This is page numbers 5299 - 5332 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was women. View the webstream of the day's session.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for confirming that for me. For a government that says it is open and transparent, consulting only the industry and perhaps Indigenous governments, only consulting industry, I don't think that is a great idea, and I think that is a clear definition of regulatory capture. Can the Minister make public the work requirements and rental rates for future significant discovery licences and the rationale that he used in setting them? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

The proposed amendments that we have put forward for the PRA do include a requirement for the Minister to make the text of any significant discovery licence publicly available, future STL rental rates, and how STL work will be credited. It will also be specified in the future call for bid documents. Whether or not we publicly release the rationale for the rates that we might apply is more of a policy decision at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I would like to follow up again with the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. He talked about two different ways of capturing some benefits from significant discovery licences. One is in the initial call for bids, and second, in the actual issuance of the significant discovery licence itself. In the call for bids, has a decision been made by the Minister on what the rates would be for significant discovery licences in the future? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the interim, we have laid out some rates that are detailed, and we have shared that information with committee.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that explanation. Is the Minister prepared to make that information public?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I don't see why we can't do that. We can certainly have a conversation with the Member. I will talk with the department, but I don't see why we would not make those rates public if we are going to impose them on industry.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I thank the Minister for that commitment. Can the Minister give me an idea as to when he expects to make this information public?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I will have to talk to our officials and see when we can get that out there and let the Member know.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that commitment again. Can the Minister commit also that, when he puts this information out, he is prepared to accept public comments on it? Because he has already made up his mind perhaps about this without any public input, but I would like to know whether he is prepared to accept public comment when he puts this information out. This is about having an open and transparent government and not just consulting with industry in setting these kinds of rates.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I will try to make the afternoon, seeing as it's a Friday. This is an interim measure that we have put in place because we saw there was a gap in this one post devolution. The PRA is going to be taken on the road by the Member and his committee, and there will be input from the public if they want to have input on this. Everyone in the Northwest Territories can have input on legislation that is going to be put out there, amongst consultation with all members of the Northwest Territories, industry, and Indigenous governments, and I welcome all comments back on what we want to do around SDLs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to Commissioner's opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Minister of Justice.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents entitled "Letter from President and CEO, Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association to Assistant Deputy Minister, Justice regarding Genetics and Insurance, dated March 5, 2019"; and "Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 619-18(3): National Energy Board Regulatory Authority in the Northwest Territories." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Bill 44: Forest Act
First Reading Of Bills

Page 5305

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 44, Forest Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 44: Forest Act
First Reading Of Bills

Page 5305

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion carried.

---Carried

Bill 44 has had its first reading. First reading of bills. Minister of Justice.

Bill 45: Corrections Act
First Reading Of Bills

March 8th, 2019

Page 5305

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South, that Bill 45, Corrections Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 45: Corrections Act
First Reading Of Bills

Page 5305

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion carried.

---Carried

Bill 45 has had its first reading. First reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Minister of Finance.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, that Bill 42, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act, be read for the second time.

The bill amends the Petroleum Products Tax Act to impose a carbon tax on petroleum products and natural gas. It makes the amendments necessary for collection and administration of this new tax to be handled in the same manner as the current fuel tax. Purchasers are required to pay the tax, and vendors and collectors are required to remit the tax to the Government of the Northwest Territories. The bill allows the Minister to provide in regulation for rebates and grants and increases the maximum fines and penalties which may be imposed either as administrative penalties or on summary conviction. Finally, the bill adds provisions for the appeal of an assessment of tax, interest or administrative penalties under the act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I will provide some introductory remarks and then turn to the process used to develop the bill. I will also provide some comments on the bill and concerns with what is there and what is missing.

The recent report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says we are already seeing the consequence of global warming, with an increase of 1 degree Celsius in annual mean temperature. There is more extreme weather and diminishing Arctic see ice, among other changes. The report notes that limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius would require "rapid, far-reaching, and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society." Ninety-one authors and review editors from 40 countries prepared the report, with more than 6,000 scientific references cited. This is very serious, and, if we wish to save this planet from irreversible damage, we need to act now. The good news is that some of the kinds of actions that would be needed to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius are already underway around the world, but they need to accelerate.

Canada has signed on to the global agreement to better address climate change. A real carbon pricing system for the Northwest Territories can help us in fighting this emergency. We must pursue legislative and policy changes to ensure the climate change leadership and an energy strategy built on renewables that does not masquerade as an infrastructure funding demand.

The process. The history of carbon pricing during this Assembly has been a convoluted one, at best. Cabinet developed three separate but related initiatives related to climate change. The first and obviously highest priority for Cabinet was the 2030 Energy Strategy, which leap-frogged ahead of the other two initiatives and even has a costed three-year action plan where 44 percent of the greenhouse gas reductions are supposed to come from a billion-dollar Taltson hydro expansion. The poor cousin, the Climate Change Strategic Framework, has languished, still has no action plan, and fails to respond to the Auditor General's report to establish the necessary leadership and authority for climate change success. Finally, there is a carbon pricing scheme which is the subject of this bill and is to be used to fund the GNWT contributions to the energy strategy.

In May and July of 2016, the Premier was in the media opposing a carbon tax. Thank goodness a new government was elected in the Yukon in November 2016 because that seems to have moderated GNWT messaging around carbon pricing. On December 9, 2016, the first minsters, including our Premier, announced the Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change. This would allow Canada to meet its international obligations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 30 percent from 2005 levels by 2030.

I appreciate that a lot of effort has been put in by Cabinet to work out the details of an NWT carbon pricing system. I just do not agree with their approach. GNWT put pressure on the federal government to ante up money for its favourite energy megaproject, the expansion of Taltson hydro, for export to unconfirmed southern markets and to other unconfirmed and hypothetical users in the Slave Geological Province. A discussion paper on the GNWT's approach to carbon pricing was finally released on July 26, 2017. Public comment closed on September 15, 2017.

The Standing Committee on Government Operations tried unsuccessfully several times to get the Minister of Finance to develop a number of options or scenarios for carbon pricing. He was urged to consider creating a competitive fund for large emitters to reduce emissions, larger investments into renewable energy that would further reduce the cost of living and greenhouse gas emissions, and other ideas. The Minister refused to respond in any serious way to committee's requests.

Almost a year after the release of the discussion paper, the Minister of Finance released Cabinet's final approach to carbon pricing on July 11, 2018. A summary of the public engagement on the discussion paper was released at the same time, and a federal report on the impact of carbon pricing on the Northwest Territories that had been completed five months earlier was also released to the public. No further comments were invited, and there has been no further public information or engagement since Cabinet's release on July 11, 2018. This government has been dragged to carbon pricing by the federal promise to impose a regime even if we don't create our own regime.

I would like to, Mr. Speaker, move on to the merits of the bill. I have spoken before in this House about Cabinet's approach to carbon pricing, which is what this bill will implement. Individuals and families will get some of the carbon tax back through adjustments to the cost of living allowance. The largest industrial emitters of greenhouse gas emissions will actually get all of the carbon tax back that they pay. It will be individuals, families, and small businesses that will subsidize the GNWT initiatives under the Energy Strategy, not the largest emitters, which are the diamond mines. This hardly seems fair or balanced.

A large part of the carbon tax revenues will also be used to fund GNWT's contribution to the Taltson Hydro Expansion, which I have also spoken against in this House. I have no problem and encourage the use of Taltson power to develop the regional economy on the south side of the lake, and I am glad to get the support of my friends as I speak, but to build millions of dollars' worth of transmission lines to unconfirmed markets is risky and likely to cost a lot more than original estimates. This is what happened with Muskrat Falls, Site C, Manitoba Hydro's Keeyask dam, and many other projects. Let there be no mistake, Mr. Speaker: Taltson expansion will take money from other needs and opportunities, especially small community energy self-sufficiency.

I would like to turn to some of the problem areas with the bill. There is a precise regime and schedule for the carbon tax on various fuels. There is no separation of diesel fuel use between motive and non-motive use, as was the case in the July 2017 discussion paper. Butane was also not included in that discussion paper for carbon pricing, but now has a carbon tax rate specified in the bill.

While there is some clarity on the carbon tax to be charged and collected, there is no certainty regarding rebates, which are to be prescribed in future regulations at the total discretion of the Minister. The Minister will also have total discretion to prescribe who will be defined as a large emitter, and the Minister will have unfettered authority to determine grants to be given to such large emitters. It seems to me that there should be some bounds on the Minister's discretion in these matters.

Lastly, there is no requirement for any public reporting of revenues raised through the proposed carbon tax, rebates, or grants that the Minister may hand out, or even administrative costs associated with the implementation of the carbon tax. Given the concerns that the public and Regular MLAs have raised about a carbon tax, its impact on the cost of living, and how it may or may not contribute to greenhouse gas reductions, it is rather astounding that there is so little accountability and transparency around the revenues to be raised, their use, and impacts. I have consistently raised the need for an integrated approach to monitoring and public reporting of energy self-sufficiency, climate change, greenhouse gas reductions, carbon pricing, and the impacts on the cost of living, and this bill does not address that.

I still believe that carbon pricing is an essential tool in fighting climate change. However, the Minister has clearly been dragged to this measure and has shown very little interest in working with Regular MLAs or the public in exploring different options or scenarios to develop the best approach for the Northwest Territories and our residents with regard to a carbon tax. In my view, Cabinet's approach is unfair, and with the unfettered ministerial authority over grants to large emitters and rebates, an energy strategy focused on a huge mega project, lack of progress on climate change leadership, and no commitment to integrated climate change monitoring and public reporting, I cannot support the bill as drafted.

I look forward to participating in the proceedings of the Standing Committee on Government Operations to hear what the public and interested stakeholders have to say about a carbon tax in the Northwest Territories, whether they think that this is a fair approach from Cabinet, and whether it will really lead to progress in climate change. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the principle of the bill. Member for Yellowknife North.