Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Minister speak to what the plan is for the president of the college once the board is established, and the unit within ECE. Is the plan for those people to be transferred to the college? I see a bit of a problem if this is truly to be arm's-length, for the president to be remaining in the department and having essentially two jobs. Is the plan to wrap up the transformation unit? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you. What the board is going to do about the president, I can't tell the Member right now. I don't know. They're going to be the board. They are going to hire the president. However, I think what we need or what this forces us to do is build relationships. We need to create a product that a board is going to want to run with, and we want to be able to provide support to the board. We've had members of the transformation team engaged heavily in this for a number of years, and there will be a number of more years before this move is made final, and I would hope that the board would want to utilize that expertise as they move toward the plan that has been laid out. What exactly that is going to look like has yet to be determined, but we want to make sure that we continue down the path toward a world-class polytechnic. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Minister speak to what is being done to increase enrolment presently? My concern is that this is a very ambitious goal, but I believe that Aurora College has about 800 full-time students. If you go over to Yukon College, which seems to be successfully transforming into a university, they had 5,600 full-time and part-time students, so they started at a much higher level of enrolment. If you look at other successful polytechnics we're modelling, they're more like 20,000 students; half the population of the territory. I'm not expecting us to ever get there, but I just don't think we can even start to be serious about this transformation with the amount of lack of students we have attending the college right now. What is being done to increase enrolment presently? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mister -- or Madam Chair. I was going to call you Mr. Speaker; I'm sorry. Thank you, Madam Chair. I can assure the Member we're very serious about a transformation, regardless of how many students we have. The fact that we have fewer students than we'd like is all the more reason to be even more serious about the transformation. What is being done is being done by the college, and there still is a separation. Even though there is a single number in here showing how much we are contributing, I'm not involved in the day-to-day operations of the college. That is done by a separate group of people. What I can point out, though, is that COVID has had a big impact on post-secondary enrolment across Canada, across the world, and so we obviously took a hit there. There are students who don't want to go online to learn. That being said, there will be face-to-face classes coming in the fall, and we're hoping that people are anxious to get back. The college is doing its usual recruitment programs. I can provide written updates to the Members about what's going on, there, but I think that the low numbers that the Member is referencing are the impetus for this, one of the impetuses. They're not a deterrent; they're why we are doing this. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Do we have a sense of whether the college will transition out of the public service or the UNW after becoming a university? I know many university professors and tenures are not necessarily in unions or they are in university-specific unions. Will the employer relationship change in the college, or is any of that work contemplated? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that is probably a question for the Minister of human resources. I'm not sure where we are with negotiations or anything right now, so I don't really want to touch on that. I think that there is a recognition that the college is not a traditional public service. It's a college, and it will be a university. They have different structures. However, I cannot say much more at this point. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. That is another item, I think, to be looked at. Then I think, if this is to be truly arm's length, probably the relationship that the entire college has to the GNWT needs to be looked at. I question the extent that a university professor can have academic freedom and still be a member of the public service, and I don't think the line is very clear right now. I guess that is a general comment.

To me, even if we are aiming for something like Yukon University, in those thousands of students number, we do not have that many students, we just do not have the graduates. To me, that has to be made up with southern students. I am not sure if there has necessarily been a desire to do that in the past. When the Minister uses words like "world-class," to me, that inherently means that international students want to come here, that they want to study, and we want to grow a college population made up of Southerners, non-Northerners.

I think that is one of the big tensions to the college in its past, and this entire debate is: are we building a college for northern graduates, of which we have terrible graduation records? Most students, if you look at SFA data, want to go South in the first place, so are we building a university to attract southern students and international students, which come with tuition and money? Can the Minister speak to that tension of how we are going to attract students from out of territory? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Thank you. I am not experiencing any tension. I think that, if we build a world-class polytechnic university that serves the needs of the residents of the territory, we will attract students from across Canada and international students. We have a lot to build on here. We talked about the ENR program. Earlier today, we were talking about climate-change research. We always talk about Indigenous languages. There is a lot that we can do in the territory that will attract people. If we have a quality post-secondary university with proper quality assurance mechanisms in place, proper supports for teachers, proper supports for students, we are going to attract southern students, and we are going to serve northern students. I do not think it's an and/or. I do not think there is any sort of trade-off. If we do it right, we will be able to serve everyone. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I should comment. There probably is a way to do both, and it's not an and/or. I previously met with the executive director of Dechinta, and she was saying they keep getting more and more applications from the South. They are getting applications from other Indigenous governments all around the country who want their students to go and attend Dechinta classes. At some point, they have to make a decision about how much they want to have northern students versus letting them in, so I think that is a good thing. Every time I speak with Dechinta, they are a model of success for a post-secondary, I find them very inspiring. I know there was an agreement signed with College Nordique and with Dechinta to work in partnership in creating the polytechnic, but can I have an update on how the Minister views those two organizations fitting into the polytechnic transformation? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Thank you. The Member is correct. There was an MoU signed sometime last year between the three organizations. I think it's similar to what I said earlier, that there are things in the territory that we can build on. Dechinta is something that the college can partner with, and they can both benefit from that relationship with each other, the same with College Nordique. They have a lot of skills that they can bring to the table, and I think there is a lot that can be done. I do not have a specific plan about there being a French first-language campus or an on-the-land program at the college, but anything is possible because right now there is a very good relationship between the three institutions. I think, with that in place and with this transformation, we are going to see some big things happening. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North, one quick last one.

I am not sure I will necessarily be quick. I wanted to briefly speak to: the Department of Finance, due to the federal cancellation of the wage subsidy program, does not have that line item in their budget; neither does ECE have a similar budget. I am going to try to sneak two questions in here. Do we have any data of how many people who received that money were on Income Assistance? I just want to get a sense of whether there is a correlation of people making under $18 an hour and also receiving Income Assistance. I am not sure if we have that data, but if we have that? If the Minister can speak to if there are any plans to create a wage subsidy program to essentially top up or subsidize the working poor? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Thank you. I don't have those numbers. I am not sure if we can pull those numbers out. As for a wage subsidy program, we have a number of wage subsidy programs. There is no more time on the clock. I am sorry. I have to cut myself off there. Thank you.

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Thank you. Members, before we finish this page, I just want to see if there are other Members who want to speak to the labour development and advanced education. We have had six Members already speak to it, but we still have four more. I just wanted to see so the Minister and staff know that they have to return tomorrow. We have one, two. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Norn.