, the Slave Geological Province is my preferred priority over the Frank Channel bridge. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister putting that on the record that is his priority and for the department, his work on the Slave Geological Province road over the Frank Channel bridge. I am glad that he put it on the record, because I don't think that should be the priority. The Minister even said public safety should be number one, so I really don't understand why the Minister is putting the Slave Geological Province Road as a priority over the Frank Channel bridge. That is what he said. You can check Hansard if we want, but I disagree with that priority and I don't think that is in the public interest. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Would the Minister care to retort?

Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let's make it quite clear on the record. That is why we are sitting here today, discussing these things. This was based on an application for the National Trade Corridors Fund, the amount of $400 million that was carved out for the three northern territories. Based on that application, that is where my priority would be. It would be under the Slave Geological Province. It doesn't mean that the bridge is not a priority. This fund is just for the three northern territories with a carve-out, as I have said. There are only a certain amount of dollars left in there. The federal government has changed the rules around our application process and changed the cap on it, which we have done our two applications for this. If we are not successful to get the money for the Frank Channel bridge through that process, we will certainly be chasing other avenues through the federal government to replace this bridge. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Anything further from Mr. O'Reilly?

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I am confused probably at the best of times, but now I am really confused with regard to what the priorities of the department and the Minister are. It seems like when it comes to applying for federal money, the Slave Geological Province road planning work is a priority over Frank Channel. Can the Minister tell us, with his own money, with the department's own money, what is the priority? Is it replacing the Frank Channel bridge or is it doing the planning work for Slave Geological Province Road? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If we are going to sit here and play on words, let's make it quite clear. I have been mandated to access funding for the Slave Geological Province road. That is a part of my mandate commitment. It is in the mandate agreed by all Members in this House. We are out there clearly trying to get funding for the Slave Geological Province, and Frank Channel bridge is clearly part of the application for the Slave Geological Province. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Final brief word, Mr. O'Reilly?

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The Minister well knows my views on this, that the mandate is so broad you could drive trucks through it. Here is a clear example of the Minister driving some trucks through the mandate. Look, if the priority is public safety, and I believe it should be, the Minister and his department should be working at replacing the Frank Channel bridge. The Slave Geological Province road should wait. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Any further comments from the committee on the $75-million activity? Nothing further from the committee. I will call this activity. Infrastructure, asset management, operations expenditure summary, activity total, $75,890,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. Please turn to the next activity found on page 238 to 241, corporate management. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, over the review of both our capital budget and our business plans that set up for the main estimates, we have shared concerns a number of times with regard to carryovers of projects. The committee has been concerned over the amount of carryovers. In one particular year, I think last year, about almost half of the capital projects, the amount of the capital projects, ended up being carried over. The committee has made the recommendation that the department develops a better tracking system to lower the carryover amounts and to ensure that the money gets spent when it is supposed to. We know that this has a fairly impactful or has a large impact, especially on small communities as it relates to employment opportunities, so it is critical that we find ways to make sure that we are getting these funds out the door year after year.

I just want to ask the Minister: is the department developing any kind of mechanism to track carryovers and then, let's say, even substantiate them a little bit better in the budget process so that Members can have a better understanding and grasp on the impacts that carryovers have on the territory, I guess. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Guy.

Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the deputy minister for that detailed response. We noted during business plan reviews that there were a number of reasons for carry-overs. It seems as though the department has taken a lot of progressive and proactive steps in trying to overcome some of those challenges. There still are some challenges with regard to outside capacity outside of government, you know, in the form of contractors, et cetera. I am just wondering: although this, to some degree or a greater degree, is outside the department's abilities, have they been given any insight or do they have anything to offer as it relates to how we can work with communities and contractors to build capacity to help deliver on-the-ground projects for the territory? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, that is an ongoing challenge right across the board. Let's take example we are trying to move forward with the Bear River Bridge. The Hamlet of Tulita, which is right there at the doorstep, we are working closely with everyone in that community. They have formed a Bear River Working Group Committee amongst all the user groups within the municipality, be it Indigenous groups or the municipal government, to try to be able to figure out a way to capitalize on this. Our department and our ADM is working closely with them.

One of the other things I think that we looked at and it came up in the House a couple times is around some of these projects and have a serious look at some of the ones that we can break out to utilize a little bit more local capacity instead of having these projects that are too large for some of these, you know, smaller to mid-sized companies that can't capitalize on it. We are continuing to engage with the people across the Northwest Territories and the contractors and through the NWT Construction Association and such and the Chamber of Commerce to try to address some of these things. We will continue to work on that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the Minister for the reply. I appreciate that there is some effort being built around this. We have seen in other areas and from other departments, too, we have seen the success of certain training programs that have worked well, as well. You know, given that we are fairly good at knowing what projects that we are going to deliver over the next handful of years through our capital asset management plan, et cetera, and just knowing all of these big applications that we have to the federal government for shared funding, are there ways in which, knowing that we have all of these projects that we need certain skill sets built, we can start to use Aurora College or ECE and others to start developing training programs to build up skill capacity in these areas? Are there discussions that the department is having internally and externally to make this possible? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. You know, I believe education has worked on their document. Skills 4 Success is going to identify a number of these jobs. I think it was 36,000 or 38,000 jobs in the next number of years coming forward. We know that the population of the Northwest Territories is aging. We have already stepped up to the plate, I think, on some of these things as you take the ITH or the Canyon Creek-type projects where we have worked with the proponent who implemented their training programs.

We have given a lot of updates to committee on the number of people who have been trained on these projects. I think it is a number as high as 400-and-some individuals who worked on the ITH projects, with a great focus on trying to get more women into the workforce and these untraditional types of occupations. We are working closely with industry on these things around the training side of things.

You know, I think, hopefully, going forward, you see, even on the Tlicho Road going to Whati, you are going to see some of this stuff taking place, as well. We have really, you know, looked back on the history of these other two projects and how we can implement these things into other projects going forward because there will be some larger projects coming forward, as the Member stated. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Yes. I appreciate that. I think that one of the things and one of the areas that we will really have to focus on, although it is not directly in this department but it certainly ties in to what the Minister has just indicated, is that we need to build strong capacity, especially as it relates to trades. The opportunity to promote and attract individuals to enter into the apprenticeship programs would be something that we should be promoting strongly and working interdepartmentally to achieve. I just wanted to note that for the record. I have no further questions in this activity. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Next, we have Mr. McNeely.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know in the past year, during our capital session here, we had talked about carry-overs, carry-overs. From past experience there, it has always been the wishes of the private sector to have multi- or carry-over contracts. Now, in this position, I see how we can share the wishes of the private sector and accommodate the carry-over budget to allow the project to go through. Now, it is a matter of the department to design and even give some thought to sectional approaches to the project.

Given that experience recently, I have shared that with the leadership in Tulita, for example, to say to them to look at piecemealing the construction of the Bear River Bridge. This way, it is maximizing on employment training as well as commerce opportunities as well as seeing the project going through and providing multiple years of benefits to the remote community in this case. I am quite satisfied with the discussions we have had in the past and the whole idea that it is not being ruled out on carry-overs.

Carry-overs are actually a good thing. In some parts of our Territory, that is all you are allowed to do is seasonal access, which means carrying over to the next season. In our case, in the Sahtu, in some cases, in some projects there, you are only accessible for the winter months, and the spring thaw comes in. Normally, you know, it revolves around the winter oats season, which usually starts deteriorating to the latter part of March. Avenues to prolong that are looked at, nighttime travel. Those are all factors that I have come to learn in this line of work here that supports the project, as well as employment, as well as prolonging benefits. I share that with the colleagues here today. Thank you

Thank you. Does the Minister care to respond?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In my previous comments about the other ones to the other Member, as well, when you start talking about Canyon Creek as a good example of doing a small section instead of doing the entirety of the road, it will capitalize on local employment, local businesses, and training opportunities. We will continue to look at that. When you look at our plan going forward, around the Mackenzie Valley Highway, the Mount Gaudet section is clearly going to be another one of those sections that the people in the Deh Cho are going to be able to capitalize on as an opportunity, very similar to what happened in the Sahtu.

We continue to work with the community of Tulita, as I said, with the Bear River Bridge to look at whether there are any possibilities of breaking out some stuff out of that project, where some local people can capitalize on the opportunity that is there. We will continue to look at those things.

Contractors, obviously, have a role to play in carryovers, as well. They are challenged, as well, around capacity issues and staffing, and that is why we have the Department of Education working on what they do around skills training and the Skills 4 Success document moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Further, Mr. McNeely? Nothing further from Mr. McNeely. Next, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in our review of the business plan in this section, we have identified the Infrastructure staff. It appears as though a lot of the Infrastructure staff are getting close to retirement.

I was wondering if I could ask the Minister what the plan is to try to retain the corporate knowledge as they move forward, if there is a large amount of senior people retiring in the next five years. What is the plan? What is the human resource plan to retain corporate knowledge in this department? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for that response. On page 240, Mr. Chair, I want to just ask some questions around the local community roads. Community access roads, generally, I think, are used for all seasons, to maybe create an all-season road to various traditional areas that individuals would wish to access. I have a question for the Minister: could this money be used for winter roads? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, this money can be used for winter roads, as long as it is outside of their community. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just in relation to the same area, I want to ask the Minister if they have a capital budget access road, which is a larger amount and may have a different objective. I know that this is not the capital. I clearly understand that. I am wondering if there is a capital program, however.

Mr. Chairman, an example that I will go to is that, when they were building the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk Highway, they first built a 17-kilometre access road along the right-of-way. I am wondering, Mr. Chairman, where that type of money sits. Where does that access money sit, in which area? Is it here, or is it somewhere else? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That would be a capital plan, so that would have to be a capital appropriation project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you. I think the Minister said capital appropriation. I said that I understood that, but there something in the capital called access road. I am wondering if there is a set amount in that budget all of the time that is similar to this, but maybe has a different objective. I am wondering if there is money there that should essentially have no impact on this budget. I am not sure I am making myself very clear. Maybe the Minister can help me with this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is no specific amount for capital for access roads. Those are set on priorities that the government sees as we move towards our transportation plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Time has expired. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you. Just to follow up on Mr. Beaulieu's comments here, the local community roads on page 240, there is $1.48 million appropriated for it. Should that be in the capital budget? What is this doing here if that is a capital item? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Guy.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you. I am aware of that. I just wanted to clear it up in Hansard for anyone who is looking at the budget document and trying to follow that conversation. My questions are about, I guess, corporate management. There was talk in the questions from the Member for Yellowknife North about training opportunities and what the department is doing in terms of addressing this deficit, I guess, of skilled workers, such as a journeyman, that we have. I know there was talk about the Minister said we are looking at breaking up contracts, so that smaller organizations can perhaps get in on them. Talking about training locals when there are projects, but there doesn't seem to be anything concrete here. I know that Education has Skills 4 Success, and it is hard to really tell from those documents what exactly is happening on the ground. From the Minister's answers, it sounds like things are sort of happening ad hoc, but there doesn't seem to be a real training plan.

One of the things that is really holding the territory back is the lack of journeymen. It is the lack of skilled labourers. You know, we can build a road to the mines and we can open up new mines. The same people who aren't working today won't be working at that new mine, and that is really the problem. That is where the resources go. It is the people who, you know, need to live in housing or earn income assistance because they don't have those skills to take those jobs. I will always remember the Premier said in one of his first speeches: there are more than enough jobs in the Northwest Territories for everyone. The problem is that the people from the territories often aren't filling those.

I have to disagree a bit with my colleague from Yellowknife North, who said that this is a bit outside the department, training. I think the department should be very heavily involved with training. I think that we need to start breaking down some of these walls between education, between housing, between infrastructure, and come up with an actual plan to move this territory ahead in terms of training. Otherwise, we are just going to be spinning our wheels for years to come.

What does the department have in terms of a comprehensive, written plan that they can show the committee, so that they can prove that they are taking this seriously? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will start, and maybe the deputy will want to add something. You know, as I clearly said, we are working with industry players on all these things, especially these larger projects moving forward. ECE is the trainer of the Northwest Territories. That is their position. That is where those questions should go, but with saying that, we work very closely. We are not spinning our wheels. We work very closely with the Minister and her department on how we can implement training opportunities and all these projects.

It is at front of mind with all the communities when these projects come to their regions. It is no different than the Tuktoyaktuk to Inuvik Highway or the Canyon Creek project. Even, as I said, to lead a project with the Bear River Bridge, Mount Gaudet has already approached us even right, like, within a matter of a couple of days of the announcement of that money. So we are working closely with them to help figure out a way they can capitalize at a local level on these opportunities.

A big role of that is how ECE is involved in these projects with us. We work closely with them. I don't know if there has to be a comprehensive plan altogether, as the Member says. ECE is mandated to implement training across the Northwest Territories, but we do recognize the fact that there are benefits that can be brought to these communities and the residents of the Northwest Territories through our projects. It is not something that we sleight of hand. It is something that we take very seriously and work closely with the Minister in her department. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you. I guess my issue is that, if there is not a plan, all we have is what we hear. I can't really quantify the things that have been said. There are no goals that we are trying to reach. They are all one-offs. You know, I was at the mining symposium in Hay River a couple of months ago and KFN, the former chief of KFN was there, and he said that, for the Hay River Bridge, which is being reconstructed on KFN traditional territory, there were no training opportunities available for their members. Perhaps sometimes there are, but sometimes there aren't, and that is part of the problem.

Again, this is one of those things that I have been bringing up at every business plan and every budget debate since I have been here. I think that it is something that the department really needs to start looking into, otherwise we are going to be stuck in the same place forever. The cost of our social services is going up. Our revenues are down. You know, we are facing some real economic troubles ahead. Unless we take this seriously, the future isn't looking very bright. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Schumann, did you want to comment on that?

I don't want to get into a big debate about it, but I think the Member should save his questions for the Department of Education when they get to it. I know that, as I have said, we work closely with them. There is cross-departmental stuff around these things. We have our own apprenticeship program within our department. We have our settlement maintainer positions. There are a number of things that we do around training, but I think his specific question is around: what are we doing about training people around some of these larger projects? As I have said, we work closely with the Department of ECE on this matter. I think there have been some great success stories out there, and we will continue to do so and work with the Minister and her department. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Going back to the local community roads. Further to that, I just got a little side tracked on the capital aspect of it. I have now seen the budget shown to me by one of our honourable colleagues here, so I am okay with the responses. The question on the winter road: I'm asking if this money can be used for a winter road. Could it be used, like, for example, today I spoke of a possible winter road from here to Lutselk'e. Could this type of money be used for a road that links a community to, say, Yellowknife? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we would entertain that application around that basis. One thing I want to point out: that is a very limited amount that we have in the community access program, $1.508 million. I can tell you that goes awfully quickly. It is an application-based, first come, first served, but the Member is correct that that money could be accessed in that manner if a community wishes to apply for it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is good news, but I do agree with the Minister that this would probably consume the entire budget with one project. I know that this is what is the mains and our opportunity to discuss the increase in this budget, would it be in that business planning time? I realize that. Still, going along the lines that my request to have a winter road constructed would be a part of capital, so I didn't make the link that it could be a part of O and M. I am wondering if the Minister sees, if that $1.48 million was fully subscribed, if the Minister would be able to, working with the FMB, increase that budget for the coming year? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.