Thank you, Mr. Chair. Recently the CBC came out with an article with two researchers, one from the University of Montana and one from the University of Saskatchewan, talking about culling wolf populations to help caribou, and they were saying it doesn't work. I understand that the Minister spoke to this on the floor here with Mr. Vanthuyne, but can the Minister advise: have we come up with a solution? Have our researchers and our staff worked with local Aboriginal groups to come up with a plan? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Exactly, Mr. Chair. As we travelled through the Tlicho, listening to elders talk and listening to an 87-year-old elder in the Tlicho saying that he has hunted caribou his whole life, and he always believed that the wolves are a major predator. He told us that they take between 30 to 35 caribou apiece. I mean, I recognize that the Member was referencing a couple of comments that were made by one outside Canada, in Montana, and one in Saskatchewan. I am not sure what their connection to the Northwest Territories is, or if they know where it is on the map, but I would take the word of our elders over any person who doesn't make this their home. We rely on the words of the folks who have lived in that area their whole life.

We have worked with them in coming up with a plan, and we also work with our co-management partners. We have a very close working relationship with the Tlicho government right now, and again, to their credit, they recognize the importance of the preservation of the caribou herd for their future generations.

I am going to go back to a comment that I heard when we were visiting Whati. There was a gentleman there who is 87 years old, and he said, "I have hunted caribou my whole life. I have had the opportunity to hunt caribou and live off caribou. What can I do to help, to make sure that my children and my grandchildren enjoy the same privilege that I had?" Of all the words I have heard on the caribou in all the conversations I have had, I thought those were the wisest words I have ever heard as far as the caribou go. It is that type of advice that we take to heart. If they say wolves are a problem, I believe them. If they say wolves are going to make a difference in saving some of the caribou, I believe them, and I think we should.

My understanding is: in our zone, I think we have taken about 20 wolves so far. If you listen to the elders, they say they can take between 30 and 35 animals. Twenty wolves at 30 animals, that is 600 caribou we may have saved. It is one of the steps that we are going to take and try to preserve the caribou herd. It all goes back to this traditional knowledge and listening to those who have the most expertise. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have gone on a little too long. I apologize for that.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not worried. I greatly appreciate the Minister providing this information because, again, when we have news coming out and saying things and we have these researchers, that is why I was asking the question. Is our staff working with the Aboriginal population, using traditional knowledge? At the end of the day, that is where we do things. I just wanted to make sure that we were following that practice. I greatly appreciate that. Again, elders are very wise. The reason why they are there is they have lived a long time and they know a lot of stuff. I know, in my riding, the team from ENR does work with the Aboriginal groups really well. That is part of their knowledge base. I would just like to thank the Minister for his answer. No further questions at this point in time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Another round for Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I understand I am only supposed to have one. Sometimes the questions and answers go on for a bit. I want to talk about the wolf incentive program. I appreciate what the Minster said in the House earlier about outside experts. There was a working group established, including experts from his own department, the Tlicho Government, and other Indigenous governments. They ranked and rated 12 different options for dealing with wolves. The top option was aerial shooting on the cabin grounds. The next one was summer harvest assistance. The next one was diversionary feeding. You have to go more than halfway down the list to find winter harvesting.

This study, published by the Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board, shows that the wolf incentive program is not the most effective way to take out wolves. For this to actually work and have an impact on the caribou populations, you have to take out between 60 and 80 percent of the wolf population. I don't think this is going to work, the wolf incentive program. That is what I am fearing. That is what the experts said on the radio, as well. Given this study, why is the department pursuing this incentive program, increasing the wolf bounty? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Dr. Dragon.

Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I thank the deputy minister for that information. In the additional joint management proposal that is being prepared for the Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board, what will it contain in terms of predator control? I just want it highlights, please. I don't need all the details because I still have a couple of other questions if I can get to them. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Briefly, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We haven't finalized it yet. We are working with our Tlicho partners to come up with a plan going forward. As the Member said, this program here has been beneficial to help them to take some of the wolf population out as well as assisting in helping our contractors. We could do it by air, but who will benefit from that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, there will.

Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Well, that is some good news. I look forward to getting further details on that. I do want to pass along some of the concerns that I have heard about the wolf bounty or wolf incentive program. People are worried about caribou being used as bait, potentially. There was a media report from earlier this week about meat wastage on the winter road. People are worried about collateral damage to other species as people go out there, particularly over harvesting of wolverines.

My colleague from Yellowknife North also mentioned hunter safety issues. Some of the people who may be going out may not be as experienced as they could or should be, or maybe not as well prepared as they could be. There was at least one incident last year where someone got lost on the winter road. What steps are the department taking to try to deal with these concerns and issues? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, let's give some credit to the folks who go out there. These are people who are experienced hunters, and wolves are what they are after. If they try to use caribou as bait, they could get charged for that. We will come down hard on that. I have heard of stories, not here, where caribou was used as bait. Credit to the local hunters' and trappers' associations, they got after those. To me, that is just ignorant, and it shouldn't be done. Let's give them some credit. I don't think they will be doing that.

As far as collateral damage, it is wolves they are after. I don't think they will be just shooting everything that comes their way. They may take the odd wolverine because there is some incentive just on the fur itself. I don't think it's going to be the Wild West up there, and I do trust the judgment of a lot of folks who go up there. We monitor it. We have 24-hour monitoring. We have a couple of check stops that are there. I've heard from a couple of people saying that they were going in there, and they were actually getting their vehicles checked on the way in to make sure they weren't bringing dump wolves in there, because those aren't the ones that we want. We're doing a lot of work on this, and I'm giving credit to the experience of those that are out there. If those that have no experience go out there, I think they're going to find out awfully quickly they're in over their head.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the response from the Minister. I don't necessarily agree with these concerns. I'm just passing them on from what I heard, and I meant no disrespect to any harvesters who might go out there. If folks are not experienced and not well-prepared, things can go badly sometimes. I don't think anybody wants that to happen, but these are concerns that I'm hearing, and I'm passing them onto the Minister.

I don't have any other questions about this, other than to say that I am very, very concerned that there is no money in the budget for the caribou crisis. We should have anticipated this, and there should have been some money in here for that, and I'm very disturbed that it's not. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Would the Minister care to respond?