Thank you, Minister. Dr. Dragon.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

I think this is a problem across departments. When you go to their websites and you look at the policies that they're responsible for, none of them are complete across departments. I'll just make that as a note to Ministers that I would like to know all of the policies, because there are the procurement guidelines in Finance, and I think that that is the biggest driver here. Finance, to me, is really the driver of procurement, despite us constantly asking Infrastructure questions. Does the department have a policy on design-build versus design-bid-build, and do we have a preference or a general way that we decide between those two? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think this one I will pass over to Dr. Dragon to answer. Thank you.

Thank you. Dr. Dragon.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I want to distinguish between P3s and design-builds here. Projects over $50 million under the P3 policy; that's in Finance. I have issues with P3s, but if I have issues, I bring them to Finance. It's that $1-million to $50-million range. To me, that's Infrastructure's bread and butter, and if I am going to look at what has happened in the history of the North, as we have made a transition from design-bid-build to design-build and what that has done is there are only select firms that can bid on design-builds. I think the honorariums that we are giving out just aren't enough. Our northern architecture firms, our northern engineering firms, are deciding to avoid design-builds, because you have to be a very large firm to take on all of the risks that go into a design-build.

The design-bid-build process, I think, is exactly where we should be focussing on. It allows us to break projects up smaller. If we create an engagement department, something I think would be great, it allows us to have a little more flexibility with our architectural team to see what a community can actually do. As much as I hear you say, "Yes, it's a case-by-case basis, and we're looking at breaking up contracts," the only way that your words really reflect the actions on the ground is in policies. Absent those policy changes happening, I guess what I would be looking for from the Minister is, this is a big debate, but I think there is a lot of work to be done in that $1- to $50-million range. I would be looking for the Department of Infrastructure, which it can, because this is where that lies -- if the Minister of ITI was here, we could also amend BIP, because they work hand-in-hand -- to create a policy that says, "We prefer design-bid-builds." Because, to me, that is what has been killing a lot of the small contractors in the North. Would the Minister be willing to do that? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I definitely commit to having a look at this and taking the Member's points under notice and having that conversation with him. It sounds like he has lots of great ideas, so I would suggest that, if he wants to put them together and send them to me, that would be great. We will be having, as I said, that fulsome procurement review across departments. I understand that that will probably take longer than the Member would like, but that is the nature of what we have to do. We have noted the policy comment, and we will definitely incorporate that into our review. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I will build onto this. I look at the procurement guidelines, and it appears that the Department of Finance doesn't really seem to have an opinion on this in the procurement guidelines. They are worried about the financial side. If you guys decide you want to construct something that way, they'll go put the contracts together. I don't see a prohibition against Infrastructure creating a preference to design-bid-builds.

I also don't see anything in the procurement guidelines that would prohibit the Department of Infrastructure from creating a policy that sets out how we break down smaller contracts. Whenever a department comes to you with, say, "Did you go out and consult and talk to the labour pool in that community and what they have," and then make that the contract that then goes to Finance. I recognize that the procurement review is happening, and people have been saying that for years, but it's really you, as the Minister, who could grab one of your policies, of which I'm sure there's a bunch I have never seen and can't find, and change a couple of lines in them to reflect that.

I guess I would ask the Minister: would you also be willing to find wording that reflects this principle that we want to break up procurement contracts to reflect what a community can actually bid on? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess, you know, that is part of the whole goal, is to have a whole-of-government revamp and look at our procurement dollars and what we are going to be doing. Everything that the Member has said is noted. We definitely want to ensure that we maximize our dollars. I know that I will only be hearing about it if we don't. I'm leery of creating more policies when all I heard through the campaign was that there are too many policies and procedures, and we're not doing great at executing them anyway, but I understand your point. I do commit to putting in language, or looking at those policies and adapting them as we see fit, in a newer, more fair procurement system. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member.

Thank you. Just one final thing. I will send the link to the Minister and her team, but could you put all of the Department of Infrastructure's policies on your website? I recognize there are executive policies, departmental policies, and then there are the procurement guidelines and all of the capital projects that lie with Finance, but I know, somewhere buried in the Department of Infrastructure, there are guidelines on how exactly we are choosing to build buildings.

From what I can see, we have slowly been creating these shell, fake, northern companies, that are actually southern companies, and those true, kind of, northern construction firms are becoming rarer and rarer. This hasn't happened in the last eight months since you've been in charge; this has been a decade-long experiment with more P3s and more design-builds. I think that it is failing, and I would really encourage the Minister to get hold of all of the Infrastructure policies and look at some little tweaks. Perhaps start doing that without this huge procurement review that is probably going to take us two years or three years. I'll leave that with the Minister. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. As I already mentioned before and in the email I sent you, we did do that exact thing with the RFP and changing one small item to encourage northern -- it was a situation where, if they don't even meet the minimum scoring, then they don't actually even make it to the financial part or evaluation, which is where all the BIP comes into play. We made that change very rapidly, very quickly, when I said to Dr. Dragon that we needed to do something in the meantime. I recognize that the review is going to take long.

I just want to email people or send out letters. I had my lovely conversation with the Member for Monfwi, and I wanted to respond to his chiefs very quickly, but I had to go through a whole process to get the response out. I recognize that that impedes our government, and it creates problems. I am committed to streamlining and rewriting polices that make more sense. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Because I didn't set the time, I'm going to move on to Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was astounded to hear from the Minister that there is no additional money required for the three infrastructure projects she is promoting, because we only appropriate money a year at a time. Can she reply on that?

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not an accountant. I misspoke. I apologize. Thank you, Mr. Chair.