Thank you, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 12-19(2), 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Mahsi cho.

Does committee agree?

Okay. We will take a short recess.

---SHORT RECESS

All right, I will now call Committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 12-19(2), 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Now we will return to page 30. Does Madam Premier wish to bring any witnesses into the House?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to bring in a witness.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witness to the Chamber. Would the Premier please introduce her witness?

Thank you, Madam Chair. On my right is Mr. Martin Goldney. He is the Cabinet Secretary and the deputy minister for the Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Just to go back to what we decided to go through the mandate, Members, you will have 10 minutes per priority. We are going back to "Increase food security through locally produced, harvested, and affordable food." Questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I had someone approach me, actually, last night who has 48 chickens here in Yellowknife. They would like to give away some of the eggs or maybe even sell some of the eggs locally, but there seem to be some issues around that. How are the items here going to help that individual be able to sell eggs locally? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This might be a little bit more difficult. I kind of feel sorry for the neighbours, 25 chickens next door. We are going to be amending our own regulatory framework so that we can remove barriers to developing food production businesses. Lands will be reviewing its policy and regulations in that regard. However, this might also be a municipal issue, Madam Chair. Therefore, we would need to work with the municipal government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I don't think there is a municipal issue here, at least in this particular instance. Maybe I could just get a little bit more detail about what some of the barriers are right now with the current regulatory framework when it comes to local food production. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If we can direct the question to the Minister of ENR.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Sorry. Thank you, Madam Chair. When we are looking at barriers, it is about trying to work with the communities to see what they want to do, what they want to harvest, and then again it is making sure that we are doing things within the right act, the framework and policies, moving forward. Again, it is about also training some of the staff. It is a mentoring process to it. Again, so these are some of the challenges from ENR's aspect of it. It is about how we work with the governments.

On my other half, it is about the ability to deal with the land. Again, it comes down to our regulations and how we can fix some of these things about agriculture and how do we use that land and how we can work with them to get it. Right now, we have really high rates, but that is from the previous process that we had done, so that is part of the regulation. We are trying to work on those things. Those are a couple of the challenges that we see moving forward.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I think I will start over again. This is a guy who has already got chickens. He has got them here in Yellowknife. There seem to be some issues around food handling, maybe education, inspection stuff. This is not an ENR issue. As I understand, it is probably an environmental health issue, which is health and social services. What are the current barriers, and what are we going to do to improve food handling, inspection services, and so on to allow for local food production and retail? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize for that. There are quite a few departments. You are absolutely right; the department of health will be having to look at some of their regulatory frameworks, as well. For example, people who might want to provide produce or canned preserves in the community market, we would need to do some kitchen because, right now, there is a requirement for an industrial kitchen. Those are things we need to look at: if you are small production, do you need to have that? The other one I know from running the homeless shelter was being able to utilize, I hate to use the term "road kill," is kind of what I know it as, and so that was always an issue, and so meat spoiling because we could not use that meat when, in my case, women were hungry. Those are some of the issues that we need to address as we move forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. That is, I think, more of what I was looking for, and that is probably what this individual is also looking for. I want to go to work on Nutrition North. I do not have any difficulty with what is proposed here, but I think the other thing that is missing, that I do not see here, is that we need to work with Nunavut and Yukon to put pressure on the federal government to design a much better Nutrition North program that does not reward retailers, that actually rewards perhaps producers, local producers, and consumers of food, not retailers. Is that something that this government is going to be doing, as well? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. The three territories have over the years, many years is my understanding, developed strong partnerships when we go to speak to the federal government. We will continue to do so, and I will make a commitment to bring this issue forward to the other two Premiers. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. While I am on a roll, another general observation I would like to offer with this particular mandate item is: there are a few deliverables here, but I had hoped to see some actual targets. Are we going to increase local food production by 25 percent by the end of four years or whatever the target is? I am just wondering: do we actually track local food production and consumption in a way where it is measurable, where we could set targets? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, we cannot put targets such as "improve food production by 25 percent" because we haven't done a base analysis of what actually we are producing. You cannot increase things when you do not know where you stand at the moment. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, okay. Then that is clearly something we need to do, and it needs to be in here. Unfortunately, we cannot change this right now, but I would really encourage, then, that we develop a system of measuring local food production because, if we don't have a way of measuring it, how can we know whether any of these things in here are actually going to improve and increase local food production. Can I get a commitment out of the Premier that we will develop a system of measuring local food production and consumption? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In my opening comments on the mandate, there was a paragraph that says we also recognize that, to better report and meaningfully measure progress, in many cases, we need to establish indicators and improve program evaluation. The work we do towards ambitious goals set in the mandate will include the establishment of new indicators and a greater focus on program evaluation. Madam Chair, as I have said many times, one of my specialties is an accreditation in best practices. Therefore, we are going to be doing more measurable outcomes throughout the GNWT over the next four years. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Great to get that commitment out of the Premier, that she is going to be working and her Cabinet colleagues will be working towards developing ways of measuring local food production and consumption. That was, I think, something that we had recommended in the last Assembly as well when we reviewed the agricultural policy or strategy that was developed in the last Assembly. No further comments, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier, did you have any comments? Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will take that as a comment, and I am looking forward, also, to having measurable outcomes for a lot of areas in the government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I am really encouraged by this mandate, because it just says "small communities." The small community harvesters, they have harvesters' programs that help people go out on the road. Yes, we do have roadkill in Fort Providence. We get the bison. I have had it myself. We made dry meat out of it. It was all good.

This would really help if you had a survey of the hospitals or centres, institutions, of the people who attend those situations, what type of food they would like. It is different all over, for the Dene people, the Inuvialuit. They have certain types of taste, but even for the small communities, because I really hope that they have testing and inspection stations that are in the communities, because that is where the people are, who will do the harvesting and whatnot of the foods.

I am really hoping that that will happen. I just don't know if that is, kind of, the game plan moving forward, or else there is going to be a central station that you have to send your meat to so that it is harvested somewhere else and not in the small communities where you have a lot of harvesters there. We get lots of people who go out on the river, and they can make the dry fish, too, the dry meat out on the river. Plus, some of the elders, too, they like soft foods. There are soft foods like porcupine, the beaver. They like to have boiled fish, probably, in the hospital system. We have to think of all those areas when we are talking about increasing food security.

I am just wondering if you could paint a picture for me, because this will be probably some kind of report by the time that we are done our session. I wish that this could be escalated to move ahead. Can you paint a picture for me of what you envision from your department on how you are going to move on this mandate? Mahsi.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the comments. The Member is absolutely correct. A lot of the harvesting happens in the smaller communities, fishing, hunting, et cetera, but we also have a market in the regional centres as well, for example, our community gardens. I recognize that it is totally different, so this mandate will go across all regions and all small communities.

We talked about how one of our mandates, as well, is regional decision-making, but it is bigger than that. It is about really looking, when we allocate positions, where they are best situated. Thank you, Madam Chair. We will take into consideration the needs of people in small communities as we develop positions.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Deh Cho.

Thank you. Just a final comment regarding the regulatory framework, that I hope they really keep the small communities in mind when you are setting your legislation and everything, because I know that government has a hard time thinking of the small people and how they can move forward, when they are thinking about locally produced and harvested foods. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we will take into consideration as we develop the programs, as we develop all programs, where they are best situated. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to meat inspection, in the past, we had a pig farm there in Hay River, which provided that for sale, and there were regulations in place at that time. Are those regs still relevant to what we have in this mandate? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If I can direct the question to the Minister of Health and Social Services on the current regulations. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do want to talk about, today, the agriculture strategy, which maybe some of the Members are referring to. It is the public health regulations. The question we ask ourselves is: what are we doing as a department to support the agricultural strategy and food security? Our department helps social services, along the Departments ENR, ITI, and Lands, we are all working together to implement the agricultural strategy. Our main goal here is to ensure that public health is protected in the production and sale of local foods. Also, our work supports the priority of this Assembly, of course, to increase food security by facilitating the local production of food and the sale of food.

If I can, I do want to speak a little bit about the Food Establishment Safety Regulations. Changes to the Northwest Territories Food Establishment Safety Regulations under the Public Health Act came into force on August 15, 2019. These changes supported the last Assembly's priority to move forward on this agricultural strategy and also support this Assembly's priority to increase food security. The changes made it clear that farm gate sales of locally grown, low-risk foods are allowed. It also makes it easier for people to sell locally grown and home-produced foods from home and at farmers' markets.

Those are some of the things that our department is working on. I know that we are responsible for the health act and the Food Establishment Safety Regulations, so I just wanted to bring that forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the question was: the meat inspection regulations, are they still relevant today? I think they were in place when we had a pig farm in Hay River, and there was processing going on. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding is that, yes, the meat regulations are still in place, but that is what we are going to be doing: reviewing and amending all regulatory frameworks to look at all barriers. We have to be conscious that safety has to also take a play in that. We are not just going to allow a free-for-all. There has to be a safety element, but some of our regulations might be a little bit too stringent in this modern age, so we will be looking at them all. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The other issue, I guess, is we do have that agricultural strategy in place, and I am hoping that we do something with it. In talking to some of the growers in the area, one of the problems they have is that, in the South Slave, there is no access to land. It is a big problem. They are allowed a little portion there, and they tried to move out past their lot lines there, and I am sure that Lands will go after them at some point for that. I am just wondering if there is anything that we could do in the South Slave to allow some lands to be opened up, even if it is on a yearly basis, to assist in the development of that agricultural sector. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this time, it might be a little bit too early to make a commitment on yes or no. However, Lands is also part of the process that will be reviewing all its policies and regulations to identify the barriers that impede local food production, so they are part of the review that is happening. Again, we have to identify the barriers before we can identify what regulations need to be changed, so I can't make a commitment at this time to say yes, that will happen. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The other thing that was brought up to me, as well, is that some of the producers hire people and they are paying basically minimum wage. They are wondering if there is any financial assistance they can get to offset those wages for workers. The workers may not be there eight hours a day, but they are just looking for some options. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know there might be. I am trying to think on the run here. I believe there may be some work supplement things happening. If not, Madam Chair, I know that anyone who is under a certain income level, even if they are working, can still qualify for income support. If people are low-income, I really recommend that they go and apply to see if there is any support we can give them within the GNWT. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess before my time runs out I had better talk about the fish plant. Basically, where are we on the construction of that? Are we making any headway, or have we begun looking at it again? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

Madam Chair, I would like to transfer it to the Minister of ITI, but if we could ask the Member to repeat his question for the Minister, that would be helpful. Thank you.

Member for Hay River South, could you repeat your question?

With respect to the fish plant, where are we on looking at going forward with the construction of it? I know it was stalled because of pricing, so I am just wondering if we have got a plan in place. I hear rumours, and I just kind of want to get the straight goods from the Premier or the Minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.

I think we talked about this earlier on in session. When the bids came in on the fish plant originally, they were much larger than the GNWT had allocated budgets for. I am seeing here in my notes it was about almost $6 million more than we had anticipated. The last that we discussed was that we are back looking at the actual design of the plant and how we can scale down maybe what was too ambitious of a project to begin with, and how we can bring that design back down under the budgeted price that we had anticipated. I believe that is exactly where we are right now, is revamping that plan. I am just trying to look here if the department has given me a date. I don't have a specific date for that completion, but I can definitely commit to the Member that I would return and get him that information. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.

Like I said, for Hay River, that is a very important industry, and for, I think, communities around the lake. We have got stock there. We don't have to feed it. It is just waiting to be caught and go in the frying pan, so we have to take this seriously. The other thing is that I guess I am concerned that sometimes the expertise we use within the communities, we use the bureaucracy and the bureaucrats who don't quite have that expertise, but they may think they do. I want to make sure that we actually have somebody who knows, who can provide us with some sound advice on how to proceed with this to make sure that it works. Over the years, we have tried and we have tried, and we don't seem to get anywhere. If I can get a comment on that? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister of Infrastructure.

I will keep it really short. We are working with Memorial University out of Newfoundland to work on the design of the fish plant, so we are looking to experts for that advice; but noted. I take the Member's concerns in note and will make sure that they are addressed. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have been looking at this one. Affordable food is so important, and you look at food indexes and the price of just a basic bag of groceries costs in the territories, just insane prices in the small communities. Again, I have said this a couple of times, I always think about the single parents in the small communities, and any sort of fluctuation affects those vulnerable sectors. That is what I would like to see. Right now, I am looking at things like the greenhouses and community gardens. It says they want to ensure supports in this document, so my question to the Premier is: what kinds of supports are we proposing to help out with greenhouses and the lot? Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like the Minister of ITI to answer what kinds of supports are available for greenhouse operations. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Minister for ITI.

Just one moment, please, while I look through my numerous binders here for greenhouses. I know we do have supports in place for greenhouses. My apologies.

Madam Premier?

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, we don't have the information, but we can get back to the Member on the exact types of supports that are available to greenhouses. I know that we are trying to build greenhouses in every community. I don't know the exact support, but we will reply. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the response. It is good to hear, just to find out what we can get. I think, the way I look at it, any sort of ways we can lower the cost of living and groceries. I keep on going back to the example if you are a struggling family and you only have $100 to spend on groceries, it is so much easier to get unhealthy foods. It would be nearly impossible to feed a small family with $100 and try to follow the Canada Food Guide. I am hoping we move in this direction. This is not so much a question, but more of a comment. I hope we keep on moving in that direction, keep chipping away at the costs for our vulnerable sectors. What I mean by that is the single-parent families, our elders, disabled. If we help those, it will be good for everybody across the board, and I am hoping that we keep moving in that direction. That is all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. I will take that as a comment. Are there any further questions on "Increase food security through locally produced, harvested, and affordable food"? Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just get some clarification? The government confuses me. We have a "what we heard" report for agriculture, and now we have an agricultural strategy that goes to 2022. Has that agricultural strategy been implemented, or are there plans to develop an action plan? That is not in here. Can I just clarify also, perhaps, whether, whenever we have a strategy, the next step is then an action plan? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Personally, I am not big on strategies, action plans, new strategies, new frameworks, new action plans, but I am open to feedback from all Members. If the Member is recommending that we would do an action plan, then I am open to hearing those comments. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

No. I guess what I am asking for is perhaps for EIA to create some consistency across departments, especially in this one, which is led by ITI, Health, ENR, and Lands. I am looking at the agricultural strategy, and I believe it covers off almost everything that is in here. There are a lot of amazing recommendations. It is clear a lot of them have not been accomplished, it goes to 2022. Would the Premier be able to provide an update on the status of the recommendations in our agricultural strategy?

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely, we will have the Department of ITI offer a briefing to standing committee. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. All right. Are there any further questions on "Increase food security through locally produced, harvested, and affordable food"? Seeing none, committee will move to page 32, "Increase the number and variety of culturally-respectful, community-based mental health and addictions programs, including aftercare." Questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a few questions on this page. I will start maybe right in the middle. In the second section, under "How we will do it," it reads, "Establish medical detox and managed alcohol programming." I am wondering if the Premier can speak to where Cabinet sees those being located, if they will be central to Yellowknife, or if these services will also be available in the communities across Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This will have to be determined as we move forward with implementing the program. However, I do want to say that medical detox and managed alcohol are very specific programs that have to be monitored properly by medical professions. This isn't just giving out free drinks to everyone and hoping that they survive it. It would have to be in places that they have the capacity, the health centres that have the capacity, to be able to do this. At this point, we haven't defined exactly where. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My next question is in the same section. In the last column, it reads, "nine transitional housing units added in several communities." I am wondering how Cabinet will decide where those transitional housing units will be located? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.

Madam Chair, again, these are new mandate issues. These were developed within Cabinet within the last couple of months, so the actual identity of where the transitional housing hasn't been determined yet. We are willing, as soon as we identify them, then we can bring it forward to committee. The Minister of Health and Social Services want to expand on that? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Health.

To maybe just go back to the first question on the availability of the models is the examining models before determining locations to answer the first question. I do want to talk about the transitional housing options. The department will review leading practices and research on transitional housing models, aimed at supporting individuals returning from facility-based addictions treatments. That means consulting with communities, Indigenous leaders, to identify regional and community needs for transitional housing.

We will also be doing a needs assessment with individuals who are attending these facilities for their treatments to better understand their barriers to housing, recovery, and then develop some options for partnerships with other governments. We talked about there are so many times when we have our clients come out of treatment and there is nothing for them afterwards. This is something the department needs to work with other departments: income support, housing. It is a full-approach model. We also see this work as a priority because the availability of the safe sobriety housing is also a key piece in the recovery. Although our locations are not yet determined, it is just looking at individual needs as they come out of facilities. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I completely agree with the Minister that it is an essential part of the recovery to have somewhere to go to when you are done your treatment. I think if we ended up polling our communities, we would find that 33 communities would identify that they need transitional housing, so I guess I am wondering: if the need is there in all 33 of our communities, how are we going to decide where to distribute nine units? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Health.

I was looking at my notes. The locations have not been determined yet, but it is something that we would have to do a needs assessment. Although it is in our timeline and in our mandate to be able to look at, "Okay. Where is it best suited for individuals?" and again, working with my colleagues in housing, because this is infrastructure, transitional housing, so I understand that we recognize it as a priority. We just need to do further work in finding out where are the best locations, who is the target group, so that is work that we need to do, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you for that. My next question is: it is actually the very last line on the page, "Reduce wait times for access to treatment centres." Sorry, to treatment, we'll just call it "treatment" right across the board. It is my understanding that we are going back out for RFP later this year for our treatment facilities. I am just wondering why reducing the wait times has a timeline of the very end of our term, if that is something that we have the ability to have an effect on this?

Thank you, Madam Chair. The title "What will we do" is "Strengthen community counselling services." Waitlists are regarding that. You can't reduce the wait times for access unless we have other options to do it. This is one that we do have statistics, so we do have a percentage that we want to lower it by, hopefully. We can't lower that until we have stronger peer support groups, until we have managed alcohol groups, all those things that are being implemented before will help us with the wait times. That is why it is at the end. It is because we need all of the other programs and support to support people from actually relapsing or people getting into hard uses of alcohol and drugs. All of those things have to be in place first. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My last question today, or not today, for this page has to do with actually under the first one. During election month, we heard a lot of talk about on-the-land addictions recovery and mental health, wellness options. We also heard yourself, am I allowed to say the Chair, talk about the experience you had at the Arctic Wellness Foundation out by the multiplex in a Member's Statement very recently. I am a little worried that on-the-land, to me it looks slightly less large than I would like to see it. I am just wondering if you are comfortable speaking about where Cabinet would like to go with on-the-land options for people both in Yellowknife, but then also, more importantly, in our communities? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.