This is page numbers 6031 - 6090 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was tax.

Topics

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6079

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We were able to get a couple of exemptions when we proposed our approach to the federal government. Obviously, a big one would be aviation, because our main mode of transportation up here is aviation. The second one, which I think will be a great benefit to folks in the Northwest Territories is the heating fuel, which is rebated at the point of purchase. I think that is huge, especially for the climate that we live in. Sometimes when you live in the Northwest Territories and you live in bigger centres, you are kind of out of touch with the reality of living in some of the smaller communities and the challenges that that proposes. They are the ones that would use the most heating fuel.

To the Member's question, though, that heating fuel rebate will also apply to the municipalities. Their heating fuel purchases would be rebated at the point of purchase. We have not considered the Yukon's model, and I am not even aware of exactly what that model is, but ours is at the point of purchase, which is a big cost factor for a lot of our municipal governments, especially in the colder climates, that they spend on heating fuel. We were able to propose that in our approach to Canada, and they accepted that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

This information is information from the media, so it may not be in the kind of detail that the Minister would appreciate, but what it says here is that municipal governments will pay 2.5 percent of the total tax -- I take that to mean all types of fuels, not only heating fuel -- and receive 3 percent of the revenues. Did the government consider a similar approach? Thank you.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am not fully versed on the details of the Yukon plan. Obviously, there is a difference between taking in revenues and giving it back out versus the point-of-purchase rebate that we are doing for heating fuel, as well as some of the other programs that we have available that community governments could take advantage of. For example, we have a government greenhouse gas fund that adds up to $9.5 million as part of the low carbon energy fund that community governments are able to apply for as well, so it is hard to get apples-to-apples comparisons when they are using total revenue versus rebating at point of sale on something like heating fuel. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. Another feature of the Yukon plan is that there are estimates for how much it will cost Yukon families for the price at the pump, and then per household for all fuel types. Are there similar calculations available for the NWT? Thank you.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. When we did the engagement report and the back report, we provided estimates of the average impacts, if you like, by household. It was everything from the direct impacts for things like heating fuel, as well as gasoline for vehicles and those types of things, but also the indirect impacts in terms of the modelling was done to estimate the impact on grocery prices and those sorts of things, and aviation and that. We used that information to help come up with the approach.

I don't have the figure right in front of me, but that was the basis on which we came up with the COLO benefit levels that we did in the case of the Cost Of Living Offset. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. How does the model of the estimated cost to households relate to COLO? Is it one-to-one or half-to-one? How does it relate? Thank you.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

Stewart

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I want to start with that one by saying, every time you're dealing with an average, obviously, if you're a homeowner, it is going to be a different value than if you're a renter in an apartment, for example. You would have to consider the different types of tenure in a housing situation.

That said, I believe that the COLO impacts, plus the point-of-purchase fuel rebate for carbon tax on heating fuel, actually will put us close to a one-to-one. In fact, we should be able to be slightly over that in terms of the average impacts on households, where we would be able to fully offset that impact. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that answer. My next question is: the Minister said that either it was this plan or the backstop. Can he tell us, if this plan is not endorsed, how quickly the backstop would be put into place? Thank you.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We were able to work with the federal government because the original implementation date was July 1st. Because we were still dealing with our piece of legislation, they agreed to push it off to September 1st because we were working on our approach. They could have, in theory, implemented their federal backstop on July 1st until we had ours sorted out, but we have been working with them through all this, so they gave us until September 1st.

If we are unable to do this implementing our own made-in-the-North approach, then I would assume, we would have to have a conversation, that the federal government would implement their backstop as quickly as possible. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6080

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. Given the fact that they will be entering a writ period, as well, would you anticipate that the backstop would be implemented prior to their election? Thank you.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6081

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We can't know for sure. Our intention is that, once we deal with Bills 42 and 43, if approved by the Legislative Assembly, then our approach would be implemented on September 1st. Then, we would have some other provisions in the second bill that we are dealing with to deal with the interim payments on the cost of living offset. As far as writ goes, we are under the assumption that we are going to work to try and get our piece of legislation passed so our approach would be implemented on September 1st. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6081

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Just one last question. I didn't make myself clear in that question. I am asking whether the federal backstop would be implemented prior to the federal election in the event that this plan is not endorsed by Members. Thank you.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6081

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 178-18(3): tanding Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 42: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act and Bill 43: An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act - Government Response, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Again, I would assume that it would be, but I am also confident that this Legislative Assembly would support an initiative that we feel is better for the people of the Northwest Territories than the alternate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.