Committee Motion 189-18(3): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Review of Bill 39: Environmental Rights Act - Coordination of Reporting, Carried

In the Legislative Assembly on August 16th, 2019. See this topic in context.

Committee Motion 189-18(3): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Review of Bill 39: Environmental Rights Act - Coordination of Reporting, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Lastly, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Environment and Natural Resources coordinate to the highest possible degree the required report under the Environmental Rights Act with reporting requirements found in other environmental legislation for which it is responsible. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. The motion is on the floor and has been distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Earlier, I mentioned that one of the improvements in the bill is going to be a state of the environment report that is required. There is state of the environment reporting already taking place, pursuant to the Mackenzie Valley Resources Management Act, part 6, and I guess committee felt that it was important to coordinate these sort of state of the environment reporting efforts no matter what piece of legislation they may be carried out under. Under the proposed forest act, there was supposed to be a state of the forest report, as well. ENR does a good job at pulling these sorts of efforts together. In fact, the Cumulative Impact Monitoring Program, which does do the tracking that feeds into the state of the environment report under the MVRMA, that program is now housed within ENR. I am sure that folks talk back and forth and so on, and maybe those individuals may actually be responsible for doing some of the reporting related to the state of environment report under this new bill, so committee felt it was important to make this recommendation about coordination and collaboration and doing these reports moving forward. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. To the motion.

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Committee Report 27-18(3), Report on Bill 39, Environmental Rights Act?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Committee Report 27-18(3), report on Bill 39, Environmental Rights Act. Thank you, committee. Committee, we have agreed to consider Bill 39, Environmental Rights Act. I will now ask the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources to introduce the bill. Minister.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am here to introduce Bill 39, the Environmental Rights Act. This bill takes steps to modernize and broaden the existing Environmental Rights Act in the Northwest Territories. The bill provides broader rights to:

request an investigation, including clearer timelines and responsibilities of the Minister;
prosecute an offence;
bring forward an action; and
protect employees who have engaged in processes under the Environmental Rights Act.

The bill also requires Executive Council to prepare a statement of environmental values and ensure that departments and select public bodies consider that statement in their decision-making.

Environment and Natural Resources has developed this bill through a partnership process with a technical working group that is comprised of Indigenous governments and organizations. Valuable input was also received from a stakeholder advisory committee, public engagement, consultation with Indigenous governments and organizations, and other Government of the Northwest Territories departments.

The department appreciates all comments and recommendations provided through the Standing Committee of Economic Development and Environment review process. The department is confident that the bill has become stronger with their amendments.

To ensure the public is aware of these modernizations to the Environmental Rights Act, the department will actively promote it through our regular communication methods.

That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I will now turn to the chair of the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment, the committee that considered the bill, for opening comments. Mr. Vanthuyne.

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Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do not have additional comments at this time, other than comments provided previously when I presented the report. I will leave it to other Members, if they care to share comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Minister McLeod, would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, I would, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister McLeod, please introduce your witnesses.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left, I have Dr. Erin Kelly, assistant deputy minister of Environment and Climate Change. To my right, I have Ms. Cherie Jarock, legislative counsel. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 39. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. In my earlier remarks, I mentioned how, during the development of the bill, the public consultations that were held, there were a number of items that the departmental staff had raised, maybe even some expectations, dare I say, because those were brought to the attention of standing committee during the review of the bill. There were expectations raised around an environmental registry, that there would be methods to propose policies, programs, agreements, initiatives, maybe even an ability to comment on those, as well, when they became posted to the environmental registry.

Through the environmental registry, there was some discussion of the ability to make public comments on items that were posted there, including draft regulations. There was to be a definition of a right to healthy environment. Public trust was to be established and an obligation placed on GNWT. There was to be dispute resolution. Investigations would be carried out by inspectors.

That is not what people found in the bill when they started to review it. Can someone explain to me why those concepts, those items were dropped or not incorporated into the bill before us? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Kelly.

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Minister mentioned in his opening remarks, we used a partnership approach to drafting these bills. We worked with a technical working group and a stakeholder advisory group. While there were ideas that were presented in our legislative proposal, we worked on what ultimately ended up in the bill with those groups. Some of the things that the Member mentioned were not put in there for various reasons. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Is the department then contemplating bringing any of these items back into the Environmental Rights Act in the future? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Kelly.

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We think that in the future, there would be an opportunity to have a look at the Environmental Rights Act specifically related to the registry that the Member brought up. We will be doing amendments to the Environmental Protection Act. That will be considered through that process. It is anticipated that there would be a registry through that bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Great. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am really pleased to hear that, that the idea of an environmental registry may still be alive. I mentioned that the current act started off as a private Member's bill back in 1990 or 1991. It has been around for 29 years. Requests have only happened four times under it and an investigation only once. When could we expect that the next review of this bill will take place? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe that the next Assembly decided that this was something that they wanted to have a look at this; maybe towards middle to the end of the Assembly, then it is a decision that they would make. As the Member pointed out before, this has been around since 1990, I think he said. Last time it may have been used was 1991, been used four times. I think we have strengthened the bill a bit. We don't know how many more times it may be used because of some of the additions. The next Assembly, when they come in, they can make a determination if they want to have another look at the Environmental Rights Act. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister's remarks. Of course, we can't bind a future Assembly to do anything. Given that this act has only really ever received comprehensive review in 29 years, hopefully, we can find other ways to ensure that we keep up to date and have best practices here with regard to environmental rights.

Along those lines, one of the recommendations from standing committee was that the department perhaps can and should find better ways to promote environmental rights with the use of the current act and the changes that we are going to bring forward for consideration shortly. How can the department better promote environmental rights and the use of the rights as defined through this legislation? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Kelly.

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The department will use communications tools to alert the public to the amended act. There are multiple ways that we can do that through the web and other methods. We will take an approach that will get this information out to the public. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That information the department is looking to put on its website perhaps to better promote this, will that include maybe a plain-language version of how a request for environmental investigations can be made and other provisions in the bill? Is that the sort of thing that would get promoted in plain language? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister McLeod.

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Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Environmental Rights Act, there would be a lot of technical talk that is in there. I think we would owe it to the general public to prepare a plain-language summary as to some of the contents of the Environmental Rights Act. It would be very technical, so we would work to prepare a plain language summary. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Those are all of the general questions and comments that I have for now. I look forward to the clause-by-clause review. I have a few items that I may speak to there. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Next, we have Mr. McNeely.

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Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the whole area of consultation, engagements, feedback, publication and awareness, environmental protection, it leads me up to a few comments and highlighting some of the initiatives undertaken by the Sahtu Regional Organization in the area of just recently preserving the Rampart Wetlands. There is a stewardship training program under way, and the recognition of the Great Bear Lake biosphere is another initiative.

The jobs related to preservation and environmental stewardship give me comfort that it's a collaborative effort. This department has engaged with several organizations, including the PW Technical Working Group. That venue is being utilized and exchanging of information and incorporating concerns moving ahead for environmental rights protection. I am confident that this work has done its job in collaboration with stakeholders. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. McNeely. I'll take that as a comment. General comments? Does committee agree that there are no further comments?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Can we proceed to a clause-by-clause review of the bill?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. There are 24 clauses in the bill. We will consider the clauses individually. Please turn to page 5 of the bill. Clause 1.

---Clauses 1 through 17 inclusive approved

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Clause 18. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have some questions that I would like to ask the Minister on clause 18.

This is the part of the bill where a statement of environmental values would be created by the Executive Council. Section 18, though, provides that a Minister of a department or an agency shall take every reasonable step to ensure that a statement of environmental values prepared or amended under section 17 is considered whenever decisions that might significantly affect the environment are made by the department or body. Can someone explain to me how that determination of significantly affect the environment will be made? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Kelly.

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The decision would be made by the Minister or the deputy Minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. While I appreciate the response, that is not what I actually asked. I said: how will the decision be made? Is there a set of criteria? How will a determination be made, whether something significantly affects the environment? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Kelly.

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister or deputy Minister, on a case-by-case basis, would take into account what was relevant to that decision. Criteria are not in any other corresponding legislation or bills from any jurisdiction. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is interesting, because there is now some significance criteria actually incorporated into the bill as a result of an amendment that the Minister accepted during clause-by-clause review. Clause 9 has now been amended, providing some criteria for the Minister to consider when determining whether something is likely to cause significant harm to the environment. They include, as now provided for in the bill, magnitude of the effect; geographical area of the affect; duration of the effect; degree of reversibility of the effect; nature of the effect; likelihood that the affect will occur; sensitivity of the receiving environment; and any other factors that the Minister considers relevant.

This was not something that the committee itself had cooked up. These were developed by the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board to help guide them in making significance determinations, and they have been in use now for a while. We felt it was helpful to have some kind of criteria to help make that kind of decision. The Minister has now accepted those criteria in making a determination about whether there is going to be significant effects, harm to the environment, and whether an investigation should be carried out into it.

I guess what I am hearing, though, is that the Ministers and the heads of departments, in deciding whether something significantly affects the environment, there are no criteria. It is all going to be decided on a case-by-case basis. I am not sure that that is a great place for us to be.

I am not sure if my friends at the witness table have anything else that they would like to add. I am hoping that we can probably move beyond just a case-by-case decision. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Dr. Kelly.

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In discussions with the technical working group and stakeholder advisory group, it was determined that having the flexibility for the Minister and deputy to consider whatever factors they felt necessary at the time was the way to go. We have agreed for criteria specific to investigations, but not for these decisions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly.

August 16th, 2019

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I don't agree, and I'll be bringing forward a motion, if I may, then, with regard to clause 18.

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The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 189-18(3): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Review of Bill 39: Environmental Rights Act - Coordination of Reporting, Carried

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