Mahsi cho, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 16-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2019-2020. Mahsi cho, Madam Chair.

Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the tabled document.

---SHORT RECESS

I will now call committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 16-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2019-2020. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here to present the Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2019-2020.

The Supplementary Estimates document proposes an increase of $1.3 million comprised of the following items:

• $418,000 for an enclosed cab snow blower for the Fort Smith airport that is fully funded by the Government of Canada's Airports Capital Assistance Program;
• $400,000 to initiate work under the Surface Structures Adaptation for Climate Resilience project agreement at the Mike Zubko airport in Inuvik. This project is 75 percent funded by the Government of Canada's Disaster Mitigation and Adaptation Fund;
• $280,000 for one vehicle and three patrol boats for the establishment of three protected areas under the Nature Fund agreement, the costs of which are offset by Environment and Climate Change Canada; and
• $200,000 to commence initial environmental assessment and planning work to inform the construction of an all-weather road from Highway No. 4 to Lockhart Lake within the Slave Geological Province Corridor under the National Trade Corridors Fund.

Those are my opening remarks, Madam Chair. I would be happy to answer any questions that the committee might have.

Thank you, Minister. We have agreed to begin with general comments. Does the Minister of Finance wish to bring witnesses into the House? Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses to the Chamber.

Would the Minister please introduce her witnesses?

Thank you, Madam Chair. With me this afternoon, I have Jamie Koe, deputy secretary to the Financial Management Board, and Terence Courtoreille, the director of the Management Board Secretariat.

Thank you. I will now open the floor for general comments, and the Members have ten minutes each. Seeing no general comments, we will proceed to a review of the supplementary estimates by department. We will begin with the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. I will now open the floor to general comments on the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Can the Minister tell us what these three patrol boats are for?

Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There are three jet boats and one truck that are being purchased for the operations and management of three Indigenous and territorial protected areas, the Thaidene Nene, the Ts'ude niline Tu'eyeta -- I am looking over this way for some help -- and Dinaga Wek'ehodi. I will practice over the course of Indigenous Languages Month, Madam Chair.

Member O'Reilly.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that information from the Minister. I understand that this is federal money. What's the term of the agreement, and when is it going to end? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a four-year, four-fiscal-term agreement, so it will be running until 2023. I'm sorry; I'm having trouble hearing the Member, so I think I may have missed some of his question. I will put my earpiece on. I apologize if I didn't hear all of it.

Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I appreciate the response from the Minister. What happens after 2023, if there are capital needs for these three protected areas? As I understand it, there is going to be a master plan or a plan developed for each of these; presumably, there are going to be some efforts to encourage local business development and tourism with these new protected areas. What happens after four years, if there are capital needs for these areas? Are we going to have to go to the federal government cap in hand, or is this something that we would start to fund ourselves? Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a little more faith in the system, perhaps, insofar as the nature of the three protected areas is such that they are investments by the Government of the Northwest Territories as well as the federal government, and in partnership with the Indigenous communities and Indigenous governments of those areas; so I am perhaps a little bit more optimistic as to their future and the future partnerships between the governments.

I can note for the Member that Environment and Natural Resources is continuing ongoing research into the long-term planning in order to make sure that there is a bridge over any funding gaps that might arise after the 2023 point in time, so, while that's not a complete answer, I can assure the Member that the department is alive to his concerns.

Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Thanks to the Minister for those. I have lots of confidence in our Indigenous governments and their ability to protect these areas, plan for them, and so on. I am not as confident, though, when it comes to our government. When I continued to ask questions in the last Assembly about where the money was going to come from and how much our government was prepared to dedicate to Thaidene Nene, for example, I was told that our total commitment was $190,000 a year. That's what I'm concerned about, is our commitment as a government to these areas, not everybody else's. Just to clarify that for the Minister, and I don't expect a response, but I will certainly be watching this very carefully moving forward to make sure that our government continues to invest in these areas as part of our economic diversification. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Madam Chair, I don't have any particular specific reply, other than to reassure that, certainly over the next four years, this is a joint contribution and that the Government of the Northwest Territories continues to contribute and support these protected areas.

Thank you, Minister. Are there any more questions? Mr. Bonnetrouge.

Thank you. Yes, I note in here that Fort Smith airport is getting an enclosed-cab snow blower, and it's listed at $418,000. In the other, climate change ones, you've got three patrol boats and a vehicle for $280,000. I'm not sure what kind of a snow blower this is. Can you provide some details as to why this is $418,000? Mahsi.

We're on the $280,000 commitment. Are there questions for the Minister, Member Bonnetrouge, on the Environment and Natural Resources stewardship and climate change, not previously authorized, $280,000 commitment? Okay. Committee will begin at page 6 of the details. Environment and Natural Resources, environmental stewardship and climate change, not previously authorized, $280,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. Environment and Natural Resources, environmental stewardship and climate change, not previously authorized, $280,000. Does committee agree?

We will now go to page 7. Information asset management, not previously authorized, $200,000. Does committee agree?

Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Can someone tell me what this $200,000 for initial work on an environmental assessment, what that is actually going to be spent on and what is it going to accomplish? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is the contribution of the GNWT towards the project. A larger proportion of the amount is being funded by the federal government under the National Trade Corridors Fund. This was a successful application by the Government of the Northwest Territories for this partnership with the federal government and, as a totality, this part of the Slave Geologic Province will fund quite a number of things. There will be the initial environmental assessment, which will include studies of everything ranging potentially from water, water use, water quality, wildlife, permafrost, fish studies, air quality, as well as business opportunities using both scientific method as well as traditional knowledge. There is some pre-planning work that is to be done in terms of engineering, although the root analysis has been determined under prior funding. The next stage is actually to bring the matter to being shovel-ready.

As well, of course, and perhaps most importantly, is consultation with Indigenous governments, and to ensure that there is a thorough consultation plan in place, and that that work gets under way so that all Indigenous governments and Indigenous communities are a part of this process from the earliest possible stages. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Thanks to the Minister for that. What is the total cost of this project? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The total cost, year over year, I can give the cost. In terms of 2019-2020, the total cost is $200,000; then, going forward, it reaches $40 million over the course of the four-year plan. I assume that that was the timeline that the Member is asking. I'm prepared to go into other detail if he's looking for other numbers.

Thank you, Minister. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I would like the total amount to construct this project. I understand that the planning phase, so to speak, phase 1, is $40 million. What is the cost for the rest of it? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am aware that there have been studies compiled and work has been done. I would just like to confirm what stage those numbers are at in terms of their publication. As I said, I can confirm that this is a $40-million estimate for phase 1 of the project. There are other phases to the project, and I'll just confirm the status of those numbers and, if I can release them, I certainly will. I apologize. I'm not familiar enough with where those studies are at.

Thank you. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm trying to understand what the Minister said. Is she going to be able to provide to the House information on the total cost of this project, and that that will come shortly? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Madam Chair, as I've just said and I'll say it again, as soon as I can confirm whether or not the cost estimates are confidential, then, if they're not, I will be more than happy to bring them to the House.

Thank you, Minister. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Can the Minister tell us whether there is actually a full project description or a business case for this project? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, there was. In order to partake in the Trade Corridors Fund, there was a complete business case assessment done. It was my understanding that quite a bit of that information was shared during the last Assembly, but I'm sure that what was sent to prior committees can be resent to the current committees as they are constituted, so that the information about the business case can be provided.

Thank you, Minister. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I was a Member of the last Assembly and we received a lot of information, some of which was about this particular project, but I don't actually ever recall seeing a business case for it. If the Minister can commit to share that, that would be great. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Madam Chair, as I've said, I am confident there has been a cost benefit analysis and a business case provided. What I will do first is to identify what was shared with the last committee, ensure that the current composition of the committees have that information available to them, and certainly, if what was shared before was unsatisfactory, then we'll have to go back and confirm so that the committee can be assured of the analysis of the cost benefits, of the very positive cost benefits, of the Slave Geologic Province to the Northwest Territories.

Thank you. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Just a couple, or one last question, perhaps. Can the Minister tell me whether any of this $200,000, or indeed any of the $40 million, is actually going to be used to protect caribou and their habitat? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Certainly, as I mentioned, in order to have this project being shovel-ready, it will require baseline studies to understand the current situation facing the wildlife in the area and in the region, as well as conducting whatever studies will be no doubt required for the environmental assessment process that I expect would be required for this kind of level of project. That part of the money will be going precisely to do that, to engage in that process, to engage in that study, to ensure that we have the baseline data, and to ensure that we are prepared, going forward, with an environmental assessment so that this project can move forward in a way that is respectful of all of the needs of all the people in the territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member O'Reilly.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I need to be clear, here. In the last Assembly, I said that I don't support this particular project when we don't have a comprehensive plan in place and funded to protect the Bathurst caribou herd, which is down to 8,200 animals. Until our government gets serious about habitat protection and has that plan fully implemented, in place, funded, and so on, I will not be supporting this expenditure of funds. We can't have an all-weather road through critical habitat, including the Nunavut portion, which is a slightly different project, go through the calving grounds of this herd, when they are at such a low level, so I won't be supporting this. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Madam Chair, I appreciate the Member's candid remarks. I can only assure the House, broadly speaking, that this is a project that is of tremendous significance to the Northwest Territories. It is, as I understand it, supported over in the Kitikmeot Region of Nunavut. It is being done under a business case and with a cost benefit analysis. It is multi-departmental. It will involve ENR, and it will involve Lands, so I am sure that there will be plenty of opportunity, whether through this project or through the other work of the other departments, to review the impacts on the caribou as it goes forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Johnson.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding is that the business plan and the feasibility of this project is largely contingent on the Grays Bay Port project in Nunavut going ahead. I see here that the environmental assessment is only to take the road to the Nunavut border. Is that correct, that we are conducting environmental assessment as if the Nunavut half is not going ahead?

Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Our environmental assessment takes us to the Nunavut border. As I said earlier, there is going to be, most likely, some partnership ongoing with Nunavut on the Kitikmeot side, but that that portion of it would be, I presume, under their jurisdiction to manage.

The viability of this project and the importance of this project to the Northwest Territories relates entirely to the possibility and the potential within the Northwest Territories. There are believed to be tremendous mineral resources within the Slave Geologic area. This is an opportunity to, in fact, study this area from that perspective, as well as to study this area far more effectively in terms of the wildlife and the environment, and the fish and the waters, so being able to access this entire massive geological region and geographic region more effectively will be of tremendous benefit to the Northwest Territories.

In short, it is not only dependent on what's happening in Grays Bay, but it is also beneficial to the Northwest Territories notwithstanding that it only goes to the Nunavut border. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Johnson.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My concern is that we're seeing here a scoping of the environmental assessment that does not factor in the potential of the Grays Bay half. We know that the Bathurst caribou calving ground is in Nunavut, and caribou do not respect borders, so my concern here is that we are not setting ourselves up for, essentially, the resource boards to say that we have scoped the project wrong. Also, those mineral deposits, and there is no doubt there are minerals there, are largely dependent on the port access, so I question the scoping of this project to not include the entirety of the project. Can the Minister provide us with an update of the status of the Nunavut half of this project?

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a lot to unpack in the Member's comment. I am not in a position, in the context of a supplementary appropriation that is involving the scoping of the Northwest Territories project, to commit to what may or may not be happening on the Nunavut side, other than to assure, again, that this is envisioned as being a partnership with Nunavut. It is indeed something that is of an Arctic nature and putting Canada as a country into being more of an actual Arctic country in terms of actually exploring and connecting all of our Arctic regions. I am confident that there will be ongoing partnership and dialogue with Nunavut and with the Government of Canada.

With respect to transportation of minerals, again, it is not entirely contingent or dependent on Grays Bay. The ability to transport over land would certainly make viable the potential for resource development in the Slave Geologic area. You know, I can't speak to what different mine sites might look like and whether or not a Grays Bay site or whether a transportation corridor over land is going to be more viable for the individual operation. That is theoretical at this point. This is, frankly, exactly why we want, in part, to be doing a proper technical study of the area, to understand exactly what is there and how it can best be accessed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Are there any other questions? Mr. Bonnetrouge.

Yes, getting back to your snow blower.

Next activity. You have to wait. We're only on the asset management. No other questions on this, so I will reread it. Infrastructure, asset management, not previously authorized, $200,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will move onto Infrastructure, programs and services, not previously authorized, $818,000. Does the committee agree? Mr. Bonnetrouge has questions. Snow blower.

Thank you, Mr. Bonnetrouge. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Interestingly, as I understand it, right now at the airport in Fort Smith, they are, in fact, using the grader and snow blower and other machinery, and that by investing with funds that are fully offset by Transport Canada, they will actually be freeing up the machinery to do other work in the community. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Bonnetrouge.

Maybe just to follow up. Because it's a snow blower, it is blowing snow. You've got maybe 100 feet across there. Where are you blowing the snow as you're moving around? Why wouldn't you use the plow and the grader type of thing? I'm not sure about the snow blower myself. If you could just clarify that? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Bonnetrouge. Minister of Finance. Do you want to answer that?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Obviously, the important questions to understand, and I guess the one thing I would point to is that this did go to tender. As far as being the appropriate machinery for purpose, and as being a competitive price for purpose, I would simply point to the tendering process and place faith in that for the purposes of this current appropriation. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Bonnetrouge, did you have any other questions? No other questions. I will go back. Infrastructure, programs and services, not previously authorized, $818,000. Does the committee agree?

Thank you, committee. Infrastructure, total department, not previously authorized, $1,018,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you, Minister, and our thanks to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question has been called. All those in favour? Sorry, I'm ahead of the game. Mr. Norn.