Thank you, Member. Madam Premier. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.

Thank you for your comment. The land tenure issue and the home ownership issue are two different departments. Department of Lands would be dealing with the land tenure, and housing would be dealing with the home ownership program. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We will have to look into it, but I do believe that public-housing units are on their own property, so the land tenure wouldn't be an issue. It would go with them. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

I am hearing a couple of different accounts here. I just want to make sure I get this straight in my head. Do I need to direct this question to the Minister of Lands? I didn't hear that.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I had to get clarification. It has been a couple of years since I was the housing Minister. Housing owns their own property. The housing units that would be transferred to home ownership, the land tenure would go with those homes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I am good here. The Premier answered my question, and I'm satisfied with the answer. Mahsi cho.

We'll move to the Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Like the Premier, my career immediately prior to coming into the Assembly was with housing, a non-profit housing agency, and I just want to talk about the numbers for a second. The first is that a significant portion of the housing stock, something like 30 percent, is 40 years old or older. That means that, out of those 2,400 houses, about 800 of them are going to be finished their useful life within the next 10 years. That's 800 houses. There are 900 people on the waiting list for housing across the NWT; about a third of them are in Yellowknife. Some of those people are on the waiting list because income assistance demands that they be there, but some of those people on those waiting lists need housing. They are not income-assistance recipients; they are low-income earners, or there are no other housing alternatives in their communities.

The next thing I want to say is that the vast majority of high-income earners in public housing are in Yellowknife, and there are no ownership options in Yellowknife. I am really struggling with understanding how 100 houses is going to make a dent in the age of the homes, the number of people on the waiting lists, and the homeownership options that are available in Yellowknife, so I would be very interested to hear from the Premier on these points. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.

There are homeownership opportunities in Yellowknife, our large capital. The homeless assistance program, I can't remember the acronym for it, does help people try to get into their own homes. I'm trying to think if it was income support; I've had too many portfolios, now. Housing does the housing supplement; the rent supplement program is with housing. So the rent supplement program is with the Housing Corporation.

I was in social work for over 20 years and working in Yellowknife with homeless people, and I never even knew about the program, so I think that what we've done wrong, and, again, the government, I've said that for the last four years, the worst thing about the government is we're bad communicators. We're just so busy trying to keep on top of the water that we forget to get things communicated. I think that the rent supplement program needs to be promoted more, out there more, because that helps the majority of middle-income and lower-income families, and then the rent for income support needs to be utilized more for low-income families. Again, the federal government is supposed to be coming with another initiative that they will be providing housing support. Hopefully, that will come through fairly soon, and, if not, then we have an obligation to step up.

So there are housing needs in Yellowknife. There are huge housing needs in Yellowknife. We have to look at expanding our rent supplement, but we also have housing needs in every single small community, and we can't forget the small communities. Because Yellowknife has 100 wait list; the small community, one community might only have 10 people on a waiting list, but those 10 people on the wait list might all be living in one home, and so that is the balance that we always have to meet. We will never have enough to do everything in four years, but we have to start chipping away. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Premier, I am never going to apologize for looking at the needs of Yellowknife residents. The waiting list in Yellowknife is 350 families or individuals; it's even harder to house individuals. I am not saying that housing isn't important in other places; I'm saying housing is important in Yellowknife. Where I live and work in Yellowknife Centre, there is also the largest group of people who are in public housing, and they are not necessarily looking for a rent supplement program. If they are high-income earners, they may be looking at purchasing homes, and it's news to me that public housing will facilitate the purchase of market housing in Yellowknife, the purchase of it; not the rental of it, but the purchase of it. High-income earners prefer purchasing because they are able to acquire an asset, as you did in your own life story. That makes more sense for them in the long run, so, as we often say in this room, one size doesn't fit all. The circumstances in Yellowknife are unique, and they need to be part of this solution of providing more housing, so I want you to consider those needs, as well.

I also want to reiterate the point that my friend from Frame Lake said. I know that 2,400 units has been the ceiling for a long time, but it doesn't make sense for it to be the ceiling indefinitely. The demand is simply too great. We're putting out money for health, we're putting out money for education, we're putting out money for employment, but, if someone doesn't have anywhere to live, then are we really using that money wisely? This is really a place, as my friend from Kam Lake said, for some real innovation, some really out-of-the-box thinking about these big numbers that are about need, about waiting lists, about the age of the existing stock, and coming up with ways to try to make a bigger dent, if at all possible, than 100. I mean, we have to start somewhere. I recognize that, but 100 units with 900 people on the waiting list, you can do the math and see that that's just not enough. That's me rambling on, and I don't have a question. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Would Madam Premier like to respond?

Very quickly, I'm going to try. Absolutely right, we do have to get more. I mean, and there is work. We have to stop thinking that this is only GNWT. If we settle the self-governments, we have self-governments that are wanting to draw down things, so, you know, we have to work with our Indigenous governments and our federal government. We've already gone to Ottawa. We're trying to promote the need for our housing, so it isn't something that we're just looking at as: this is it. I would like to see more than this. I'm trying to be realistic. If, in two years, when we look at the mandate -- not the Ministers; we're not pulling Ministers out. That's not what we agreed to do. We agreed to look at the mandate and see if it's doable. It would be interesting to see where we are and see if we could actually increase it for the last two years. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to if we decide to, I guess, sell off houses in a community, will there be a house there to replace that one? Will it stay in that community? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Thank you for your comment. Going forward, I just want it to be really clear that there seems to be some confusion over the 100 houses that we are to be building during the next four years. The Housing Corporation is really emphasizing Indigenous partnership and hopefully wanting to receive federal funding this year. Looking at the approach going forward, right now, we're looking at our stock that is, currently, we're going to offset them and we're going to turn them over. Our main focus is to enter into a partnership with Indigenous groups, and eventually they would be able to, if we had five units in Hay River, those five units, my first contact would be with Indigenous groups, meeting with them and working in assistance with them, that they would be wanting to take over these units in partnership. Also, at a federal level, the Indigenous groups have the access to a co-investment fund that is offered through the federal government, so for them to come and approach us and for us to achieve the 100 units throughout the Northwest Territories, it's a partnership that I'm wanting to work with. If we were to guide and help and support the Indigenous groups, the stakeholders throughout the Northwest Territories, to meet us halfway with the funding that already exists there, then we are able to multiply on those units. One hundred units doesn't seem very much for the next four years, but 100 units is what we have to work with, and I look at that going forward and wanting to have people enter into homeownership is the main goal of the Housing Corporation and not setting them up for failure, to honestly give them that ownership that these are their homes, and then to try to eliminate and work with that waiting list that we have.

When we're constructing in the communities, if we're taking five units out of Hay River, I want five units back there, working towards that and really looking at we do have social impacts of poverty line, and the list goes on. That really contributes to our problem with the shortage of housing in the Northwest Territories. I hope that answers your question, and I am absolutely passionate about the portfolio, as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister responsible for Housing. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's hard to believe that she's that excited about it. When we talk about 100 units, is there a dollar value to those units? Like, I look at it and I think, well, 100 units, but is it 100 houses that have 10 bedrooms to them, or is it just a dollar value? I expect that we could have more than 100 units. With the way people's lives are changing nowadays, we don't need bigger units anymore, and so I'm expecting that the Housing Corporation will look at that.

The other thing, too, is we talk about the 100 units, but there is also the opportunity for developers in the communities to develop properties and house some of the people who require it, as well. So I guess, when I think of 100, I think that, you know, we could hit 200. It just depends how we do it, and it depends on how much money we have to play with. The partnerships are great. We have to do that; and, with Indigenous groups, that's a no-brainer; we have to have them on-side, but there are other avenues, as well. I'm not sure if there's a question there or not, but anyway, thank you, Madam Chair.