Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I'm -- I'm doing some quick math. I think this is well over $20 million a year in O and M, and I think that's even a very conservative estimate based on what I just heard.

Can the Minister just speak to, I know that Health and Social Services Authority is in deficit. We're trying to find money always for health. The costs are ballooning. Is there -- can the Minister speak to kind of whether we are confident that we will have the fiscal room to operate these beds. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, I find that a difficult question to answer. The Legacy project was planned before I came into this role. But, you know, always there was going to be O and M for all these extra beds and so I'm assuming -- and I hope I'm right about this -- that it's on someone's radar that, you know, once we finish paying for the cost of the renovation then we need to staff up the facility.

In terms of, you know, the total ask and where it's going to come from and so on, that's going to be a future budget discussion.

I will just say about the Legacy project that the beds are going to be phased in. So I don't believe we'll be looking for that total amount of money right off the top but rather in a staged process. And if you look at the other long-term care projects that we've got on the books at this point, they're also being staged so that, you know, the costs for both the capital and the O and M is spread out over a number of years. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know the territory spends -- I believe it's upwards of $20 million on out-of-territory services, and we have many residents with kinds of very complex needs and long-term care in Alberta. Can the Minister just speak to whether any of these long-term care beds would be able to repatriate those people. I know some have complex needs and services beyond what we're planning to build here, but I'm just wondering if any of these additional beds will bring people home from Alberta. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Yes, thank you. That's not our intention. The intention is that we are going to use an international needs assessment tool to assess people for the long-term care bed needs, and there will be a threshold of nursing and support services required before people are offered beds in long-term care. I am aware that in some cases now, people with special needs are in long-term care, and think that's a default because there hasn't been accommodation for them elsewhere. But you might know that we're doing a supported living review at this point, where we're trying to develop an in-territory model for support for people who are currently living in facilities outside of the NWT. So we are interested in finding a solution to that, but we're pursuing it separately from the long-term care beds.

Thank you, Minister. Any further questions, comments? Member for Monfwi.

Yes, thank you. Long-term care facility, I know in my regions we have one. But we have residents from other communities in the region that are in my community. And not everybody, you know -- not all of them are happy to leave, but there's no facility, no program and services in their community.

So I'm just wondering if we can have an increase in service for home care and for housing support that allows for elders to stay home and for more -- what I mean there too is that to have more staff. And because I know it's going to cost lots to build a home care facility in the community, and then, you know, provide more services with the staff and services, like, to accommodate the elders that do not want to leave their home. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister.

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you for that question. Yes, at the same time that we're doing this planning for long-term care, we've also been doing planning for changes to home and community care. Just before this Assembly began, there was a comprehensive review of home and community care and some recommendations about how the program could be strengthened.

One easy example I'll give you is that the hours needed to be more flexible, that home care was primarily being offered only during work hours, 9 to 5, and that there was a need for home care in other hours. There's also a need for more home care if we're going to accommodate people to stay in their homes rather than move into regional centres to long-term care homes. And not only is that what we hear people want to happen, that they want to stay in their own homes as long as possible, it's also the most cost effective way to support them.

We just heard how much it costs to operate a long-term care bed. So if we were able to, you know, spend a fraction of that money on home care, a personal support worker and nursing care for people in their homes, that would obviously better -- be better all around. And so that is something that we're actively working on now. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.

Knowing that the long-term care facility -- one's going into Hay River, and it was initially supposed to be a 48-bed facility, and it got decreased to 24 beds. And there was lots of discussion about that and -- back and forth. I guess what I'd like to ask is, you know, has there been any more analysis done on whether that 24-bed is acceptable or should we be looking at a 48-bed facility. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Yes, thank you. I thought for a small moment I might go through long-term care without Hay River, but no. Okay, happy to talk about that.

It's important for the Member to know that the planning work and design work has already started on the Hay River long-term care unit, and it's based on the 24-bed model. And I think that the Member knows that it's going to be located adjacent to Woodland Manor once H.H. Williams Hospital is demolished. And I understand that in the future, should there be a need for a much greater number of beds, there's room on that campus to add another pod or wing of long-term care.

But as things stand now, we're confident in our population projections. We appreciate all the questions we got to sharpen our projections and make sure that 24 beds was the right number. And I feel confident that it is.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I appreciate the work that's being done. And I understand that, you know, the projections you came up with was actually based on -- on, you know, the number of beds required and also the decrease was partly due to providing more support to home care. Is that still the case? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Yes, the two things that drove the change in the Hay River bed count was, first of all, an understanding that Fort Smith needed more beds than they had and were projected to need more into the future. And so instead of having people come in to Hay River from Fort Smith, it made more sense to look at building a long-term care facility in Fort Smith to meet that priority of helping people to age in place, although they might not be in their own homes, they would be in their own communities. So that was definitely a factor.

The other is what I just mentioned about the international assessment tool to try and understand who needs to be in long-term care and at what point. So that is one of the drivers in looking at how many beds we think we're going to need into the future in all locations, not just in Hay River.

And then, finally, those people who may be screened out of long-term care because their needs are not acute enough to be in long-term care, then that's where we need to bump up our home care so that those people are given the assistance they need to stay in their homes. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I see the estimated completion date is 2024-2025. I'd like to know if we're still on track for that as we have not started taking down the old H.H. Williams Memorial Hospital. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, thank you for that question. I'll ask Mr. Heath to confirm what the project schedule is.