That is fine. Please proceed. Bring in the witness. Minister.

Thank you. Making his first appearance at the witness table, Mr. Saturnino.

Thank you, Minister. Questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It took me some time to realize that income assistance and income security are two different terms. My questions are in relation to Income Assistance. My question right now is: Income Assistance is a great program, but one of the issues I consistently have with my constituents is that they don't have a phone and they don't have the Internet, which doesn't allow them to look for jobs. Often, if they don't have a phone, they miss their appointments, which then means they miss their Income Assistance cheque. Then, it kind of spirals. They lose their housing, and we end up having people in poverty. My question to the Minister is: Is there a possibility of adding a communications allowance into the Income Assistance program and what that would cost?

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you. I appreciate where the Member is coming from. In our modern world, everyone has cellphones. Everyone uses the Internet. It has become sort of a necessity of life. It has been recognized as such by multiple organizations. We do allow clients to use phones and the internet in the Income Assistance office. In this budget, though, we aren't contemplating adding a phone or Internet allowance. There has been some work done on that. Just looking at a basic phone plan and a basic Internet plan on your phone, we are pushing, I think, an additional $2 million or so is what it would cost. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to having further conversations of this. I appreciate getting that number of $2 million. I see that Income Assistance, we all know, is increasingly going up. It went up $2 million from the last part. I think one of my beliefs here, perhaps we can have this conversation later, is that if you actually give a person a phone and the internet, they are more likely to get a job. They are more likely to be able to get in contact with the numerous services they are interacting with. We have seen through Integrated Case Management that often our most vulnerable clients not having a phone is one of the biggest issues that causes the spiral into poverty. In that analysis, has the Minister looked into whether providing people with a phone or the internet would actually save us any money?

Thank you, Member. Minister.

No, I haven't looked into that. It would be difficult to sort of extrapolate that from other jurisdictions, to say, "This has worked in other jurisdictions, so it will also work in the territory." We are vastly different from most places that would do this type of research. I have been very open with the Members that I want to have an Income Assistance program that helps people get back into the job market. A lot of people on Income Assistance, they are in and out. Some, there are additional barriers that keep them out of that job market. What are those and how can we assist them to get into that job market? If this is something that shows some merit, maybe was can look further into it. Again, there are a lot of asks, especially in ECE. We can't pay for everything that we would like. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to having these conversations, and I think it just seems common sense that not having a phone is a barrier to getting a job, so maybe we could look into this more. My next question is, in regard to Income Assistance, for the $34 million we spend a year, how much do we spend in administration? That would be the staff and the people to actually provide money to the end users.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you. We can't parse out Income Assistance from the entire Income Security program. Income Assistance is about, I'd have to look at the exact number, here, $32 million, but the client service officers who distribute Income Assistance also deal with the Senior Home Heating Subsidy and a number of other programs. So, of the total of $52 million that is spent on those programs, $6.5 million is spent on administration. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You will hear me over the next four years make multiple pitches for a guaranteed liveable income. I think one of the strongest arguments is the fact that $6.5 million of this $32 million, depending on which numbers we're talking about, exactly, is spent in administration costs. I'll leave that debate for another time. One of my other concerns with Income Assistance is it often requires people coming into the offices. There is a lot of paperwork involved. I believe this is in the mandate and there is some work being done on single-window service. Are there presently efforts in the department to move more of Income Assistance applications online?

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you. At this point, we haven't done that work. A lot of times, people are bringing in pay stubs, they're bringing in things from the bank, and those are being brought in for verification. It isn't something that really lends itself, but that being said, I'll look into what other jurisdictions are doing and see if there are efficiencies to be found in that way. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister's commitment to look into that and see what other jurisdictions are doing. Ultimately, I think one of the beautiful things about it is, if we create these online service portals, and we're seeing this done for more and more departments, then in certain cases you don't need the administrative staff. They essentially are replaced by the internet, which then means we have more money to provide people the actual Income Assistance, and, you know, perhaps a phone. I think there is a strong, once again, cost-savings argument to creating an online portal for Income Assistance. I'll just leave that as a comment.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you. Online portals aren't free. I mean, there are always costs associated with them. I've seen them in the previous government, and honestly, if we had an online portal, it would free up time for our client service officers who, I think, are all overworked and who would probably appreciate being able to have the time to do what they're supposed to be doing and not be running themselves ragged. I don't know if it would result in any savings in wages. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

No, thank you, sir.