This is page numbers 105 - 162 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

I suspect that I will ask this question at a later time. I think there needs to be some analysis of whether we are just providing $5 million flat or whether we are closing the gap by $5 million, because those are different numbers. My next question is: this is coming in the next three budgets, 2021, 2022, 2023; is the anticipation that those will all be equal amounts of the $5 million and whether it is $5-million-plus? Will it be equally distributed?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Madam Premier.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have agreed to work with the NWT Association of Communities on this. There is a funding formula, but, in fairness, some communities, the $40 million gap is not across the board. Some communities, when they did the assessment, were above. Previous governments said they would be grandfathered. Is it fair that they get another share? Those are questions that we need to work with the association of communities on. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are there any further questions? Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am not sure throwing $5 million at it is going to do anything if we just keep it, try to stop it from growing, because the problem is that our communities have aging infrastructure that we have to deal with and that is what we have to throw money at. I think that we are looking at trying to reduce the debt. I think what we should be doing is trying to just maintain it so it doesn't get any bigger and then try and grow the economy, try and deal with some of the other issues. And it gives us a little time to kind of regroup and really think about the issue. Just a comment. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

All right. I will take that as a comment. Madam Premier, did you want to respond?

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. The only thing I will say is there are three pots; I am trying to remember what they are. It's capital, operating and maintenance, and wastewater? It has been a while since I've been MACA. Water and sewer. The difficulty that I have noticed over the years is that the communities keep screaming, "We need our $40 million, $40 million, $40 million," but we have almost matched them for the operating and maintenance and the water and sewer. The piece that is left is the capital.

However, what they are not including in that is that MACA has done an awesome job over the years of actually getting federal money for the capital. At no time has that federal money been taken into account on this $40 million, and that is what I struggle with as an MLA, is that they are saying, "It's still $40 million; we need the money," but they're not adding the money from the federal government.

Sometimes you have to do this. If you look at our mandates, some of this is about them generating their own, giving them the ability so that they can generate their own. We have to do a better job of communicating that it's not only the GNWT. They need to take into account the federal money. They need to take into account their own ability to earn money. We're all in a tough spot; I think I heard that today again. The only way that we can make money is from royalties, federal government, and taxes, but many of the governments don't want to raise taxes, and neither do we, but we all have to take ownership in this, because not one of us is in a position that we have money growing on trees. We're all in debt. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree. The communities have to do something themselves. We have been doing the same thing, the same way, for years. We have to reinvent ourselves somehow. I guess I think about Hay River, and I look at the bylaws, and I look at all that. People are looking for tiny homes, yet we say you have to build a house a certain size on the lot. Well, times are changing, and we have to make those changes. If we can do that, sometimes if you can maybe reduce the cost a bit, if that brings more people into the North, that's another $30-some-thousand for us. Those are the types of things that we have to do, but those are conversations that this government has to have with the communities as well and let them know that, you know, there has to be some active change here. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Agreed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are there any further questions on the "reduce the municipal funding gap"? Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess my question is: reducing the funding gap by $5 million, if the funds are going to be distributed evenly over the communities, including Yellowknife, how much does that leave for a community? How is it going to be done? Is it going to be done by demand, or is it going to be done per capita, or is it going to be done by -- I would like to know that.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will try to make this short. I wanted to express that, with the funding gap that MACA currently has with the $40 million, we try our best to not let the communities feel that breakdown. We have entered into new opportunities. One of them that I am kind of excited about is the lotteries for the Northwest Territories, that we are taking it over as a government to generate revenue for our sports and recreation, which is probably our largest is expenditure, as well, too, and looking at the water and waste management for the smaller communities, and the upgrades, and land tenure, and looking at the function that they hold as a municipality.

Going forward, I would really like to emphasize the property taxation, as well, too, and really putting out a lot of emphasis on it, so that communities would come to more of a clear understanding, to look at generating revenue at a local level, but I really want to stress that 87 percent of the funding that MACA receives goes out to the smaller communities. We do our best to not let the communities feel that cut, but then, actually looking at the infrastructure that is built, they do have funding that is available to them. They do come up with their own capital plan, their own budget, and they identify how that money is going to be spent at a community local level. I just wanted to make that clear, if that's good. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier, did you have anything to add?

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. What I would like to expand on is, we talked about $5 million, but if you look down further, we are talking about a process to transfer lands. There is a value to lands, when we put that in. For example, when I was the -- I can't remember which Minister I was at the time, but we brought in the hotel tax so that communities could actually take that tax and actually implement that, and it's still not off the ground.

Like the Member had said, we need to work with the governments. We can give it to them, but my worry is, we're going to give them land; we're going to make legislation to make it easier; we're going to give them the $5 million, and they're going to still say, "We're still $35 million short." At some point, we're going to have those tough conversations that says, "This land is equal to that," and a tough conversation that says, "When you got federal government money for your capital, that is equalling off of that." Those are conversations that we have to have, because there is a value to land. There is a value to all of these things that we are doing for them. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't think either one of you has answered my question. I said, is it going to be by need, or is it going to be by per capita, the $5 million distributed?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Madam Premier.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do know that there is a funding formula that is worked on with the NWT Association of Communities. We work closely with them on this. They represent all communities. All communities have a say in that organization, but I will commit to actually finding out more information for the Member. All I know is that we work with them, they help us allocate, and they represent all communities. They allocate where the monies go to, and that is done in partnership. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

So it's not by need; it's by per capita?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.