This is page numbers 5203 - 5254 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going. View the webstream of the day's session.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. We can get a table, but I will very quickly just sort of remind the Members of some of the things that we are going to be using that money for. First, obviously, is the cost-of-living offset benefit, which will be delivered to residents to help offset the impacts of the carbon pricing. There is the heating fuel rebate so that both residents and small businesses and others will not have to pay carbon tax on heating fuel. Then there are the rebates related to the large emitters, as well, and for electrical generation, but we will provide a table that provides the detailed breakdown of the $11.9 million. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. Those are the items that I read off, as well. The department doesn't have the numbers in front of them of where this is going? Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, absolutely, I can read the numbers. In 2019-2020, the heating fuel rebate is estimated to be $2.4 million. The large emitter rebate will be $3.8 million. The industry trust will be $1.3 million. The rebate for electrical generation is $1 million. The cost-of-living offset benefit is $3.4 million. There will be $0.6 million or $600,000 for administration, and that leaves a total off the total revenues of around $3.5 million that will be going towards the contribution towards the Inuvik wind project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 6th, 2019

Page 5225

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Mr. Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. In terms of the cost-of-living offset, how is that breaking down? How much is going to be allocated per person, and does it matter if you are a couple, if you are a child? Could I get some details on that? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5225

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Again, I will confirm these dollar values, but it is on a per-person basis. If you have more people in the household, obviously, the value will be higher. If I recall correctly, the value was $260 annually for people who are 18 and over, and $300 for children under the age of 18, dollars a tonne. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5225

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. $280 for adults and $300 for children in the household. How come there is that disparity between children and adults? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. In the initial design of the program, the assumption was that there were certain things that were going to be more heavily impacted, that would hit families more than it would hit, necessarily, people without children. The decision was made to make it slightly larger for children than it would be for adults, and therefore families would end up, on a per-person basis, with a little higher amounts. That was the original design that was done around the carbon tax cost-of-living offset. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5225

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. Were there any dissenting opinions from members of the department who don't have children on that division? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. There were certainly lots of views, not only from people in the department, but when we released the approach to the public, as to whether there should be more that goes to families, whether it should be income-tested, and a variety of other things. Yes, there were different views, depending, probably, on their own family situation, but also recognizing what we were trying to do, which is really offset the impact of the carbon pricing as opposed to any other objectives that might be out there. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5225

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. I understand that the federal backstop, as it is called, the federal carbon pricing plan, considered rebates for small businesses, as well, and I think that they are working on the details of that. Those might be grants to upgrade the efficiency of their buildings or equipment. I am not quite sure. I don't even know if that plan has been released yet. I see that there are large-emitter plans. There are plans to offset electricity generation in communities. There are plans to give money directly to people. Are there any plans to help small businesses cope with this carbon tax? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Probably the two biggest drivers for small business that will be provided offsets is 100 percent of the heating fuel carbon tax is being rebated back to the user, whether it is a resident or it is a small business, and then electricity generation, as well. We are not charging carbon tax on electricity generation using diesel fuel. There are also other programs that are being looked at under the Low Carbon Economy Fund, I believe, that will help businesses in terms of some of the things that they may want to do to help reduce their consumption. I know that that work is ongoing with the federal government, but I know that there is a component of it that is intended to help small business, as well, under that program. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. The department might want to advertise that fact, and maybe it is the Department of Infrastructure who has to, because the way that this is seen is that it is just another tax on small businesses because they are not getting a cheque in the mail the same that a family is going to. I am sure that the department is going to say, "Well, they'll just raise their prices and recoup that loss," but it is a tight market out there right now. That is not going to be received well by consumers. When businesses are struggling in this economy, the last thing that they need is another tax on them. I have no further questions on this section. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Vanthuyne.