What is the will of committee? Mr. Norn.
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In the Legislative Assembly on October 28th, 2020. See this topic in context.
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Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to deal with Tabled Document 181-19(2), Capital Estimates 2021-2022, for the Departments of Health and Social Services and Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Marsi cho, Madam Chair.
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
I will call committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to resume consideration of Tabled Document 181-19(2), Capital Estimates 2021-2022, with the Departments of Health and Social Services and Municipal and Community Affairs in that order. Does the Minister of Health and Social Services wish to bring any witnesses in?
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce her witnesses?
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. With me today are Deputy Minister Bruce Cooper and Director of Infrastructure Perry Heath.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you. Committee has agreed to forego general comments, so is committee agreed that we will proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Committee, we will defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary, beginning with administrative and support services on page 30, with information items on page 31. Are there any questions or comments? Member for Yellowknife North.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see there are a couple of pharmacy information systems here. Can I just get information on when we will be able to do prescriptions online and whether this software will include those capabilities? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am not aware that this replacement will include prescriptions online, but I will ask the deputy minister if he can clarify when that might happen. Thank you.
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Cooper
Thank you, Madam Chair. This investment is intended to replace an in-hospital pharmacy management system, to bring the standard for the Northwest Territories for all of our major facilities up to the same standard and to improve management in the actual facility. This will not achieve any operability with online ordering, except within the context of the intranet of the facilities. Thank you.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Are there any further questions or comments to this section? Seeing none, I will call the activity. Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, infrastructure investments, $1,366,000. Does committee agree?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you, committee. We will now turn to Health and Social Services programs on page 32, with information items on page 33. Questions or comments? Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
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Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. There is a medical equipment here that says "various" for biomedical evergreening. Which communities will this affect? Marsi cho, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you. It's my understanding that it varies across the NWT, but if you want to know for your riding, then I will ask Mr. Heath if he can answer. Thank you.
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Heath
Thank you, Madam Chair. The medical equipment evergreening program affects every community in the Northwest Territories. It is based on our overall inventory of all of our health assets. Year over year, depending on the life cycle of a particular piece of equipment, we do initiative and replacement programs, so it affects each and every health centre in every community across the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
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Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
No, nothing further. It's just good to know that it does affect all of us. Whenever I see "various," it always makes me wonder if it will affect my riding. It does in this case, so thank you.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Are there any further questions or comments to this section? Member for Hay River South.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to go to long-term care facilities. I am pleased to see that 48 beds are in there for Hay River. I just want to confirm: at what stage are we with respect to design on that facility?
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. Design is currently on hold for that facility. We need to go over what it will cost to build. Construction costs have gone up, and we have identified a shortfall of $31.5 million for the long-term care facilities in Hay River and also in Inuvik. We need to recalibrate where we're at with costs and come back with an adjustment to our plan. The short answer is: it's on hold. Thank you.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. With the building that goes up there, will that be tied into the existing 10-unit extended care, long-term care facility there now? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. It's my understanding that there will be a connection between the current Woodland Manor and what will become a new long-term care facility that is currently the H.H. Williams Hospital in need of demolition, once the replacement for the administration building is completed for Hay River.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to the administration building, when do we expect that to be completed and the people who are in the hospital right now, the old hospital, to be moved over?
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you for that question. I am going to ask Mr. Heath to provide that detail. Thank you.
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Heath
Thank you, Madam Chair. The work on the administrative building is progressing very quickly in Hay River and very good. It is anticipating that, as early as this spring, we will be in a situation where we can move staff in there. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. Is there any time frame, or what is the timeframe to knock down the old hospital? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Heath
Thank you, Madam Chair. The hope is: if everything all goes well, as soon as we move the staff out of that building, we will be in a position to initiate demolition and reclamation of the site, i.e. this spring. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. Will the new facility be able to accommodate dementia patients and at what levels? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. It's my understanding that all new builds will be what they call "dementia compatible," which means there will be security features in place to keep dementia patients safe. Thank you.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. What will happen with the existing Woodland Manor? Are there any plans to do renovations or retrofits to that, and what would the purpose of it be? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to refer this question to Mr. Heath.
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Heath
Thank you, Madam Chair. The intention is that the new 10-bed and in the older portion of it will continue to be a long-term care facility. We are hoping, though, that we can leverage the kitchen and laundry facilities in the new development to essentially reduce the reliance on the kitchen and laundry that is in the existing facility. The hope is that we will continue to deliver long-term care in that facility for quite a while. There is currently some work happening on that facility, actually, on the heating system, to help prolong its longevity. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to go back to the first comments the Minister made, that is with respect to putting the facility on hold due to the costs. Where are we with that? How far along are we in looking at what we are going to do with that? What is the cost? What does the lack of funding mean to the facility? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. The department is in the process of reviewing the 2015 costs and bed projections. It is currently a confidential document. The results need to be validated with communities and the plan refreshed, and so that work is ongoing now and will be completed early next year. Thank you.
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Rocky Simpson Hay River South
Thank you, Madam Chair. Those are all the questions I have for now. Thank you.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am in general happy to see these long-term care facilities and us moving along on this path. I know this is very significantly in demand. I am wondering if there are federal dollars attached to these facilities. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. It's my understanding that the long-term care facilities are funded solely by the GNWT. I am just going to look at Mr. Heath and see. Yes, he is nodding. It's true. Thank you.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. When I look at the $60-million price tag of this section, I am hesitant to spend this money. I know, the federal government, it's not necessarily always their prerogative to fund health infrastructure, and sometimes getting that funding can be difficult. I do know that the federal government is looking at revisiting long-term care facilities. This has been a serious issue during the pandemic. Perhaps the Minister can speak to any conversations that have happened with the federal government or if there is an opportunity to go and get federal government to subsidize some of this significant cost. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. My deputy minister would have a greater depth of knowledge on this than I do, so I would like him to respond, please.
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Cooper
Thank you, Madam Chair. We have in the past raised the issue of long-term care bed needs and tried to support the work of, particularly, Indigenous partners in advancing this as an issue with the federal government. This is something that was advanced to the last federal government, not something that we have revisited in the past 12 months, I would say, but certainly, we have in the past raised the issue. It is a complicated one because to say yes to NWT, of course, becomes a macro-policy across the country. Every jurisdiction is challenged with the program implications of an aging population. It's certainly not something we got a yes to. Thank you.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I will reiterate. We are setting out our plan to build millions of dollars of long-term care units over the next few years. That is very much needed, but I am worried about, in the next year or two, the federal government coming out with another huge plan to revisit long-term care in light of COVID, in light of the deaths that have happened, so I don't want to set down that path where we are spending 100 percent GNWT dollars and not tapping into those federal dollars. Obviously, it seems that those are not quite there, yet. Perhaps I could just have the Minister, as we look forward on this path to a commitment, reach out to the federal government, that we are looking to build this and we are looking to follow their standards, but we would like their assistance. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. As the Premier likes to say, we are never going to say no to federal dollars. I do want to assure, as well, that this is incremental spending. Not all the beds are planned to be built in the same year. They are mostly four- or five-year projects that start from design and to the RFP and to the occupancy. If the federal government offered us money in a year from now, that could still be used in the plan to create these beds. Thank you.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. Moving on, I see "Yellowknife vulnerable persons shelter," and I assume "Investing in Canada Infrastructure Plan" below that means that there are federal dollars attached to that. I am happy to see that. There are a number of debates right now in Yellowknife regarding a day shelter and a temporary day shelter. Can I just get some more information on what the Yellowknife vulnerable persons shelter is? Is this meant to be a permanent day shelter? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. That is exactly what it is. It's a permanent shelter that will offer programming, housing supports to the vulnerable population in Yellowknife. Thank you.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see that this is estimated to be completed in 2022-2023. Obviously, this cannot come fast enough, given the needs of our vulnerable population. I am very happy to see this in here. Can I get a sense: do we know how many people this is expected to be able to accommodate at one time? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have seen numbers for the housing portion but not for the day shelter program area, so I will ask Mr. Heath to comment on that. Thank you.
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Heath
Thank you, Madam Chair. The current estimates are approximately 50 in the day shelter portion. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I get a sense of how many -- 50 in the day shelter area, which is good. It does not quite meet the demand that our other day shelters are presenting or offering right now. Can I confirm that there will also be shelter beds? How many were you expecting in shelter beds? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you. I'll ask the director of infrastructure to comment on that, please.
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Heath
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just for clarity, the day shelter is programming for approximately 50. For the sobering centre, which is the sleeping component, is currently running in the order of magnitude, 27 to 30.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm happy to see a permanent shelter in Yellowknife being built by us. I'm happy to see that it's federal dollars. Perhaps, can I just get a commitment from the Minister to provide -- I recognize this is a few years away from being completed. There's a lot of steps in between -- but a commitment to provide the community on social development some more information about what is being planned here? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. If the Standing Committee on Social Development invites me to brief them on this project, I'd be happy to do so. Thank you.
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Jackie Jacobson Nunakput
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regards to the body-holding facility for my home community of Tuktoyaktuk, re: a morgue, what time is that going to be hitting the community because, right now, this past summer, we had so many deaths. The morgue is unacceptable, and it was left to the hamlet to provide that service to the Hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk. It needs to be replaced, and when can we get that? Can we get that before spring? Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. This plan is for the fiscal year that begins April 1st next year, and that's when the money is allocated. To the best of my knowledge, it will be built at the beginning of the next fiscal year. Thank you.
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Jackie Jacobson Nunakput
Thank you, Madam Chair. No. That's good to see because April starts warming up anyway. It's been a tough year in that aspect for my community. On our upcoming tour with the Minister, I look forward to hearing from our communities, too, that need upgrades and stuff like that. Another question, you know how I am about my elders staying home and being able to age at home. Again, with Inuvik having the 48 beds plus the 25 they have already, I thank the staff in Inuvik at the elders' facility at the hospital. I still want to work with the Minister for our communities of Ulukhaktok in looking at getting our long-term facility, our six beds there, and going through this special pot of money, the $60-million worth of community initiative to build that. Does the Minister have any appetite to work with us in the community of Ulukhaktok to get an elders' facility within these next three years? Thank you.
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Julie Green Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. We are very interested in working with the Member to provide ideas for services and facilities in Ulukhaktok to meet the need of the elders' population there, and I look forward to discussing that more with him when I go to his riding in November. Thank you.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions or comments to this section? Seeing none, I will now call the activity. Health and Social Services, health and social programs, infrastructure investments, $59,754,000. Does committee agree?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you, Members. Please return now to the department summary found on page 29. Health and Social Services, 2021-2022 Capital Estimates, $61,120,000. Mr. Norn.