This is page numbers 5713 - 5790 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was women. View the webstream of the day's session.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O'Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 5713

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Good afternoon, colleagues. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Deputy Premier.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Premier will be absent from the House today until Thursday, June 6, to attend the Commemoration of the 75th Anniversary of D-Day in Juno Beach, Normandy, France. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to honour the important work carried out by the National Inquiry on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. The inquiry was established by the Government of Canada along with all provincial and territorial governments in response to public outcry about the alarming number of Indigenous women and girls who are known to be missing or murdered.

The National Inquiry was tasked with exploring and reporting on the systemic causes of all forms of violence against Indigenous women and girls. They were required to examine the underlying social, economic, cultural, institutional, and historical causes that contribute to the ongoing violence against, and the particular vulnerabilities of, Indigenous women and girls in Canada. As well, they were mandated to look into and report on existing institutional policies and practices to address violence, including those shown effective in reducing violence and increasing safety.

The National Inquiry began holding hearings across Canada in 2016. The hearings, called "Truth Gathering Processes," heard from family members, survivors, community members, experts, elders, and Knowledge Keepers. In the interim report tabled in October 2017, the National Inquiry noted that they were being urged to include Indigenous women who identified as 2SLGBTQQIA, that is, Two-Spirited, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, or asexual. The National Inquiry agreed to honour this request.

In March 2018, the National Inquiry held a public hearing in Yellowknife where family members and survivors shared their stories and experiences. The Government of the Northwest Territories was granted "party with standing" status and made presentations at separate expert hearings. The inquiry's work in the Northwest Territories was supported by the inquiry's National Family Advisory Circle, the GNWT, and the NWT Native Women's Association.

Mr. Speaker, Indigenous women and girls throughout Canada, along with their allies, have been waiting anxiously to see the final recommendations. On Monday, June 3rd, I had the honour of attending the historic event releasing the National Inquiry's final report in Gatineau, Quebec.

This was, in many ways, a solemn occasion. Identifying the root causes of the disproportionate rates of violence experienced by Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people requires us to look at hard truths. At the heart of the truth gathering process, and of the Inquiry itself, are the painful stories of families and survivors. Their stories shed light upon aspects of Canadian society that many are reluctant to accept. Doing so is a necessary step in finding our way forward.

Mr. Speaker, this occasion was also a celebration of the resilience of Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people. They have persevered in the face of violence that has clearly been happening for a long, long time. We must demonstrate our commitment to ending this violence by commemorating the lives and legacies of those that have been taken and ensure that they are not forgotten. We must also support healing, advance reconciliation, and raise public awareness. We must keep this issue at the forefront of people's minds and consistently convey another truth: that Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA individuals are valued, loved, and worthy of justice.

The release of the key findings and recommendations of the National Inquiry marks the end of their work and the beginning of ours. We have been given a catalyst for change and a path to achieve it. Together, through the combined efforts of individuals, communities, and all levels of government, we can end this violence. I look forward to reviewing the recommendations and working with my counterparts across Canada to address this issue.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude my statement by acknowledging the courage and resilience of the family members and survivors who took the time to share their experiences and their stories. I am sure that it was painful, but we are all sincerely grateful for their contributions to the healing journey before us. Masi cho, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many Northerners continue to be held back by mental health and addictions, which is why the 18th Legislative Assembly made it a priority to focus on mental wellness and addictions recovery. Today I would like to update Members on a significant milestone that we have achieved towards making sure that NWT residents who need mental wellness and addictions services can get the help they need locally and through culturally appropriate methods.

In November 2016, the Department of Health and Social Services released Mind and Spirit: Promoting Mental Health and Addictions Recovery in the Northwest Territories Strategic Framework. This strategic framework has helped set the direction and focus all of our efforts in these areas since it was released. The first big deliverable to come out from the framework was the Child and Youth Mental Wellness Action Plan, which was tabled in September 2017. Later today, Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling the final deliverable under the strategic framework, the Mental Wellness and Addictions Recovery Action Plan.

The Mental Wellness and Addictions Recovery Action Plan outlines the immediate steps to be taken to ensure that individuals and families are offered services and supports that foster hope, promote self-determination, and build partnerships that support mental wellness and addictions recovery, and respect the uniqueness of each person's journey.

To achieve this goal, we have identified four main objectives with corresponding actions that we will work to achieve over the next two years. The four objectives are:

  • Reduce stigma and increase awareness and prevention;
  • Increase supports and transform the culture of practice within the mental wellness and addictions recovery system to more fully reflect a Seamless Care Pathway Model;
  • Improve quality, coordination, and integration of services; and
  • Strengthen peer support, aftercare, and community-based options for people living with addictions.

Mr. Speaker, this is a two-year action plan containing concrete and measurable activities that, taken together, aim to make a positive difference in the lives of residents who are facing mental health and addictions challenges. Our action plan will also set the foundation for expanded services to our residents going forward.

A few examples of the types of activities that our government and partners will do to support our objectives include:

  • developing and implementing new approaches for providing NWT residents with information about mental wellness and addictions recovery services and supports;
  • enhancing access and expanding service options for clients by implementing e-mental health options for individuals and families and by introducing flexible scheduling options like walk-in and same-day appointments;
  • improving support for individuals working to overcome addiction by implementing territory-wide peer support options, including online approaches; and
  • We will listen to the voices of Northerners with lived experience by developing a Mental Wellness and Addictions Recovery Advisory Council. The feedback the advisory council will give us will be used to help implement a Seamless Care Pathway model and other initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, the actions included in our action plan were identified through research, interdepartmental collaboration, and consultation with NGOs, experts, and individuals with lived and living experience with mental wellness and addictions throughout the Northwest Territories. These are forward-thinking and responsive actions, based on the reality of what it means to be facing these challenges here in the Northwest Territories.

As a government, we have listened to our residents and their calls for better ways to support mental wellness and addictions recovery. We have worked passionately with our partners and stakeholders to create targeted plans to bring real improvements to the way that we deliver services. Together, we are better positioned to help our residents get the culturally informed, person-and-family-centered support that we know is at the heart of a healthy, strong Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government is committed to improving access to emergency services and enhancing community wellness and safety through the rollout of the 911 service in all 33 communities.

The three-digit telephone number "911" is known as the number to call in emergencies throughout North America. The 911 service gives the public fast and easy access to our communities' emergency services in situations when someone's health, safety, or property is in jeopardy or when a crime is in progress.

There have been several emergency situations over the years and across the territory where having a 911 service would have improved response times and, in some cases, even saved lives.

The days of residents and visitors to the Northwest Territories not knowing how to contact community emergency services will finally come to an end. I am pleased to announce that, as of November 2019, our residents and visitors will be able to call 911 from every community in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is working diligently to complete all the tasks needed to get the systems and processes in place to ensure 911 works for all of our residents on the first day of operation.

This month, 911 staff will work with each community government to make sure local emergency referral information is correct. They will be able to answer any questions that communities may have about the standard call transfer processes of the 911 service.

The Emergency Communications Centre will be ready, and the Med-Response program and 911 management staff will move in. As Members will recall, the Med-Response program provides dedicated clinical staff who respond to calls 24 hours a day to help community health practitioners stabilize critical patients. They will assess patients and dispatch medevac flights quickly when needed. It makes sense to co-locate this service with the 911 service.

Recruitment will begin this month, as well, for the 911 bilingual emergency medical dispatcher positions. These positions are critical for systems operations.

The Northwest Territories 911 Act was passed and received assent in March. The act was a significant milestone in the implementation of the 911 program. Municipal and Community Affairs staff are now working on the regulations necessary for the collection and remittance of the cost recovery fees by telecommunication companies. We anticipate having these regulations completed by the end of June.

Mr. Speaker, over the summer months and into September, the final 911 system will be installed. Rigorous territorial-wide telecommunications testing will begin with NorthwesTel to ensure systems work as they should from every community. On September 3, 2019, the 911 dispatchers will begin their intensive training and support of systems testing, which will continue until the "go live" date.

Once 911 is live, there will be an awareness campaign in the media and direct mail to resident's homes, as well as signage for every Government of the Northwest Territories and municipal building in the Northwest Territories. Until then, members of the public should call the existing emergency numbers in their communities.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy once again to confirm the NWT 911 service will be "going live" for every community in the Northwest Territories in November 2019. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories made a mandate commitment to develop a northern manufacturing strategy in collaboration with industry and the NWT's Manufacturers Association.

I am pleased today to table the Northwest Territories Manufacturing Strategy for diversifying our economy. The strategy was developed with extensive input from the public, Chambers of Commerce, businesses, and, most importantly, the NWT Manufacturers Association.

In a thorough engagement campaign, stakeholders from every region of the NWT contributed feedback which our staff considered and included throughout this strategy. We took a very collaborative approach that included MLAs, and I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment for sending two representatives, the Member for Yellowknife North and the Member for Hay River North, to participate in one of our key engagement sessions with the NWT Manufacturers Association this past November.

Mr. Speaker, the strategy defines a series of actions to enhance and grow this high potential sector of our economy.

These actions address four key objectives:

  • establishing a strong manufacturing association and sector;
  • improving manufacturer access to information, services, and capital;
  • renewing the Northern Manufactured Products Policy; and
  • growing the manufacturing sector.

Seventeen actions under these four objectives will be implemented over the next five years in partnership with the NWT Manufacturers Association.

The intent is to achieve some ambitious results as we put this strategy into action. We're aiming for an increase in manufacturing sales of 25 percent in the first three years. Within five years, we want to see a further 25 percent increase in sales and improve labour participation in the sector. Essential to the success of this strategy will be the continued partnership of our Manufacturers Association. To that end, we're bringing them into the implementation process on an ongoing basis. We've committed to reviewing this strategy annually with the stakeholders we aim to support, and adjusting our path as required to meet the evolving needs of this sector.

Mr. Speaker, this is just the latest follow-up to our Economic Opportunities Strategy, the document defining how we've approached economic diversification over the last five years. It joins our commercial fishing revitalization, agriculture, and film strategies in setting out sector-specific plans to address our economic priorities beyond the resource industries.

This strategy is just one way we've supported a stronger manufacturing sector throughout this Legislative Assembly. We're in the midst of building a fish processing plant to support a revitalized commercial fishing industry, and we finalized changes to our Diamond Policy Framework, opening the door for creative diamond manufacturing operations to grow our territory's economy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I would like to seek unanimous consent to move item number 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery, as the next item of business. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Unanimous consent granted

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5716

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Colleagues, I'd like to draw your attention to visitors in the gallery today. [English translation not provided.] I'd just like to welcome the Chief Jimmy Bruneau School students who are here with us. It's always a pleasure to have a young generation with us, future leaders, and we look up to you; and also their teacher, Mr. Cochrane, is here with us. Again, masi for joining us. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Frame Lake.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5716

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I'd like to recognize a Frame Lake constituent, Louise Elder. She is also the executive director of the NWT Status of Women, and thank her for the important work that she does. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5716

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5716

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have the honour today to recognize my parents, Winston and Martha Moses, for coming here today. It's not very often I get family to come to a sitting, so I want to thank them.

Also just very quickly, Mr. Speaker, the jacket that I'm wearing belongs to my father, and this is the first time I've ever worn it in this House over the two terms that I've sat here, so I'm very honoured to wear it. Wearing it, I can feel the strength that it brings, and now I know why he's won so many jigging contests wearing it. I just wanted to say thank you for being here today, and I'd like to ask all Members to recognize my parents for being here today. Mahsi cho. Thank you.

---Applause

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5717

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery. Member for Range Lake.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5717

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a couple of constituents I want to recognize. First, Ms. Genge, the grade six St. Joe's teacher, and then Dexter Edjericon is also in the House. Then I want to recognize a couple of our Pages from our Range Lake constituency, Holly Nguyen, Spence Miller, and Breanna Willis. Welcome to our Legislative Assembly as our Pages, and welcome to all Pages in the Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5717

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we missed anyone in the gallery, thanks for being here with us today. It's always good to have an audience as part of our proceedings. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Aklavik All-Season Road
Members' Statements

Page 5717

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. The flood of tourists has arrived, already in high numbers of vehicles. The Abraham Francis ferry on the Peel opened on Sunday, with a line of up traffic waiting to see the beautiful landscape, the welcoming people of the Delta, bringing with them economic growth to our region.

Mr. Speaker, without a doubt, the Dempster Highway has always been a place to travel, everyone's bucket list, and now the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk Highway will be even busier this summer.

Comments from previous years' tourists show that the tourists traveling to the North want to see our country. They want to experience the highways, meet our people, and engage in community activities that are planned throughout the season. Let's start talking about exposing them to more of our land, our people, and our cultures. How about bringing them to Aklavik?

Mr. Speaker, there is a possibility of getting a road. This government can look at options on how we can get construction under way to build this highway to Aklavik. There is nothing short of a positive outcome from this idea. Think of the reduction in food, home heating fuel, and gasoline costs.

Like all our communities in the Northwest Territories, Aklavik has much to offer. The list goes on, Mr. Speaker. This government should take this very seriously and start lobbying the federal government for funding. We need a road to Aklavik; let's make this a priority. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Aklavik All-Season Road
Members' Statements

Page 5717

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Fire Ban Beyond Territorial Parks
Members' Statements

Page 5717

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The weather of the past few days might not make you think so, but the Northwest Territories is entering the high-risk fire season once again. I know the department is on the case. It's gratifying to see regular fire updates and know that our best folks are on the job, monitoring the situation and ready to take action when required. In fact, some of our fire teams are helping our Alberta neighbours as we speak.

Mr. Speaker, when conditions become dangerous, our system allows authorities to call a fire ban, but it's been brought to my attention by concerned constituents from the Ingraham Trail that there's a loophole in that system. Currently, a fire ban provides authority to ban any open fires inside the boundaries of a territorial park, but not everybody is in the parks, Mr. Speaker. So if there's a fire ban, campers outside a territorial park do not have to abide. My constituents report that frequently, if fires are banned at the Reid Lake campsite, for example, campers just go down the highway along the banks of Cameron River and light a fire there.

Mr. Speaker, the Forest Act was due to be updated during this Assembly, and this loophole may have been addressed, but for good reason that legislation is being delayed until the 19th Assembly. That said, in Alberta, a fire ban means no fires, anywhere. In the Yukon, same thing. So why not here?

Mr. Speaker, people are the leading cause of forest fires. That's the case no matter how much we spend on public education. Just in the past couple of weeks I've seen a handful of reports on social media about people finding abandoned open fires burning at the Yellowknife River Day Use area. Constituents who drive that road every day see this unsafe situation numerous times along the trail. They are deeply concerned about their homes and their family's safety. If people aren't going to be responsible, Mr. Speaker, we need to equip our fire professionals with the tools they need to enforce safety.

Clearly, Mr. Speaker, there must be something we can do before something disastrous happens. Some mechanism is needed to enforce a fire ban on all public lands, not just those within park boundaries. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Fire Ban Beyond Territorial Parks
Members' Statements

Page 5718

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Filipino Heritage Month
Members' Statements

Page 5718

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to recognize and celebrate the diversity of the Northwest Territories. On October 30, 2018, the House of Commons unanimously passed Motion 155 recognising June as Filipino Heritage Month in Canada. This declaration expresses Canada's recognition of the contribution of Canadians of Filipino heritage from coast to coast to coast. "Filipino Canadians have and continue to make Canada a better place with their recognized hard work, solid family ties, and strong religious grounding."

The Philippines declared their independence from Spain on June 12, 1898, and today recognises 19 official languages. Filipinos are the fastest-growing ethnic group in Canada. Prominent Philipino Canadians include singers like Canadian Idol finalist Elena Juatco and athletes like soccer star Jonathan de Guzman. Canada's first Filipino Canadian Member of Parliament and Cabinet Minister Rey Pagtakhan, the late Senator Tobias Enverga, and Yellowknife's own city councillor Rommel Silverio are champions of the Filipino-Canadian community, and I want to thank them for all that they have contributed to the Canadian experience.

As far back as the 1930s, the first wave of Filipinos came to Canada and worked as nurses, garment workers, teachers, and in the health sector. Their stories are often those of enormous sacrifice, leaving their families behind in the Philippines to build a better life for them here in Canada, and hoping one day to be reunited with their families.

Mr. Speaker, building a diverse and inclusive society through promoting and encouraging awareness, understanding, and respect for our many different cultures must remain a paramount priority. The Filipino community is another example of how diversity is our strength. Filipino Heritage Month is a way of showing our country's appreciation of the Filipino community for their important contribution throughout Canadian history and for helping to make our country diverse and vibrant. Filipino Heritage Month will help celebrate these important contributions, and many more, that have enriched Canadian society.

Mr. Speaker I hope that the Members of this House will join me in celebrating and honouring Filipino Heritage Month. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Filipino Heritage Month
Members' Statements

Page 5718

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to visitors in the gallery here with us. I am pleased to draw your attention to the presence of Ms. Lucia Piazza, Consul-General of the United States to Alberta, Saskatchewan, and the Northwest Territories.

Ms. Piazza joined the State Department in 2001. She has worked extensively in Africa and on Middle East issues, serving in Uganda, Togo, Nigeria, and Tunisia. She has also had multiple tours in Washington.

Members, please join me in welcoming Consul-General Ms. Piazza to our proceedings and to our beautiful Legislative Assembly building. Welcome to the North; and, of course, our very own Carmen Moore, chief of protocol. Thanks for doing an excellent job. Masi. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I watched the closing ceremony for the National Inquiry into Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women and Girls. From the lighting of the quilliq to the families' tearful stories to the Commissioners' grim determination, it took me back to the three days of commission hearings in Yellowknife in January of last year.

In my statement to this House then, I spoke of priority issues I heard from northern women's testimony. Yesterday afternoon I reviewed the 120-page executive summary of the report to see what the recommendations said about those issues in particular. One was the difficulty of accessing counselling in small communities. The Commissioners acknowledged the lack of health and wellness services forcing people to relocate to access care. They recommended government services be accessible where people live, offered in partnership with Indigenous people, and within the context of cultural safety.

Another issue that concerned me was the importance of helping children who had witnessed violence in their families, and once again, the lack of services outside Yellowknife. The Commissioners' general recommendation is to provide continual and accessible support for children.

There is so much more in the report about better housing, the preservation of language and culture as underpinnings of identity, third-party police oversight, and establishing a Child and Youth Advocate, to name a few. These are the specifics, but make no mistake: the report recommends sweeping changes across society to come to terms with the legacy of endemic violence against Indigenous women and girls and to chart a path forward in which women are safe and valued. As the chief commissioner said to families yesterday, "your truth cannot be unheard."

The issue front and center for me is that, given the prevalence of violence against women, governments must put more money into prevention and eradication. The report released yesterday notes that there has been little movement to implement recommendations from previous reports, and most efforts have been reactive, not preventative. This is a significant barrier to addressing the root causes of violence. The report goes on to say, "Insufficient political will continues to be a roadblock across all initiatives. Solutions must be prioritized and resourced in partnership with Indigenous people and support self-determination."

I will have questions for the Minister responsible for the Status of Women about how this government plans to respond to this milestone report. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Forest Fire Evacuation
Members' Statements

Page 5719

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. [English translation not provided.] The forest fires of Alberta have impacted the NWT and, as neighbours, we watch in worry for family and friends who live in northern Alberta. The residents of the Deh Cho riding remember all too well the terrible fires of 2014. Thankfully, none of our communities were damaged that year and we pray that the communities in northern Alberta are also spared.

Some evacuees from High Level and surrounding communities were accommodated on the Hay River Reserve, and they were just allowed to go home yesterday, but they have been told that they must be ready to evacuate again at a moment's notice.

Mr. Speaker, here in the NWT, we have 33 communities, and most of them are surrounded by thick forests. We have to ask ourselves: are we prepared to address a potential situation of an out-of-control wildland forest fire threatening our communities?

The recent wet weather has been helpful, and according to ENR, there is only one active fire in the NWT at the moment, but we all know how quickly things can change. Now is the time to prepare and make sure that our communities are as safe as they can be from forest fires.

Mr. Speaker, the 2014 forest fire season was the biggest forest fire season on record in the NWT. The community of Kakisa was evacuated and fortunately no injury or damage was done. Following that fire season, some fire guards around some communities were established. Some communities only have one road going into the community, and others are only accessible by air. A fast-moving fire could cause a catastrophe.

The GNWT has initiatives such as the FireSmart programs that clear low laying combustibles and forest thinning to lessen the spread of wildfire around communities. It is essential for our isolated communities especially to make themselves as safe as possible from wildfires. I will have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time on what is being done to prepare our communities should they be threatened by forest fires. Mahsi Mr. Speaker.

Forest Fire Evacuation
Members' Statements

Page 5719

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. In April and May, the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment travelled extensively on bills related to our post-devolution environmental and resource management regime. I have been mulling over the co-development process of such legislation which was part of the promise of devolution, the co-called made-in-the-North approach. While working with Indigenous governments and relevant co-management authorities might prove a challenge, it is the right way to develop our post-devolution management regime. What is not at all clear is how standing committee fits into the process.

Here are a few observations on what we heard about co-development or co-drafting. The process can be a time-consuming, as we saw with the Wildlife Act. Co-development worked better on some bills than others, with some departments better than others, with large variations even within departments. It takes time and requires more resources. Extraordinary negotiation skills and an understanding of our complicated history of Indigenous governance and land rights arrangements are required.

Paramountcy of lands rights agreements is a given. The trick is to find ways to recognize and incorporate the authority and jurisdiction of co-management authorities into bills governing such diverse and cross-cutting subjects as environmental rights, protected areas, and non-renewable resources. The expertise and experience of co-management authorities also brings added value to their involvement. We also heard that is important that legislative drafters be in the room when discussions take place.

Turning to standing committee and Regular MLAs, I want to acknowledge a very thoughtful submission by the Northwest Territory Metis Nation that offered observations and advice on co-development. Committee can play a significant role in ensuring that legislation is developed in accordance with the principles of the Northwest Territories Intergovernmental Agreement on Lands and Resources Management. There should be no impediments to committee getting briefed as the legislative initiatives develop and important policy matters emerge. Committee should have a role defining GNWT's positions during the co-development process. That is how consensus government is supposed to work, but did not work well in the case of some of these bills. The NWT Metis Nation also observed that MLAs can lack discipline in voting to maintain critical positions on issues such as legislative initiatives.

Lots to reflect on and learn from the co-development process to date, and I look forward to being part of that process. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Last week, Mr. Speaker, the main supply line, Highway no. 1, was in jeopardy and experienced a temporary closure due to the northern Alberta wildfires. Here in the capital, experiences of this closure were seen by the empty store shelves. Essential products were among the first to go.

Mr. Speaker, this main supply corridor covers the whole Northwest Territories in one way or another and is consistent with the southern NWT communities, industry, and vendors to those clients. As you can see, infrastructure is an important connection to the sustainability and growth of the Northwest Territories.

As we transition from the 18th Assembly, reports of progress and in-progress mandate items are fundamental to the completion of our government's goals and aspirations. I address the Mackenzie Valley Highway Mandate 1.1.1 as a remaining priority in transition, which must be included in Cabinet's transitional report to the 19th Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, the North is unique and resourceful. With a balanced approach on collaborative engagements, partnerships, responsible development, TPR or tax payers' return on capital investments, principles that the Sahtu region only knows very well, Mr. Speaker, we can broaden our horizons through the expanding of our infrastructure network, while creating meaningful benefits. Mr. Speaker, later I will have questions for the Minister of Infrastructure. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is of utmost importance that the youth of our northern communities have a successful school experience and set goals for themselves. One person is Julian Sabourin of Fort Simpson.

Julian has always considered Fort Simpson home, with close family residing in the community, and where his passion for the outdoors could truly be acknowledged.

At the age of seven, Julian moved to Yellowknife, but made an effort to visit family in Fort Simpson often, fulfilling a desire to stay in contact with the beautiful environment he calls home. Julian first took interest in working outdoors when an ENR Wildlife Officer presented to his fifth grade class. As a 10-year-old, Julian thought this job was very exciting and decided this is what he wanted to do in the future.

As Julian grew up in Yellowknife, there were many other interesting career paths he could take, but maintained focus towards his original end goal of becoming an ENR Wildlife Officer. In 2014, Julian was given a job opportunity at Parks Canada in Fort Simpson. Although the process took longer than expected, Julian was looking at a bright future. Eventually, Julian got a call to start work at the Parks, along with being accepted to a post-secondary school. Julian took a natural resource program at Lethbridge College. Beyond being from a small northern community, Julian successfully attended school while working at Parks Canada in Fort Simpson during the summer months.

Julian now works as an ENR Wildlife Officer in Fort Simpson. Julian is pleased to say these experiences and opportunities have shaped what he wanted to do in his life.

Mr. Speaker, I speak for myself and for our region when I say we are very fortunate to have young members advocating education be taken as not only sitting at a desk, but experiences that could possibly develop into a life goal being accomplished, and I would like to thank Julian for his commitment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. I believe this will be my last Member's statement on "Aging in Place." Over a number of years, I have been talking about the huge benefits of allowing seniors to age in place in their own communities and in their own homes.

Mr. Speaker, this government has decided to build long-term care facilities in Hay River and Inuvik, both with 48 beds. However, there aren't many seniors who actually look forward to moving into these facilities. In Inuvik, the majority of the elders going into long-term care are from surrounding communities, and most, if not all, have no desire to be uprooted and institutionalized in another community. In fact, that is the opposite of what people want. No seniors have ever called me to say that they were looking forward to moving into a long-term care facility. Yet here we are, planning to build and fill up new facilities with seniors at a rate of over $140,000 per senior, per year.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we need to approach this issue with a different strategy because, while I do recognize the need for more long-term care spaces in the future, I believe we must also consider ideas from other jurisdictions that have potential to help improve our existing homecare policy in the NWT. For example, in British Columbia, there are several options people can choose prior to entering into long-term care facilities, all of which are a variation of homecare delivery, which includes community nursing, community rehabilitation, home support, choice of supports for independent living, caregiver relief, end-of-care services, assisted living, and short-term residential care facilities.

Another example to consider, Mr. Speaker, is the homecare policy of Ontario, called "Home First," which is a philosophy that aims to keeping frail patients out of the hospital and back into their homes as soon as possible. The Home First model includes three components: the Wait at Home Program for daily living, errand and social support; the Enhanced Wait at Home Program, which includes up to 56 hours per week of personal support for seniors in need of more help; and the Stay at Home program, which helps seniors delay or eliminate the need for LTC placement. Mr. Speaker, I speak unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

This approach, among other things, provides seniors and their loved ones more time to decide whether or not they wish to move into long-term and also allows seniors to wait at home, rather than in hospital, until a long-term care spot is necessary.

I could go on Mr. Speaker, but, ultimately, the best solution for this situation is to allow seniors to age in place by providing them with supplemental programs that will help them to maintain safe and independent living in their own homes as long as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to move to item 13 on the orders of the day, reports of committees on the review of bills. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Unanimous consent granted

Bill 38: Protected Areas Act
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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment has reviewed Bill 38, Protected Areas Act, and wishes to report that Bill 38 is now ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole as amended and reprinted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 38: Protected Areas Act
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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Member for Yellowknife North.

Bill 38: Protected Areas Act
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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 75(5) and to have Bill 38, Protected Areas Act, moved into Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 75(5) and have Bill 38, Protected Areas Act, moved into Committee of the Whole.

---Unanimous consent granted

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Bill 38, Protected Areas Act, is now moved to Committee of the Whole for further consideration. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Member for Yellowknife North.

Bill 44: Forest Act
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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment has reviewed Bill 44, Forest Act. Mr. Speaker, after extensive consultation, serious consideration, and ongoing dialogue with the sponsoring Minister, the committee wishes to report that Bill 44 is not ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole and recommends that the bill be not further proceeded with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Reports of committee on the review of bills. Member for Yellowknife North.

Bill 44: Forest Act
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Page 5722

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 75(3) and to have Bill 44, Forest Act, moved to third reading of bills later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 44: Forest Act
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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 75(3) and to have Bill 44, Forest Act, moved to a third reading of bills for later today.

---Unanimous consent granted

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Bill 44 is now moved for third reading later on today. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Member for Yellowknife North.

Bill 44: Forest Act
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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Your Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly is pleased to provide its Final Report on Increasing the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly and commends it to this House.

INTRODUCTION

The Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly ("committee") was tasked to gather information and public input into options on how to support the goal of increasing women's representation in the Legislative Assembly to 20 percent by 2023 and 30 percent by 2027. The committee is pleased to present this final report, which was developed in accordance with committee's mandate as determined by the terms of reference. This report includes consideration of the discussion paper "Temporary Special Measures to Increase the Representation of Women in the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly" ("discussion paper") presented by the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly in May 2018.

Committee heard overwhelming support for encouraging more women to run for elected seats and increasing the number of women in the legislature. Committee heard the need for more public discussion on how to reach these goals.

During public hearings and stakeholder meetings, committee discussed guaranteed seats, a solution proposed to increase women's representation. Feedback on the discussion paper included discussion of alternative and complementary measures that participants suggested may be considered or may work well in their communities and the Northwest Territories.

In this report, we respond to the discussion paper and briefly discuss gender quotas and guaranteed seats in legislatures in other countries. We report views residents shared with us, including suggestions for other legislative changes; changes to any current rules of the Legislative Assembly; current and related legislation; and policies of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Legislative Assembly.

The committee makes three recommendations intended to improve conditions for women's engagement in territorial politics.

Finally, the committee urges the Members of the 19th Assembly to continue the work that has begun under this special committee and continue efforts to increase gender equity in the Legislative Assembly.

The committee members thank the communities for their warm welcome and participants for their time and effort in attending the meetings and openly sharing their opinions. Committee is appreciative of all the submissions received, as they informed the committee's discussions and recommendations.

Background

The committee began work on November 28, 2018, and consulted with the public in 10 community hearings throughout the Northwest Territories, as listed in Appendix A of this report. Approximately 120 individuals attended the public meetings, 90 percent being women. Most public hearings were televised and remain accessible on Facebook and Twitter, except where technical challenges prevented the live recording. The committee received 11 written submissions, as listed in Appendix B, and additional requests for meetings with interest groups who had also been invited to provide written submission.

Tasked with identifying barriers that prevent women from running, and recommending incentives that mitigate these barriers, the committee tabled an interim report on March 12, 2019. In accordance with the overall goal of helping increase the representation of women in the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly, the Committee made seven recommendations which were adopted unanimously by the Members of this House. The interim report is included as Appendix C and is available on the committee's web page.

Four of seven recommendations proposed measures to support work-life balance for parents, introducing childcare-friendly provisions to the Legislative Assembly, and requiring a review of the family-friendliness of this building. The remaining three recommendations provide solutions to removing barriers preventing women from participating successfully in politics: making information on consensus government more accessible; information about the specifics of an MLA's role; and increasing campaign training for women in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, now turn the reading of this report over to the honourable Member from Thebacha.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Thebacha.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you.

RESPONSE TO SPEAKER'S DISCUSSION PAPER

An important goal of the discussion paper was to spark public discussion on increasing the representation of women in the NWT Legislative Assembly and the provision of guaranteed seats as a temporary measure to help make this happen.

The discussion prompted by the creation of this committee has only begun, and committee strongly believes it is an important dialogue that needs to continue.

One prominent theme committee heard during public meetings was that conversations on how to increase representation of women are needed in communities and the Northwest Territories, and opportunities should be created for this discussion to continue:

"While we do face barriers, conversations like these start the knowledge sharing that can help to reduce some of the strains and barriers that may deter women from running for any position." (Natasha Kulikowski, Written Submission, 11 April 2019)

Discussing Gender Quotas

There are three main gender quota models in use in other jurisdictions. Two of these, electoral candidate quotas and political party quotas, are reliant upon a party-based political system. The third involves the provision of guaranteed seats. Each of these models intervenes at a different point in the electoral process.

Electoral candidate quotas are a mechanism by which political parties are required to bring a predetermined proportion of female-to-male candidates forward for elections. This model is found to be most effective if it mandates a minimum threshold of 30 percent of women candidates per list. Electoral candidate quotas are often accompanied by sanctions against parties for non-compliance. (Rosen 2017)

Gender quotas are a mechanism to regulate that a percentage of those elected must be women. A quota can also apply to both sexes. In Slovenia, for example, 40 percent of either sex candidates must be included in any list of candidates. Prior to this legal gender quota, women's representation at the national level varied between 14 to 25 percent. (Gaber 2019)

In Canada, the federal Standing Committee on the Status of Women encouraged registered parties to "set voluntary quotas for the percentage of female candidates they field in federal elections and to publicly report on their efforts to meet these quotas after every federal general election." (April 2019 Report).

This model cannot be implemented under the current territorial political system, where candidates run as independents and there are no political parties. Without political parties, there are no party candidate lists, and it is unclear who would bring sanctions and to whom they would be applied if not enough women candidates come forward.

"Absent political parties or proportional representation, the NWT Legislative Assembly has limited structural means to influence the number of women candidates who run in a given election." (Office of the Speaker of the NWT Legislative Assembly, 2018).

A study comparing quota models in 160 countries concluded gender quota legislation is a practical point of departure for those looking to increase women's political representation, but implementation shows significant differences across countries, in quota design and outcomes.

The complexity that exists in the interplay between electoral systems, socioeconomic development status, and the presence of conflict in a country, makes it difficult to predict results for any country based on specific quota models alone (Rosen 2017).

Recent research compared women's combined legislative representation in countries without gender quotas to those with quotas. We find that the representation of women in legislatures with gender quotas is approximately ten percent higher than in countries without quotas (Hughes and Paxton 2019).

Through its research, committee found that quotas have the potential to substantially increase women's representation in national legislatures. In the studies consulted, researchers also agree that quotas, including guaranteed seats, can be a "fast track" to increase women's political representation.

Discussing Measures Increasing the Representation of Women

Committee heard that the discussion paper is a "'wonderful and good first step in efforts to increase the representation of women in the NWT Legislative Assembly" (Wendy Bisaro).

"I cannot stress strongly enough how much I believe greater representation of women in the NWT Assembly is needed. A woman's perspective on just about anything is different from a man's view on the same thing. It is not better or worse, just different." (Wendy Bisaro, Written Submission, 15 February 2019)

Committee was told that the perspective of approximately 50 percent of the NWT's population is missing because women are not adequately represented in the Legislative Assembly. We heard that this absence of the female perspective affects the whole of the population, because those elected are making laws and policies for all residents of the NWT.

The discussion paper offers a proposal on how the NWT Legislative Assembly could reach its goals of 20 and 30 percent women Members by 2023 and 2027, respectively, by applying a system adopted in Samoa, which provides a constitutional guarantee of a minimum of five seats for women.

Committee was often asked why the goal of 30 percent women by 2027 was not set at 50 percent. Some respondents asked that, instead of using special measures, the electoral system be changed to guarantee women 50 percent of the seats, without a time limit. Committee heard that this proposal for temporary special measures does not go far enough and should strive for true gender balance.

"In particular, the Council would like to see the Legislative Assembly fully explore a Gender-Equal Legislative Assembly as this model is consistent with gender equality and involves a democratic process: female and male candidates are voted for by their constituents and one female and one male candidate are elected to the Legislative Assembly per district" (Status of Women Council of the NWT, Written Submission, 3 May 2019)

Twenty years ago, before the creation of Nunavut in 1999, an appointed implementation commission proposed a two-member constituency model for the new territory, recommending a gender-equal Legislative Assembly. A man and a woman would be elected by all voters in each district. The proposal was put to a non-binding public vote in May 1997, resulting in 57 percent of ballots against the idea. Had the system been implemented, Nunavut's Assembly would have been the world's first gender-equal, democratically-elected legislature. Currently, six of 22 Members (27 percent) of Nunavut's Legislative Assembly are women.

During public meetings, we also heard that the temporary measures should in fact ask for 90 percent of guaranteed seats for women for the next 36 years to balance out the inequity of the past, ensuring that 90 percent of legislators are women.

Committee heard a proposal for a system that would guarantee five seats at large for women to join the legislature without having a riding, in addition to the existing riding-based electoral system. Some had reservations about this proposal and stressed that it would put women into an unfair position, having to campaign NWT-wide and having to pay higher campaign costs compared to men who would run for election in local ridings. Given that raising campaign funds is already identified as a barrier to women running, this model was seen as double disadvantage for women.

Committee heard from participants that several countries have established guaranteed seats and that the committee should look to models other than Samoa's before settling on a model.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn this report over to the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Discussing Guaranteed Seats

Guaranteed or reserved seats are an electoral mechanism that has become a popular tool in modern democracies. The purpose of guaranteed seats is to ensure that representation in legislative assemblies is more reflective of the population being governed.

Countries use guaranteed seats as a mechanism to include populations on the basis of ethnicity, language, religion, geography and/or gender. Legislatures reserving seats on the basis of ethnicity, not based on language, include New Zealand, India, and Rwanda. Countries recognizing language or national identity are predominantly European countries, such as Slovenia and Kosovo. Religious identity is the basis for guaranteed seats in countries in the Middle East and South Asia and geographical representation is used where islands are detached from the nation state's mainland (Fiji, Isle of Man in the United Kingdom).

Many countries have developed gender quota systems in conjunction with other measures imbedded in the countries' socioeconomic realities. In this mix of measures, guaranteed seats may be chosen to address one factor of representation, and in countries with political party systems, electoral lists may be the tool used to establish gender quotas.

Belgium, for example, established guaranteed seats for each of the three language communities of the nation to ensure that each of its communities is represented in the Belgian parliament. Belgium's electoral system is a party-based system with proportional representation. Political parties have to comply with a gender quota and each candidate list must have as many women as men candidates listed. In this way, Belgium applied a gender quota of 50 percent to all electoral lists. This does not guarantee that all women will be elected, however, voters chose from an equal number of women and men when voting.

Rwanda, to ensure long-lasting peace after war and genocide, developed an elaborate system of reserved seats, quotas and other mechanisms to ensure gender and minority representation. Rwanda is also the only country with sanctions for non-compliance of its reserved seat quota.

New Zealand, the first country to make women eligible to vote (in 1893), and to stand for election to parliament (in 1919), has today 49 woman Members of Parliament and surpasses the 40-percent mark in gender representation in its legislature. New Zealand's early path toward gender equity is seen as a combination of political will among parliamentarians, and a desire for equal rights by the Pakeha settler feminists in convergence with Maori women petitioning on land rights and women's rights. Both women's groups continued throughout the country's history to organize advocacy for representation.

New Zealand's voting system includes a number of guaranteed seats for Maori, the Indigenous peoples of New Zealand. Maori representation was guaranteed through the establishment of separate Maori electorates as early as 1867. In 1973, the government introduced the "Maori Electoral Option" allowing electors of Maori descent to choose whether they enrolled in General or in Maori seats. Electoral reforms in 1993 created a Mixed-Member Proportional voting system in New Zealand while maintaining the guaranteed Maori seats.

Today, out of the 120 seats in parliament, 29 belong to members of Maori descent including the seven seats guaranteed for Maori determined by the size of the population who self-identify as having Maori ethnicity. This distribution raised discussions of whether the guaranteed seats are needed.

Many Maori have argued for the retention of guaranteed seats not only as providing guaranteed representation but also as a symbolic recognition and practical manifestation of the Treaty of Waitangi in the New Zealand Parliament. Abolitionists argue it is a flawed model that may sideline Maori concerns.

It is generally believed that the existence of guaranteed seats plays a large part in explaining the larger representation of Maori in Parliament, in particular when comparing to the low representation in Australia of Aboriginal people in political office, where no such measures exist.

Pros and Cons of Guaranteed Seats

Committee heard various views on the proposed solutions to increase women representation in the Legislative Assembly by applying temporary measures. Some found that temporary guaranteed seats are a good measure but had concerns on what the impact would be in the long-term; other rejected the idea of guaranteed seats in principle.

In committee's public hearings, those who spoke against the idea of guaranteed seats had concerns of principle with the idea of reserving seats. Committee heard that guaranteed seats may be seen as a form of tokenism with the negative implication that the seats are held by women lacking merit. In this way, guaranteed seats present 'freebees' or 'pity seats' and were said to possibly hurt women on their path to equality.

We heard concerns that while well-meaning, guaranteed seats for women may be a disservice to women by increasing their vulnerability to harassment and provoking comments disregarding the merit of those women who gained guaranteed seats. Guaranteed seats were described as exposing women to possible stigmatized treatment and gendered comments.

Concern was also raised that women legislators in reserved seats may be more likely to be marginalized from power or cabinet positions. This concern, however, is not limited to guaranteed seats but could apply to all women legislators, under the current system used in the Northwest Territories for the selection of Cabinet Ministers.

The opposite view was also mentioned, that bringing more women into the legislature would ease the stress on the few women who hold seats and who may feel like tokens. In this context, the conflicts that may arise through guaranteed seats were considered temporary.

"If you want to achieve equality in numbers of men and women at the Legislative Assembly, there exists a reasonably easy way of achieving this. It is not my idea but I like it: give each constituency two MLAs, one man and one woman." (Dave Nickerson, Public Hearing Yellowknife, 8 May 2019)

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pass the reading of this report on to the honourable Member for Deh Cho.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Deh Cho.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Considering Guaranteed Seats for Women in the NWT

To achieve the target of 20 percent women in the NWT Assembly of 19 Members, at least four women would need to win seats. Currently, two women hold seats in the NWT Legislature, representing 11 percent of the seats.

The discussion paper shows first, how many guaranteed seats would be required for a 20 and a 30 percent representation of women in the NWT Legislative Assembly. Then, the discussion paper shows how scenarios would have played out in the past NWT elections of 2015, 2011, and 2007. Three additional seats would have been required in 2015 and 2011. Two additional seats would have been required in 2007, as three women were elected. To achieve the target of a 30 percent representation of women, six additional seats would have been needed in 2015 and 2011. Five more seats would have been added in 2007.

The discussion paper sparked discussion on how the model of guaranteed seats could encourage young women to participate more in politics.

"And I really liked how you referenced the Samoa people [...] and their concept of reserved seating and I think that if you wanted to be a bit progressive and move forward and encourage women in politics, that might be one solution to look at. I think what they started out with was they had six reserved seats, and not all of them were filled the first time they started that, but I think that might encourage more women to come out if you have that sort of model to go after as well. (Jessica Landry, Public Hearing Detah, January 16, 2019)

Committee heard questions with regard to the discussion paper's proposals. For example, if five additional women members are appointed through this model, how would the Cabinet and Regular Members function? Would Cabinet be larger? Would Regular Members number 16 with a seven-member Cabinet? Others wondered how the additional seats would be funded, and how the possible higher representation of women for Yellowknife would be dealt with.

"Since the beginning, there have only been 12 women. Six of them are indigenous women, like Lisa Laurier, Nellie Cournoyea, Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Lena Pederson, Helen Maksagak, Manitok Thompson" (Jane Groenewegen, Public Hearing Hay River, 9 January 2019).

Committee heard a variety of comments, including that incumbent women who do not win their seat back should be excluded from reserved seats. Confusion was expressed regarding how the guaranteed seats relate to women candidates, who only narrowly lose against their male competitors. It was also suggested that seats should be given to those candidates who were successful in getting high voter percentages.

Another option suggested in the discussion paper is to allocate additional seats to constituencies with the "highest level of relative underrepresentation" according to the findings of the Electoral Boundaries Commission. The last commission report (2013) identified Monfwi, Yellowknife, and the Sahtu as relatively under-represented.

The discussion paper identified several areas for additional study, such as the make-up of Cabinet; how vacancies would be filled between general elections; and whether additional women members would represent specific ridings or the NWT at large.

The discussion paper concludes that the measures proposed could be put in place for a limited time, such as two or three elections, and then automatically sunset. In the meantime, if targets were met through the normal electoral process, no extra, guaranteed seats would be needed.

Committee did not hear a discussion on the temporary nature of the proposed scenarios specifically, or options for alternative time frames.

Additional Suggestions

Committee was asked to consider a quota for women ministerial positions, in addition to guaranteed seats for women legislators. Setting a minimum number of women ministers was described as the "true" factor in gender equality. Recommendations by the federal Standing Committee on the Status of Women encouraged changes in electoral politics to achieve more gender equality. Electoral district associations would set goals and publicly report on their efforts, including achieving gender parity on their boards of directors and positions of leadership (House of Commons 2019).

There have been calls for position quotas in leadership in other countries. For example, changes proposed to the Maldives government included introducing a mandatory quota of 30 percent for women in leadership positions, and at least one vice president in political parties with more than one deputy leader.

OTHER CHANGES REQUIRING LEGISLATIVE CHANGE

Research demonstrates that we often find a combination of several measures working together: creating discussion and lobbying platforms for women; allocating funds for training and skills-building; establishing women's wings and committees; and legislating -- oh, sorry. My apologies, Mr. Speaker.

Plebiscite

Committee believes that women holding a greater share of seats in the Legislative Assembly will have multiple beneficial effects for the NWT. The most direct and immediate impact will be increased equality of representation and the inclusion of missing perspectives. Increasing women's participation will also affect the performance of politics in the areas of policymaking, public opinion, and the legislature as workplace.

Committee heard that temporary special measures should be a plebiscite issue. If guaranteed seats are deemed necessary in the NWT, they would have to be legislated as suggested in the Speaker's discussion paper.

Two plebiscites have been held in the Northwest Territories, one in 1982 on the division of the territories, and a second one 10 years later in 1992 on the boundary between the NWT and Nunavut. The first plebiscite also began with a recommendation made by a special committee of the Assembly.

Committee notes the agreement on increasing gender equity and the number of women in the Legislative Assembly based on public hearings and submissions received. However, agreement on how to best achieve this goal was not evident.

The committee determined that, should the 2019 election not result in a minimum of 20 percent of women representation, a plebiscite to obtain public feedback on proposed temporary measures to guarantee a minimum number of seats for women in the Legislature, is something that will contribute to the goal of increasing the representation of women in the Assembly.

While the motion adopted by the Legislative Assembly in March 2018 established a goal of 20 percent in 2023, committee is looking for increased representation as soon as the 2019 election. Committee is hopeful that the changes recommended in the interim report will contribute to reaching the goals faster.

Recommendation 1

The Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly recommends that if the 2019 election does not meet 20 percent women representation, the 19th Legislative Assembly call a plebiscite to determine which of the options set out in the discussion paper is preferred by the electorate.

OTHER CHANGES REQUIRING LEGISLATIVE CHANGE

Research demonstrates that we often find a combination of several measures working together: creating discussion and lobbying platforms for women; allocating funds for training and skills-building; establishing women's wings and committees; and legislating financial incentives and assistance programs. Committee heard the suggestion of a women's caucus as an idea to be explored and perhaps to be considered in the future.

Committee heard the proposal to consider limiting the number of terms for which an individual MLA could be re-elected. Incumbency was mentioned as one of the biggest struggles to overcome for new candidates. Limiting the number of terms would encourage change and allow a greater number of different individuals to take of the challenge of serving as a Member of the Legislative Assembly. It would also, however, deprive the legislature of the wisdom that comes from having experienced MLAs in office.

"I used to think two terms should be the limit. I did not realize then that one term is barely enough to understand what you are doing. So maybe three terms, that would be 12 years. It is hard to say. Incumbency is such an obstacle. (Chris Westwell, Public Hearing Fort Smith, 8 January 2019).

Another suggestion is rotating of the Deputy Speaker among men and women MLAs. In this proposal, there would be two Deputy Speakers, one woman and one man, and a rule that requires the Deputy Speakers to alternate when taking on their duties.

Mr. Speaker, I now pass the reading of the next section to my honourable colleague for Range Lake. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Member for Range Lake.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Election Expense Rebate

The Northwest Territories Elections and Plebiscites Act limits the allowable amount of personal funds a candidate may spend on her or his candidacy to $30,000. Committee heard a proposal to reduce this amount to $20,000 because first, this high amount sets a bar and may have potential candidates shy away from running, and secondly, in the past, very few candidates in the Northwest Territories have spent more than $20,000 on their campaign.

"A suggestion I would make is to lower that amount so that the total of expenses isn't $30 grand. It could be brought to $20. I mean, look at the last election, the average for a winning seat of spending has been something like $15,000 dollars. So spending $30 grand doesn't happen to win you anything, but having that out there as the upper layer certainly does set a tone and that can very easily scare somebody off." (David Waslyciw, Public Hearing Yellowknife, 8 May 2019).

In most of Canada's jurisdictions, the definition of election expenses includes all costs incurred to promote the election of a candidate or a political party and is determined in legislation. Reimbursement of part of the election expenses to candidates is provided in most jurisdictions with the exception of Alberta and British Columbia, and the three territories.

Where reimbursement is available, it is most often based on the candidate having received a minimum of votes, ranging between 5 (Prince Edward Island) and 15 percent (Saskatchewan) of the valid votes cast in their constituency. Candidates who qualify for reimbursements of election expenses may receive between 15 (Canada) and 60 percent (Saskatchewan) of their qualifying expenses, depending on jurisdiction and additional rules.

"It is more the financial issues, how do we run, how do we set up office, get campaign material, [...] a fund would make it easier." (Priscilla Canadian, Public Hearing Fort Providence, 10 January 2019)

Committee heard many comments on the subject of campaign funding and election expenses which is perceived by some women to be a barrier to entering politics. Participants noted that no legislation pertaining to women's access to political financing exists, nor are there organizations in place in the NWT to support women running for office as are found in other jurisdictions. Paying for campaigns was described as tough and fund-raising was also described as difficult. Women explained that they are not comfortable being fundraisers. Many mentioned they do not like the idea of going door-to-door and asking for money.

Women told the committee that they struggle with raising the money required to run an effective campaign. While initiatives like the Campaign Schools can help teach how to overcome this problem, financial incentives and assistance programs would provide additional help to women to run for elected seats.

The committee's research found that formal mechanisms to level the playing field between men and women do not exist in the Northwest Territories. Ideally, up-front financial support would enable non-privileged women to have the funds to run for office. However, it was noted a general mechanism reducing the financial burden after a campaign would also help women. One suggestion made to committee was to provide election expense rebates for women candidates.

Committee considered the recommendation of a NWT election expense rebate and conducted an analysis of how much a rebate program would cost. In the past three elections, candidate expenses varied among ridings and by candidate. The committee looked at how much a rebate program would cost, using certain parameters.

First, any money contributed to the campaign was not counted towards an eligible expense, with the exception of a donation by the candidate themselves, so only money spent by the candidate, that was not covered by a donation was considered an eligible expense for the rebate. Second, a candidate was required to receive a minimum of five percent of the total votes in that riding to be eligible for a rebate. Finally, the committee decided that a cap should be in place, and only allow a 50 percent rebate for eligible election expenses.

The committee looked at two options for this. The first cap was set at $10,000, so a candidate would be eligible for a maximum rebate of $5,000. The second cap was set at $6,000, meaning a candidate would receive a maximum of $3,000 back. In Appendix C, the results of the committee's research are presented, with expenses being listed and possible rebates calculated.

The committee found that women would benefit from a rebate, as female candidates have historically spent more out of pocket than male candidates. In both scenarios, the rebate amount calculated for women would have been higher than for men. Considering scenario two with a cap of $6,000, the average rebate for women would have been $1,430, while for men it would have been $910.

The benefit of a rebate appears larger for women than for men as committee's research has found that in the NWT, women expend more of their personal money for their campaigns. This result confirms the information committee heard from women and their expressed discomfort with raising funds and asking for money. Providing partial reimbursement of candidate election expenses under specified conditions contributes to the removal of barriers for women to run and maintains a fair regime for all candidates.

Based on numbers from the past three elections, the overall cost to government would come to about $60,000 every four years to allow for an election expense rebate.

Recommendation 2

The Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly recommends to the Legislative Assembly to create an election rebate for candidates who receive at least 5 percent of the votes cast in her or his electoral district in the NWT, reimbursing 50 percent of eligible personal election expenditures up to a maximum rebate amount of $3,000.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn the reading over to the Member from Nunakput. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Nunapkut.

Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Going Forward

Committee heard from the public that access to role models, mentorship and networking are needed and wanted factors in developing skills and confidence to be successful in politics. Women pointed out that there is a need to increase the opportunities for training in leadership and public speaking. Women mentioned that the creation of local and community discussion groups for women only would be particularly beneficial for women to exchange opinions and develop electoral positions. It was pointed out that these opportunities are currently rare or non-existent and that this gap presents a serious deterrent to female candidacy.

"To have a women-in-leadership course would reinforce a lot of us here to be more confident, and I think by having the course in the community, you will see women come forward." (Joyce McLeod, Public Hearing Fort Providence, 10 January 2019)

NWT Women Lead in Community Leadership

Committee heard that it is not a question of whether or not women have leadership skills. The problem rather is how to encourage women to make the step from local leadership and regional senior positions into the legislature. In addition, it was pointed out that there have been many women deputy ministers in the territorial bureaucracy, raising the question of what it would take to have these women consider and make the move to the legislature and possibly to a role as Cabinet Minister.

Others mentioned that, since there are many women in leadership roles now at the community level, it is support and time that will bring women into the Legislative Assembly. It was stressed that, in addition to and more importantly than Campaign Schools, education is key and it should be part of the dynamic of helping women run. It was mentioned that mentoring and specific training for women, targeted at formalizing leadership skills, would be at least as useful as introducing guaranteed seats.

"Women are as varied in their personal opinions and experience as are men. There should be no assumptions that a "women's issue" impacts or unifies all women in exactly the same way. Strengthen women's advocacy organizations so that the diversity of women's perspectives can be fully represented; including Indigenous women, visible minorities and immigrant women." (Caroline Wawzonek, Written Submission, 1 March 2019)

In 2018, women took many top leadership positions in NWT municipalities; the NWT experienced never before seen numbers of women in leadership at the community level. All four women mayoral candidates in the NWT 2018 fall municipal elections were elected. Committee heard agreement on the need for more promotion to support this change.

A key theme committee heard was that women are comfortable as leaders in their communities but lack connection to formal political spaces. The recent Elect Her report by the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women also found that there is a gap for women between municipal and national politics. Women generally are motivated to create change and to help people and their communities.

Statistics Canada found that women and men participate in politics in different ways; women tend to spend more time on local and civic issues; and women generally vote at higher rates than men, and women are more likely than men to indicate 'feeling uninformed' as their reason for not voting. (Statistics Canada, House of Commons 2019)

"We need more females in politics because they say women are the future but really it is the female youth that are our future. Having different committees or programs that can help spark female youth interest or get their confidence up can help us." (Female Youth, Public Hearing Tuktoyaktuk, 3 April 2019)

Mr. Speaker, I will now pass it on to the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Establish a NWT Leadership Program for Women

Committee took note of research on the effect of female role models in countries with women legislators. Women in the legislature were found to contribute to closing the gender gap in political participation. Current research found that women legislators serve as role models for women and the proportion of women in cabinet has a stronger effect on participation than the proportion of women in parliament. Women in the legislative assembly have a significant impact on increasing electoral participation. (Beauregard 2017, Kittilson 2019, Liu and Bannaszak 2017)

Examples of existing programs include the UN Women's programs on leadership and participation, programs that work with civil society to uphold women's rights, and strengthen arrangements for gender equality and women's empowerment.

Offering workshops in communities was another point committee heard as a good tool to reach women. The Deline Got'ine Government hosted the 'Gender and Resurgence' workshop for Indigenous women in early May 2019, to reflect on women's initiatives.

"If there was a leadership program here like the one they have in Nova Scotia, it would ignite women's political participation. We already have mentors available [...]. If we are looking at the residential school area, that generation created the NWT. The schools these people went to, they have hidden degrees and all the experience and knowledge they have; we could teach our own." (Paula Chinna, Public Hearing Norman Wells, 5 April 2019)

Several times, committee heard the recommendation for a NWT leadership program for women in politics. The 'Indigenous Women in Leadership' program was offered as an example that could be adapted in developing an NWT leadership course for women. It is a five-day course taught by a faculty of the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity geared to "Indigenous women leaders and managers who are responsible for the future of communities and organizations." The program identifies challenges of leadership pertaining to accountability, performance, decision-making, delegation, and mentoring, including social and economic issues, trends and implications.

Committee heard of women in leadership programs offered by St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia as good examples that if adopted in the NWT would ignite women interest in running for elected seats. The Coady International Institute offers women's leadership programs with a separate program focused on Indigenous women.

The committee recommends that the NWT establish a leadership program specifically in support of developing women leadership. Committee heard at every occasion that women in the NWT require support in leadership development and access to leadership networks. Establishing a women's leadership program in the NWT will address this need.

Recommendation 3

The Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly recommends the NWT Legislative Assembly support the new NWT Polytechnic University to establish a leadership program designed to assist women to gain the skills and knowledge to take on leadership roles, including territorial, Indigenous and municipal political positions.

CONCLUSION

Committee was tasked to "identify and implement a wide range of strategies, including positive action, public debate, and training and mentoring for women as leaders, to achieve these goals." The committee was pleased by the level of interest demonstrated by participants during community visits. Committee's work has underlined the existing interest and the need for dialogue on the role of and opportunities for women to participate in territorial politics.

Committee noted in its interim report that, because the realities of each jurisdiction will influence the effects that incentives have on women's participation, electoral systems cannot be the sole tool to increase women's representation. Research confirms that it is important to find that mix of measures that will work best within each socio-economic context. Changing the workplace by providing opportunities for work-life balance also can have a positive effect on increasing the share of women in Legislative Assemblies.

Committee is hopeful that implementation of recommended changes in both, the interim and the final report will advance reaching the proposed goals of this Assembly.

Committee recommends that the 19th Assembly continue the work the committee has begun and further identify the measures that are required to increase the representation of women in the NWT Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 100(4) and to have Committee Report 17-18(3), Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly Final Report, moved into Committee of the Whole for consideration later today.

---Unanimous consent granted

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Committee Report 17-18(3), Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly Final Report, has now been moved to Committee of the Whole for further consideration later today. Reports of standing and special committees. Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment's Report on Bill 38, Protected Areas Act.

INTRODUCTION

Bill 38, Protected Areas Act, provides the framework for protecting, conserving and maintaining biodiversity, ecological integrity and cultural continuity of the NWT through the creation of a network of permanent protected areas that are representative of the ecosystems and cultural landscape found in the territory.

The bill received second reading and was referred to the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment on February 26, 2019.

PUBLIC CONSULTATION

The committee held public meetings in Fort Smith, Hay River, K'atlodeeche First Nation, Fort Providence, Behchoko, Inuvik, Norman Wells, and Yellowknife. Numerous representatives of Indigenous governments, Renewable Resources Boards and non-governmental organizations made public presentations to the committee, either in person or via written submission, including:

  • NWT Metis Nation,
  • K'atlodeeche First Nation,
  • Tlicho Government,
  • Inuvialuit Game Council,
  • Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated,
  • Lutselke Dene First Nation,
  • Dene Nation,
  • City of Yellowknife,
  • Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board,
  • Sahtu Renewable Resources Board,
  • Gwich'in Land Use Planning Board,
  • Yamoga Land Corporation,
  • NWT Chamber of Commerce,
  • NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines,
  • Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society - Northwest Territories Chapter
  • Ducks Unlimited Canada,
  • Nature United, and
  • A joint submission on behalf of Alternatives North, Ecology North, Canadian Arctic Resources Committee, and Council of Canadians - NWT Chapter

The committee received 20 written submissions. These submissions are attached as Appendix 3. The committee heard broad support for the bill from every presenter, and heard from the Indigenous governments that they were mostly pleased with the drafting process used by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, although some concerns were noted, which will be addressed later in this report. The committee has decided that it will issue a separate report on the issue of the co-development process used for the post-devolution environmental and resource management legislation.

The committee appreciates the plain language materials supplied by the Minister's office for the public hearings.

The work of the standing committee to amend Bill 38 is set out in this report. The report contains recommendations to government on the development of devolution related legislation, as well as the implementation of this legislation. It also provides a rationale for the motions moved by the committee to amend specific provisions in the bill. These motions are listed in Appendix 1 in order of their appearance in the bill and are referred to in this report by the number assigned in the appendix.

WHAT WE HEARD

This part of the report is organized around the key themes or subject areas raised during the committee's public hearings and in the written submissions received.

Public Registry

Clause 9 of Bill 38 establishes a public registry for protected areas. The committee heard concerns across the territory that the proposed items for inclusion on the registry were too limited in scope, and would not meet the public's expectation for openness and transparency. Several presenters spoke at length about the need for an expanded registry to be included in the bill, and not left to regulations.

While the views of what should be included on the registry did differ, there was broad consensus that what was included in the bill was not adequate. These concerns were raised by not only environmental advocates but also by representatives of the mining industry and business community.

The committee had lengthy deliberations on what to include in the registry to address these concerns. The committee felt it was important to ensure that any official document related to a protected area is included in a registry, including establishment agreements, management plans, formal correspondence to or from a management board and any report on the state of protected areas. The committee also recognizes that there may be some issues of sensitivity, and ensured that some information could be kept off the registry, in accordance with the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Any changes to the size or status of a protected area will also be recorded on the registry, including any reduction in size and any establishment of a transportation or transmission corridor.

The committee appreciates the Minister's timely responses to committee's questions, and consequently moved Motions 4, 5, 6, 10, 15, 16, and 27 to expand the information that will be included on the registry.

Integration of Co-Management Bodies

In several of the verbal and written submissions received from Indigenous Governments, there was a general concern that the bill must respect any existing land, resources or self-government agreements that have overlapping provisions regarding the conservation of land, cultural sites or ecological areas.

Specifically, there were concerns that the roles of Renewable Resources Boards and Land Use Planning Boards, established under these agreements, were not always clear in relation to the Protected Areas Management Board. Further, Renewable Resources Boards and Land Use Planning Boards were not treated consistently in being given notice or engaged in the review and management of protected areas throughout the bill.

To address these concerns, committee moved the following motions to ensure that Land Use Planning Boards were treated in the same manner as Renewable Resources Boards: 2, 11, 14, 21, and 34.

The committee also found that there were sections of the bill that did not adequately provide for the involvement of Renewable Resources Boards or Land Use Planning Boards in the development of establishment agreements and management plans, as well as being consulted on any transmission or transportation corridors. Accordingly, Committee moved the following motions 13, 18, 19, 25, and 26.

While the committee is confident that these concerns have now been addressed in the relevant sections of the bill, it is evident that better awareness of the paramountcy of the land claim agreements needs to be developed. Therefore, the committee makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 1

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment recommends that when employing a Technical Working Group for the development of future legislation, the Government of the Northwest Territories include co-management bodies in the process to resolve any conflicts between a provision of that act and a provision found in a land, resources or self-government agreement.

Reports

The committee heard some concerns on the reporting provisions of the bill. While the committee understands the desire to be less prescriptive in the legislation, the committee does recommend that, at the very least, the management boards of the protected areas established under this act be involved in drafting those reports.

Therefore, the committee makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 2

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment recommends that any required reports on protected areas should be developed in collaboration with the management boards established under this act.

Furthermore, the committee supports the need for flexibility and coordination with other reporting that falls under the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. The committee also notes that there are similar efforts in relation to public reporting on environmental and resource management that have the potential to overlap with the public reporting contemplated in section 97 of Bill 38. For example, the state of the environment reporting proposed in Bill 39: Environmental Rights Act, the state of the environment reporting under section 147(3)(a) of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, and similar efforts. To help prevent duplication of efforts, the committee makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 3

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment recommends that any required reports should be coordinated with reports required under other legislation, notably the Mackenzie Valley Resources Management Act and the State of the Environment Report pursuant to Bill 39: Environmental Rights Act, if and when it is passed.

Public Interest

The committee heard from many members of the public that Bill 38 establishes protected areas not just for the benefit of the current population but for future generations as well. There was broad support for this bill, but many comments focused on the importance of protected areas for the future, and that the bill as originally written did not adequately reflect this need.

The committee appreciated hearing from all members of the public who made submissions during the public hearings, and worked diligently to address the broad range of concerns. The committee discussed at length how best to incorporate these issues. The committee felt amending the purpose statement was the most effective way to ensure that the future generations would be considered when decisions were made under this act, and accordingly passed motion 3.

The committee also moved motions 12 and 17 to broaden what could be included in establishment agreements and to ensure that the effects of climate change be considered in management plans.

The committee also wanted to ensure that any area nominated for candidate status be considered in a timely fashion, so as to provide certainty to all parties as to the status of that land. Accordingly, committee moved motion 7. In the event of any reduction in size or delisting of a protected area, committee moved motion 20, to ensure that any adjacent community be consulted.

Transmission and Transportation Corridors

The section of the bill that received the most comment dealt with the establishment of transmission and transportation corridors through a protected area.

Some submissions asked for amendments that would entirely restrict any corridor through a protected area, while others would have allowed for nearly unfettered access to support industrial development. The committee debated these proposals numerous times, and tried to find a balance between them. To that end, the committee moved motion 22 to ensure that prior to any approval of a transmission and transportation corridor, any potential mitigation of potential impact on the biodiversity, ecological integrity and cultural continuity of the protected area be considered. The committee also moved motion 24 to ensure that the public would have an opportunity to comment prior to any corridor being established.

Regular Meetings on Protected Areas

The committee is pleased to see the beginnings of a cooperative and collaborative relationship develop between the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, the Indigenous Governments and organizations and co-management bodies which have a role in preserving protected areas. The committee would like to see this relationship continue to grow. Therefore, the committee makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 4

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment recommends that the Minister convene regular meetings with Indigenous governments or their designated representatives, protected areas management boards, and relevant co-management bodies for the purpose of promoting cooperative and collaborative working relationships for the effective management of protected areas.

Regulations

The committee heard from numerous Indigenous Governments and organizations that they appreciated the co-operative drafting process that was used on Bill 38, and that they want to see a similar process used for the development of regulations. Accordingly, the committee makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 5

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment recommends that the Minister develop a process for engaging Indigenous governments in the development of regulations under this and other devolution related legislation.

Clause-By-Clause Review of the Bill

The clause-by-clause review of the bill was held on June 3, 2019. The committee thanks the Honourable Robert C. McLeod, Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, and members of his staff, for their appearance before the committee.

At this meeting, the committee moved 30 separate motions to amend Bill 38. These motions are set out in Appendix 1.

Minister McLeod concurred will all of the committee's motions.

Conclusion

The committee commends the Minister for his willingness to work with committee to expedite the review of Bill 38 in response to public interest and support from Indigenous governments and non-governmental organizations, and working collaboratively with committee on the amendments.

The committee thanks all those who took the time to appear before committee to share their thoughts on this legislation.

Following the clause-by-clause review, a motion was carried to report Bill 38: Protected Areas Act, as amended and reprinted, as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole.

This concludes the standing committee's review of Bill 38. However, two Members of the committee prepared a dissenting opinion of the report. I will now hand it over to Mr. O'Reilly, the Member for Frame Lake, to read this dissenting opinion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Introduction

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment was tasked with reviewing Bill 38: Protected Areas Act. Standing committee was able to reach agreement and compromises on a majority of matters. There is recognition of the strong support for the legislation from virtually all presenters in appearances and written submissions. We heard strong support for the co-drafting and co-development process, although there were significant reservations about the tight timelines used in developing this legislation in addition to concerns around the limited time to participate in Standing Committee review of the bill. Co-development of environmental and resource management legislation and regulations is consistent with the Devolution Agreement, section 35 Aboriginal rights in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the government's commitment to reconciliation with Indigenous peoples in the Northwest Territories. More is said in our report below.

We appreciate the hard work by standing committee and the Minister to significantly improve the bill by better incorporating co-management, more transparent reporting, increasing access to information and ensuring public participation throughout all aspects of protected areas establishment and management. While we support the expedited timelines to report this bill back to the House, standing committee has accomplished much of the heavy lifting that would have been done if the Technical Working Group had been given sufficient time before the Minister introduced Bill 38 into the House. It is our view that the standing committee also brought value to the legislative process through a focus on accountability, transparency, and public involvement in protected areas establishment and management.

Despite the substantial work of the committee, we believe that there are two major unresolved issues with Bill 38:

  • ministerial discretion over the nominated area process as established under section 10(2)(b) and 10(6); and
  • lack of a clear and unambiguous role for Indigenous governments and co-management authorities in regulation-making under section 98.

MINISTERIAL DISCRETION OVER THE NOMINATED AREA PROCESS

Through working with the Minister and his officials, standing committee gained a better understanding of the protected areas establishment process, including the nomination phase. While committee was initially interested in opening up the nomination phase to public participation, it was brought to our attention that previous efforts under the former Protected Areas Strategy had created high expectations but moved slowly and had some problematic features. For example, there was at least one instance where the lack of interim protection allowed third-party mineral interests to be acquired within the boundaries of a proposed protected area. We agree that the Minister thus had reasonable concerns about this happening again during the nomination phase set out under Bill 38.

Standing committee accepted this need for confidentiality around the nomination process. Some changes to Bill 38 were proposed and accepted that will better reflect a tighter nomination process that expedites the consideration of a protected area to the candidate stage. The candidate area process provides opportunities for public to be engaged on a variety of matters including boundaries.

However, there is still problematic ministerial discretion found in two places in the bill. Section 10(2)(b) requires that the Minister be satisfied that a nominated area "meets the purpose of this act and any prescribed eligibility criteria." The eligibility criteria can be set later in the form of regulations.

Section 10(6) gives the Minister unfettered discretion to reject a nomination, although reasons must be provided to the nominating party. We are of the opinion that this unrestricted discretion is unnecessary and, further, does not serve the public interest. The current ministerial discretion to reject nominations as contained in the bill does not provide sufficient accountability and could very well allow the Minister to reject nominations without shedding any light on the events that may have transpired.

We proposed amendments in Motion 8 to better define "ministerial discretion" in the nomination phase. We adopted additional circumstances, as outlined by the Minister in discussion with committee, as the basis for the discretion set out in section 10(6) and added these to the requirement criteria set out in section 10(b):

  • the nominating party has no asserted or established Aboriginal right or title in the area nominated;
  • the nomination covers all of the public land within an area of asserted or established Aboriginal right or title;
  • the nomination is frivolous, vexatious, or malicious; and
  • the nomination is solely within municipal boundaries.

While we appreciate that there is now agreement that the Minister shall consider nominated areas for candidate protected areas and interim protection, we remain concerned that there are no timelines for a decision by the Minister on a nomination. We are of the view that the nomination process should be done as quickly as possible to ensure that the integrity of the area is preserved and that the public is allowed to engage in the candidate area review process as soon as possible. The real debate and consideration of permanent protection will occur during the candidate area process set out in sections 11-13 of Bill 38. We believe that this public process at the candidate stage satisfies the public right to know information concerning proposed protected areas and allows for adequate and meaningful public participation in the process of determining a protected area.

It is increasingly common for firm timelines to be set out in many environmental and resource management statutes. For example, the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act sets out a number of statutory timelines for decisions as follows:

  • section 72.18(1) With respect to a federal area or lands outside a federal area, on an application for the issuance, renewal or amendment of a type A licence, or a type B licence in connection with which a public hearing is held, or if the board intends to consider, on its own initiative, the renewal or amendment of such a licence, the board shall make a decision within a period of nine months after the day on which the application is made or on which notice of the board's intention is published under subsection 72.17(1) or (2) [emphasis added];
  • section 72.18(3) The federal Minister shall, within 45 days after the board's decision is referred to him or her, notify the board whether or not the decision is approved and, if it is not approved, provide written reasons in the notification [emphasis added];
  • section 128(2) The Review Board shall, within nine months after the day on which a proposal is referred to it under section 125 or subsection 126(2) or the day on which it starts to conduct an assessment under subsection 126(3), complete its environmental assessment and make a report of that assessment [emphasis added]; and
  • section 137.4(4) A development certificate shall be issued within 30 days after the first day on which the Review Board has received all applicable decisions [emphasis added].

We are of the view that 90 days should be sufficient for the Minister to make a determination on a nomination and either to reject it with reasons or forward it on to the candidate review process. To remove the unfettered ministerial discretion over the nomination phase and ensure a timely decision on nominated areas, we proposed Motion 9.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn the remaining part of the dissenting opinion over to my colleague, the honourable Member for Kam Lake. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

INDIGENOUS GOVERNMENTS AND CO-MANAGEMENT BOARDS IN REGULATION-MAKING

The committee heard that there was a strong desire and need for direct involvement in the regulation-making under Bill 38 and the other post-devolution bills from virtually every Indigenous government and co-management board that presented or made a written submission as shown in the annex to this dissenting opinion. The evidence shows representations were made directly to the Minister about such direct involvement in regulation-making during the co-drafting process, months before Bill 38 was brought before the House. Some Indigenous governments suggested specific wording and precedents. These positions were represented again before the standing committee during its review of Bill 38. The evidence shows that the following Indigenous governments, co-management boards, and organizations have requested direct involvement in the development of regulations under a Protected Areas Act:

  • Dehcho First Nations;
  • Dene Nation;
  • Gwich'in Land Use Planning Board;
  • Gwich'in Renewable Resources Board
  • K'atlodeeche First Nation;
  • North Slave Metis Alliance;
  • Northwest Territory Metis Nation;
  • Sahtu Renewable Resources Board;
  • Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated;
  • Tlicho Government;
  • Wek'eezhii Renewable Resources Board; and
  • Non-Governmental Organizations (Alternatives North, Canadian Arctic Resources Committee, Council of Canadians - NWT Chapter, and Ecology North).

Involvement in regulation-making is consistent with the manner in which Bill 38 itself was developed, as a co-drafting exercise pursuant to the Intergovernmental Agreement on Lands and Resources. Co-management boards also need to be involved. They are established pursuant to constitutionally protected land rights agreements to ensure Indigenous citizens have a meaningful say in NWT resource management. Co-management boards have well-established procedures and processes that can benefit the Government of the Northwest Territories in co-developing regulations. Co-management boards also have jurisdiction over some of the matters likely to be considered in regulations. They would be expected to carry out or coordinate their activities in relation to Bill 38. Thus, it only make sense to engage them in the development of such regulations. Furthermore, it does not serve anyone's interest to allow ambiguity in legislation over the role of constitutionally entrenched bodies and potentially creates a need for judicial review to settle any lack of consistency in the co-management regime.

We believe it is prudent to ensure that all laws respecting lands and resources passed by the Legislative Assembly are consistent with the acts of Parliament and binding legal agreements between the GNWT and Indigenous governments. New laws must also seamlessly integrate into the co-management system as complementary improvements to the overall regulatory system.

Given the extensive areas left to regulations for further detail, it is only reasonable that there be a clear and unambiguous role for Indigenous governments and co-management boards in regulation-making and this must be reflected clearly in Bill 38. This is not a new precedent as such a provision already exists in the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act section 143(1):

"The Governor in Council may, following consultation by the federal Minister with the territorial Minister, first nations and the Tlicho Government, make regulations for carrying out the purposes and provisions of this Part and, in particular, regulations..."

Standing committee has not been given any form of assurance from the Minister on what process, if any, there will be in the future for development of regulations under Bill 38 if and when passed, apart from an indication that there will be a pre-consultation assessment and that all legal obligations will be met. During the clause-by-clause review, the Minister was questioned on the next steps and regulation-making. He stated that the Intergovernmental Council is conducting a lessons learned process on the co-drafting experience and that regulation-making will be one of the items discussed.

The Minister's statement during the clause-by-clause review is problematic from a number of perspectives. The Intergovernmental Council does not include all the Indigenous governments and the co-management boards that were part of the co-drafting process for Bill 38 and other post-devolution legislation. It is not clear when the lessons learned process will be completed and whether there will be any agreement on a process moving forward with involvement or engagement in regulation-making. Standing committee has had a very short window to review and recommend improvements to the bill and should not rely on an outside process for any assurance that this important issue will be resolved. In the absence of a clear and unambiguous commitment from the Minister that the co-drafting process will continue on into regulation-making, we are of the opinion that this is insufficient changes are required to the bill to meet the clear expectations and requests as seen in the evidence before the standing committee.

We proposed Motion 29 to ensure there is a defined opportunity for Indigenous governments to receive notice of regulations under Bill 38, to comment on such regulations and a requirement for the Minister to fully consider any representations received. This does not take away from ministerial authority or discretion over regulations but imposes a duty of notice. Such notice is already the practice in some jurisdictions with regard to general regulation making processes whereby drafts are published in a gazette or on-line. For clarity, this duty of notice is a discrete requirement separate from consultation which has far-reaching legal consequences and may impact the ability for swift development and changes to regulations that may be required from time to time. While the motion may not go as far as some Indigenous governments and co-management boards would like, it is at least a start and moves us closer the "cooperative and collaborative governance with Indigenous governments and organizations" as set out in the preamble of Bill 38.

Lastly, in an effort to reach a reasonable compromise, we have put forward Motion 30 that establishes express authority for the Minister to enter into agreements with Indigenous governments and relevant co-management boards as to how engagement will take place on regulations. The amendment we have proposed does not require agreements but creates authority to do so. We note that the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated indicated in its submission on Bill 38 that such an arrangement has already been drafted for future regulations under Bill 34 Mineral Resources Act. It is only prudent that there be a clear understanding and agreement on a process moving forward for the development of regulations for all post-devolution legislation. This was the promise of devolution and we have a collective duty to ensure its success.

Conclusion

We reiterate our thanks for all those who have worked very hard to bring Bill 38 forward. We eagerly await the promising start of a real conservation economy for the Northwest Territories, as represented by the passage of Bill 38. The standing committee should feel a great deal of satisfaction with the significant improvements to the bill that were achieved through collaboration between its Members and the sponsoring Minister. Our efforts in this dissenting opinion are aimed at making sure we have a well-functioning and timely nomination process for potential candidate areas.

It was our greatest hope that these matters could be resolved through the standing committee review of Bill 38 but with the accelerated timeframe brought to this process that was not possible. We also wish to continue to build the cooperation established in the co-drafting process of Bill 38 into the regulation-making and implementation, in the spirit of reconciliation and collaboration our residents expect. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 100(4) and to have Committee Report 18-18(3), Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Review of Bill 38: Protected Areas Act, moved into Committee of the Whole for consideration later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Unanimous consent granted

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 7, acknowledgements. Colleagues, at this point, I am going to call for a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Colleagues, we left off after acknowledgements. Next on the orders of the day is item 8, oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister responsible for the Status of Women. I understand that she is taking the lead today on questions about the Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry. The recommendations in this report, all 231 of them, are wide-ranging and involve almost every part of society and government. I am wondering what kind of an approach the Minister is going to take in analyzing and responding to these recommendations. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister responsible for the Status of Women.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, recognizing that I haven't read the report at all yet, what I am basing my comments on are the recommendations that I heard at the presentation yesterday in Ottawa. What I will be proposing to my colleagues is that we take an interdepartmental approach, that every department have someone on it, and we look at each for the recommendations. Not only would we be looking at an interdepartmental approach, but we also need to work nationally across Canada to work with other provinces and territories and the federal government to review them, to see what we can do independently, as provinces and territories, and also what we will be doing nationally. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the Minister for that response. The report, of course, I don't expect the Minister to have read it; it is 1,200 pages long. Even the executive summary is 120 pages. One of the things that the report is very strong about is that Indigenous people be part of developing solutions to the problems identified in the report. I would like to ask the Minister how Indigenous organizations will be involved in responding to the report and implementing the recommendations.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

We are working with the Northwest Territories Native Women's Association, so we will be working closely with them. They have been involved in the hearings. They have been involved in the inquiry from the very beginning. It would totally disrespectful for us not to include them in our work. The Northwest Territories Native Women's Association represents all Indigenous women in the Northwest Territories.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

One of the things that is really clear about this report is that the recommendations involve all of society and not only women. I am wondering if the Minister will also consider involving Indigenous governments and organizations, such as the intergovernmental council.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

I was negligent in my answer before; Native Women's will be an active partner, but we also have bilateral agreements on any issues that affect Aboriginal governments that they are part of the work that we do. We will commit to actually involving them as well.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question is, of course, this House is scheduled to break this week, and then resume sitting on August the 12th. I am wondering, by then, the last sitting before this Assembly adjourns, what the Minister will have in hand by way of a response, so in three months from now. Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

At this point, I can't really give a timeline. I would love to be able to say that we will have a report response back by the end of this Assembly. That would give me great pride as an Indigenous woman to say that. I have to respect the process. It took years for the Commission to actually come up with the recommendation in this inquiry. It would be very disrespectful of me to push this forward and have something done just because I wanted to have it in this Assembly. In saying that and recognizing that we will be working with Indigenous governments and the Native Women's Association, that we need to take the time necessary, I can't give a timeline on that. It would be the time necessary to review it, to be comprehensive, and to provide a thorough review of the recommendations and a response. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like a few of my other colleagues today, I have some comments and questions about wildfire season. Hay River is not that far from some of the major fires we have seen down in Alberta. We have had a dry winter, and we have a lot of summer ahead of us. A lot of people are concerned about what this summer is going to be like. I have some questions for the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources regarding fire smarting, regarding where people can find information and things like that. My first question is: what GNWT programs are there, or even federal programs that are available to help municipalities, Indigenous governments, even individuals FireSmart their communities and their homes? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of ENR has specific funding available each year to support communities with their FireSmart activities. MACA and communities are also able to access fuel-tax funding to support specific mitigation efforts. ENR is currently assessing other federal funding programs, which may also provide FireSmart or wildlife risk-mitigation funding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I think that those funding pots are very important. Maybe in the future we need to look at expanding them because prevention is often cheaper than cleaning up the mess that a fire can cause. I would like to know: when the fires were going on, they are still going on, I guess, in Alberta, I was looking at a bunch of different websites to try and out information about who was being evacuated, where the fires were, what the fire danger was. There are a lot of places to look, and it is not necessarily easy to find all the information. I would like to ask the Minister if he could let us know where the public can find out information from the GNWT about wildfires and other emergency situations.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

ENR has in place a variety of ways to inform the public on wildfires. Some of these include the main GNWT Public Safety and Emergency Services website, which includes links to wildfire updates and wildfire information, ENR's NWT Wildfire.com Facebook site, and @NWTFire Twitter account. The public can also email questions to [email protected] or call the NWT Fire public information hotline. One of the things we heard about of the report of the fires we had a few years ago was the government's communication and getting information out to those who are affected. I think we have taken steps to improve that. If there are more ways we could improve our communication with the public, we would welcome any comments and try and incorporate them into our ability to keep the public informed as to the fires.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

The GNWT does have a lot of good information out there. That is why I wanted the Minister to summarize it so we could know where to look. It can be difficult to pinpoint it. One of the things I would like to suggest is perhaps an app. I know Alberta has the Alberta Emergency app, which I downloaded to keep up with what was going on with the forest fires. It pushes alerts to your phone when there is an emergency. I know we have the cell phone emergency alert system that pushes very urgent messages to your phone, but this app that Alberta has pushes maybe not such critical alerts to your phone but ones that are still important. Has the department considered something like that? Have they considered developing an app because everyone has cell phones? I think it would be a great way to keep the public informed.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I think the Member's idea has got a lot of merit to it. I had heard from some family members who are living in Alberta who actually had their phones go off when they were issuing a warning on some of the smoke. That has a lot of merit. I can assure the Member and Members of this House and the public that ENR will look at a way we can incorporate that into our communication, as well, because as the Member said, everyone has a cell phone. If we could incorporate that, I think more people will be informed.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I actually have to credit the youth parliamentarian from Hay River. She brought up the idea of an app for mental health, and I have been trying to apply the idea of apps to everything, now. My last question here: I believe that, in some jurisdictions, the governments use the courts to go after people who they find out are responsible for starting wildfires. They go after them for costs. Now, I know if we go after someone who doesn't put the fire out and who starts the fire, we are not going to get the costs recouped that the GWNT had to pay to fight the fire, but it would be a good deterrent. Does the GNWT have that power, or would it consider implementing a policy like that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Again, with the number of forest fires we have had already in the last little while, I think we had about 14. I think well over 90 percent of them were caused by humans. There is a lot of merit to that. I know in the current Forest Protection Act, it doesn't have any provisions for cost recovery. However, the current act allows for the department to issue fines for anyone who contravenes the act. Currently, I think the fine is set at $1,000. The proposed new Forest Act, on the other hand, does propose cost recovery provisions similar to other Canadian jurisdictions. We are aware of that. Once the Forest Act is re-introduced and debated, we will have that provision in there. A thousand dollars does seem like a fairly low amount, which may cost the government millions of dollars to fight and put people and property at risk. It is something that the government will look at. If we need to, we will incorporate that. It is unfortunate that we have to legislate good behaviour. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you to my colleague from Hay River North for asking that line of questioning. I will be asking my questions also along those lines. My questions will be to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources. I spoke earlier today with regard to it being forest fire season. I do have a number of residents who live on Ingraham Trail. Of course, it is that time of year when they get very nervous and are concerned about their safety. Mr. Speaker, with numerous abandoned fires being found and reported on, we see this on social media, I would like to ask the Minister: has the department stepped up monitoring and enforcement of fire safety regulations on the Ingraham Trail or in all of our territorial parks for that matter? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Members bringing their questions on the fires and what we can do to help mitigate the damages done by fire because we did have a fairly dry spring. Thankfully, the last couple of days have been fairly wet weather. That should help. We do increase our monitoring efforts on the Ingraham Trail as well as throughout the NWT due to conditions that were being experienced over the past several weeks. As I said earlier, the past several days, we have actually had a very major snowfall. Plus, we have had rain the last few days in the southern part of the Territories. It has decreased the fire danger. Recognizing the fact that it may be a dry summer, we will step up our efforts in monitoring. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you to the Minister for that reply and for that commitment. That will bring some assurance to the residents of Ingraham Trail. Given the severity of the recent fires just south of us in Alberta, I would like to ask the Minister: has the department reviewed the preparedness of our, call it, fire-fighting infrastructure? Are the fire teams in place? Are they trained up? Are they ready to go?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The department is prepared and had our wildfire personnel and resources ready by mid-May. The department, we have been able to offer Alberta, the Yukon, and Parks Canada a number of resources to help fight the fires in their jurisdictions.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you to the Minister for his reply. Earlier, I talked about the inability to put a fire ban on all public lands. Has the department given consideration to the need to ban fires even outside of territorial park boundaries? Can the Minister inform us of that?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The department is constantly monitoring the conditions throughout the NWT for the need for fire bans. While the department did not initiate a fire ban, the department did initiate fire restrictions within the South Slave and Deh Cho regions during extreme fire danger conditions. These restrictions included the cancellation of any ongoing permits to burn and did not allow any new permits to burn to be issued during this time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister raised it earlier, that there might be some efforts to improve the Forest Act that could help with regard to fire bans, issuing fire bans in the future, so I would just like ask the Minister: does the Minister intend that the Forest Act, when it comes forward at the appropriate time, that it would or could give the Minister the authority to be able to put bans territory-wide on public lands?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

ENR has jurisdiction to enforce the Forest Protection Act in all forest areas in the NWT, including parks and municipalities. Many of the larger NWT communities have established municipal permits to burn. In these situations, ENR respects municipal authority. Communities without established municipal permits to burn, ENR issues the permits within these communities. So I think the short answer to the Member's question is: according to the Fire Protection Act which we operate under now we do have the ability to enforce, and I am not sure about the banning part, but we have the ability to enforce. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral questions Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you are aware, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is now managing the Western Canada lotteries program and distribution for the physical activities sport and recreation fund. During the public consultation process, the sport and recreation partners and some of the MLAs voiced their concerns about including multisport games in the funding. We felt strongly that multisport games should be paid by the GNWT and that lottery dollars should stay protected for programming which has a direct impact in NWT communities and creates positive effects on youth, elders, and residential people. Since the department has taken over, I have heard that the Aboriginal Sport Circle may have to use their funding lottery dollars to help support multisport games. My questions are for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. First question, Mr. Speaker, is: the department has cut its contribution on multisport games, and multisport games have been moved from the eligible funding of the Western Canada Lottery Act. How does the department plan to pay for the multisport games moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department is currently reviewing the intended allocations for the lottery fund, which would include disbursement to organizations as well as for multisport games. The departments and this government will continue to support the advancement of physical activity, sport, and recreation throughout the Northwest Territories. We also remain committed to funding Team Northwest Territories at various multisport games for 2019-2020 and beyond and will look to all appropriate funding mechanisms, including supplementary funding as directed during our main estimates review earlier this year.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I have an understanding there is a multisport games committee. Can the Minister tell us what their role is? What is the role of this committee?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Since the establishment of the multisport games committee, they do have a mandate of supporting and coordinating Team Northwest Territories activities with the organizations that manage these teams on our behalf. The committee is tasked with ensuring that important policies on safe sport and selection and appeals are being applied fairly and consistently to the benefit of NWT athletes, coaches, and officials. The committee also reviews and approves procurement, mission staff, and other activities as required to make sure our investment is being managed as efficiently as possible, and we will continue to work with all of our sports partners throughout the Northwest Territories.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Looking at the Arctic Winter Games and the North American Indigenous Games territorial selection process, the North American Indigenous Games are not getting the same treatment when it comes to funding from the department. Even when they asked for $200,000 for the upcoming process, the department has cut it back to $125,000. Compared to the amount that the Arctic Winter Games got of just over $364,000, why are we not treating them similarly, especially since NAIG process is one helping the small community athletes get a chance to participate at an international event?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I just want to give the Member and all Members that the department is currently reviewing the North American Indigenous games as well as the Arctic Winter Games budgets for 2020. No final decisions have been made, but I can reassure Members that at our Ministers of sports meeting with the federal-provincial-territorial Ministers throughout Canada that there was a dialogue. We did have a presentation from North American Indigenous Games council, and we are taking those into consideration, and that is something that we made an issue on, that all games need to be represented fairly with funds to make sure that athletes, coaches, and officials have the same opportunities. I will keep Members apprised of what comes out of that meeting that we had should the federal Minister give us a response.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for his answers up to this point. I greatly appreciate, and I would like to get that information out there, so I think that's great, that he has been able to do it. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am hearing that the Aboriginal Sport Circle may have to allocate any surplus funding from other programs to support NAIG. This does not make any sense, especially since the organization has earmarked the money for other programs, and I have seen other NGOs be able to earmark surplus funds for programs that they are looking forward to in future years, so can the Minister explain why this idea has been approached to this organization?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I just want to say that all of our partners who work in providing programs, sport, recreation, volunteering throughout the Northwest Territories for our volunteers is very important, and we do not take that for granted. The department is exploring various options related to funding programs as well as multisport games, and no final decisions have been made. We are reaching out to our partners. We are having discussions, especially on the sport participation activity programs that we are working on, and we will continue to work with them to come up with a final resolution. As I mentioned, I will keep the Member and committee apprised, as well as our partners, who play a very integral part in terms of how we look at allocating funding and putting funding into the programs that we provide to our youth; and not only to our youth, but our adults, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a few questions for the Minister of Infrastructure from my Member's statement. I'd like to ask the Minister: will the Minister include an all-weather road to Aklavik and a feasibility study that we can present to the federal government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Infrastructure.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member is well aware, in 2015, the Department of Transportation did a territorial-wide strategy on transportation. That strategy laid out a 25-year plan. We went out and consulted with the public of the Northwest Territories, Indigenous leaders, industry right across the territories, and in that plan, Mr. Speaker, the people of the Northwest Territories asked us to pursue six major projects, a number of them that have been successful in this 18th Assembly. The Mackenzie Valley Highway, the Slave Geological Province, the Tlicho all-season road, improved Highway No. 7 in the Member's riding of Deh Cho, dredging of the Hay River port, and a deep water port in Tuktoyaktuk.

Now, this has been a guiding strategy for us. It's led to our priorities of this government, and it's clearly a laid out 25-year plan for our transportation strategy across the Northwest Territories, and we've been successful on a number of these projects in this 18th Legislative Assembly to access funding. We can't even complete the ones that we have on the list. It's going to be very difficult for me to go forward and ask the federal government to support a road to Aklavik at this time.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

I have seen that plan. There is a lot of emphasis on the southern part of the territory. I think we should be looking more at the north here, Mr. Speaker, but that's just my feelings here. Will the Minister work with the community to identify the best possible route so that, if the opportunity ever arisen, we'll have that in place?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I will take any opportunity to sit down and discuss with the community what they believe their priority is for a road to access their community, but that's not saying that this is going to be possible in the short term. I'd advise the Member that he advise the leadership of Aklavik, if this is something they want to pursue, to certainly reach out to us so we can have those early discussions going forward. It would be a little bit premature to say that we're willing to lay out an exact route at this point because it's very complicated. There are going to be land access issues and environmental issues that would have to be distinguished on how we would do a routing on that, but we can have some early discussions of what the community thinks that they would like to see.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Will the Minister include an all-weather road to Aklavik on the red flag list that I haven't seen for some time?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I don't think I've seen the red flag list. I've got my hands full trying to deliver what we've got in the mandate to the 18th Legislative Assembly, but as I said, I'm willing to have a discussion with the community and see what their priorities are going forward.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It sounds promising. Will the Minister provide funding to the community of Aklavik to do a feasibility study for an all-season road? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

The short answer is, no, not at this point. I'd like to sit down with the community and have discussions on what they think their priorities are. I know we're working on the Willow River gravel access road at this point with the community, but I'm glad to sit down and have a conversation, but at this time, I will not commit any funding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today, I had a Member's statement on aging in place. I have questions for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation because, if the houses are ready, then we can get some homecare. It takes two departments, but today, I want to ask the Housing Corporation, I'd like to ask the Minister if the aging in place program, I guess we'll call it, is included in the housing development plans that the department or the corporation is doing across the territory? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I do appreciate the question that the Member has asked. I'm pretty sure he's referring to the community housing plans that we've been promoting throughout the Northwest Territories with our leaders in all of our communities; as he's mentioned, with the 33 communities across the Northwest Territories. Obviously, these plans will take statistical and program data, as well as information from our community leaders that I've said in this House before, as well as residents and housing stakeholders, industry, tell us what each community does really need.

In terms of aging in place, we have constructed some really good developments in Aklavik, in Fort Liard, Whati, Fort Good Hope, and Fort McPherson. We'll continue to work with our other departments such as Health and Social Services, and yes, obviously, it has been part of the plans as we move forward. The more communities, the more leadership, the more people who speak up and tell us what they need in their communities, we will be able to work with them. As I mentioned as well, we do have that co-investment fund that we made an announcement about that the NWT is able to access and work with our stakeholders to provide that funding into the communities.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

I guess the optimal method of allowing seniors to age in place would be to allow them to remain in their own homes. The aging in place program right now has a budget of $10,000. It's really difficult to keep seniors in their home long-term with $10,000 unless maybe it's $10,000 a year every year. What I see as something viable is $60 to $100,000 worth of renovations to keep the senior in their home; to extend the life of that senior's house for an additional 10 years would be ideal. I would like to ask the Minister if he would commit to looking at the budget and coming up with something more realistic than $10,000? $10,000 is not realistic to keep seniors in their own homes.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

The repair program has been highly successful in terms of program participation throughout the Northwest Territories. It is one of the NWT Housing Corporation's most subscribed programs, and the corporation will do an evaluation on the seniors aging in place program to determine whether it has been effective and, indeed, if adjustments do need to be made. We do take the Member's comments into consideration, and we will do that evaluation and see that it does need to be adjusted. Right now, it is one of our most subscribed programs, and I think it's being effective in most of our communities across the Northwest Territories.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

The $10,000 program is being rolled out. It's being promoted. Seniors are taking advantage of it, but I don't think it's allowing people to age in place. Not that amount of money, anyway. If you need to widen a hallway or put a washroom with an ability for a wheelchair to circulate, to move the plugs down to where the seniors are able to access it from the wheelchair, to put ovens up so that the oven is where you're able to slide under, there are a whole bunch of things to make houses barrier-free, and that's the idea, is to make the units barrier-free. $10,000 cannot make any unit barrier-free. That's okay. I agree that it's a well-used program, but it's just not enough money.

I would like to ask the Minister if the Minister has the data or the information or the statistics to indicate how many homeowners there are in the Northwest Territories that are over the age of 70?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

There are a couple of things there in terms of accessibility and working with our seniors and community members to address that. One of the highlights over the past few weeks was that we had the Housing Summit up in Inuvik, and we did invite the NWT Disabilities Council to come and speak, not only with the NWT Housing Corporation and the GNWT, but with all leaders across the Northwest Territories, to see how we can to fix that problem.

The information on how many owners are over 70 years old in the NWT, that information may be available through the NWT Community Survey, administered by the NWT Bureau of Statistics. It will have to be determined whether this information is readily available, but we can look into it and make sure that we get back to the Member.

I would say that one of the big steps that we have taken with the Housing Summit was having the NWT Disabilities Council come and make a presentation, be part of it, and speak with all leaders across the NWT. We had a lot of leadership at the summit to have those discussions.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess the whole concept of aging in place is to keep people out of long-term care and, in effect, save a lot of money. It is not all about saving money, but it is also about keeping people in their own communities. There are a lot of benefits. I talk a lot about the benefits of it.

I would like to ask the Minister of NWT Housing Corporation if he is prepared to start doing some work with the Department of Health and Social Services to see if there are some projects that can be done, real projects, like something where you go into a community and have four, good, viable clients that can have their houses modified. It doesn't have to be 60; you may be able to modify a house for $10,000, that is still possible, but some may take $100,000, to look for good, viable projects for people over 70 years old where their alternative would be to either be placed in another community in long-term care or in their own community, like here in Yellowknife; to see if this is viable; to prove that this is something that the apartment could do to and has tremendous economic spinoffs, including people who would be able to do the work on the units. There are small contractors, building suppliers. There is a lot of benefit to it. I would like to ask the Minister if he would consider looking at something like that with the Department of Health and Social Services before this 18th Assembly is complete. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Yes, we have already started some of that work. We are working with the Department of Health and Social Services to keep our seniors in their residences. On the other side, like I have said, we have already constructed some projects in the communities that I have mentioned. Sometimes it comes down to contractors in the communities, whether or not we can do that type of work when they are looking at bigger projects, just on the reality side, Mr. Speaker.

We have done senior aging-in-place retrofits through the Housing Corporation. We also have ongoing seniors' marketing and promotion campaigns on the programs that we deliver, so that seniors can understand what they are able to access. We are also -- and I think all Members should be aware of this, especially the small communities -- piloting LHO repair services to private residents, something that has never been done before. We will see how that works out. It is going to benefit seniors who own their own homes, who need repairs or retrofits in their homes, and we are going to see how that works. Our LHO maintenance crew can go and help them out.

As we progress with that program, we will make sure that the Member, as well as all Members, know how that program is happening. That is something new, so it is really exciting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to my Member's statement here on the importance of infrastructure growth in the NWT and, more importantly, maintaining continuity of our 18th Assembly mandate during the transition, mandate commitment 1.1.1, the Mackenzie Valley Highway, has seen, to date, 37 percent funding.

My first question, Mr. Speaker: can the Minister of Infrastructure assure this Assembly that mandate commitment 1.1.1 will be included in the Cabinet's transitional report to the 19th Assembly? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Infrastructure.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The transitional document that we are working on, myself and the Minister of Health are on the transition committee, which is made up of Regular Members and Cabinet Members. I can assure the Member that I would recommend that we put that in the report. As I have said in my earlier questioning today, it is part of our 25-year strategy for the Government of Northwest Territories and the Department of Transportation. I will reassure the Member that I will recommend that we have that in that document. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thanks to the Minister for that "yes" reply. My next question here: can the Minister provide information on whether the department is in the process of submitting a second funding application under the National Trade Corridors Fund for the highway?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

The National Trade Corridors Fund was laid by the Government of Canada. They did the $400 million carve-out for the northern territories. On the first application, we are successful in acquiring $1.2 million for the Mackenzie Valley Highway for a portion of the road, mostly for the Great Bear River Bridge, the section of Mount Gaudet from Wrigley, and the EA process of the road. On the second round of funding, Mr. Speaker, we did not submit for the Mackenzie Valley Highway, as we have to start on the work that we got the commitment from the federal government to do. Since then, the federal government has announced another $400 million Northern Trade Corridors Funding arrangement with Canada, and in this application, we don't know when the call is going to be coming it. It may be in the remainder of the 18th Legislative Assembly, and it may not be until the 19th Legislative Assembly, so I can't say if we can commit to doing that until we know the timelines around the federal government's application process.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thanks to the Minister for that reply. My third and last question is: would the Minister include that commitment into the transitional report, similar to the first question?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I will correct myself; this is Cabinet's transition document that will be going forward. I can recommend that this go into the document. As I have said, it is part of our 25-year strategy. The Mackenzie Valley Highway completion is important to all residents of the Northwest Territories, so I will commit to doing that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. On May 23rd, the Premier, in response to my questions on the carbon tax said, "The approach to carbon tax that we develop needs to be consistent with the federal backstop." I understand that the federal output-based pricing system has been clarified. The Standing Committee on Government Operations is taking the carbon pricing bills on the road next week. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Finance: can the Minister explain whether there will be any changes to the NWT carbon tax as a result of the federal output-based pricing system, and what will be the effects on our revenues, funds for reinvestment, greenhouse gas emissions, and reaching our targets? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Finance.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are planning to make relatively minor tweaks to our approach to allow the ministry to bring it in line with the federal output-based pricing system as released in July of 2018. We will continue to rebate a portion of the carbon tax paid by large emitters, and we will establish individualized trusts that these emitters can access to invest in energy initiatives. So, while the amounts have changed, the structure of our approach to large emitters remains unchanged.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I would like to thank the Minister for that. I am sorry. I missed the very first part of what he was saying, but can the Minister explain what this difference in revenues is going to be, then, for the Government of the Northwest Territories under this revised approach?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The Member would be aware that the GNWT approach is largely revenue neutral with carbon tax revenues being used to offset the impact on the cost of living and doing business in the NWT and for investing in energy initiatives. There are some administrative costs to administer the new tax and the offset program, and I do not think it would be appropriate and I will not be discussing what specific tax filers would be paying.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I want to thank the Minister for that. Is the Minister prepared to table some information for the MLAs and the public, then, about what the difference would be between the output-based pricing system for large emitters here in the Northwest Territories versus the July 2018 proposal developed by Cabinet?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The federal government, they released their further detail on the output-based pricing system in December of 2018. It was apparent from that information released by the federal government that, their final version of the output-based pricing system, there will be likely be much lower carbon tax revenues from the largest emitters under the federal system. This was confirmed by the federal government. This certainly has resulted in us looking at our approach as it does not make sense for us to place our businesses at a competitive disadvantage compared to what would happen under the federal backstop. That said, we continue to believe our general approach to large emitters is more appropriate in our northern context, but we will need to make some tweaks to ensure that we are largely consistent with the federal system.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President I want to thank the Minister for that. Can the Minister tell us when we can expect or when the public can expect to know about what these tweaks are going to be to our carbon pricing system? Let's start with that.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We will start with that, and I believe that's question number four, so it seems like we are going to end with that. We have a couple of bills that committee has taken on the road, and that is going to point out some of our approach to carbon pricing. Again, I have to ensure the members of the public that, under the federal backstop, it would be more costly to residents of the Northwest Territories, so we are going to use a made-in-the-North approach, and so we are pleased that the federal government is able to take us up on that. We have got a couple of bills that committee has taken out, and they are going to be getting the feedback, and we will have opportunities to continue to inform committee and the public as to our approach, but we feel that ours is one that is a bit more beneficial to the people of the Northwest Territories because this is an initiative of the federal government and their plan is to impose it regardless of what the jurisdictions are doing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following up on my honourable friend the Member for Frame Lake's questions to the Minister of Finance on carbon pricing, I would like to know: the federal government has announced their intention to implement carbon pricing on July 1st in provinces is territories that do not have their own plan, including Yukon and Nunavut, who will be using the aforementioned federal backstop mode. As the legislation required to enable the carbon tax is not yet passed in the House, what is the update on our own government's timelines for implementing carbon pricing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Finance.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to take the Member's question as notice.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

The question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Recently, we witnessed what transpired over the start of early spring in Alberta. We saw forest fires, and then recently we saw perhaps a weather anomaly, and that was a report of a tornado in Fort Smith. We have experienced some natural disasters up here in the Northwest Territories, including floods, so my questions are related to trying to understand just how this government works with communities in terms of preparing emergency plans. My questions are, of course, to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. ENR goes through a process of determining valleys at risk and working with communities, so my question is to the Minister: how many communities have completed their emergency plans such as evacuations? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I would just like to update Members and residents and/or other leaders across the NWT that the Emergency Management Act requires communities to prepare and approve emergency plans and programs. MACA does administer a number of activities and tools to help community governments. As well, regional offices maintain adequate emergency capacity, including emergency planning workshops and desktop emergency plan reviews. We will continue to do that. I would like to update the Member that, as of March 2019, we have had nine community governments that have emergency plans validated in the past two years and 21 community governments that have plans that are less than five years old. Since 2012, we have 31 community governments that have participated in emergency planning workshops and/or tabletop exercises to update and validate their emergency plans.

In 2019-2020, we are looking at conducting five workshops throughout the Northwest Territories, but this is a partnership-building exercise, and we do provide the services, but we do need communities to work with us and update and work on their community plans. I appreciate the Member's comments in terms of the dry season in the South Slave area.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

This government has advanced some good initiatives, including what was recently beneficial for one of my communities in the Deh Cho riding. Enterprise has stepped up, has worked with both levels of government, including ENR and MACA, to try to advance the idea of their FireSmart project, and kudos to both the local government in Enterprise and ENR, as well. I just wanted to understand whether the program in terms of the FireSmart initiative has been successful. I think it's a well-intended initiative. I just wanted to understand the role of MACA. What role would MACA play in terms of rolling out this FireSmart program with ENR? Because what we have seen in the past is we had, during the forest fire season, bulldozers create fire guards, but can we undertake FireSmart initiatives and be involved with the local government to ensure the aesthetics in the communities that have really beautiful scenery are maintained?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

As previously mentioned, our regional office engages with communities on emergency plan requirements and implementation of a process for systematic annual review of all community emergency plans. Also, as I mentioned earlier, we are looking at doing five workshops in the upcoming year. We do work with the Department of ENR, as well as Lands, and, more importantly, working with the community governments to help them update their plans and to make sure that we do a review of that. One of the programs that we have developed, and we have already had discussions in this House about, is the Small Community Employment Program that communities get funding for. I know that some communities have used that funding to do FireSmart programs. We will continue to promote this, especially when we do have a dry season.

With what is happening in Alberta and northern BC, as well as the Yukon, we have to make sure that our residents and our communities are safe.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

With the last experience in the 2014 fire season, MACA recently restructured the civil and emergency organizations that address these kinds of situations. What other changes came about because of the 2014 fire season?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

First of all, I think that we did develop a comprehensive set of guidelines to help facilitate community evacuations, should they happen, which covers anything from the roles and responsibilities of people in the community to what resources that we have. We will continue to work on that. I mentioned the statistics earlier about how many communities have emergency plans, within this year, within the last five years. We need to keep them updated, and we need to make sure that all of our communities practice their emergency plans and make sure that, in instances such as the South Slave communities, they don't get caught in a situation with evacuations.

Cross-departmentally, I think, with the government and the federal government, we would be able to make a quick response should something happen, and that is something that is always on our mind and discussed.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister did state that there are nine communities that have their emergency plans in place and that, within the year, his department is going to lead the running of five workshops to ensure that other communities complete their emergency measures planning. Could the Minister state to this House whether this is going to be given high priority? We are just seeing the onset of summer. Would that be a very high priority, working along with communities governments? Mahsi.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

There are a lot of priorities within the Department of MACA, and this is one of them, especially when it comes to the health and safety of our residents, due to the dry season that we had. Thankfully, we have been getting this rain and even the snow that is helping us out. I want to say that this is something that we will look at. We are not sure what the summer is going to look like, but it is something where we will make sure that all communities, especially in the regions that have dry conditions, we will make sure that we reach out to them and make sure that we have a plan in place with the communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Justice. In the last couple of years, I have talked about third-party reporting of sexual assaults. In this situation, the victim reports the assault and provides the information to a trained support worker who likely works for a non-profit. She then has a period of time to consider making a formal complaint to the RCMP. In October, and then again in February, the Minister said that his officials and the RCMP are exploring this option. What is the result? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Justice.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Member opposite for the question. The Department of Justice, Community Justice and Policing, and RCMP have accepted a proposal to implement third-party reporting of sexual assaults, as well as advocate review of sexual assault files closed without change. We have made progress in this very important matter. We do recognize this as a very serious issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

That is good news. I am pleased to hear that there has been this advance. Can the Minister at all elaborate on what he means by "accepted a proposal"? What kind of a proposal, and from whom?

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I thank the Member opposite again for her question. I do know that the stakeholder and public engagement is scheduled for June 11th and 12th in Yellowknife, and advocates have been invited to attend from across the NWT. That is the next step that we are taking very shortly.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

I appreciate the answer. Can I just clarify that the public engagement is around the concept of third-party reporting? Is that what the Minister is saying?

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, I believe that to be the case. I will check on that, and if that is not the correct information, then I will certainly supply it to the Member opposite.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the Minister. I wonder if the Minister could tell us about the steps following on from the public engagement. Is it likely that this third-party reporting will be in place in the life of this Assembly? Thank you.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Of course, we don't have much time left, so I am not certain whether I can make that commitment, but as I say, we are looking forward to this public engagement, which will give us direction to take next steps, I am sure. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Time for oral questions has expired. Item 9, written questions. Item 10, returns to written questions. Item 11, replies to the Commissioner's opening address. Item 12, petitions. Item 14, tabling of documents. Minister responsible for the Status of Women.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents entitled "Reclaiming Power and Place: The Final Report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls," volume 1A, in English and in French; and "Responding to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's Calls to Action: An Update on the Government of the Northwest Territories' Responses." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents entitled "Mental Wellness and Addictions Recovery Action Plan"; and "Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 716-18(3), Coerced and Forced Sterilization." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled "Northwest Territories Manufacturing Strategy 2019-2024." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Minister of Lands.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled "Northwest Territories Surface Rights Board 2019-2020 Budget." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that, on Thursday, June 6, 2019, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Great Slave, that, notwithstanding Rule 4, when this House adjourns on Thursday, June 6, 2019, it shall be adjourned until Monday, August 12, 2019; and further, that at any time prior to August 12, 2019, if the Speaker is satisfied after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice, and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. WHEREAS tabled document 442-18(3), 2030 NWT Climate Change Strategic Framework 2019-2023 Action Plan has been tabled in the House;

Therefore, I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that tabled document 442-18(3), 2030 NWT Climate Change Strategic Framework 2019-2023 Action Plan, be referred to Committee of the Whole for consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, that Bill 57, An Act to Amend the Employment Standards Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is on the table. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion carried.

---Carried

Bill 57 has had its first reading. First reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Minister of Finance.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South, that Bill 54, Standard Interest Rates Statutes Amendment Act, be read for the second time.

This bill amends various statutes to adopt a single standard interest rate described under the Financial Administration Act that will apply to GNWT receivables under the statutes. The bill is part of a larger legislative project that seeks to adopt a single standard interest rate applicable to all GNWT receivables. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 54 has had its second reading. Second reading of bills. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, that Bill 55, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1, be read for the second time.

This bill makes a number of amendments to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. These include amendments to exempt certain employees from jury service during Legislative Assembly sittings or meetings; modify the time period after polling day by which the independent commission must be established; modify the day on which a person's appointment to a commission is terminated; clarify the appointment process and tenure status of the Law Clerk and the Sergeant-at-Arms; and add an option to affirm oaths. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 55 has had its second reading. Second reading of bills. Member for Yellowknife North. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 74(2) and have Bill 55, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1, be referred directly into Committee of the Whole for consideration later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 74(2) to have Bill 55 moved into Committee of the Whole for later consideration today.

---Unanimous consent granted

Bill 55 is now moved into Committee of the Whole for further consideration.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Second reading of bills. Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South, that Bill 56, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2, be read for the second time.

Mr. Speaker, this bill makes a number of amendments to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. These include amendments to modify the oath of office sworn by Members to include specific obligations; clarify the conflict of interest regime in respect of Members and former Members; require the adoption by the Legislative Assembly of a code of conduct that establishes standards for the conduct of Members; require Members to comply with any code of conduct adopted; create the Office of Integrity Commissioner to carry out the duties of the former Conflict of Interest Commissioner as well as similar duties in relation to the Code of Conduct; clarify the obligations of Members with respect to the receipt of gifts and personal benefits; and correct inconsistencies and errors identified in the act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 56 has had its second reading. It is now referred to standing committee. Second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 38, Protected Areas Act; Minister's Statement 151-18(3), New Federal Infrastructure Agreement; Committee Report 17-18(3), Special Committee on Increasing the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly, Final Report; Committee Report 18-18(3), Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Review of Bill 38: Protected Areas Act; and Tabled Document 442-18(3), 2030 NWT Climate Change Strategic Framework 2019-2023 Action Plan.

By the authority given to me as speaker by Motion 7-18(3), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House, with Member Hay River North in the Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will finally call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee, Mr. Beaulieu?

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I committee would like to consider Tabled Document 443-18(3), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures) No. 2, 2019-2020; Tabled Document 444-18(3), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures) No. 2, 2019-2020; Committee Report 14-18(3), Special Committee to increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly Report; Bill 55, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. We will take a very brief recess, and then begin consideration of the documents.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider a series of documents. I suggest that, for expediency, we consider Bill 55 first. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. We will consider Bill 55: An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1. I will ask the Member for Mackenzie Delta to introduce the bill. Mr. Blake.

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to provide opening comments on Bill 55, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1. This bill makes a number of changes to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act to implement recommendations of the independent commission to review Members' compensation and benefits, as well as other updates required prior to the upcoming general election. Specifically, the bill proposes the following:

  • Repeals the provision to defer the territorial general election to a later date in the event of an overlap with a federal election;
  • Exempts certain Legislative Assembly staff and constituency assistants from jury service during session;
  • Ties a number of important dates to polling day as opposed to the date set for the return of the writs of election;
  • Amends the timing of the appointment and term of the independent commission to review Members' compensation and benefits;
  • Makes the appointment process for the Law Clerk and Sergeant-at-Arms the same as the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly and enables the board of management to suspend these officers with or without pay; and
  • Makes provision for the affirmation of various oaths.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This concludes my opening comments on Bill 55, and I am happy to answer any questions that members may have. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. I understand you have witnesses, so I would ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Mr. Blake, you may take your place in the hot seat. Thank you, committee. I will ask Mr. Blake to introduce his witnesses for the record. Mr. Blake.

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left, I have Mike Reddy, legislative division, and my right-hand man, Mr. Tim Mercer.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Welcome to the witnesses. I will open the floor to general comments on Bill 55 if there are any. Seeing no general comments, we can proceed to a clause-by-clause review of the bill. Committee, please open up your big grey binders. Turn to Bill 55, page 1. We will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. There are 18 clauses. I will call each one individually. If committee agrees, please respond accordingly. Clause 1.

---Clauses 1 through 18 inclusive approved

Thank you, committee. We will now return to the bill number and title. Bill 55: An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. To the bill as a whole, does committee agree that Bill 55 is now ready for third reading?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Bill 55 is now ready for third reading. Does committee agree this concludes our consideration of Bill 55?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Member from Mackenzie Delta. Thank you to the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 443-18(3): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2019-2020. I will turn to the Minister of Finance for opening remarks. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2019-2020. This document proposes an increase of $78.5 million to the infrastructure budget.

These supplementary estimates include the following items:

  • $122.6 million for infrastructure carry-overs from 2018-2019 to 2019-2020;
  • Negative $22 million for amendments to amounts and timing of the long-term care facility projects in Hay River and Inuvik;
  • Negative $13.8 million for amendments to amounts and timing of the Tlicho all-season road project; and
  • Negative $6.7 million for amendments to amounts and timing of projects included in the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Plan.

That concludes my opening remarks. Mr. Chair, I would be happy to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Does committee have any general comments, noting that we will be discussing the document in detail? Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Is this the appropriate time to ask questions of the Minister?

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

No. This is the time for general comments. We will wait until the Minister takes the witness stand with his witnesses. Are there any general comments from Mr. Testart? None? Anything from Mr. O'Reilly? Nothing? All right. I understand there are witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, please take your seat at the witness table. Minister, please introduce your witnesses to the House.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my right, I have Mr. David Stewart, who is the deputy minister of Finance. To my left, I have Mr. Jaime Koe, who is our Comptroller General, Department of Finance. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I will now open the floor once again to general comments, this time with the witnesses at the witness table. First, Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the Minister's opening remarks, he mentioned the supplementary estimates represent $122.6 million for infrastructure carry-overs. This has come up in a number of capital budget reviews, and concerns have been raised around the large amount of carry-overs. Can the Minister comment to the progress that has been made to address these concerns around carry-overs, especially large amount such as this? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I will direct this to Mr. Stewart.

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Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The issue of carry-overs is always something we are looking at. This year at $121.8 million is actually the lowest amount during the 18th Assembly. We work with departments to make sure that they have got all of the pieces in place before they put forward infrastructure requests. The average, just for the committee, for 18th Assembly was around $133 million, so it is a slight improvement. This year, when you look at the projects that got carried over from 2018-2019, there is a significant portion of them that are quite large projects. What that means in these cases is there are issues like projects timing or permitting or engagement with communities or even federal agreements. That can have a big impact on the value of the carry-overs, and I think you see that in the values that are here. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Well, I won't get too far into detail, but I mean some of these items are around records systems replacement and other information projects like that, roof repairs for the Legislative Assembly, so I mean it just seems like these are not all contingent on externalities like federal infrastructure agreements. What specific actions is the department or the Financial Management Board contemplating to address this? Is there any indication that the Minister can give at this time? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the deputy said, this is one of the lower amounts in the life of this Assembly, and we have had some federal money that we had to get out of the door. There are some projects, I mean if they go back April 1st, I think we have to put in for a carry-over. If we can get them all in a fiscal year, then that would eliminate the need. I have given direction to some of the departments in my conversations with my FMB colleagues that we need to take a close look at carry-overs, and, if projects are not in the hopper, there is nothing being done to them, if they are just carrying the money over, then we may have to look at pulling that money back and using it for other projects that are quite ready to go. Again, it's not such a bad thing to have this amount of carry-over. It means that we had a lot of infrastructure investments with the federal money and all and the money that we have. It's just getting the projects out the door has been a bit of a challenge, but I think we are starting to meet that challenge, therefore the lower amount in carry-overs. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Approximately how much of this $122.6 million is federal money? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We do not have that amount, but we will get it and pass it on to the Member. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you. You know, I think this is important to me and to others because this is money that is needed for our communities, especially for really important infrastructure projects or for citizens when it comes to making improvements to information systems, as I mentioned earlier. The Minister talked about having conversations with FMB colleagues. Is the FMB working on a clear policy direction to departments around putting parameters on carry-overs along the lines the Minister just explained, you know, if projects are not being worked on? Like what kind of formal board policies are being contemplated, if any? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nobody understands more the importance of getting infrastructure out the door in our small communities than someone who has been to every community in the Northwest Territories and heard first-hand what some of their challenges are, lived in a small community, and understands the importance of infrastructure in a small community, so I do not need to be sold on that. It's something that I always have in the back of my mind because I do recognize the importance of infrastructure in the small community. As far as direction, not yet for the actual policy, but I have given direction to my FMB colleagues that this is something that we need to have a look at. As with a lot of things in this 18th Legislative Assembly, we need to put it in black and white, have a policy to ensure that we are doing as we say. That is something that we would have to consider. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you. To be clear, I know the Minister cares about the impact this money has on communities. That is not a doubt in my mind, and certainly, the Minister's word that he is taking this seriously, he is the one who first brought this to the floor, and I commend him for it because I think that shows clear leadership and management of government resources. However, the public service cannot go on just the words spoken in this House or even in a confidential FMB meeting. They need clear direction so that, when they carry out their budgeting exercises to review their projects, they have something to follow. I think it's important that, if we are having these conversations, that it does result in a policy that allows certainty and consistency in carry-over management to the public service. Can the Minister commit to looking at that or to making a decision whether or not policy direction is required, and, if so, can the Minister share that policy direction with the appropriate standing committee? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Like I said before, I have given clear direction, and we do have regular reporting that is done to FMB. We could work on a policy, and I could give direction to our folks to start the work on the policy. I am not sure we would have it done in the life of this Assembly, but at least it's a start, and then there will be something on paper in black and white going forward. Again, recognizing the importance of infrastructure and the carry-overs, we want to try to limit those as much as possible and try to get as many of these infrastructure projects out the door. Therefore, I will have a conversation with my officials and direct them to start working on a policy that either can be considered in the last three months of this Assembly -- I do not think it's going to be that quick -- or early in the life of the next Assembly I think would be more sensible. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you to the Minister. I appreciate that, and I think it gives comfort to everyone who sees these carry-overs and is concerned. It's a step in the right direction, so thank you again to the Minister. Nothing further. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Next, Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I want to ask some questions about the carry-overs, as well. The information that was provided to us, the Minister is right, the amounts, total amounts, have gone down of the carry-overs during the life of this Assembly, but the percentage of the carry-overs as a percentage of the total appropriations has actually gone up. It looks like it has actually doubled from 2015-2016, almost, or more than doubled. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The percentages I think the Member is referring to is the percentage of the total appropriation, so that includes, obviously, that year's capital plan but also the previous year's carry-over. I think it's fairly apparent that these things build up over time, but the Member is correct that, if you look at the actual expenditures versus the total appropriations, it's typically in the range of 60, up to a high of 70 percent. In 2018-2019, it was about 54 percent, so it was a low year, but it typically is in that range of 60 to 70 percent of total appropriations that get expended in any one year. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I appreciate the commitment on the part of the Minister to develop some policy guidance around this area. In developing that policy, I guess I would hate to see that departments that really have no control over contracting/procurement, that they are going to get penalized because we cannot get contracts out the door or there is some federal funding hitch or something. Can I get some assurance from the Minister that departments are not going to get penalized for things that are outside of their control? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I can assure the Member that would be part of the policy, is we do not really want to penalize the departments, and most importantly, though, we do not want to penalize the communities and those who should be getting infrastructure. I can assure the Member that, as the policy is being developed, that is something that will be taken into serious consideration. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I appreciate that from the Minister. I guess, at the time that the Department of Infrastructure was created, it was a merging of the old Public Works and the Department of Transportation. There was some significant moving around of people. A number of jobs were lost. I am just wondering whether that merger is, in any way, related to the percentage of carry-overs that has continued to grow. Is there any link between staff reductions and our ability to procure and get the money out the door? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't believe there was. As we have said before, a lot of these projects that are coming out the door are large projects that require a lot of work, and there is a lot of engagement that needs to have taken place at project time, engagement with communities, as the deputy pointed out before.

I believe that, with the amount of dollars that has been poured into the Northwest Territories over a little while, it has been a bit of a challenge getting a lot of these projects out the door, but I think that we have the capacity to do so. I think that, as we go forward, you will start seeing the number of carry-overs start to come down. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think that is what we all hope for. I would like to make a suggestion, then, to the Minister, that there be some way of measuring performance or the capacity aspect of the Department of Infrastructure in, basically, getting the money out the door. Is that going to be part of the consideration of developing this policy, some monitoring or tracking of capacity and our ability to get money out the door? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can commit that we will monitor all departments to ensure that they are getting projects out the door in a timely fashion, and if there is a reason for them not to have, then it will be part of the reporting process, and we will keep all those concerned up to date. I will make a commitment that we will work with all departments to ensure that projects are timely and out the door. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think that it is important to work with the departments, but we also need to be aware of what our contracting procurement capacity is within the Department of Infrastructure to get these projects out the door.

I guess that the last thing that I want to say is that in no way am I questioning the dedication or work that our employees do; I just want to make sure that we have the resources and that they have the resources to get the job done. I appreciate the commitments made by the Minister and look forward to us not having as much carry-over in future years. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. No comments from the Minister. I will call a brief recess.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we were having general comments on the bill. Next in line, we have Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, too, want to talk a bit about the carry-overs. I just would like to ask the Minister if there was a way to spend this money. If this is a small amount, like the deputy said, this $122 million is one of the smaller that was carried over, even based on this $122 million of a carry-over, had that been spent, it would have a lot more buying power than it would be next year. I would like to ask the Minister if there is, aside from directives, if there is some sort of a physical plan to address the carry-overs? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. All of this money that we talk about here is earmarked for specific projects. I think I pointed out a couple of times the reason for some of those projects not getting out the door. I have directed FMB and my colleagues that we need to take a serious look at some of these carry-overs, and, if there are smaller projects that are just not being done, then we may need to look at pulling that money back and trying to reallocate it to projects that we have a better chance of getting done. I think they got the message, and it's a message that I think we need to continue to push going forward. That way, we can limit the amount of carry-overs because, if there is a chance that a particular department can lose some money that is not being spent and put it back in the kitty for other projects, then they may try to get the projects out the door a little sooner. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier during question period, an honourable Member of the House asked about what was referred to as red-flag projects, that the red-flag projects would be projects that would be ready to go out the door so that, if the departments are unable to get the projects completed and they are getting carried over, there is carry-over year after year, and just by inflation alone on a carry-over of this type we are losing a couple of million dollars, just on inflation alone. That is because we lose buying power every year. If inflation is 1.8 percent, like I think it was last time, this carry-over would cost us $2.1 million, so in order for the government to be more efficient. Of course, a key thing would be that these projects are desperately needed or other projects where money is actually being spent in the community instead of the money being carried over, I would like to ask the Minister if there is such a thing left as what used to be referred to as red-flag projects or projects that are ready to go when other projects are unable to get off the ground. I would like to ask the Minister if red-flag projects still exist. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understand is the red-flag projects are ones that are next in line for some of the infrastructure money. Some of them could eventually turn out to be multi-year projects that would have some carry-over of their own. If you look at the amount of carry-over with the money we have now, there are some big projects here, Stanton hospital, for example. I think there is about $15 million towards that, and then there are a couple of other ones, Inuvik correctional and some other bridge rehabilitation projects and that James Creek highway camera. They are all carried over, so those are all ones that are in the hopper, and the planning is being done. If we can get all of those out the door before the end of this fiscal year, then I think we will put a dint in the amount of carry-overs that the folks in the 19th Assembly would have to deal with. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister through his department could start looking at carry-overs in two allotments, one of some of the projects that he just spoke of like the hospital. I am sure nobody wants to see the money taken away from the hospital when it's almost complete, but there are also projects that have not started at all. I was wondering if the Minister could identify how much of this $122 million is on projects that have not started at all. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I would have to get the specific information, but, my initial thought, that would be a very small amount. I will try to get the information as to projects that have not been started. Because I do know, when we did go through the list with the specific departments to FMB and I had listed some of the projects, it came to a very small amount, but it still was a carry-over that we were concerned about, not including the larger carry-overs which are multi-year projects that we need to continue to fund. I will look to get that information and pass it on to Members. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no further questions on this. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on the list, we have Mr. McNeely.

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Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments in regards to the carry-overs, living in a seasonally accessed area, I can see the rationale behind always having carry-overs, and I am quite satisfied to understand carry-overs. Carry-overs could be carried over for a number of reasons, seasonal access, for example. Most of our projects are accessible when the ground is frozen. Then, in summertime, most of the ground is suitable for compaction. So those are additional factors here that would substantiate carry-overs, and I am quite satisfied to receive an explanation on the justification of carry-overs, but, outside of that, I think we will always have, this government will always have carry-overs and, I think, has had, in the past, carry-overs, just because of the environment that we live in. Most of our communities are remote. Some of them are only accessible by barge.

In some of the Sahtu cases, we have a combination of three communities that are accessible both by the river and by winter road, so the logistics of mobilizing in preparation for a project is critical at best here. If you miss the boat, you miss the boat. That means you are going to have to carry-over to the next seasonal suitability for the project. Those are my comments on that, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. McNeely. Those were mostly comments. Thank you. Next, we have Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like most of the Members here, I also have concerns about the number of carry-overs.

Right now, the economy is slow. Everyone feels it. It has been getting slower and slower throughout our term here. People who are just trying to keep their businesses going, who are trying to keep people employed, keep telling me that there is nothing going on, and they are having trouble keeping people employed. I say, "Well, we have this coming up." "We have this long-term care facility coming up." "We have a fish plant coming up." I keep saying that, and now I question myself when I keep saying that, because these are the kinds of things that keep getting pushed back and pushed back.

This work is needed now. My concern is that, if we keep pushing it off to the 19th Assembly and to the 20th Assembly, we are not going to be able to complete these projects, because our financial situation is not going to get better. Everyone knows what the financial outlook for the territory is, and it is relatively bleak. What we need to do is ensure that we get these projects done now, so that we can keep people employed now, and we can get this infrastructure while we still have the cash to do it. I have a feeling that these are just getting pushed off, and eventually they are going to get dropped. A lot of these are important projects.

I just wanted to throw that in there. I won't take up too much time. No further comments. I don't expect a response. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. I will give an opportunity to the Minister, if he wishes to reply.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member's comments, and we do agree to a certain extent. We did put out $202 million in infrastructure last year, and I share his concern about some of the work that needs to get out, though, as I said before, we won't be able to get all this work out, because, coming from an area that has seen the slowdown in the economy, I know the importance of trying to get these projects out the door. I think it is a message that I have been giving to my FMB colleagues. As much carry-overs as we have, we still spent $202 million in infrastructure, but point taken. His point is well-taken. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Any further comments?

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Next, we have Mr. Blake.

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just two comments here. A lot of times, it has to do with planning. A good example is, in our riding, I am sure the Minister knows, a lot of times you have to make sure that you have all of your supplies in the first week of June or maybe even April. That way, you have all of your materials as soon as the weather is good in June to start building.

A lot of times, these contracts come out, and they are coming out in June, closing mid-July, and then you don't get your material by August. There is usually a lot of rain that time of year. I would really appreciate it if a lot of the departments started putting out contracts earlier. We get new money on the 1st of April. By the end of April, a lot of those contracts should be out, to take advantage of our building season. I keep a close eye on what contracts come out, and I think that that would help a lot in our planning.

I know that we are having a lot of issues with climate change nowadays. We have to take that into consideration. Are the Minister and the department noticing that climate change is actually having a little bigger of an impact on our building and how we do our planning nowadays? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There was a time a few Assemblies ago when the capital budget used to be debated almost at the same time as the operations budget. There was a decision made at the time to move that to October, and the reason for that was so that the departments could get their contracts out and possibly awarded before April 1st; that way, they can have everything they needed in the community. We have seen a couple of good examples. I will use an example in one community where the contract was awarded; it took them all summer to get their material in. I think that construction started on November 1st or 2nd, and automatically there was a cold weather clause in the contract that kicked in, which added a few dollars onto the contract. The decision was made at the time to do the capital budget in October with the intent of having all of the contracts and all of the supplies, everything, awarded, taking advantage of the ice roads if there was an opportunity to do so, and get the material into the communities.

I think, for the most part, it has worked. There is still a bit of a challenge in trying to get some of these contracts out. Again, we need to keep reiterating with the departments that you need to get the contracts out, or there will be consequences. I think that is a message that needs to keep being preached going forward, and eventually it will just become a part of everyday business to make sure that we have all of these contracts award.

To the Member's point about climate change, I think that we have seen that in some of the delivery in the last boating season. Actually, I was just out the other day; it was June the 1st, and already the water on the Mackenzie was the lowest that I have ever seen it in the springtime. That indicates to me that we might be facing a bit of a challenge in our supply. There are a number of different factors that come in, but I think that one of the reasons that we changed the date to debate the capital budget was to get these projects out the door and take advantage of the winter. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Further, Mr. Blake?

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I might just have to pass that information on about all of the planning to some of the newbies, the new Ministers there. They have been trying to make sure that everything was in place for this season, and we are down to the wire here. I was hoping to have all of that in place by the first week of April, but it just didn't happen once again. I am hoping that, for the next budget, all that should be in place.

You just mentioned earlier that our shop up at James Creek is patiently waiting. There are a lot of discussions around that, about the location, but I am hoping that we do have a solid location now. For the safety of our residents and tourists that travel the highway, we need to make sure that we are situated in the right place. I am just looking forward to this project moving ahead, then. That is all I have for now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. For some of the projects that we have in some of the communities, we deal with the Aboriginal governments of the area, and sometimes they have some concerns as to which location they want something to go.

A bit of a challenge with the dynamics of the political landscape in the Northwest Territories that we deal with a lot is, I think, if we were a jurisdiction that just decided that we are going to let a contract, and it doesn't matter where the contractor is from, just award it based on low price, we could be done with it, but we try to accommodate and work with our Aboriginal governments and our Northwest Territories businesses as much as possible to try to find ways that they can procure the work, and we continue to do that. Sometimes there is a price to pay; maybe a little bit of a delay in trying to get that done. If you are trying to negotiate a contract, there is going to be a bit of a delay trying to get that done. If it is the price you have to pay for trying to accommodate Northwest Territories residents, businesses, and citizens, then it is the price we will pay.

Again, though, your point is taken, and I think that we need to work with our departments to try to get these contracts out the door as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Blake.

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minster's response reminded me of something that used to be practiced a number of years back. I remember looking at some contracts and seeing in the description that the lowest price is not necessarily selected. I think that is important to have in there because, a lot of times, it is like they say: you get what you pay for. A lot of times, I have seen contracts that come out, which is the normal practice now, it seems the lowest price gets it, but they can't finish the work or after they get midway through, they realize, "We underbid this and now we need some add-ons here."

I have seen contracts that have been awarded that have almost doubled. I think that is something we need to take a look at and ensure that we don't always go by the lowest bid. The department already knows what they budget for each project. With a good plan with these tenders that come in, what is pretty close to what we bid should be really accepted because we have to get out of that taking the lowest bid all the time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I tend to agree with the Member. I have seen cases where they have given it to the lowest bid, and the first thing they do is come back for a change order to try to get them back up to the second-lowest bid. You are absolutely right. You get what you pay for. Sometimes, politically, it is always easiest to go with the low bid. We use an RFP process, and in some cases, I have seen RPF processes that have worked where you could look at other factors besides the price, then you can make a determination based on the information provided. I think you get a better-quality product going that route.

There are still going to be cases where tenders are going to be let, and there are going to be prices coming in. As we deal with it more and more, I think you are going to see less and less of the absolute lowest price not necessarily hitting the work and having to come in and clean up after them afterwards. I think we have taken some steps to ensure that doesn't happen. I know, in some of the portfolios I have held, we have had some cases of that. We have tried to take steps to ensure that those don't happen too often. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Next, we have Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister probably answered a lot of what I was thinking of during the last speaker. Thinking about contracts and thinking about our government over the last three-and-a-half years, it seems like we are moving towards a lot of social programs. That is great, but we also need to look at climate change, as the previous speaker mentioned. I think we are going to have to develop or become a little bit more agile. Agility within the government is probably a good thing.

Ways to work in that manner is likely partnering with industry. I think that is what we might need to do moving forward. Industry has proven themselves to be capable and sometimes not accountable. It is a hit-and-miss all the time with smaller contractors, but I think, looking forward, we need to try to form ourselves so that we can knock off these projects and look ahead. I am thinking of my region in the next couple of years with all the attention up in the Arctic and all the other Arctic states being more and more prepared, like Russia, building 15, 16 deep-sea ports and all these ice breakers.

We need to align ourselves with the federal government, as well, too, when it comes to deep-sea ports, small-craft harbours, and other infrastructure along the Arctic coast, maybe even dumping stations for ships that are traversing the Northwest Passage. Those are things that we don't see on some of these papers every day in the general public, but I am sure they are in the government's eyes and ears every day. I think that needs to show itself a little bit more and more. I know that it is hard to plan projects.

The Inuvialuit recently had some direct funding from the federal government, but it also takes the GNWT to implement the spending and the control, the maintenance and everything when it comes to that. It is great that we get direct funding, but we need to partner with the GNWT, as well. I think, no matter how much we plan ahead, we are still going to run into ice jams and forest fires and all that stuff. I think the department is doing their best. It is a harsh environment to operate in. It is not like we can jump on a plane or jump in our vehicle and fly out every day. It is actual long-term planning.

I think, when it comes to that, we need to work more closely with maybe the MLAs and maybe the Indigenous governments in the regions to better plan so that we can use our money more effectively and keep ourselves accountable as MLAs and as a government and also Indigenous governments. I think, once we challenge each other, we can become more agile. That is what I was going to say. The previous speaker asked the right questions, so I don't really have much more to say than that, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. More of a comment. Nothing from the Minister. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I have to follow what Mr. Blake has talked about, about lowest price isn't the best option. I like what the Minister talked about with the RFP process. I think we need to be looking at the economic benefit to the Government of the Northwest Territories and the region. Sometimes, the cheapest prices might save us money with infrastructure, but income support and people not having jobs passes a barrier onto us. Would the Minister encourage the department to start looking at that type of process as we move forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will look at any process that will help us to improve our ability to get projects out the door, get quality contractors bidding on them, get quality prices. I think we are more than willing to look at any ways that we can help improve that. Again, I have seen cases where contracts have been given to the lowest bid, and you get exactly what you pay for.

I think, if there is value in using an RFP process more and more, then I think that is one that we need to have a look at because there is a lot of work that goes into an RFP and there is a lot of information that you have to provide. If you are going to take the time to provide the numbers and all the information that is required in an RFP, then obviously you are going to take the time to do some quality work once you are the successful bidder on the contract. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister talked about "we pay for what we get" sometimes. I have seen projects where we had to go into the company's insurance to pay for the work that's being done. What happens to those contractors who don't do a good enough job? Are they able to bid on the next project? It concerns me that we see some people who bid on contracts and don't do a great job. Then we have to have somebody else come in to do it, or we have to tap into the insurance to pay for it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think I need to be perfectly clear before I respond to the next question. It is not as widespread as we are making it sound, I guess. It is not as widespread. We do have cases of situations like that. I think it is getting less and less as people become more and more accountable and we are more and more accountable for public funds. I think it is getting less and less. I think we have learned some lessons, so we have kind of tightened it up a bit.

We have to be careful, though, when folks are wanting to bid on a contract. We have to be careful. We have to be very critical because I know there might be some legal issues. We need to be very careful. I think, going through an RFP process, again, if we use that a bit more, then past performance, I think, might be something that we could look at. We need to be careful. I just wanted to make it clear that it is not widespread. We have cases. We have all seen them. I think, as this government matures, we are seeing less and less of that. That is a good sign.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree with the Minister. It's not widespread. I just know that I have seen some of it happen, and it is a concern for me if those contractors are able to bid on future stuff. The Minister talked about consequences to the department not getting jobs done. I guess I agree with you, but I have a concern with that. That is the employment going to that community, and so, when we are talking about consequences, is there some way that we can work with the community to be able to move forward? Because I sit there and I see the consequences, and I see these numbers, and I wonder why we are not being able to complete things. Again, the consequences are, say a trail in Fort Simpson, if that is what the territorial government is doing on the parks, it does not get done, and we take that money away, that trail does not get done. That means there is employment and enhancements there. How are we going to be able to ensure the consequences are fitting moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If they could not get a trail done in that particular community, then they do not deserve to get paid. However, we have to be careful when we look at this. Again, I was talking about the department, not the communities themselves. We will make every effort to ensure that the employment still gets into the community, but some of these smaller projects in the community and some of them are community driven, then they have the ability to get the work done there as quickly as possible. I mean, when I talk consequences, I am not talking communities. I understand the effects of employment in the communities as well as anybody in this building. I am a firm believer in trying to create employment for the citizens of the Northwest Territories. When I talk consequences, I speak of the finance Minister's dealings with his colleagues on FMB. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, and I greatly appreciate that answer from the Minister. Now I understand what he means by "consequences," so my thanks for that. In regards to forward thinking and dealing with isolated communities, whether it be winter roads or barges, has the government looked at spending money before the fiscal year; in other words, if we are looking at 2020-2021 and it's on the winter road, we do the 2019-2020 to get the stuff shipped up so that when the project is ready to go or the money, like when we get the money for the fiscal year 2020-2021, we are able to do the job? Have you guys looked at that potential? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The whole idea of having the budget cycle, capital budget cycle, in October was to give an opportunity to approve the capital budget for the following fiscal year that takes effect April 1st. That gives them the winter to plan, and they could possibly get their materials and everything ordered that winter. I think the actual approval of the money takes effect on April 1st, but that is not to say that they cannot start awarding the contract and spending the money before then. That is why we tried to have the capital budget in October, was to get away from having it approved April 1st and then it takes them a couple of stuff to get all of their stuff ordered, and then it takes a couple more months to get it here, and then it's November by the time they start building, and then, as I said before, 10 percent cold weather clause kicked in and it was quite lucrative. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I am just trying to see, find an alternative for the winter roads and the barging season, and I am trying to see how we can help people move forward. With this process, is the government willing to guarantee, if a contractor gets awarded the contract, that they are guaranteed, that they can go get the money from the bank? Do they allow that? Do they sign, guarantee, give a guarantee letter that they got the contract, that they can spend the money? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was trying to get them to try to spend the money before April 1st, but apparently I can't, so I want to clarify that. We do have it approved, and they can start all of their planning and everything and all of that if there are ways. If they know they are going to be awarded a contract April 1st, I think if they have their own means, then they could possibly do some of the planning. My understanding, and I stand to be corrected, is that they cannot start spending the money on the contract before April the 1st, so there you go. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my thing is that I know the government is not spending anything, but, if a contractor gets a contract, can they not get a letter saying, "You got the contract"? Can they not start getting the supplies in? Because, if we are looking April 1st, the winter road is closed, and then all of a sudden we are looking at January next year, you know, and then that 10 percent clause kicks in, so is there something available for contractors to be able to do this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Thompson's time has expired, but I will allow the Minister a brief response. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If the contractor is awarded the contract, then they know it's going to take effect April 1st. The suppliers would then know that we have a contract in place and that April 1st they can start collecting money on the contract, or, if the contractor has the means to go and get the material he needs, knowing that he has got a contract that is taking effect April 1st, then there is no reason they can't do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Any further general comments? I was getting worried we would have to carry these over for another year if this went on any longer. Committee, let's get into the detail since we have exhausted general comments. Please turn to page 6 of the Tabled Document 443-18(3). Infrastructure, operations expenditures, page 6 of the Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2019-2020, the Department of Infrastructure. Do we have comments on the department, noting that we will be going through each activity individually? Seeing no general comments for the department, I will begin calling the department. If there are comments or questions about an activity, please let me know. 2019-2020 Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, Infrastructure, operations expenditures, asset management not previously authorized, $775,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Infrastructure, operations expenditures, programs and services not previously authorized, $3.3 million. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I just want some clarification on the Fort Simpson liquefied natural gas. It's minus $125,000. Could we just get an update on that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is just a question of cash flow, so they are just adjusting the cash flow on that project to adjust to what their expected spending is now. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further. Next, we have Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am just looking at the bottom line of -- am I on the right page? I am looking at the Sachs Harbour wind/diesel power plant, $1.85 million. Can the Minister elaborate on that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

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Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, that is an issue of timing. I think the expectation is that they will be expenditures in 2019-2020, and then the project is likely to carry on into 2020-2021. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Nothing further, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Infrastructure, operations expenditures, programs and services, $3,300,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Infrastructure, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $4,075,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Turning the page to the Legislative Assembly, Office of the Clerk. Comments or questions? Seeing none, I will call this page.

Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized, $127,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $127,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Please turn to page 8. Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, culture of heritage and languages, not previously authorized, $605,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Education, Culture and Employment, early childhood and school services, not previously authorized, $3,117,000. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Charles Tetcho School addition in Sambaa K'e for $585. Could I get a little bit of a clarification on that matter? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

That's $585,000? He said $585. It's for six books.

---Laughter

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Through you, Mr. Chair, I would like to defer that to the Minister of Education.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Would the Minister of Education care to respond? Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not going to try to say the name. The school actually had some outstanding deficiencies that we needed to get done, and so the final inspection is actually planned for this month in June. Once the final inspection is done, we are expecting it to be open. We are expecting it to be open by the end of June, July. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. End of June or July, so we are not going to be seeing the students in that school, except for the community assembly building that they use as their little small gym? Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Cochrane.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like I said, the inspection is being done in June for health and safety. I will not allow any children into any school building unless the building is deemed safe. I am afraid that, no, students will not be allowed until the final inspection is done and the school is deemed safe for all children to enter. At that point, then I will allow it to be open. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am thankful that the Minister is safe, but again, this has been going on for a few years. I appreciate the answer.

My other question is the Diamond Jenness Secondary gym door installation of $26,000. Could the Finance Minister or the Minister of Education further elaborate on that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5761

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Through the Minister of Finance, I will ask him to direct this. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will follow your instructions. They will come through me, and I will direct it to the appropriate Minister through you. I would like to direct that to Minister Cochrane. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Cochrane.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Diamond Jenness Secondary School gym door should be installed in the fall of 2019. That will be when it is completed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. Could the Minister elaborate on why it is costing us $26,000 to put in a door? What type of door are we putting in? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. When some of these projects were let out, I know that it says a door for $27,000, so automatically the question comes up: $27,000 for a door; is it made of gold? I have heard that statement before.

There are some other issues with it. There could be site prep. If the Member wants a detailed description of the work that is going to be done, I am assuming that there is going to be a ramp that will be done as well as part of that. I know that there is some cause for concern, but I can assure that we are not going to pay $27,000 to put in a solid door. There are some other issues that are involved with that.

I am not sure if the Minister of Infrastructure wanted to add on to that. Okay. Can I go through to the Minister of Infrastructure? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. When I answer this, we are going to get even more questions. The original intent was to install the door there, and the money was spent on the planning project. The project expanded to include a ramp, a door, and a mudroom now, for a total cost of $450,000, halted due to budget issues and to revise scope. ECE is adding small capital funding for 2019-2020. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Anything further, Mr. Thompson?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. Just to clarify, it is the door plus the structure stuff? Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

That is correct.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Anything further, Mr. Thompson? Nothing further from Mr. Thompson. Next, we have Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am looking at Mangilaluk School renovation and addition in Tuktoyaktuk for $561,000. I just want to hear a little bit on that. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a multi-year project. The revised budget was $1.3 million. I think that there was an amount recommended of $561,000. That is what you have seen here. The construction contract is anticipated to be awarded in August-September 2019, and anticipated occupancy is summer-fall of 2021. Project end date is summer of 2022.

I believe that I did supply a bit more detail to committee during our deliberation of the supplementary estimates. Maybe committee can correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that I supplied a table to committee with some substantiation for many of the projects that we are debating today. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nakimayak.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Nothing more, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. There is $1,922,000 in junior kindergarten upgrades. We have had kids in junior kindergarten now for probably two or three years. I am just wondering why we are not able to spend this money so that the kids have proper facilities. We have had JK now for two or three years in some communities. What is going on? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is that a lot of this is for playground equipment. Again, my understanding is that a lot of this has been delivered to the communities, and work will commence during the summer season. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think that I am probably looking at the same table as the Minister. It looks like some of these communities are not going to get their playgrounds completed until 2021. Why is it taking so long to get this work done? Why can't this stuff be shipped up this summer and the work finished this fall? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5762

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod has indicated that he would like Minister Cochrane to take it. Minister Cochrane.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We had made the assumption that all the playgrounds would actually be done when the junior kindergarten facilities were done. We had some issues when we were doing the washrooms in schools, et cetera, so it became a bigger project. We focused a lot on the washrooms, getting the rooms ready, which put us a little bit behind with the playroom toys. Most of the schools in the south actually have their playgrounds in place. These are mostly for northern communities. We're looking at barging things in, getting things in, structures, winter roads, et cetera. We are expecting a lot will get done this summer, but some of our more northern isolated communities might have to wait for winter roads, et cetera, to get the equipment into.

We are trying to get this done as soon as possible. It's a priority for us. It's a priority for the students. We recognize that. We do have to state that the children are isolated. Schools are making every effort. Some of the schools in our northern communities are actually dividing it so that if the children, the older children are in the playground at certain hours, then, the younger children, the JK students are actually using that playground facilities at a different recess break. They're trying to accommodate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Sorry, I just don't understand what the problem is. I've raised this now, I think, probably three years in a row while I've been in here, and I just don't know when this work's going to get done. It's all about kids. Thanks.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We understand it's all about the kids, and we recognize that. Doing business in the northern part of the territories is not as easy as doing business in the southern part of the territories. There are sometimes delays that take place, not like you get something up here in a couple of days. I've experienced it firsthand. I've seen a lot of communities experience it firsthand, and I take the Member's point. It is going a little longer than he would like, but I mean we've got to recognize that doing business in the northern part of the territories is a lot different than down here, and we'll continue to try and get these playgrounds and whatever work needs to be done in place because we recognize as well as anybody in this building that it's all about the kids and grandkids. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, early childhood and school services, $3,117,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, labour development and advanced education, not previously authorized, $258,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $3,980,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Page 10. Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, forest management, $1,517,000. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Can the Minister explain the incident response standby facility for Fort Liard for $400,000? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. My understanding was that there was a plan and a floor design developed for a modular structure, and there was some technical design done. A tender was issued and the bids that came in were too high, so they're going to have to retender that and see if they can get a competitive bid to do the work. That's my understanding of the status of the project. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. Thompson. Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, forest management, not previously authorized, $1,517.000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Water management and monitoring, not previously authorized, $300,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Wildlife, not previously authorized, $1,271,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5763

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $3,088,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 11, Finance. Capital investment expenditures, information systems shared services, not previously authorized. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. In the 2019-2020 O and M budget, I think we transferred about 60 or 70 employees into this ISSS. Now, there's about $7.5 million worth of projects going to be transferred into this new entity. Can someone explain, how do you explain? I'll just pick an example here. An archival information management system which is presumably over at the museum, how do you transfer that to Department of Finance? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The information systems shared services unit is the unit that's responsible for building these systems and working with contractors on occasion to build them as well, so it is building the actual information systems, the computer systems, if you like, to do all of these various functions. The staff did get transferred at the start of this fiscal year into the new shared service unit. What this appropriation is requesting is the project dollars, the capital dollars, for the projects that were funded for 2019-2020 to be moved up from the originating department into Finance as well. There's a lot of governance in place on these projects to make sure that you're working with the user community, to make sure that the departments that are listed are getting the information in the systems that they need. The actual computer coding and the day-to-day development activities before it goes live is taking place in finance now, so this is transferring that budget to spend the money that's needed on software and licensing and those sorts of things into Finance. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think the deputy minister hit the nail right on the head. I am very concerned about moving the capital associated with these projects into a different department than the ones that these systems are actually meant to serve. How do we ensure that say, something like the archival information management system is going to be as responsive as the archives might need when the person's been transferred to Department of Finance. Now, the money for the capital project is sent over there. Any time any change has to be made, somebody from museum's got to pick up the phone, or go over and visit somebody at the Department of Finance to get the system fixed. Is that how this is going to work? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. This is the developmental activities to a large extent, but there is also the care and maintenance side of it as well. That's not unusual that the person working on a system wouldn't necessarily be sitting in the building. I think in the case of the museum systems, for example, the unit that used to support that was in Lahm Ridge Tower, so there was always a geographic distance if you like between them.

I think what the new unit is to take some expertise that was sprinkled all around the government where we had a lot of generalists who were trying to do a lot of things, whether it was around things like data management, websites, interfaces with other systems, those sorts of things, all trying to do it by themselves. Pooling the expertise so that we can draw on that expertise, so if it's website, there's a team that helps with that. If there's an issue around things like transactional for financial type information, we have a team that does that. I think what you'll see in terms of performance is we should be able to deliver these systems more on time, more consistency across government, greater career paths for those in the system, and hopefully with zero impact on the actual user community which we'll see at the end, a better product. That's what the intent is. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I understand what the intent is, but what kind of system do we actually have in place to measure performance? Is there an evaluation framework for this ISSS in place? Is there an evaluation framework? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5764

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The framework is being developed. It start on April 1st, the system, so I'm ensuring that the staffing is all completed and office space is dealt with, and those sorts of things. The framework, I think, has to look at a performance framework, look at not only information systems but the IT systems and those sorts of, because they all work together. That's being developed. All of them have their own performance measures, but I think we want a better integrated system so that the public, the GNWT staff that are the clients of this unit, as well as the Members can be provided information that supports that this is working better. I think that is what the Member's question is: how do we know things have gotten better? So we need to have performance measures that demonstrate that. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can I get a commitment out of the Minister to share that framework with, I guess this would probably have to go to Standing Committee on Government Operations that oversees finance? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thanks, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, Mr. Chair, we will.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. O'Reilly. Finance, capital investment expenditures, information systems shared services not previously authorized, $13,013,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Finance, capital investment expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $13,013,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Health and Social Services, beginning on page 12. Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, administrative and support services not previously authorized, $17,373,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Community health programs not previously authorized. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister elaborate on the Woodland Manor expansion in Hay River for $90,000? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Chair, through you, I would like to defer to the Minister of Infrastructure, Minister Schumann.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The protect is substantially completed as of March 2019. Targeted completion is spring of 2019. Carryover is requested to address seasonal deficiencies. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So my next question would be about the health centre replacement in Sambaa K'e. It's $214,000. Could the Minister please expand on what that is about? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. So this, as the Member would know, is it a relatively large project. I believe the budgets originally was around $2.7 million. About $2.5 million of that has been expended. The target completion is this summer, so this is just to get that last little bit to finish it off, is my understanding. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. So it's just some are deficiencies and yard work or ground work and stuff like that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. It's just to finish off some of the work that needs to be done. As to the actual scope of the work, I do not have that level of detail, but we have money allocated to do maybe some of the deficiencies that need to be done, some of the seasonal work. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you very much for that answer.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5765

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Community health programs not previously authorized, negative $5,013,000. Does committee agree? Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

I have a question that relates to page 13. There seems to be a delay here in the timing of the long-term care bed facilities in Hay River and Inuvik, and I am wondering what the knock-on effect is for projects that were scheduled to go after these two. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I would like to defer the question to the Minister of Health.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. These projects remain a priority for the Department of Health and Social Services and the Government of the Northwest Territories. As we got into it, there was definitely indication that there is a lot of interest in working together on this project with different stakeholders, but we had to do some initial work up front to determine costing. That work, the RFPs were released in May. It has taken a little longer than anticipated to get some of the up-front work done through these contractors, and we felt that it was not reasonable to expect that we would complete these projects or kick these projects off substantially in the 2019-2020 fiscal year, so we are moving those dollars to 2020-2021 and ongoing. These projects are staying on the books. They are just moving a year down the line. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I did not hear an answer to my question. My question is whether subsequent projects will be delayed as a result. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy, would you like to take this?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Sure. Subsequent projects, I am assuming the Member is referring to the other long-term care projects that we have. Basically, it looks like all of the projects will shift one year down the line in order to get the work done. The work will continue to be done. We will still be done prior to our target date of 2026. We are just starting the major portions of these builds a year later than anticipated. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So is there a lesson learned from the consultation required in Hay River and Inuvik that will keep these other projects on track? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Yes, Mr. Chair, but the challenge is capacity. We have the same individuals working on all of the projects. We have plans to move forward with long-term care in Yellowknife, Fort Simpson, Hay River, and Inuvik. That work is still scheduled to be done. It's supposed to be done before 2026. That is still our target and our plan, but some of the costing is taking a little bit longer than we anticipated. As a result, they are all moving a year down the line. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. Just to confirm, in moving everything a year down the line, does that mean that the long-term care at Stanton legacy building will also be delayed by a year? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Stanton legacy is moving on as anticipated. We have got a different sort of relationship. It's not a new build. It's a retrofit of an existing building, working with our partners from the P3 project. It is anticipated that that one is still on target and on line. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Ms. Green. Community health programs not previously authorized, negative $5,013,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $12,360,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Turning to page 14, Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, economic diversification and business support not previously authorized, $1,884,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5766

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With the Blackstone Park hiking trail betterment, $97,000, can the Minister expand on that one, please, explanation on that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. On the Blackstone Territorial Park, I think it was originally $304,000 budget for it. We were looking for $97,000. It's a multi-year project in multiple phases. A consultant was hired to complete drawings for phase 2 of project. The project was delayed due to weather issues; substantial completion in summer of 2020. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the Blackstone Park road improvement for $115,000, is that a similar situation? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That one had a budget of $150,000. I think the amount that we are looking for a $115,000. The contract is in place. The project is delayed due to higher-than-budget bids being received when the project was first tendered out. Revised tender awarded; construction to begin this spring and finish by this summer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. Fort Liard NWT/BC border, Pullout Pavilion for $32,000. Could the Minister elaborate further on that? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This one had a revised budget of $49,000 on March 31, 2019. Actual expenditure, $16,990. We are looking for $32,000 in this. Design is completed. Project ran into regulatory process delays to acquire land-use permit. It is still in process. Carry-over will be used to complete construction in 2019-2020. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. The land-use permit, maybe I didn't hear correctly. What was the permit for? What was the permit about? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't have that level of detail, but I will endeavour to get it for the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. Thompson. Next, we have Mr. Nadli.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to ask a question in terms of understanding the distinctions between the new residence that we are installing in Fort Providence. The Fort Providence Park Manager's Residence/Gatehouse is itemized at $8,000. Then the Lady Evelyn Falls Park - Replacement of Manager Residence, I believe they are two same buildings. The one at Kakisa is itemized for $38,000. Is there a distinction or difference between the size or perhaps the cost? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The $8,000 was requested for deficiencies. Carry-over was requested for deficiencies. Anticipated completion, summer of 2019. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Yes. I am just failing to understand how you would have deficiencies if install a completely new building. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In anything that you build, whether it is brand new or not, there are always going to be some deficiencies after they do an inspection of the unit. It might be some minor things. It may be something a bit more major. I think even in Stanton Hospital alone when they were doing it, there were a number of deficiencies as you go. Just because the buildings are brand new doesn't mean there are no deficiencies in the building. The $8,000 was used to take care of some of the deficiencies.

I think the Member had asked before about the replacement of the manager's residence in Kakisa. Am I correct? He wanted some information on that. If he did, the revised budget was $225,000. The amount requested was $38,000. Construction is substantially complete. Service hook-up is required in order to put the building into service. To be completed in the spring of 2019.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5767

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $4,135,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $6,019,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Page 16, the beginning of Infrastructure. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Highway 7 reconstruction for $91,000. Could the Minister just elaborate a little bit further on what this is about? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It had an original budget of $3,628,000. Almost $3.5 million was spent. $91,000 is being requested. The contract is in place. Carry-over will be needed to complete the project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Was it a program what the Minster was talking about? I didn't hear that last word. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The contract is in place. The carry-over will be needed to complete project. As to the details of the completion of the project, I am not quite sure what they are. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I apologize. It was "project," not "program." I am good. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $18,383,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Programs and services, not previously authorized. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Sorry, Mr. Chair. I didn't realize the asset management carried over on to page 17. There is an item at the top of page 17 about the Tlicho all-season road. It looks like money is being taken out of the capital budget and the project is being delayed or deferred or something. Can someone explain what is going on here? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. That page has already been discussed. That item has been voted on. If you would like to seek consent of the House to go back, we can do that. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I would like to seek the consent of my colleagues, then, to go back to this item, asset management. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly. Member is seeking consent to return to the previously voted item. Any opposed? Mr. O'Reilly, please continue.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My apologies. I didn't realize that it was flowing over onto the next page, so many carry-overs, I guess, from the Department of Infrastructure. Can someone explain to me: it looks like $13,755,000 is being taken out of the capital budget for the Tlicho all-season road. It mentions here that there is an amended timing of expected project expenditures. Does that mean that this project is being delayed a year more? What is going on? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. As the Member would be aware, we went through a process with an RFP in advance of that, an RFP with those sorts of things. The money being taken out just reflects a change in cash flow. In last year's capital estimates, it had a cash flow going through to the last amount being spent in 2022-2023. The revised cash flow is adjusted and still being completed on the same time frame. It was really just an issue of the delays in terms of getting the permitting in place as well as the contractor. I think everything is ready to roll. It is just a rejigging of the cash flow. It didn't change the timing on the project. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5768

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. O'Reilly. It looks like I have to call that item again. Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $18,383,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Programs and services, not previously authorized, $6,529,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $24,912,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Page 19, Justice. We will begin with corrections. Comments or questions from committee? Justice, capital investment expenditures, corrections, not previously authorized, $10,685,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Court services, not previously authorized, $716,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Legal aid services, not previously authorized. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. It looks like there is almost $250,000 carried over for retrofits for community legal aid security project. Can someone briefly explain what this is about, and if carrying over or delaying this project has any implications for our ability to deliver on legal aid services? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We had a budget of $345,000. The actual expenditures were about $97,000. The amount that we are looking for is $248,000. It says that the contract is in place for the project, and significant expenses have been incurred.

As to the detail of the work that has been undertaken, I don't have that level, but if the Member wishes, I can get that level of detail. I am not sure if it is having an effect on our ability to deliver legal aid. I am thinking not, but I will confirm that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks. I am content with the commitment by the Minister to get that information and share it with me. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Legal aid services, not previously authorized, $248,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $11,649,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Lands on page 20. We begin with corporate management.

Lands, capital investment expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, negative $698,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Lands, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, negative $698,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that we have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 443-18(3), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2019-2020?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister and the witnesses appearing before us. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Thank you to all of the other Ministers that participated in the discussion. Thank you for your patience, committee. We have next agreed to consider Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2019-2020. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks? Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5769

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2019-2020. This document proposes an increase of $32.1 million to the 2019-2020 operating budget.

The major items included in these supplementary estimates are:

  • $22.1 million for implementation of the 2016-2017 to 2020-2021 collective agreement between the Union of Northern Workers and the GNWT;
  • $2.5 million to transfer responsibility to deliver a market housing four-plex in Tulita from the Department of Health and Social Services to the NWT Housing Corporation;
  • $2.1 million for the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund agreement;
  • $1.4 million for homecare, community care, mental health, and addictions;
  • $1.1 million for conservation and recovery of the Bathurst and Bluenose East barren-ground caribou herds;
  • $1 million for boreal caribou range planning activities under the Species At Risk Conservation Agreement for the Conservation of the Boreal Caribou; and
  • $834,000 for the Pan-Territorial Vision for Sustainable Development.

That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chair. I would be happy to answer any questions that Members may have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I understand that you have witnesses that you wish to bring into the House. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses for the record.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my immediate right, I have Mr. David Stewart, who is the deputy minister of Finance and secretary to the FMB. To my left, I have Mr. Jamie Koe, who is the Comptroller General, Department of Finance, Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I will open the floor to general comments on the operations expenditures supplementary estimates. Any general comments? Mr. O'Reilly, start it off.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have a question about what the position of the reserve is with the total of $32.1 million? How much is left in the reserve? Can someone tell me what the reserve was and how much is left if this supplementary appropriation is approved? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I go to Mr. Stewart to provide the information, I would like to make a correction. Mr. Jamie Koe is the comptroller general, and he is also moving on to become the deputy secretary to the FMB, and then we will be staffing a comptroller general. I just wanted to add that in. I was still calling him the comptroller general, so I just wanted to correct that. I will go to Mr. Stewart to respond to the Member's question. Thank you. Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Thank you for clearing that up. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The net impact of this supplement is around $25 million. Our reserve will be overspent by $5,837,000 after this supplementary appropriation for this fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. We are going to be in a deficit position with regard to the reserve. What is the impact, then, on our government? Do we have to borrow this money to carry us through the remainder of the financial year? What sort of costs are we looking at if we have to go into short-term debt? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. During the year, as the Member would be aware, you have your main estimates that set out your appropriations. There are supplementary appropriations that you estimate. We will be over on that. Then there are lapses that happen in departmental budget as well.

The Member is correct that, if the lapses are not enough to cover the over-expenditure, then that would add to our short-term debt, and then we will have to be in a position to pay that back as we go forward, but we really can't know what the full impact is for 2019-2020 until we get through the year and understand whatever departmental lapses there may be, on top of whatever supplementary requests come in during the year. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I understand that it's all going to get reconciled at year-end, but I have also been here long enough to know that there are probably going to be two or three more supplementary appropriations on the operations side before the end of the financial year, so we're going to have to make up a lot of money by the year-end to make sure that we do not go into debt. Is that correct? I would like to ask that question. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5770

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is we will not be coming forward with any more up supplementary appropriation requests before the end of this particular Assembly. As to what's going to happen once the new Assembly comes in, I cannot speak for them, but I know, as far as this Assembly goes, I think this is basically it as far as supplementary appropriations go. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I am just a bit worried that we are not leaving the next Assembly in a very good starting place, but I will just leave it at that for now. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Seeing nothing further, we can move into detail. The detail of the operations expenditures begins on page 4. They are going to be quite repetitive. I can get going. Legislative Assembly, operations expenditures, office of the Chief Electoral Officer not previously authorized, $9,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Office of the Clerk not previously authorized, $124,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Office of the Speaker, not previously authorized, $3,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Statutory offices not previously authorized, $42,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Legislative Assembly, operations expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $178,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, corporate management not previously authorized, $160,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Culture, heritage and languages not previously authorized, $287,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Early childhood and school services not previously authorized. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could I have some detail on what this $67,000 is going to be spent on in more detail than is provided on page 5? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. This funding is in relation to the agreement, the multi-year agreement, on early learning and childcare framework with the Government of Canada, and this is really allowing us to move money that would have been lapsed in 2018-2019 into 2019-2020. So it's a cash flow issue where we are moving the money forward so that they can spend it in the current fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, for that explanation. Can the deputy minister say what the money is going to be spent on? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. We do not have that level of detail, but, if the Member wishes, I can work with the department to try to provide that information to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that commitment. Nothing further.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I will call the item. Early childhood and school services not previously authorized, $1,513,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Income security not previously authorized, $303,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Labour development and advanced education not previously authorized, $1,471,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5771

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $3,734,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, corporate management not previously authorized, $204,000. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. There is $60,000 in ENR, there is $714,000 in Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs, and another $60,000 in Industry, Tourism and Investment with all the same description. Can someone tell me a little bit more about what this is? How many staff people are we hiring? Where are they going to be located? Can someone tell me if they are on contract or term or what? What's going on? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly, and that the description is: "to provide funding to support the Pan Territorial Vision for Sustainable Development through negotiations for the management of offshore oil and gas resources," just for those who are reading along. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Compensation and benefits, there are three positions for a total of $589,000; contract services, $150,000; the travel is $95,000. As to where, I am still looking for it, but that should explain where some of the money is going, some of the positions that are going to be used. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. So, these three positions, where are they actually going to be located? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. These would be in the Executive and Indigenous Affairs branch here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. So are these people full-time GNWT employees, or are they contractors? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would assume that they are full-time because, as I mentioned earlier, there were three positions, $589,000, plus there was also $150,000 in contract services. I would assume that they would be full-time positions. However, I want to make sure that I do provide the right information, so I will work to get the correct information, and I will share that with the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I think we are scheduled to get some more information on this in the next day or two, so maybe the Minister might have it in time for that. I will give him a secret heads-up that I will probably ask again at that thing. So, yes, I am okay with this for now. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you. I did make a commitment to the Member that I would get the information and share it with him. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Further? Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Sorry. No, that is it. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. I think we were both doing other things there. Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, corporate management not previously authorized, $204,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Environmental protection and waste management not previously authorized, $124,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Environmental stewardship and climate change not previously authorized, $167,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Forest management not previously authorized, $661,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Water management and monitoring not previously authorized, $182,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5772

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Wildlife not previously authorized, $2,467,000. Does committee agree? Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. There is $1.1 million here for conservation and recovery of the Bathurst and Bluenose-East barren-ground caribou herds. The Minister knows that I have been after him quite a while on this. Can he provide a little bit more of a breakdown of what this money is actually going to be used for? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In our tour of Tlicho and listening to some of our Indigenous partners, they talked about our ability to do the herd composition surveys, and I think we had made a commitment that we were going to try to get out a bit more. The herd composition survey is approximately $230,000 of this $1.1 million. Collars, there was always a reluctance to try to use collars, but, once they realized the type of collars that we are switching to, I think they were a little more receptive to that and, if there was anything that they could do to help monitor the herd a bit more, they agreed with. I think we budgeted $90,000 for that. Tlicho Government Boots on the Ground is a great program, and we are trying to expand that. We have allocated $40,000 for that. We also made a commitment to restore the fire crew at Wekweeti, and that's $85,000. The North Slave incentive program for wolves, we have budgeted $200,000; wolf management action, $300,000; fire science research position, that's $115,000; and the O and M to support the research was $50,000. That brings us to the total of $1.1 million.

I was looking for a bit more level of detail, but this breaks down what the money is being used for. If the Member would like more detail on exactly what the plans are for each one of these allocations, then I would be happy to work with the department to provide the information to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the breakdown, and I am looking at the same breakdown here, which is great. Can someone tell me: is the $115,000 fire science research position the position that is going to be tasked with actually developing the recovery strategy? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That particular level of detail, I don't quite have, but my understanding is that there is going to be a fire behavioural specialist that would be able to work with the department in trying to understand the fire behaviour. If there are ways that we can incorporate that into some of the work that we are doing with the conservation of the herds, then we would take that into consideration.

Again, the exact level of detail, I apologize; I don't have that. I will, again, work with the department to ensure that I have the correct information to provide to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the commitment by the Minister. When I look at the funding that is here, I think it is good, but I think that we need more. There is money here to carry on the surveys. There is money for the collars. There is money for traditional knowledge work. There is some fire management. There is some predator control money, and maybe a little bit for research. I don't see anything in here, though, about habitat protection, not one cent.

We have asked the harvesters to give up harvesting now for years, and they have done that. In some cases, they have actually done it voluntarily, but there is not one cent in here for habitat protection. The Bathurst caribou management plan calls for habitat protection. There is to be some work done identifying or compiling key habitat; we already know where a lot of that is. There is supposed to be some work done to look at temporary caribou protection measures or caribou conservation measures, so that, when there is land use activities in an area, when you have caribou nearby, things shut down. That is the way it was done in the Kivalliq region when there was a caribou crisis.

I don't see one cent in here, though, to actually do anything about habitat protection. When is that work going to happen, and how is it going to get funded? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5773

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand the importance of protection of the caribou herd. We live amongst the caribou herd, so we understand the protection. I have heard from a lot of the elders in the regions that I have travelled to about the protection of the caribou herd. This is a supplementary appropriation. This is $1.10 million in addition to the money that we appropriated during the budget session in February-March. Again, I could work with the department and compile all of the information in addition to this money here, the other money that is allocated. I think that it is a fairly significant amount.

I understand the Member's concern, and it is a concern that I heard from the elders, who I take very seriously, because they know the land and the caribou a lot better than we do. We have enhanced the program. It's a start, and we would continue to enhance the program and work with our Aboriginal partners to make sure that we have the best protections available to the caribou herd. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I would appreciate some more information, then, from the Minister. I have the Bathurst Caribou Range Plan open on my screen here. There are seven management tools identified. I am just going to read out the ones that have anything to do with habitat: habitat conservation, mobile caribou conservation measures, road planning and management, and offsetting and compensatory mechanisms. I don't see anything in the supplementary appropriation that is going to allow for that work to be carried out. I don't think that the existing staff have the capacity to do these additional items in here. How is this work going to be funded? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do not question the capacity of our staff. We have professionals that know exactly what they are doing. I have had the privilege of working with them in my time as the Environment Minister. I know that they are very passionate about what they do. I know that the Indigenous elders are very passionate about what they do. I know that the Member is passionate about the fact that we need more money to do the work that we do, and we are continuing to allocate money for this.

Again, I did make a commitment that I would work with the department. I am sure that there is other money. This is a supplementary appropriation. This is what we are requesting in addition to the money that we are already spending on these particular items.

As far as the actual dollars, I apologize; I don't have that information at my fingertips, but I will work with the department to make sure that I get a thorough description of all of the money that we have going towards the caribou in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 5774

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister's commitment. I would like to get something back in writing from the Minister and the department about the costs of these activities in the range plan and where the money is going to come from to do, particularly with regard to item 2, habitat conservation; item 3, mobile caribou conservation measures; item 4, road planning and management; and item 5, offsetting and compensatory mechanisms. With that commitment, I am willing to let this go. I think that I heard the Minister say that he would provide that information. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I was trying to get some of the numbers here from the main estimates that we debated, and it seems like there is a lot of money that is going to this. As far as the actual breakdown, I think that the Member was looking for specifically what we are spending on the items that he listed. I will work with the department to get some of the numbers to provide to the Member.

At the end of the day, the important fact here is that we are allocating a lot of resources to deal with something that we have heard about from a lot of the people across the Northwest Territories who have lived amongst the caribou and have used it for a few years. We have heard from them, and we have heard their voices, so we are trying to allocate as much money as we can to try to do the work that we need to do to conserve the caribou in the Northwest Territories.

Again, I have made a commitment that I will provide some of the numbers to the Member, and I intend to live up to that commitment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Final words, Mr. O'Reilly?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks. It is nice to get final words once in a while. I am worried about habitat. We are not doing anything or nearly enough to protect the habitat of the caribou, and that is my concern. I don't think that this supplementary appropriation deals with that. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Wildlife, not previously authorized, $2,467,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $3,805,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5774

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Executive and Indigenous Affairs, operations expenditures, Cabinet support, not previously authorized, $59,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Corporate communications, not previously authorized, $40,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Directorate, not previously authorized, $856,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Executive Council offices, not previously authorized, $101,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Indigenous and intergovernmental affairs, not previously authorized, $163,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Executive and Indigenous Affairs, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $1,219,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please turn to page 11, Finance. Operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $3,398,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Human resources, not previously authorized, $440,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Information systems shared services, not previously authorized, $269,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Management board secretariat, not previously authorized, $147,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Office of the Comptroller General, not previously authorized, $861,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Finance, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $5,115,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Please turn to page 13. Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $1,826,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Ambulatory care services, not previously authorized, $322,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Community health programs. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am looking for two pieces of detail here. The first is, I note there is more money for Avens, and I assume that came out of the operational review that was conducted last year. Is this going to be an annual expense, or is this a one-time only expense? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I'd like to go to the Minister of Health and Social Services.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is funding to provide, funding to address accumulated financial pressures related to Avens previous collective agreement with their employees, so it would be ongoing but it's intended to cover that gap from previous collective agreements. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. I understand that to be one-time-only funding. Could the Minister please clarify if this is not one-time-only funding to feel a gap, then, what is it? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5775

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe the Minister of Health and Social Services said it was ongoing funding. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. Sorry, I seemed to have misheard that. Will it be the same amount every year going forward? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It becomes the base to cover their salary costs, and where the deficiency existed, but this only covers previous collective agreement costs. We know that they are going to go out for collective agreement at some point, and we don't know how that's going to end up. This doesn't take into account that. This is just existing cost based on previous collective agreement.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Maybe I'll ask a more general question about the cost of implementing the operational review at Avens. What we see here is $402,000. What can we expect going forward as a dollar figure? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are working very closely with Avens based on the operational review that was done to try and get a sense of what that means for the long term. In the meantime, we are working with them to prepare options for a funding framework that would re-guide our future relationship of long-term care facilities; not just Avens, but any organizations we may work with in the future. We're doing that work with Avens right now based on what we learned from that review. We haven't finalized that work. It's two parties working together, but we are moving forward with that.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My other question on this page has to do with the funding that is allocated to improving homecare and community care services, as well as improving access to mental health and addiction services. Could the Minister provide us with the next level of detail about what this money will be spent on? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This appropriates year two funding of a four-year agreement that we have with Health Canada. We will have to come back to build the following years back into the budget, so you'll see future years brought forward at that time. We did an announcement on this. This agreement is for four years, 2018 to March 31, 2022. There is an option for a five-year extension, 2026 to 2027. This is based on review of how things are going. The agreement allows some carryover. Future allocations will be subject to population estimates and those types of things. The money that you see in 2019-2020 is going to help us establish two positions: a senior advisor for mental health and addiction services; and a manager of InterRAI implementation for home and community care. As the Member knows, InterRAI is the tool that we will be implementing to help assess homecare clients and long-term care clients to determine what their level of need is so that we can provide them the appropriate support through things like pay to family community care givers, home support workers, and also long-term care. Important work that needs to be done this fiscal year.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that answer. What I heard out of that was two positions; one in mental health, and one in the InterRAI system. There must be more to it than that at $1.4 million? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are a number of other things that are happening with this funding. We're looking at the development of the paid individual family community caregiver programs and the pilot. That money is being used for InterRAI, as I indicated, not just the position but some of the work that we're doing around InterRAI. There's also funding for mental health and addiction services which is being used to help us develop the territorial suicide prevention and crisis support number. Positions, but as well as this other stuff that needs to be done. Important work for the residents of the Northwest Territories.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Those are all my questions on this page. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. I will call the item. Community health programs, not previously authorized, $3,471,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5776

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Community social programs, not previously authorized, $574,00. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Diagnostic and therapeutic services, not previously authorized, $1,260,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nursing inpatient services, not previously authorized, $1,078,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Supplementary health programs, not previously authorized, $208,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $8,739,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $207,000?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I didn't say a number, did I? Committee, I forgot to say the dollar amount there, so can we disagree to nothing?

---Laughter

Let's call that one again correctly this time. Economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $335,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. It's getting late. I apologize. Minerals and petroleum resources, not previously authorized, $398,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $149,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Total department, not previously authorized, $1,089,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Turn to page 17, please. Infrastructure, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $384,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Corporate management, not previously authorized, $209,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Programs and services, not previously authorized. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. There's $537,000 for something called "Large Scale Commercial and Industrial GHG Grant Fund." I think this was part of an announcement that the Minister of Infrastructure made for $8.2 million under the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund several weeks ago, and I would like to know who is going to administer that program, and if there is any publicly available criteria for it yet. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister McLeod.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, through you, I would like to go to Minister Schumann.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann, are you prepared to answer the question? Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is right. This is one of the ones that we were announced here later because it had to be sent back for more detail to get the federal government approval. I believe you have to hit that level of detail from the department, but I think that, for the most part, this is going to be handled by the department. On the application process, as far as the expenditures, I would like to double check on that and get that level of detail on that for the Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5777

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. As I seem to recall, I think GNWT will put up 25 percent of the money for a commercial or industrial proponent in an NGO; or sorry, GNWT will put up 40 percent for an NGO funding that is required. Is that what the Minister recalls? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. My understanding of the commercial and industrial GHG Grant fund is that there will be a contribution from what we get from the federal government, and then the applicant provides the other portion of whatever the cost may be, so there are not any specific GNWT dollars. It is the federal program that helps with the commercial or industrial applicant to do the types of renovations or those sorts of things that they want to do. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I probably misspoke. Monies flowing through us, but yes, I think I got a commitment out of the Minister of Infrastructure to provide information. It is great that I get it, but more importantly, how do we communicate this to the public if we can't even explain how the program is working? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Schumann.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I will get that. As I said, I am committed to get that information to the Member on it. Sorry, I don't have the detailed information in front of me. I have a lot of programs that I have to administer, and I just can't remember the exact details on this specific number. I will get that information to the Member, and I will also see if it is posted online with their other programs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Nothing further from Mr. O'Reilly. Infrastructure operations expenditure programs and services not previously authorized, $2,599,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Regional operations not previously authorized, $1,652,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Infrastructure, operations expenditure, total department not previously authorized, $4,844,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Please turn to page 19, Justice. Justice, operations expenditure, community justice and policing not previously authorized, $56,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Corrections not previously authorized, $1,183,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Court services not previously authorized, $258,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Legal aid services not previously authorized, $160,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Office of the Regulator of Oil and Gas operations not previously authorized, $32,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Services to government not previously authorized, $302,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Services to the public not previously authorized, $136,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Justice, operations expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $2,127,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Lands, operations expenditure, corporate management not previously authorized, $148,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Operations not previously authorized, $352,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Planning and coordination not previously authorized, $187,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5778

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Lands, operations expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $680,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Page 22, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, community operations not previously authorized, $69,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Community governance not previously authorized, $59,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Directorate not previously authorized, $82,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Public safety not previously authorized, $77,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Regional operations not previously authorized, $187,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

School of community government not previously authorized, $44,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Sport, recreation and youth not previously authorized, $53,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $571,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Do we agree that this conclude consideration of Tabled Document 444-18(3), Supplementary Estimates Operations Expenditures, No.2, 2019-2020.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister and to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that consideration of Tabled Document 444-18(3), Supplementary Estimates Operations Expenditures, No. 2, 2019-2020, be now concluded and that Tabled Document 444-18(3) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion on the floor. It has been distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that consideration of Tabled Document 443-18(3), Supplementary Estimates Infrastructure Expenditures, No. 2, 2019-2020, now be concluded and that Tabled Document 443-18(3) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, committee. I just want to take a moment to thank everyone here in the Chamber with us, everyone behind the glass, and everyone in the back. I know it has been a late night. I know it is past a lot of people's bedtimes, including mine, so I appreciate that we are all still in a good mood, we are all still working together, we are all still getting things done, so thank you to everyone here. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, could I have a minute, Mr. Chair?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5779

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairman, committee would like to continue consideration next of Committee Report 14-18(3), Special Committee to Increase Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly final report. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5780

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Thank you for clarifying that. I thought that committee might have different intentions. Committee, we have agreed to consider Committee Report 17-18(3). I will go to the Chair of the Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly for any opening comments that she may have. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5780

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As you know, earlier today, the Special Committee to Increase the Representation of Women in the Legislative Assembly presented its final report. The committee report included three recommendations, and I look forward to the opportunity to discuss the report and recommendations in Committee of the Whole. Members of the committee may also have individual comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5780

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. I will open up the floor to general comments on the report. Do any Members have general comments on this report? First, we have Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5780

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to take this opportunity to let the committee know that I am very grateful for the work that they have undertaken over the last year or more that the committee has been put together. It has done extensive travel throughout the territory. It has held a number of public hearings to gather very important information as it relates to increasing the representation of women. I was very pleased to see that a number of the public hearings were presented to the public through various forums, in particular Facebook Live, so I was happy to tune in and listen to what a lot of different members of the public had to say, both men and women, through a number of the communities.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to really let the committee know that I commend their efforts and appreciate the information that they have presented to us here in the report. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5780

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Next, we have Mr. Testart.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 4th

Page 5780

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, too, want to take this opportunity to commend the special committee on their work. Both this report and the previous report that was considered by the Assembly represent a great deal of time, effort, and sincere dedication to an issue that we set out to address as an Assembly on day one, which is increasing the representation of women.

As the committee noted in its interim report, it is a slow process. There are no simple solutions, and it takes this level of detailed analysis to really come to grips with this issue, which is very close to the good functioning of any representative institution, which is ensuring that it is representative of the public body that it serves.

Parliamentary reform and democratic reform are great interests of mine, and many of the models addressed show that the committee did its homework. This issue is not just one of institutions, but also one of culture, traditions, and gender roles reflected in society.

I have had the opportunity to meet some Samoan MPs through interparliamentary conferences, and as it turns out, you need to be chief before you are allowed to stand for MP. It is one of the eligibility requirements. That is my understanding, at least. Right there, you understand how difficult it can be to ensure adequate representation of minorities and women when there is a cultural component like that in place. The initiative that they took was very progressive, but also very much required for their context. Of course, the NWT has a very different social, cultural, economic, and political context, and it takes work like this to properly understand that context.

I have additional comments around some of the recommendations, but I think that this is solid work. It speaks well to the level of interest that Northerners have. One of the things that should be particularly noted about this report is some of the appendices where the committee took time to show their list of public hearings and the list of written submissions. That just shows, again, that this was very much a public process that had a lot of engagement and shows that our institution is being responsive to the concerns of Northerners and, in particular, the concerns of northern women, who have had enough with Assemblies that just simply don't reflect the gender make-up of our populations. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Next, Mr. Nadli.

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Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to thank my colleagues and our chair for providing the leadership in terms of our travel, our meetings, and our discussions throughout the Northwest Territories communities that we had the good fortune of visiting and holding public forums and discussion. I think that that was the basic approach, trying to create at least an understanding of the issue of why women don't get elected to the territorial level, and trying to have some discussion and raised awareness of how it is that we could create, perhaps, possibilities of changing that whole issue and dilemma that we face now.

I think that that was the sole purpose of our discussion, but at the same time, we examined some changes that we thought that we could make. We did it in an interim report, and now we are concluding the final report. We wanted to make some strategic changes. I think that those recommendations that we are going to be talking about later on capture at least some of the key things that people had expressed to us, especially in the forums that we held in the communities.

I just wanted to take the opportunity to explain in my language what this whole discussion was all about, if I could, Mr. Chair. [English translation not provided]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just explained that the way that I see it, from the perspective of the people that I represent, considering some of the really deep-rooted traditional values that we have. We have a basic dilemma at this point. There are 19 MLAs, and there are only two women. In the Dene perspective, if you are going to make a decision, half of your decision-making input is not there, so you are only making half of a decision.

I don't know how to describe it or explain it in my language, but it is a matter of perception, and that is how I explained it, that half of our decision-making is not present. This was very important for me to at least share that perspective with the many people that we met during that time of our travel throughout the communities. I look forward to the ongoing discussions. Once again, I wanted to thank my colleagues and the staff that helped us out and our chair for leading the charge on this matter. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Next, we have Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will likely speak on the recommendations. For general comments here, I would like to also thank my colleagues on the committee. There were six of us on the committee, and I would also like to thank the committee staff for providing us the assistance that we needed to visit the nine communities and sat in front of well over 100 people to hear their recommendations. I think, I feel, it will work. I know already that, as we are moving into the next territorial election, we are hearing names of a lot of women that would like to become MLAs, who will be running in the territorial election. I would say that we will, we could, I suspect that we are probably going to have the highest number of women in this legislature after the next election. Throughout, the methods and as we worked our way through it led by our chair, I was not sure if something like this would actually work, and now, after seeing the report and at the conclusion of our community visits, I strongly feel that this will work and that the numbers that we are trying to achieve, we will achieve easily. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next, we have Minister Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to start by thanking the Speaker for bringing it forward, the idea of guaranteed seats. I want to thank our chair, MLA Green, for stepping forward and asking to be the chair for this committee. I thought it was very appropriate that it would be a woman taking on the chair position. I want to thank our staff, who did more than their share of research, were there on the road, put up with a lot of us, and did great work. Our colleagues, I want to thank them. It was very difficult, I think sometimes. We are talking about women taking over seats, half the seats ideally. Although we are not striving for that, eventually, if we are to be equally represented, in a population of 50 percent, then it would be nice to have 50 percent, so I imagine it's hard for men to actually have those conversations because it means that some of the men in these seats would be looking at losing their seat, so I recognize that.

I also want to thank the MLAs in whose regions we went because we went into their regions trying to talk to women about getting their names on the ballot, and, again, that must have been very difficult for some of those men to accept that and to be humble within that and allow us into their communities to push that because I am not sure, if we were looking a get anyone else, if we were looking for another man, if that would be as welcomed. So I know it was difficult, and I want to thank them.

I really want to say that it's critical, in my opinion it's critical, that women are equally represented. I have heard a lot of different opinions here since I have been here in the last almost four years now, and I know I have had people say to me, men come to me and say: why can't they represent women's issues? I appreciate that men are willing to be our allies. However, I am a strong advocate who says: if you don't live it, you can't know it. You know, there are a lot of issues that I have not experienced in my life, and I do not pretend that I can speak for those people. I try to use their voices whenever possible instead of my own thinking of what they should do, so I am respectful of that process.

The whole key when we started out was to find out if we were going to have special seats or not. It turned into more than that, Mr. Chair. It actually turned into: the number of people who came to these meetings, the number of women, the generation of discussion in itself I think will make a huge difference, and I am hoping that we will see this in the next election. I am looking forward to this election. I think that this committee did an excellent job. I think that it was represented fairly well. I think that it's going to make a difference in this next election.

I also want to say that, this committee -- I have never been a Regular MLA. When I was elected, I first got into a ministry, so I never experienced the committees, but, if this committee was an example of all committees that the MLAs have, then I want to say that that is a true example of consensus government because at no time did our committee argue, fight. It was not one person's voice over others. We were very respectful in it. We did not always get our way, but at no time was there fighting, and there was no showcasing. We all worked together equally in what I feel was a consensus form of government, so I really thank you for that process, as well, and for giving me that experience that I have never experienced here other than that committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Next, we have Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, lots of thank yous going around, and I too want to recognize the work of the Members who volunteered to serve on this committee. This was not something that people had to sign up for. People volunteered their time, and this was time away from their families, time away from their communities to take this work on the road, hear what people had to say. There was a lot of hard work that went into this, and I really appreciate the time of the MLAs who volunteered to do this, as I said.

The other thing that I think is unusual about this committee is that it's one of these rare creatures where Regular MLAs actually sit together with Cabinet Ministers. I think that is a good thing, not all the time maybe, but certainly in this situation I think it was great to have people from the Cabinet side and the Regular MLAs who worked together on these issues.

It's certainly a well-researched report. I had the privilege of sitting in on the public hearing that was held in Yellowknife to hear people's passion on the issues and on some of the internal committee proceedings, so I can certainly attest to the vigour of some of the debates and discussion, but I think it's a well-thought-out report with some sound recommendations.

The interim report really dealt with what we might call the low-hanging fruit and making some of the easier policy changes that we can do right now to make this a more family-friendly place and encourage policies and procedures that better meet the needs of women and young families where one of the parents might serve as an MLA. Those were all accepted. I agreed with them. This report is a little bit more forward-thinking in terms of how to bring more systemic change forward. Unfortunately, not much is going to happen in terms of the next election, but I think, if all the work that has been put into this issue by some of our colleagues in this House and others outside of the House does not lead to the kind of change that we all want to see happen, there are some specific measures recommended in here that I think will lead to the change that we need.

Once again, Mr. Chair, I want to thank all of the people who volunteered to serve on this and our staff, as well, for supporting that effort. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the chair and everybody else on the committee, as well, and the staff. I know they worked hard at arranging travel and enduring times. Being Indigenous myself and the challenges we face in the small communities, I think women do have it a lot harder than we, as men. We have more accessibility to almost anything that we want, and I think naturally that is the way the structure of politics in the Northwest Territories and in a lot of places where we have a lot of Indigenous people and mixed cultures really are. I think we are making steps in the right direction.

I would like to say that this was, out of the reports that have been generated and are being generated, this is the most respectful document, and I think it will be over the term of this Assembly. This is one where there has been fair input from everybody. If you look at some of the other reports where we were actually fighting to put our own personal points on some of these reports and recommendations, I think that is why women sometimes choose not to get into politics, Mr. Chair. Politics can be very dirty, and some of the reports that are coming out are an example of that. This one, I would have to say this is quite a respectful document and has a lot of respectful names along this.

You know, going to Inuvik where we sat, we started off up in my region, in Inuvik, and hearing from the working professionals, the women who are working, some of them are fine where they are; they are community leaders; they are coaches; they are mentors, and they choose to take on responsibility and leadership roles in that manner. I hope that this report will entice, definitely encourage, more women to run during this next upcoming election in all the regions that need equal representation.

In some fields that we struggle much, mental health is one of bigger ones, I think having a female MLA, a female mayor and other leaders in different governments is key to those areas of developing policies, whether it's at the municipal level, the territorial, or the national level, we definitely need that. I see that in some of the Inuit organizations that I work with nationally and internationally. They are definitely strong leaders.

I think we need to use this model as a foundation to develop something that is going to be unique for the Northwest Territories and not follow so much everywhere else around this world but maybe match those numbers by what we can do here. Again, I would just like to say thanks to everybody for their participation and leadership in this. The outcomes, sometimes, the turnouts in some of the communities where they are harvesting this spring is hard to bring out anybody, but it shows that when people want to make a point and show up and share their opinion, there is always time for that. I would just like to say thank you to the chair and all the Members and especially the staff for this. Mr. Chair, thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. There is no one further on my list. Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this Assembly recommends that, if the 2019 election does not meet 20 percent women representation, the 19th Legislative Assembly will call a plebiscite to determine which of the options set out in the discussion paper is preferred by the electorate.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As you heard in our report, we had a mixed reception to the Speaker's paper on guaranteed representation for women. We didn't have an agreement on how to move forward on that issue at this time. We decided to defer a decision about a plebiscite on guaranteed seats until after the next election and leave it in the hands of the 19th Assembly. Of course, we hope to see an improvement in women's representation in October. As some of my colleagues have said, they feel that the time is here for that to happen.

We are also hoping that the increased focus on campaign schools, better communication about the role of MLA, and the attention that is being paid to make this an easier place for women to work will also encourage women to run. In the event there is no increase in numbers in the fall, then our hope is that the 19th Assembly will revisit the issue of guaranteed seats. That is the purpose of this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. To the motion. Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be supporting this motion mainly because I think that we will easily achieve four women MLAs in the next election. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour. All those opposed. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this assembly create an election rebate for candidates who receive at least 5 percent of the votes cast in her or his electoral district in the NWT, reimbursing 50 percent of eligible personal election expenses up to a maximum rebate amount of $3,000. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Many women told us that paying for a campaign is a major barrier to them deciding to become a candidate. We looked at rebate schemes across the country and used that information to create our recommendation, which I have to tell you is unique in the country since it is a recommendation that applies to independent candidates rather than those in parties.

First, we set the threshold to qualify for a rebate low. Candidates only have to earn 5 percent of the vote to be eligible for a rebate. Second, the expenses eligible for the rebate exclude cash and in-kind donations but do include the money the candidate spent from his or her own pocket on the campaign. We set a cap at 50 percent rebate on these expenses because it is one of the most generous rebates available in the country in this scheme and the cost to government, given the 2015 election results, would be about $60,000. If there was no cap, so if expenses were rebated in full, the cost to government would jump to $163,000.

Mr. Chair, as you see in Appendix C of the report, we looked at the option of providing a rebate of 50 percent on up to $10,000 worth of expenses. We ultimately decided against this number because so few people spend enough to require this greater reimbursement. In fact, it would have been just four candidates in the last election. Reimbursement at this level would favour those who spend more and can afford to wait for a rebate, in other words, candidates who probably don't need our help in the first place.

The option we chose was to rebate 50 percent of $6,000 in expenses because it reflects the level at which most candidates spend. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Testart.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that Committee Motion 142-18(3) be amended by striking out the words "up to a maximum rebate of $3,000." Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. There is a motion to amend on the floor. The motion to amend is in order. To the motion to amend. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the parent motion, I am very supportive of this, but I wanted to address a concern here. The mover of the motion addressed the rationale behind the caps that were set in this motion. The first cap is at 50 percent of eligible personal election expenses, and the next cap is the maximum rebate of $3,000. I think that these kind of expense returns are really important to an effective participatory democracy. It levels the playing field for all candidates. What the motion contemplates is not the methodology around how exactly the rebates will be calculated, which I think is important. Really, what this motion speaks to is establishing a rebate and setting out some hard caps for that rebate.

However we want to figure that out, that is fine. I think a 50 percent cap is sufficient, and it levels the playing field across the board. I think $3,000 is probably too low to really impact the state of play in the seven Yellowknife ridings. Typically, incumbents can muster much more financial resources to support their re-election, and furthermore, candidates who can muster the range of finances you need to run a campaign with full advertising, with full election signs, that can run you anywhere from $15,000 to $20,000. That is to be competitive and in particular with incumbents.

I think having a rebate in place allows potential candidates and particular challengers to handle a lot of their upfront costs, knowing that they will get a return on that at the end of the day. I think that is really important because right now, a lot of fund raising happens after the writ is dropped. It is kind of "Let's close the gap." This just takes the pressure off and allows candidates to do what they really need to: focus on running and focus on reaching out to voters and on honing their ideas to be more effective.

I support the motion in principle. I just think it is too restrictive and doesn't represent the maximum benefit that could really be put out there. I think if we enrich this rebate, it is going to have better results and it is going to maximize the impact, in particular for women candidates and for all candidates in general and provide much needed levelling of the playing field for challengers to successfully mount campaigns against incumbents. Rather just speak to my concerns of the initial motions and vote for it, because I do support the motion, I wanted to take the step to bring forward an amendment to represent what I think will be an improvement to what the committee is asking for. I appreciate the work that has gone into it. I appreciate the calculations. I just have a difference of opinion and would like to resolve it by putting this question to the committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion to amend. Minister Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will not be supporting the amendment to the motion. I had spoken earlier to the committee about the amount of work that the committee put in, the amount of time, the amount of public engagement that we had, the colleagues that we worked with. I felt, in my opinion, that the committee worked very diligently. We didn't always agree on everything, but we came to a consensus, and we came forward with opinions. We took the time to actually review each recommendation and have the hard discussions and do the research on them.

I find this a little bit disrespectful, Mr. Chair, in honesty, that this was brought onto the floor when a special committee has been working for months on this, and it was never brought to the committee's attention and never had a chance to review this.

Out of respect for the special committee on women, I, again, state that I will stand by the committee that did the work, the staff, the chair, and all the committee members, and I will not be supporting an amendment that comes at the last minute on the floor. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion to amend. Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier on, we were talking about how appreciative we were of the committee. The committee did a lot of hard work, and I am looking at this and the email that we got earlier today. I was thinking about it all day, thinking, "Well, maybe it's a good thing," but at the same time, this wasn't a recommendation from the committee. It really does undermine the work, and Mr. Chair, when you look at the big picture from a 30,000-foot view, it looks sort of like a greedy motion. This is elections for public office, and we are not here to make amendments for ourselves personally or switch it to something that might look like a party.

I have a really hard time actually looking at this, Mr. Chair. We are public servants. We are here to work for people. We are not here for our own personal benefits, and I think that this kind of sits on the wall of that. I am almost thinking that maybe I would like to request a recorded vote when it comes to this, to show that this is the work that we are here to do. We are here to report and hopefully fulfill moving forward.

Mr. Chair, I will be requesting a recorded vote on this. This does not look good on committee's part. It really doesn't. I have a hard time supporting this. Out of all these reports, this had respect up until now, and I want to keep it respectful. For committee's sake, for all of the hard work that people did and all of the input, I will not support this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion to amend. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that my colleague is trying to improve the motion here, but I think that not having a cap on the rebate amount will encourage people to actually spend more money. There is no reason to encourage people to spend more money.

What will happen in this case is that people who have the financial means to spend more will get more money back, and historically, that has meant men, when you look at who the big spenders are in the last two elections. Granted, there are always fewer women candidates, but the benefit would be primarily to those male candidates.

There is also a possibility that this motion will discourage people from fundraising, which I think is very unfortunate. I think that fundraising for campaigns is the cornerstone of connecting with the community and having people support your candidacy in a very tangible way so that they have, literally, a buy-in into having the candidate here as an MLA.

For the reasons that I don't agree, no cap with an unlimited rebate amount, and I am not sure that an unlimited amount will be particularly effective for women, I do not support this motion. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion to amend. Mr. Vanthuyne.

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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To be honest, I appreciate what some are sharing as it relates to their concerns, but frankly, this report just came to us here today. We are moving motions on it today. I think that any Member has a right to move an amendment to a motion. That is part of our procedural process. By no means do I see the presenter of the motion trying to, in my view, undercut or undermine the committee's efforts.

I appreciate that, in fact, the mover is trying to make the motion better and allow for the cap to be a one-stage cap rather than a two-stage cap, but I have heard what was in the report. I have heard from the Member from Yellowknife Centre. I tend to agree that, if you look outside the City of Yellowknife and look into the other districts, if you go and look at Elections NWT's financial reports and see the budgets of others who have paid for elections in other jurisdictions, they tend to have a much lower budget than those who are in Yellowknife.

Those who are in Yellowknife probably are averaging somewhere between $10,000 and $20,000. There is a good chance that you have good resources to help you fund that to begin with, and $3,000 would still be a very welcomed rebate. Outside of Yellowknife, there is a good chance that $3,000 would, in fact, end up being about 50 percent. In some instances, it might end up being 100 percent of your campaign expenses.

I think that the motion was originally presented is well-meaning enough and would be welcomed. For that reason, I won't be supporting the amendment to the motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the amendment to the motion. Minister Sebert.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will not be supporting the amendment. I think that the initial motion, which was arrived at after a good deal of discussion, is appropriate to our situation. I think that it is a good first step, again, arrived at after a great deal of discussion.

As has been mentioned by Ms. Green, there are some concerns that, should the amended motion pass, it could incentivize candidates to spend the maximum amount and could favour candidates with the financial means to spend the most funds.

I think that we have taken the right step here. I think that the amendment is a bridge too far, so I will not be supporting the amendment. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion to amend. Minister Abernethy.

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Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I saw the report for the first time today, and I was very happy to be sitting in the gallery listening to the Members as they read it in. I think, as the Members read in the report, that I got a sense of what they were trying to accomplish through the recommendations, and I support the recommendations that the committee had put forward.

I saw earlier today that there was going to be a motion to amend. I wanted to maintain an open mind as that motion came forward. It is before us now. I have been listening to the Members talk. Frankly, I listened closely to the Member's rationale as to why the motion to amend was necessary, but I feel that the honourable Member for YK Centre's rationale for why it shouldn't be supported was solid, on point, made sense, and I agree with what the Member suggested it was saying.

As a result, I will not be supporting the motion to amend, but I will be happy to support the motion as it was originally written and intended. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion to amend. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. This concept of election rebates was brought to the attention of the Standing Committee on Rules and Procedures in the context of the report from the Chief Electoral Officer in the last election. There was a presentation made by an individual who suggested that this was something that should be done here in the Northwest Territories. Committee, at that point, thought that it was not something that could be pursued easily, that it was a big change to our electoral system and something more in keeping with, perhaps, the way things are done in southern jurisdictions.

I did have a chance to sit in on the committee meeting where the draft report was discussed, and I was certainly persuaded that one of the biggest barriers for women getting into politics is the cost of running a campaign. I think that this may not be the best way to address the issue, but it's certainly, I think, a viable option and one that I certainly support.

I don't support the amendment that's been brought forward by the honourable Member for Kam Lake. I want to thank him, though, for bringing it forward because I think it's got some debate discussion. I don't agree with some of the comments that have been made about the motives behind this and so on, but I do believe it's an honest effort to make sure there's an informed discussion and debate around this issue. The research that I've seen prepared on this would indicate that, if there was no cap, this would tend to benefit, at least in the last two elections, candidates largely from Yellowknife. I don't think that that really accomplishes where the committee wants to go, and I don't think it really addresses the barrier by having no cap whatsoever. I will vote against the amendment, but I will support the motion when we get to vote on it. Thanks Mr. Chair.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion to amend. I will allow the mover of the motion to close debate. Mr. Testart.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Given that this is the first opportunity to speak to this report, this is the first opportunity to consider the amendments and, hearing the debate now, I seek unanimous consent to withdraw the motion.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to withdraw the motion. All opposed? Any opposed? I didn't hear anyone opposed. The motion is withdrawn.

---Unanimous consent granted

To the motion.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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Some Hon. Members

Question.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? Just for clarity, the motion to amend has been withdrawn. To the original motion.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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Some Hon. Members

Question.

Motion to Amend Committee Motion 142-18(3), Withdrawn
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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chair, I move that this Assembly support the new NWT Polytechnic University to establish a leadership program designed to assist women to gain the skills and knowledge to take on leadership roles, including territorial, Indigenous, and municipal political positions.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. There's a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We heard from women that they would like campaign schools, certainly, but also leadership training that goes beyond the specific skills that are offered in campaign training. We heard from women who had attended programs in Banff and in Nova Scotia who felt that they had been very useful, and so, providing more in-depth training on leadership seems like a good idea for women, and a good fit with the new polytechnic university. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. To the motion. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to again thank the committee for presenting this. This is great to see. I think that it could be considered by some to be a little bit presumptuous, however, that that polytechnic university is a given, but I think we need to remind ourselves that maybe that is not the case, but that certainly, I can see that most people here are going to probably support this here today because it makes sense. Notwithstanding that a polytechnic university could be 10 years away, that maybe there would be consideration, for sure, to have similar programming established sooner rather than later in the likes of Aurora College. That will be my comments. I will be in support. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion. Minister Cochrane.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank MLA Vanthuyne for actually for bringing that point forward. You're right. The actual polytechnic university might take some years, but it's important to note that we're also building on the Aurora College, so it's not starting from scratch. Right now, the president is the president of Aurora College

When we were doing our travelling, when I was taking the new associate deputy minister of post-secondary renewal to the three campus communities, we met with Indigenous and municipal governments, and it was brought very clearly by Indigenous governments that they were interested in some kind of a leadership support to support them in governance of their own governments. I know that Municipal and Community Affairs provides that for municipal governments, but not so much for the Indigenous governments.

When we're doing this vision statement, we've been looking at strengths to the North. I think that Indigenous governments are a strength to the North. I think our population is a strength to the North. It makes sense for me to actually promote that we would have some form of leadership courses within the polytechnic university or Aurora College as it is now to start off. I am a huge supporter of this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion. Mr. Thompson.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I support the motion. My concern is the polytechnic university. I mean, it's great that we're talking about Aurora College and MACA, but we should be enforcing that now. We should be looking at the college. We've heard the Minister talked about the Aboriginal governments looking for this type of leadership training and that, so I think that maybe moving forward, even though we're talking polytech, that we actually say, Aurora College and the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs moving forward, that we can get this training out the door.

It's not just for territorial politics, but I think it's for boards and for municipal governments. Whether it's designated authorities, hamlets or tax-based communities. I would encourage the next body to look at that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be supporting it.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Ms. Green.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate colleagues staying and spending this extra time debating this report on short notice. Thank you for your kind comments of support for the work that the committee did. I would like to thank my colleagues who were on the committee and those who dropped in. I would like to give a very special thank you to the staff who worked very hard. Our first meeting was November 28th, last year, and we've now produced two reports on our work, so that's really a testament to how hard they've worked to sew this issue up at this time. I'd also like to thank the people who came to the hearings and provided written submissions, as well. I am looking forward to the favourable results that some of my colleagues are predicting of being able to double the number of women sitting in this House very soon. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. I take those as closing comments. Does committee agree that we have concluded consideration of Committee Report 17-18(3)?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. This concludes our consideration of Committee Report 17-18(3). What is the wish of committee? Mr. Testart.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move the Chair rise and report progress.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. There is a motion to report progress. The motion is in order. All those in favour. All those opposed. The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will rise and report progress.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

May I have the report, Member for Hay River North?

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 55, Tabled Document 443-18(3), Tabled Document 444-18(3), and Committee Report 17-18(3), and would like to report progress; and that consideration of Committee Report 17-18(3) is concluded, with three motions adopted; and that Bill 55, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, is ready for third reading; and that consideration of Tabled Documents 443-18(3) and 444-18(3) are concluded, and that the House concur on those estimates, and that an appropriation bill to be based thereon be introduced without delay; and Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Do I have a seconder? Member for Yellowknife Centre. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed?

---Carried

Masi. Item 22, third reading of bills. Minister of Justice.

Bill 30: An Act to Amend the Human Rights Act
Third Reading Of Bills

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South, that Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Human Rights Act, be read for the third time, and Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The Member has requested a recorded vote. The motion is in order.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

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Page 5788

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

June 4th

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Question has been called. All those in favour, please stand.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

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Page 5788

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Thebacha, the Member for Hay River North, the Member for Sahtu, the Member for Yellowknife North, the Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, the Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Yellowknife Centre, the Member for Deh Cho, the Member for Nunakput, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, the Member for Range Lake, the Member for Great Slave, the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, the Member for Hay River South.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

June 4th

Page 5788

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. All those opposed, please stand. All those abstained, please stand. The results of the recorded vote: 16 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions.

---Carried

Bill 30 has had its third reading. Third reading of bills. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Bill 44: Forest Act, Withdrawn
Third Reading Of Bills

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Page 5788

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to discharge the order for the third reading of Bill 44, Forest Act, and have the bill withdrawn from the order paper. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 44: Forest Act, Withdrawn
Third Reading Of Bills

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Page 5788

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to discharge the order for the third reading of Bill 44, Forest Act, and the bill to be withdrawn from the order paper. Are there any nays?

---Unanimous consent granted

Bill 44 is removed from the orders of the day. Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

June 4th

Page 5789

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

Orders of the day for Wednesday, June 5, 2019, at 1:30 p.m.:

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  6. Acknowledgements
  7. Oral Questions
  8. Written Questions
  9. Returns to Written Questions
  10. Replies to the Commissioner's Opening Address
  11. Petitions
  12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  14. Tabling of Documents
  15. Notices of Motion
  16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  17. Motions
  18. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 58, Justice Administration Statutes Amendment Act

  1. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 57, An Act to Amend the Employment Standards Act

  1. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 38, Protected Areas Act

- Committee Report 18-18(3), Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Review of Bill 38: Protected Areas Act

- Minister's Statement 151-18(3), New Federal Infrastructure Agreement

- Minister's Statement 158-18(3), Developments in Early Childhood Programs and Services

- Tabled Document 442-18(3), 2030 NWT Climate Change Strategic Framework 2019-2023 Action Plan

  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 55, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 1

  1. Orders of the Day

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

June 4th

Page 5789

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. This House stands adjourned until Wednesday, June 5, 2019, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 9:35 p.m.