Thank you, Mr. Norn. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Consideration of the departmental summary has been deferred. Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, can you please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Committee, you have agreed to review the Department of Finance next. Does the Minister wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber? Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce her witness?

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is Sandy Kalgutkar, the Deputy Minister of Finance.

Thank you. Welcome, Mr. Kalgutkar. Committee has agreed to forgo general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?

Committee, we will defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning at page 26 with information systems shared services with information item on page 27. Department of Finance, any comments? Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes. A couple of areas here. If you look at page 27 in the capital estimates, some of this looks like it's related to the Yellowknife airport, at least one item here. Is this money that's coming out of the revolving fund? How does this relate to the use of the revolving fund? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a committee that's responsible for all of the technology management systems within the Government of the Northwest Territories, and they have a budget assigned to them for such projects as that at the airport, as well as you'll see here, items for corrections, items for cultural places. It's that set budget is where this money is coming from. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Is the money for this project coming out of the revolving fund, or it's just being parked in Finance? Where does the money actually come from for this work? Thanks.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was actually just trying to see if it's showing, listed here. Anyhow, no, it has nothing to do with the revolving fund, Madam Chair. That's not being touched for this purpose. There is, again, it's the set amount that's allotted to new information technology products. I'll let Mr. Kalgutkar confirm the number that that comes from. It's that budget that sits in Finance and information shared services for use for all the projects that come through the committee that then determines which of the technical projects, or information technical projects should go forward. Again, I don't want to get the number wrong, Madam Chair, so I'll just see if the deputy minister has it. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Kalgutkar.

Thank you, deputy minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Much like the Mackenzie Valley fibre line that has brought a point of access to communities up and down the entire Mackenzie Valley, this now, will extend that all the way to Tuktoyaktuk so that there is that point of access. It's the backbone of the system, backbone of bringing the line up to the community, and it provides, it certainly will provide in terms of healthcare and education and the other government services that the government can be a customer of, and then with respect to residents in their homes. There's recently been the CRTC announcements supportive of a Northwestel application. That's where that final last mile, if you will, their point of home connection will take place, but this specific project from the government's point of view, makes that other part possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I've heard this, we've had this debate and discussion before, and we need a real plan to bring affordable and accessible broadband to all of our communities, not just building lines and ending them. It's like building a water line in a community, but nobody can use it. Is there any money in here for actually developing even a plan or a costed proposal of some sort for broadband across the Northwest Territories for all of our communities? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. No, Madam Chair. This is not an operational component of the budget. This is not the work. This budget doesn't speak to the work that goes on in ISSS or through the Chief Information Officer's office, which is responsible for ensuring that broadband is accessible and available to the greatest extent possible. This is an infrastructure item, so it really is just speaking to the infrastructure project that is under consideration and under planning to bring access to the fibre line into the community of Tuktoyaktuk. That is what this is. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. If this is not the place where I would expect to find work and money to support the development of a broadband plan for the whole Northwest Territories, where would I find it in the budget, in the capital budget? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Government of the Northwest Territories is not an Internet service provider. If the 19^th Assembly decides that the Government of the Northwest Territories should become an Internet service provider, that's a very different conversation. The capital plan budget that is here right now is: this plan is demonstrating the next significant step in terms of extending broadband access, fibre access, right up to the Arctic Ocean. There certainly are other projects that are being contemplated and discussed, some of which will be potential capital plan projects that will come through in a future year.

At this point, this is the project we have here. Internet service aspect of it, that involves ensuring that the CRTC's approval of ongoing projects through Northwestel or other smaller service providers. I'm certainly happy to speak to those, but I don't know that this is necessarily the moment in which to do that. If that's the question, then I can get back and provide more information about that Internet service provision and where we fit into it. As far as the capital planning, right now, this is the next step for us in terms of providing better fibre access in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. This could be more of a comment. If we have to wait for the CRTC and Northwestel to develop broadband for all of our communities, it's probably not even going to happen in my lifetime. The federal government and throne speech on lots of other occasions have talked about almost becoming like a right within Canada. There is a need for equitable access to the Internet, and we saw that with the pandemic, with distance education needs for our youth and the education system. Even applying for CERB online, whatever, people have to have equitable and affordable access to broadband across the country.

If we don't have a plan together, a costed plan, to take to the federal government, we're going to miss the boat again on federal funding like we did with housing. I just cannot stress enough to my Cabinet colleagues: we need that plan. It's not just me saying it. It's people like Just Recovery, Our Time, people across the Northwest Territories who want and have a right to access affordable Internet and telecommunication services. Where is the plan to develop that? There is no money in the budget to do it. I don't know what else to say, Madam Chair. We have to get that plan together, and the sooner the better so you folks in the Cabinet side can go to Ottawa and start to get that money. Thanks, Madam Chair. That's the big capital project that our government should be pursuing right now. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is so much going in this file right now, and I was only hesitating to get into it because we're doing capital review, the capital plan that I have in front of me that we've actually got a plan for that we can move forward and get an approval so that we can get this out to contract and to tender. There is fibre to Whati that is under consideration. There is the fibre line coming up the Dempster to provide redundancy. There is the prospect of redundancy coming out of Fort Resolution which is still fairly theoretical but would give redundancy to Yellowknife. There really is a lot happening, but it's not a stage where I can come forward with a capital plan where I can give you a cost estimate and say that, in three years from now, there will be shovels on the ground to start laying that line.

This is a plan that gives projects of that nature but in terms of the bigger picture, concepts, as I say, I don't want there to be any misconception in the public that the government's not aware, that the government isn't looking at the kinds of things that I've just described and that I am not having those conversations, which I am, with federal Ministers. Just recently, in fact, had that conversation with the federal Minister because the UBF, the broadband fund is going to be opening up again soon. We do want to be there, and we want to be at the front of the line with visionary plans. A visionary plan isn't the same as a capital plan. That was my only hesitancy, but it's not for lack of having a vision. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Before I ask my question, I just want to echo what my colleague has said in that I do believe that Internet is becoming very clearly a Canadian right, not in the sense that streaming movies is a right, but in the sense that the pandemic has shown us that access to information, which in this case information means life or death, access to information was very much solely on the Internet, especially as information was coming out daily. It was changing hourly, and we're still in a situation where, even last week, with the announcement of: if you've been in this place and this place between these times, then you need to get yourself off the street and get yourself checked out and get yourself into self-isolation. That was distributed over the Internet, and if we did end up with a community outbreak, we would need people to know. We would need people to have access to that information for their health and safety.

I'd like to echo also equitable access to education. Education is a Canadian right and education was for the most part solely delivered online during the lockdown of the pandemic. Whether or not schools were producing paper documents, there was a distinct difference between what kids were getting access to online versus what they were getting access to in paper documents. Beyond that, go to economic recovery, our economic development. Internet is a huge piece of that. I think we definitely need to put our weight behind this one, and we definitely need to not be the last people in line.

From there, I'd like to go onto cell service. One of the things I've heard frequently since starting this job and growing up in the North I've always known it, there are places as soon as you get that one pretty pink rock, you're not getting cell service anymore. You're not getting it until you get just past the quarry there. What I'm wondering is: we lose people every single year on the road to Behchoko. The Member for Monfwi has had to pull over and save a life because he luckily had a sat phone. I don't travel with a sat phone. I'm wondering where pieces for those missing cell service links are within this capital plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree with everything the Member is saying. I agree with everything that was said by MLA O'Reilly, as well. I don't want to make it seem like I'm not in agreement. I am, but I also want to reassure the public that I hear what they are saying and that we're taking some action on it. With respect to mobility, yes, that was raised by MLA Lafferty and some work was done. ISS did go out and do some costing of what it would look like. I don't have those numbers here in front of me, but I will commit to getting them. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Is there a plan for when different pieces of highway infrastructure within the Northwest Territories will see cell service at different points over the life of this Assembly? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have it right now in the capital plan that's being proposed in front of us today. This is a capital plan that was put together on information that had been already developed and analyzed long before the issues came back again. Certainly, in the last round, in June, and the questions around where we were at on our cell service. Honestly, I can't say right now, Madam Chair, I just know that it's not in this capital plan. It may well find its way into the capital plan because, again, I don't have the numbers in front of me. Maybe I'll see if the deputy Minister has recollection of what they are. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Kalgutkar. Any further comments?

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I have the numbers. I remember receiving that email soon after our last conversation about it from the Minister, and I appreciate that. She's consistently prompt, which is appreciated. My question, though, is not how much it's going to cost, it's where is it? That's what I'm looking for is: what is the long-term plan for that one? I don't pretend that putting together a capital plan is an easy venture by any means and that it can be very difficult to decide what a priority is. Both broadband Internet and cell service, in my opinion, are huge safety features, and safety should always be first and foremost, I think, in a capital plan. That's all I have to say, just a comment. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Noting the time, I am just wondering if there is going to be more. Member for Frame Lake.

Madam Chair, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude this item on the agenda before we hit the deadline.

Noting the clock, committee, I will now rise and report progress. Thank you to the witness and your witness. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witness from the Chamber.

May I have the report of the Committee of the Whole, please? Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.