Committee Motion 76-19(2): Tabled Document 286-19(2): Main Estimates 2021-2022 - Education, Culture and Employment - Deferral of Department (page 137), Carried

In the Legislative Assembly on February 11th, 2021. See this topic in context.

Committee Motion 76-19(2): Tabled Document 286-19(2): Main Estimates 2021-2022 - Education, Culture and Employment - Deferral of Department (page 137), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1957

Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that committee defer further consideration of these estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment at this time. Marsi cho, Madam Chair.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Mr. Norn. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Page 1957

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Consideration of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, operations expenditures, total department is deferred. Thank you, Minister, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Committee, we will take just a short, little break to give the Sergeant-at-Arms time to clean the desk, and we will introduce the next department. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

We will call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 286-19(2), Main Estimates 2021-2022, the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Does the Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs have any opening remarks?

Page 1957

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here to present the 2021-2022 Main Estimates for the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Overall, the department's estimates propose a decrease of $458 thousand, or 2 percent, from the Main Estimates 2020-2021. These estimates support the mandate objectives for the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs while continuing to meet the Government of the Northwest Territories' fiscal objectives to prioritize responsible and strategic spending. Highlights of these proposed estimates include:

$631,000 in new funding to establish a Gender Equity unit. This unit will work to ensure that government decisions, including financial decisions, consider their sometimes-unequal effect on people with different identity factors such as gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, or abilities. This new unit will also be responsible for developing and implementing an action plan in response to the Calls to Justice in the Final Report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls;
a sunset of $384,000 in funding related to the Deputy Secretary for Federal Engagement position; and
a sunset of $705,000 in funding related to the Office of Devolution Initiatives.

These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 19^th Legislative Assembly by:

supporting residents in small communities by providing funding for single window service centres that provide these residents with support to access both GNWT and Government of Canada services;
supporting a continued focus on respectful and meaningful relationships with our Indigenous government partners that facilitates the negotiation and implementation of self-government and land claims agreements throughout the territory; and
supporting the ongoing collaboration with Indigenous governments to create and implement an action plan that will guide the changes required to ensure the further implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.

Madam Chair, that concludes my opening remarks. Thank you.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Does the Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs wish to bring witnesses into the House?

Page 1957

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

I do. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce the witnesses for the record?

Page 1957

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have with me today Mr. Martin Goldney, who is the secretary to Cabinet and the deputy minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, and Ms. Amy Kennedy, who is the director of Shared Corporate Services with Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, and welcome. The committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?

Page 1957

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, we will defer the departmental summary and review the estimates by activity summary beginning with Cabinet support starting on page 112, with information items on page 114. Questions? Member for Great Slave.

Page 1957

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the department tell me what the $232,000 spent under contract services is for? Thank you.

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Page 1957

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Sorry, Madam Chair. What page?

Page 1957

The Chair Lesa Semmler

One-thirteen.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. If I can turn it to Ms. Amy Kennedy?

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1958

Kennedy

Thank you, Madam Chair. In this area, under contract services for Cabinet support, that covers some of the contracts required to provide support to the Public Utilities Board, the administration of which sits in this area, as well as other contracts required to support the Cabinet support function. Thank you.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Ms. Kennedy. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1958

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I know what kind of contracts those might be that are used to support Cabinet? Thank you.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Page 1958

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. That amount would also include support for contracted services for things like public relations and public engagement with the federal government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1958

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just noting that the majority of this budget is towards compensation and benefits for staff to support Cabinet. I am just wondering if there has been any sort of look at streamlining those services to maybe make some cuts in this area? Thank you.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this time, we are not looking at cuts to deal with the staffing of the Executive and Indigenous Affairs. We are a small department at this time. There are positions that were taken out further on in this, such as the person who is responsible for federal engagement in Ottawa. Those are things we are looking at, but directly, we are a small department. We need the staff that we have. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1958

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I was just speaking about Cabinet support, not the department as a whole, noting it's quite a big expense for 12 positions. That was where my concern lay. I would ask that maybe the department think and consider about reducing costs in areas such as PR, et cetera. I don't know that the taxpayers should be paying for that. Thank you.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Some things are very important. Public relations are important, especially when we are dealing with Indigenous governments, Madam Chair. It is important that the public be advised. We can look at it for the next budget, but in my opinion, Madam Chair, I think that Executive and Indigenous Affairs is actually one of the leanest departments. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1958

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Again, I am speaking to the line item around Cabinet support, which would mean PR for Cabinet. That's what I am speaking to. I imagine that there are a lot of areas within the EIA budget where other community relations and PR type of work with Indigenous governments is collected. More of a comment than anything. I'm done, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will take that as a comment. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1958

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I see that there has been a decrease in one position for Cabinet support. Can I just get clarification as to what position that was? Thank you.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

I'm just wondering what line item.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Can you clarify what line item that is?

Page 1958

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

I'm looking at page 114. The previous year's was 13 positions, and this year's is 12. Thank you.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Madam Premier.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. This was just a re-allocation. We are moving the board register position, and we are moving into a senior communications advisor. The board register position wasn't as needed, but the senior communication advisor was desperately needed. I have heard throughout this Assembly that communications was an issue, and we decided to actually put in a position for that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are there any further questions? Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1958

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. If the board registrar position has been cut from the function within the Cabinet support area, who is doing that work now, or who will be doing the work starting April 1^st? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't know the name of the person, but the board registrar position is currently vacant. The responsibilities of the position have been covered and will continue to be covered through internal resources. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1958

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Just so I understand, I do want to compliment the Minister because there is a pretty good web page in EIA where people can see the boards that we have responsible for appointing. You can actually see who sits on them, their term of office, whether there are vacancies. That's pretty good in terms of transparency, and I want to compliment the Minister. It was something that I think got started in the last Assembly, but is that the function that this individual is responsible for, is tracking and maintaining that? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is the position. However, Madam Chair, as I said earlier, that position is still being covered by internal work. It hasn't been chopped off. We recognize the importance of having those boards; in fact, it's a conversation we have often at the Cabinet table. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1958

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I hear from the Premier that she is committed to maintain that that work is going to continue, so I don't have any difficulty with that. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Are there any further questions under the Cabinet support? Seeing none, please turn to page 113, Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Cabinet support, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $2,493,000. Does committee agree?

Page 1958

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee now turn to corporate communications, beginning on page 115, with information items on page 117. Questions? Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1958

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have, a number of times, expressed confusion and that I don't actually think there is clarity between the role of corporate communications and Cabinet communications, and I want to underline why. My view of why this has happened is that, in a lot of governments, the Cabinet communications would be clear political appointments. We get these emails from a press secretary that doesn't exist, but in a lot of governments, you would choose your press team. You would make them clear political appointments. They would not be members of the public service; they would serve at the will of the Premier for that. You see that in the Prime Minister's office. You see that in other governments.

Over time, our Cabinet communications have become civil servants. We keep the same people over the governments, and as such, they are essentially not a political communications tool but a corporate communications tool, where they speak on behalf of the GNWT as opposed to this Cabinet as a whole. I think there needs to be a hard look at what is happening with corporate communications and Cabinet communications, and then all of the communications within departments, and there needs to be a clear line of when someone is giving political communication advice and when someone is speaking on behalf of the public service or the GNWT.

All that being said, I've expressed this concern before. Can we have an update on when we will see a review of the different communications functions? I hear we are adding another person to communications, but I don't know if that necessarily improves communications without the roles and responsibilities and restructuring occurring. Can I have an update on the communications strategic planning work that is being done in EIA? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1958

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. My deputy minister would like to take that question.

Page 1958

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Page 1959

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. We are still in the process of an implementation exercise where, in 2018, there were some changes made to how communications would be supported throughout government. As we have been implementing that work, it has been a bit of a culture change, but we are seeing some successes emerge. We are right now in the process of doing some validation of that work to make sure that we are on the right track, and some of the expectations for improvements are working, so there are no plans for a further review. Right now, we're assessing some of the changes that were made relatively recently, beginning in 2018, through a communications transformation project. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1959

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't want to micromanage communications. Communications are very much the bread and butter of what the Ministers and the Cabinet want things to look like, but I do have some larger concerns. I believe corporate communications holds the ultimate responsibility for the GNWT website, and then we allow other comms shops in departments to go and adjust the websites. This has led to just GNWT websites being a mess and completely inconsistent, and it's hard to find information. I think there are different understandings of whether websites are places for departments to store everything that has ever happened, or whether websites are user-friendly places for citizens to find information.

I think MLAs spend far too much time talking about communications because we get frustrated. We get frustrated when we ask to have easily shareable information and it's not done. I think, as a contrast, if we go to the WSCC website, which is arm's-length and I'm assuming that their comms staff have complete control over it, it's just a better, more user-friendly website. This isn't an impossible thing for our government to do. Are there any plans to overhaul GNWT websites and perhaps give corporate communications complete control in this area, centralize it, and let them go and clean up some of the very bad websites that still exist in certain departments or corporations? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1959

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I also recognize that accessing things through the websites in the GNWT is not an easy task. I struggle myself to find things. People know that technology isn't my strong point, except for the tools I use, and so when you struggle with computer usage and things, I realize it's even harder to access those things. We have added an extra person to the Cabinet communications support, because, with COVID-19, that was the biggest thing. Corporate communications is really focused on our graphics, the corporate image of us, and then the departments also have communications. We do recognize in this government that our websites do need to be cleaned up, made more accessible, and so, Madam Chair, within this government term, we will be looking to do that work. However, I cannot say it will happen right away. We are dealing with a huge workload at this point. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1959

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I often hear the Premier say that they're dealing with a huge amount of work, but Executive and Indigenous Affairs is the smallest department. It's about 1 percent of our total budget. If you want to double your staff and actually take the lead on some of these initiatives, I'll vote for that. It's 1 percent of the budget; it's not going to make or break the bank. My question in regard to the website is: can I get clarification of who is responsible for GNWT websites? I believe corporate communications is responsible, and everything has to kind of go through them. Then the Office of the Chief Information Officer in Finance kind of has approval there, and then Infrastructure has the underlying IT. I just want to know: can we sort this out so that there is someone who is responsible for the GNWT websites, a clear point of authority? Because I don't believe that exists right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1959

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll turn that to my deputy minister, Mr. Goldney.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1959

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the Member is right that there is much room for improvement on our websites, so there are those conversations happening. Corporate communications does have a role and is working to try and get some consistency in how our information is presented online, but that necessarily involves those discussions with the others that the Member has mentioned, including the Chief Information Officer and the technology folks within information shared services. Those conversations are happening with the goal of having some more accessible information available on those websites and consistent presentation. It is a bit more complicated than one might assume. There are some architectural changes that are being explored now to get a more user-friendly, accessible website, but that work is underway. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there further questions to the Executive and Indigenous Affairs, corporate communications? Seeing none, please turn to page 116. Executive and Indigenous Affairs, corporate communications, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $1,473,000. Does committee agree?

Page 1959

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We will move on to the directorate, beginning on page 118, with information items on pages 120 and 121. Questions? Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1959

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I am wondering if to start us off the Premier could tell us, with this new gender equity unit, what the people of the Northwest Territories can expect to see come out of that from their perspective and how this changes the operations of the women's advisor role that was existing before. Thank you.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1959

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. If you can, turn it to Martin Goldney, the deputy minister.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Mr. Goldney.

Page 1959

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. We are looking forward to adding resources to that function and enhancing the ability of the existing special advisor to not only do that liaison work but also help guide a whole-of-government approach to some of these issues. We have quite frankly noticed that we need more leadership on some of these challenging issues, and we were also facing the reality of an urgent need to respond to the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry and Calls to Justice. These positions will support that work and provide some of that leadership and, as the Premier mentioned in the opening remarks, also support a whole-of-government implementation of some gender equity lenses. Some of that has already been done, but we do recognize that we need to do more. These positions will support all of that work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1959

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. How many positions specifically are being added to the gender equity unit? Thank you.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1959

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe it's a total of three positions will be added. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1959

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Have they hired all three positions? Are they staffing them from within, or are they going out to competition on these positions? Thank you.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1959

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Right now, we do have a little bit of extra support, but it's off the side of a desk. If this mains are approved, this takes effect April the 1^st, Madam Chair, and at that point, yes, we will be putting them out to competition. It's the right way to do it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1959

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I am just wondering, and maybe I am reading this wrong. They do not appear to show up in the headquarters line items for active positions within the directorate, so I am just wondering where they show up for staffing. Thank you.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1959

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank, Madam Chair. If you could, turn it to my deputy minister, Martin Goldney.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1959

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the count is not reflecting that addition because there is also a sunsetting for the office of devolution and the three positions there. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1959

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

No. Thank you, I really appreciate that, that clarification. One of the other questions that I have is: under this gender equity unit, there is also a Status of Women Council, which is fabulous and wonderful, and I see here it shows that they have gone from $394,000 to $444,000, which is great because it appears to be an increase in the budget. However, when I was looking -- sorry, Madam Chair, if you will allow me to go forward to 129, it looks as though the budget and the contribution from the GNWT is actually $425,000. I am just wondering if the Premier can speak to the differentiation between the two and why they differ. Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I had to flip to 129. The reason it is not included is: the $50,000 that we are looking for an increase, it's not included right now because it's not approved. Once it's approved, it will be included into this.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. That is good news, then, that there is going to be some extra money then for the status of women. I am just wondering, then, because it appears, though, that in previous years, as well, the actuals were consistent at $394,000, and the budgets are kind of all over the place for status of women on page 129. The contributions range from anywhere from $394,000 to $509,000, so I am just wondering if the Premier can speak to that, as well. Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. What I will do is turn that to Ms. Amy Kennedy.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1960

Kennedy

Thank you, Madam Chair. $394,000 had previously been the contribution for the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs. There are other government departments that provide contribution funding, as well, to this organization, and so on the information item on page 129, that GNWT contribution is everything that the organization receives from across government.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Is this also the section where I would ask about GSOs, or is that in another section? Are you able to clarify for me, please? Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Yes? Yes. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much. No. I appreciate that, and I do see regional operations here. Thank you. Currently, the NWT is sitting at 23 GSOs, and as I have pointed out multiple times this week, there is a web of government services for people to kind of navigate through. I am wondering if there is a plan to expand the 23 GSOs to all 33 communities so that people all have an opportunity to work with somebody to navigate government support systems. Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. These 22 actually address 22 of 23 of the smaller communities. There is one community that is not interested at this point. We would have expanded it, but at this point, they did not want it. At this point, we are not really looking at expanding it to 33 communities, and the reason why is that we are looking at the integrated case management model. If that works, then that would be the new initiative for the government versus having it a one-stop shop. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Can I just clarify? Is it the integrated case management model, or is it the integrated service delivery model? Are they thinking of taking kind of the ICM shop and expanding that throughout the territory, or is it more of a service delivery model for the entire Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. It is called the integrated service delivery model. At this point, we are just looking through it and seeing where we go with it, but it has shown success so far. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I got very excited there for a second, thinking we were putting ICM everywhere. No. I definitely a hundred percent support the initiative for the integrated service delivery model to be expanded throughout the GNWT and used with all of our front-line services. That's a big change, and that is going to take time, to change the way that all front-line services deliver services to the people of the Northwest Territories. In the meantime, would EIA be willing to, in communities that are willing to accept one, put a GSO so that people have an interim position that can help them navigate government systems? Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, we are not looking at expanding our government service offices except for the communities that are in it, unless the one small community was interested. At that point, we would look at it. Again, we are looking at different service delivery models. Madam Chair, the smaller communities do not have the resources; they do not have people, and so that was our priority. The larger communities have NGOs; they have many different departments. At this point, with 22 priorities, expanding that would not be a priority at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1960

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I will respectfully disagree that, even though we have services here in Yellowknife, people have a really hard time navigating them and don't necessarily find open doors and don't necessarily find the right doors. While there are services here in Yellowknife, they are not always being able to be accessed by people. I agree we do have 22 priorities, but I do believe that people being able to access government services helps us achieve many of those priorities. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will take that as a comment.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1960

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just get some more explanation on what the government service officers are allowed to do? Are they also cross-appointed as Income Assistance officers; can they approve housing; or do they simply just bring you to the services and help you fill out the forms? Do they actually have the authority to approve applications for other departments? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. They aren't multi-faceted that they would do the housing applications and the income support. That's a whole bunch of skilled things here. Actually, the referral person, it's basically for smaller communities. It's to help people such as our elders who struggle with English, struggle with accessing services. They will tell people what services they might be able to qualify. They will get them the forms to apply. They will help them apply and fill out the forms if they're needed. They will do faxing, et cetera. They are not income support or housing workers, so they send them to the departments. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1960

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's also my understanding that government service officers also help with Service Canada and they are, in fact, partially funded by the federal government. Can I just get an update whether we are still getting federal government money for these positions? Thank you.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually, that was a really exciting thing that happened, I believe it was last year or the year before. Yes. Currently, we are still getting the funding from the federal government, again, because the federal government access to programs is probably even a little bit more complicated than the Government of the Northwest Territories. They have worked in partnership with us, and now those government service officers have the ability to assist people in smaller communities to access federal programs, as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1960

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Has there been a recent labour evaluation of the government service officers? I think we kind of just put a lot of half-time positions and a few full-time positions in communities, and there wasn't really any evaluation done of how much work. I know some of the community workers are extremely overworked, and I think that, perhaps, it's time to relook at some labour adjustments here. Is that work being done? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1960

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will turn that to our deputy minister, Martin Goldney.

Page 1960

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1961

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. The government service officers do report to managers, so there is some reporting available on workloads and additional support might be added as may be required, but there isn't a formal assessment outside of the usual management process from those managers respecting workload of GSOs at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1961

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. One of my concerns is that I don't actually think government service officers are the real solution and that they were designed to help navigate a system that is extremely difficult. When you look at the ICM reports and the integrated service delivery model, that's what they're saying. The systems actually need to work better together. We can keep adding all the pathfinders and navigators that we want, but that's not really solving the root problem.

One of my hopes for the Department of Finance's review of our budget is that there will also be kind of a corresponding look by the executive on where people are best suited. I know that this budget doesn't have a Service GNWT model, but I think having something like a government service officer who could actually stamp your housing application, who could actually stamp your income application, who could actually do all of that work in one place and could actually help you bring you over to Health and Social Services, is the goal. I don't think adding more pathfinders really works.

My question there is: as Finance reviews each of the programs for each department in silos, is there some sort of corresponding work being done by Cabinet to look at, "Wait. We have this pathfinder who is meant to help these five departments, but maybe the five departments can have some overlap or work together"? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1961

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is the purpose of the government renewal project that the Minister of Finance is bringing forward so that all programs would be reviewed and to see the strengths, the weaknesses, the gaps, and areas that need changing. That work is being done in this government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1961

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Switching briefly, I don't often give compliments to the Department of Lands, but one of the things that I like about the Department of Lands, when I go to their unit, they did some internal restructuring. They have a new Public Land Act implementation project team, and they have created positions where their entire job is to implement the new Public Land Act. When I look in EIA's corporate restructuring, I get extremely lost, and I know it's not my job to internally run departments, but I'm always unsure who is doing what. I notice you have a policy shop. You have a devolution shop. You have an Indigenous and governmental affairs shop, a negotiations shop, an implementation shop, an intergovernmental relations shop, an Aboriginal relations shop, a Cabinet secretary shop, all with different policy positions.

This is one of those things that also annoys me is that sometimes I hear the Premier say, Madam Chair, that they're busy, but there are more policy people in this department than anywhere else. My question is: I think the United Nations Declaration is one of our biggest pieces of work to date. All we have got is struggled to get an actual terms of reference going, but who, of those shops, is actually responsible for that work? I note that, when we were doing devolution, we created the Office of Devolution Initiatives. It was a clear point of accountability in the government for who was doing that work. I think the UNDRIP implementation is just as large-scale a work, but I am unclear who in the giant mess of EIA is doing that work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1961

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll turn that to the deputy minister, but I will say that I am at that table for every meeting. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1961

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to the UNDRIP implementation work, that is being largely led from our Indigenous Affairs side of the department, calling upon numerous parts within that department because it is such a big undertaking that we do recognize it is going to require voices, not just from the negotiations side or the implementations side or the Aboriginal consultation and relations side, and the intergovernmental affairs side.

We are beginning to look at how the department is structured and looking forward to having conversations with Indigenous governments directly, to have that frank conversation, "Is our structure one of the things that is impeding progress?" There will be more, I think, as we learn from Indigenous governments their experience in dealing with us as a department and as a government. That work, we do look forward to sharing more about, but it's just starting. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Madam Premier.

Page 1961

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. For clarification, I don't want to mislead the Members. I am at every table with the Indigenous government leaders. We do have staff, also, who are working behind with the Indigenous government officials, just for clarification. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1961

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that clarification. It was going to be my next question that, if there's not a staff-level technical group, we are probably never going to get anything done. I have yet to see a group of politicians actually implement anything, let alone something as complicated as the declaration. I think we very much need our staff working together.

Madam Chair, when the Premier was elected, there was a commitment for a long forward economic plan and vision. We also heard that in the Emerge Stronger vision. This is another one of those things which I think is a huge policy undertaking. Can I just get clarification of who is leading that work in EIA? I believe it is an EIA responsibility as opposed to ITI. Once again, I think this is one of those things where a specific office and a specific point of accountability is really needed because so much of the expertise in EIA is Indigenous government and not economic. Who is leading that work? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1961

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Economic and social recovery, I believe that's what he's talking about, is actually being led by our deputy minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, working with every single deputy minister across the government. It's a table of deputy ministers doing that work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

Page 1961

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Once again, I don't want to continue to tell the Minister how to run her department, obviously, but I know our deputy ministers are just as busy and so are our Ministers. I think this is one of those things that really needs to be devolved into a specific policy shop, and they need to be given some arm's-length free rein to look at some creative economic solutions. Because past experience in the GNWT has been that any of the kind of creative, out-of-the-box solutions, they get killed by the time they get to a deputy minister's table or to a Minister's table. We kind of end up with the same safe reports and plans, of which we have many that we could simply recycle, if the goal is a plan. In creating a 10-year economic plan, are any consultants being hired, or economists? Is there outside consultation being sought? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1961

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, we haven't done any outside consultation for it. It is distressing, Madam Chair, just to hear that deputy ministers may quash dreams and hopes and thinking outside the box. I would hope that my deputy minister for Executive and Indigenous Affairs is not doing that, or any deputy minister within the Government of the Northwest Territories. We are asking for innovation and creativity, and in fairness to all of them, I think they are all thinking out of the box for this Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1961

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am really excited to see the increases to the funding for the women's initiatives, et cetera. I notice, overall, there is an increase of $150,000 to the three programs listed: the Native Women's Association; the Status of Women; and the Women's Initiatives grant. Could the department tell me if this has all been repurposed money out of the Office of Devolution initiatives, or does this funding come from, say, somewhere else like the federal government? Thank you.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1961

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. It kind of works differently. The sunsetted programs such as the Office of Devolution would just be taken out of the budget, so it's not really to say that that would flow into it. The extra $50,000 in each area is actually what we're asking for from the main, so it wouldn't be federal government monies. It's what we're asking from this government to be approved in these mains. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1961

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1962

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you for that. Yes. I was just wondering if we did get any sort of initiatives or extra funding from the federal government for women over the next while, considering that they are supposed to be more supportive of gender equity, et cetera. I'll just continue to push or ask that the department continue to push for the federal government to give us some of this money to help us. I am just curious to know that, in this time coming up, it's not exactly the happiest time for people. I note things like the Arctic Inspiration Prize is always something that really does spark northern pride and enthusiasm. It always seems to go to very good causes, if I'm not mixing it up with other ones. Is there any thought to increasing that amount in the next while, in a sense of creating more community pride and things for people to see as hope and bright spots? Thank you.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this time, we aren't looking to increase the Arctic Inspiration Prize, although I do recognize that, absolutely, it is important. It helps foster hope in people; however, there are many programs and services that also foster it, and as stated many times in this session, I've heard, we can't leave the next government in a deficit. It's a fine balance between actually increasing programs that are needed to meet our priorities and our operational needs and still making sure that we provide a sustainable government for the next government, the people who will be taking over. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1962

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. This one is a little bit of an obscure question and probably maybe one for the last Assembly or last year, but I'm looking at the contract services. In the 2019-2020 actuals, it was $474,000, but it looks to be generally more around $150,000. This year, it is looking like $115,000. I'm just curious to know what that blip amount was in 2019-2020, and is there a possibility that that type of increase would be needed at another date, therefore causing them to come back with a supplemental? Thank you.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have an explanation, but I think, for more clarity, I'd like to turn it to Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1962

Kennedy

Thank you, Madam Chair. In 2019-2020, the Department of EIA undertook several contracts related to deputy minister recruitment, and so those contracts are covered in that area.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1962

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Where would all the severance for deputy ministers who have been let go over the last year fall? Would it be in this budget here, or would it have been in the past? Thank you.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

February 11th, 2021

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Madam Chair, I'll turn it to Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1962

Kennedy

Thank you, Madam Chair. The compensation benefits line for the directorate within each department would show those amounts in the 2019-2020 fiscal year, I would imagine.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1962

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the department provide me with the total amount of money since this Assembly started that has been spent on severance for deputy ministers? Thank you.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I will turn it to my deputy minister, Martin Goldney, for that.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1962

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we can look at that. I think we do have to consider whether or not some of that information might reveal the terms of settlement agreements which we're required to keep confidential, but we can look at whether a global figure might be available.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Page 1962

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. I can understand why we wouldn't be able to get a sum total of that number, so I'll expect that from the department. Thank you.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Any further questions? Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1962

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Can I get an explanation as to the sunsetting of the Office of Devolution Initiatives? As I understood it, they were tasked with obtaining an offshore petroleum resources management agreement. I'm not aware of an agreement being signed yet. They were also involved in trying to develop a terms of reference for further work on MVRMA transition. I have never seen a terms of reference. Why is this being sunsetted? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I will turn that to Mr. Goldney for the answer. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1962

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. When we were looking at the progress of work being made and the resources that we have available, we were confident that we could let the sunsets set and still move forward with those initiatives with the resources that we have. We are very optimistic that we'll see significant progress and milestones reached on an offshore accord, hopefully even before March 31^st, if we can, but there is good progress being made there. On the MVRMA initiatives, we do recognize that we've got resources, including those that support the intergovernmental council, that work very closely with Indigenous government officials, as well, so we expect much of that work to be carried forward with those resources. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1962

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm glad to hear the optimism of the deputy minister, but I'd like to get a little bit more concrete information. Can the Minister commit to providing committee with a written update of the status of the negotiations for the offshore? I don't even know what our negotiating position is other than, hopefully, we want to get something at least as generous as the Maritime provinces have received from the federal government. I'd like to start with that. Can I get a commitment out of the Minister that she is going to provide a written update briefing on the status of the negotiations and whether we are actually at a point of getting an agreement? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Madam Chair, absolutely, we will provide a written update on where exactly we are with that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1962

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I appreciate that commitment from the Minister. Likewise, on the MVRMA transition: as I understood, there had to be some kind of an agreed-upon study to look at whether any further authority might be delegated or legislative authority might be provided to GNWT. What is the status of that work? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Madam Chair, I'll turn that to Mr. Goldney.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Deputy Minister Goldney.

Page 1962

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. The focus of that work, at least in the initial phases, has been to engage with Indigenous governments and try and come, to the extent possible, to a common understanding of what might be appropriate to see more authority delegated. That is what officials have been working on with Indigenous governments. Indigenous governments, of course, have their own priorities, too, so a lot of that focus and a lot of those resources were first directed at the development of the intergovernmental council protocol on legislative development. Now that that work has been successfully completed, there are more discussions expected on the MVRMA work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1962

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm trying to find a way to not delve too much into the weeds here, but I'm hoping that the Minister would actually consult with this side of the House before an offshore accord would be signed or there had been an agreement reached with the intergovernmental council on what might get studied in terms of the MVRMA. Can the Minister make that commitment, that she would consult with Regular MLAs before signing off on this kind of an arrangement so we would actually know what our government is doing? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1962

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely, I will make that commitment that, prior to signing, I will give an update to standing committee on the status. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1962

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes. I just want to nail that down, that, before an offshore accord would get signed, this side would have an opportunity to look at it and give some feedback. That's one commitment, and then I'll follow it up with a second one. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will make a commitment that we will work with the other side to receive some feedback, but recognizing, Madam Chair, that there are other parties involved in this work, as well. I cannot commit that whatever the committee says shall be written in stone. We have other parties at the table. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes. I fully understand that. Look, it's a complicated arrangement. It involves IRC. It involves the Government of Yukon, the federal government; I get it. However, on the MVRMA side, I'd like to get the same commitment from the Minister that, before an agreement that might be negotiated with the intergovernmental council, this side of the House would have an opportunity to provide some input into, or at least understand and know and give some feedback on, what we might agreeing to in terms of MVRMA transition. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, I will commit that we will provide an update to standing committee and take their feedback. Again, that one involves even more parties at the table. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. You gotta love the way that we try to govern ourselves here, and that's the way it should be, that we try to find ways to work together. I appreciate that, and this side of the House has a legitimate role in that, as well. I wanted to ask a couple of questions, if I could. I'm trying to understand the difference between setting up the Gender Equity Unit, which I generally support, and what the relationship is to the Status of Women Council. If someone can just sort of explain the differences in roles and responsibilities there? I'm just a little bit worried that there might be starting to get a little bit of overlap, a fuzziness, there. Can I get an explanation? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to try to deal with this politically sensitive topic. The Gender Equity Unit will be working within the GNWT, as the deputy minister said, to look at things such as the Truth and Reconciliation of Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women, specifically, and some of the gender issues within our government. The Status of Women Council, within previous governments before that, were kind of used as a support for the Government of the Northwest Territories. However, in the last government, Members who were in that last government remember that the Status of Women Minister at that time was told, "Hands off. Do not work with them. Do not tell them what to do. Do not ask them for any guidance, except for taking their annual report."

Within this government, you will see that the problem was that the legislation says that that council was responsible to the Minister and to support the Minister. The last government bound the Minister's hands and didn't have any authority over that council. Because of that and wishing to support as many services as possible, what we're doing in this government is: we are actually looking at changing the act for the Status of Women Council. I can't say what that looks like yet, because we're working with the Status of Women, but recognizing that we need a unit. You cannot have a Minister responsible for the Status of Women, very critical, without having staffing, so this is about getting the proper support so that the Minister responsible for the Status of Women no longer, in this government, will only have one person trying to save the world. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes. I was in the last Assembly, too, and anything I can do to support the independence of the Status of Women Council, I am right there for them. They need to be independent and be able to give the Minister and this government whatever advice they see fit and have the resources to do so. I just wanted to get that on the record, and there should be no confusion about their independence whatsoever. I think it already exists in the current legislation. If we want to reinforce that and improve it, let's do it and let's do it quickly, but they are and should always be independent of this government and adequately resourced. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier, do you have any comments?

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the Member just answered his last question himself. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Does anybody have any further questions? Member for Nunakput.

Page 1963

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just for clarity, it's a thought to myself, when you start seeing an agreement by March 31^st for offshore oil and gas, that's like music to my ears because, this territory, we are resource rich and we're cash poor. Potentially this could get the whole Beaufort-Delta back to work. That being said, I'm in full support of what you're doing in regard to getting this done, because my riding, with all the oil and gas we have up there, we're going to make your diamond mine look small down here. That's all good, though. Thank you. I support you, Madam Premier, and thank you, Mr. Goldney. Keep up the good work. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Do you have any comments, Madam Premier?

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's devolution. It's about having northern voices for the northern territories, and I am also a strong proponent of northern people. We live here. We have to have a say in what we do with our own, onshore and offshore. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Are there any further questions under the directorate? Seeing no further questions, please turn to page 119. Executive and Indigenous Affairs, directorate, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $6,511,000. Does committee agree?

Page 1963

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We will now move on to the executive council offices, beginning on page 122, with information items on page 124. Questions? Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. The active positions on page 124, can we just get some explanation as to the extra position and whether there are other positions being deleted and added? That kind of information would actually be more helpful to have in the future, as well, if there are positions going in and out on that page, but what is the extra position next year going to be? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe it's the communications, but I'll ask Amy Kennedy for confirmation.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Yes. Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1963

Kennedy

Thank you, Madam Chair. The addition of a position in this area is the new senior communications analyst position. The position is being transferred from Cabinet support.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Ms. Kennedy. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm just trying to understand this. One of the communications persons who is working for Cabinet support is now going to be working for Cabinet communications? Sorry. Can I get another explanation? Thanks.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. No. The board registry position is being deleted, and then the extra communications is being put in here. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. How many people already work at Cabinet communications? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1963

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Kennedy will look it up. Do you want to turn that to Ms. Kennedy?

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Ms. Kennedy.

Page 1963

Kennedy

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm sorry. I don't have the exact number of Cabinet communications people right here within my information.

Page 1963

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Maybe Madam Premier can get back to the Member with that. Thanks. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1963

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. This extra position, is that position going to be working with the Minister or the Premier or all of Cabinet? Sorry. I'm confused at the best of times. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1964

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Each Minister has a Cabinet communications support kind of switch between sharing with them. However, with the COVID-19, I heard from the Assembly over and over again, "Get out there more," "Get more things in the paper," so this position is actually geared towards the Premier's office. That's why you see the Facebooks coming more. You'll see more messaging. Every two weeks, we're out there in front of the cameras, but it also works very closely with the, I don't know what the position is, director of Cabinet communications. I might be giving him a demotion in title, but the head of Cabinet communications, they work very closely together to ensure that the whole of Cabinet gets the support necessary. It is specifically mostly for the Premier's office. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1964

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I'm happy that the Premier is going to get some extra communication support. I'm just wondering how all the rest of it fits together within Cabinet and across the GNWT. Has there actually been a review of the communications function within GNWT ever done, and if so, how recent is it? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1964

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that we are working on it, but I don't know if we have done a review. I will turn that to Martin Goldney.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Page 1964

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am aware of two reviews in relatively recent memory. Those reviews informed the transformation efforts that we began to implement in 2018. They would have been shortly before that time period. Sorry, Madam Chair, I don't recall offhand just when they were done precisely.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1964

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Maybe I could ask the Minister if she could commit to give us those reports or summaries of them just so that we can see what's there. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1964

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that lots of government documents get put on shelves and are a hard time to find, but I will try to find those documents is my commitment. In fact, I want to look at them myself. Madam Chair, absolutely. If we can find them, we will produce them.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Page 1964

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. We will have a great time comparing notes, then, afterwards. I appreciate that commitment. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. No further questions? Are there any further questions under Executive Council offices? Seeing no further questions, please turn to page 123. Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Executive Council offices, operations expenditures summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $4,460,000. Does committee agree?

Page 1964

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, please turn to Indigenous and intergovernmental affairs, beginning on page 125, with information items on 128 to 131. Questions? Member for Thebacha.

Page 1964

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is one of my main concerns because I don't see any progress, and I haven't been briefed yet with regards to settlement of claims and implementation of claims. Some of the concerns that I listened to on the weekend from a couple of Aboriginal groups is that, most of the time, people are going without mandates. Negotiators are going without mandates to the meetings, and I just wonder if that is going to change. That's my first question, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1964

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a misconception that the negotiators on behalf of the GNWT don't have mandates, but actually, they do have mandates. The difficulty is: sometimes, if there is an ask that is more than they are mandated to do, they can't sign those off. They are negotiators; they are not Ministers. Anything that has a financial number to it cannot be signed by any individual Member, even a Minister, unless it's an approved budget. If it's a financial ask or something like that, it does have to come through the Executive Council. That is the issue. It's not that they don't have mandates. It's when the mandates' limits are exceeded that they have to come back and get more approval. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Page 1964

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have been part of the implementation of the Salt River claim, and federal negotiators have access to deputy minister in Ottawa to make a decision. We don't have that here. They always have to go back. If you only have two meetings or three meetings a year, you'll never get a claim settled. I am wondering if there is a way that we could expedite some of these claims. When you settle a claim, it's beneficial to the area that the claim is settled. There is always financial input into the community. There are jobs. I am concerned especially with my area, the implementation of the Salt River claim to its fullness, and I am also concerned about the NWT-Metis Nation claim. There is not a lot of movement, and I am concerned about that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1964

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually, I would beg to differ. Actually, there has been quite a bit of movement within this government on the status of the claims at this point, more so than in the previous government, when I was part of Cabinet. With the NWT Metis Nation process, we have come to a place where we have a framework agreement for the self-government. I think that is just less than a month that we have settled that. With the Manitoba and Athabasca Denesuline transboundary negotiations, we have an agreement in principle which is going through consultation with the Indigenous governments applicable, Indigenous governments within here. With the Akaitcho Dene First Nations, we have an agreement in principle that I believe we are just at the point of signing, which will come. Thank you, Madam Chair. We have made progress.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

Page 1964

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Madam Chair, I met with a group on the weekend, and there was a group that is very concerned about the transboundary agreements that are coming forth with the Denesuline and the Manitoba group because they said that, once that is signed, because the previous government was in court with litigation with that, and now it seems to be that we are going along with the federal government and letting them do that. Any time there is any development within those areas, the people in the territories are subject to section 35, and we have to agree to consult them when it's our land. Those are big issues, and people are really, really concerned about that.

They are also concerned that they are also going to get seats on the Mackenzie Valley water board. There will be three of them. There are three, I think, decided, wanted to go on. Part of this whole Denesuline and the Manitoba group or whatever, agreeing to transboundary agreements within the Northwest Territories is unacceptable. That is what I was told. It's unacceptable, and it's going to be a big topic because we are not going to be going into Saskatchewan or Manitoba and start claiming lands there. No, but let's be reasonable about this, okay? I am from here, born and raised, Indigenous to this area. Salt River has lands right next to where the Denesuline want to go. Okay? Every time, if Salt River wants to do something, we will always have to go to consult once they are there. Those kinds of agreements are not okay. As MLA for Thebacha and representing these two groups, I will not be in favour of something like that because they have already told me that they are not.

I know you are going to go and consult, but going to consult and putting people at a meeting, Mr. Goldney knows this, is not consulting. People have extreme concerns about this whole thing with the transboundary and the federal government. We should not be agreeing to that. We are not going to be starting going to claim land next to Edmonton, even though the Northwest Territories paid for all of Edmonton to grow up because we all have to go there if we want to go anywhere else.

I am very strong about that because I have talked to both sides. I have also talked to people from both claims, and they have very much a concern about that. I know I am going to be on SCRIA, and I am going to have a look, and I am going to be briefed and everything. I have to make sure that people know what's happening here because not everybody has been a chief in a negotiation process. It's not a good process sometimes. I mean, Mr. Goldney knows that. We have had our differences. We have also had our whatever, and we are still friends today. It's just that transboundary thing is a major, it's going to be a major, hurdle. The previous government, under Premier McLeod, okay, you were part of that government, and we were in litigation with that. Now, all of a sudden, I see that they are going to get lands there, and that is a major concern. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1964

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Thebacha.

Page 1965

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

[Microphone turned off] ...with that. I will start by saying I had made the assumption when I first started that, you were right, any transboundary would be objected to by all Indigenous governments within the NWT, but that is not so in the Gwich'in on the Beaufort-Delta, is my understanding, because the Gwich'in do travel more. In talking to Ken Smith, it's a little bit different up there.

The transboundary in the southern area is going to be contentious. My understanding was that, before, the federal government was doing this; they were doing that with us at the table or not. Yes, Bob McLeod's government was fighting to say, "Let us be at the table. At least let us be at the table," because they were going to sign it off, be a done deal, and not even ask for consultation in the North. They have that power. My understanding is that we actually finally got to the table, and we are asking for consultation.

I did meet with the group when they signed the agreement in principle, and they asked me point blank, "How do you think the Indigenous governments will take this in the consultation?" and point blank, the head of chair, I said to them, each of them, "They will take it -- my gut, I don't know, but my gut is telling me they will take it as well as you would take it if Indigenous governments from the NWT were coming into your territory." That is my last conversation that I had with them. I do not expect the consultation on this side to go well, but I do know that, if we are not at the table, we are in danger. The federal government has been pretty clear that they have the power. Madam Chair, the deputy minister may want to expand. If he wants to, I am not sure.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. I am just going to remind the Members and remind the witnesses and everybody to talk through the chair and refrain from speaking directly to the witnesses. Thank you. Did you have anything further to add, Mr. Goldney?

Page 1965

Goldney

Thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe I will just add quickly that we do acknowledge those have been very challenging negotiations. We do expect to hear concerns from those who are being consulted with, and we do expect that we will have to listen and carefully consider everything that we hear before decisions are made. That is the goal of the consultations, but we also have to recognize that there is balancing required and that there is value in settling these long-standing grievances and disputes. I am sure all of the views will be considered carefully. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. I know this is very near and dear to our Member for Thebacha with her past of negotiations. I am going to move on to the Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1965

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just looking at the line item for Aboriginal intergovernmental meetings fund, I see that last year we were at $600,000 and this year we are at $300,000. I am just wondering if the $300,000 is the number for what this government intends to accomplish with their priorities. Thank you.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1965

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. At this point, the meeting fund, it's confusing, well, it's not really confusing. Basically, we take turns with the bilaterals, which are the meetings between executive and the Indigenous governments. One meeting, it's in their territory, and the next is in Yellowknife. It just happens that there will be more in Yellowknife this time. However, the bigger thing is that we are in COVID-19. We did not use all the money, and unless something changes throughout Canada, I don't know. We won't be doing a lot of travelling until, at minimum, the end of March, until 75 percent are vaccinated. Some Indigenous governments want in-person; they want to come to Yellowknife. Other ones do not even want to see us; they just want people to stay away from our communities. We are predicting that we won't need any more than this in the coming year unless the borders open. We are looking at September for the South. If there is need more, then we will find it internally, but at this point, we are projecting that a lot of meetings for this area will be on video conferencing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1965

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I see that there is a sunset of funding for the deputy secretary for the federal engagement strategy. I am wondering if the Premier can speak to that, please.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1965

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, I will try to be politically correct. Within the last government, we did have this position brought up. It was felt that the relationship with the federal government was not really strong. It was felt that we didn't have enough representation in Ottawa negotiating with the federal government. However, what I would like to say is that, within this government, I say to my Ministers all of the time, "It's easy to say no to someone you don't like. It's really difficult to say no to someone you like." I carried that forward, and I say it constantly to my Ministers. We have worked at the relationship with the federal government, and I meet with them on a weekly basis most often because of COVID-19. At this point, I would say that our relationship with the federal government is probably one of the strongest that we have had in many, many, many years. At this point, we feel that we do not need that position because we are meeting weekly. The federal government is working with us, and our relationship is strong. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1965

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. During the 18^th Assembly, one of the concerns that I understood was that there was a question of whether or not federal Ministers in Ottawa understood the reality of life in the Northwest Territories. This was one of the tasks that the deputy secretary for federal engagement was tasked with accomplishing. I'm wondering if this is still a concern for this government. Thank you.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Page 1965

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, absolutely. That was the priority as they didn't know enough about the North. Again, because of COVID-19, we have been meeting weekly with the Prime Minister and Chrystia Freeland. I have access to the top Ministers. The meetings have increased because of it.

The other thing, too, is we work very closely with the Yukon government and the Nunavut government, and because of that tightness that we have formed, and really strengthened those relationships, as well, you are seeing things for the North. I think they are understanding. COVID is a great example. They identified Indigenous communities. They could have just said "reserves." That's often one of the problems that we had in the NWT was all of the money for Indigenous people went to reserves versus off-reserve, which is the majority of us, but because of the advocacy within Nunavut, ourselves, and the Yukon government, the three territories are getting vaccinations quicker than any jurisdiction in the whole country. That, in itself, Madam Chair, speaks to the relationships that we have formed with this federal government.

I do think that the federal government does have a better understanding. Do they understand us completely? Absolutely not. They will not understand us completely until they can at least come and fly here, not just in and out and stay at the Explorer Hotel and leave, but until they actually live here.

Like I say, Madam Chair, at this point, we do not feel that this position is necessary. In the spirit of trying not to leave the next government with no money, if we have a position that we don't feel is necessary, why would we continue with it? In fairness, the position was wonderful. The person did a great job, but it's not necessary at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1965

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. One of the responsibilities of this position was to put together a federal engagement strategy to guide the relationships, and not only the relationships, but also the key messaging coming out of the Northwest Territories. Is this strategy something that still exists today or is being updated with this government? Thank you.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Page 1965

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that position is still responsible for doing it. In fairness to the position, and in fairness to my own office staff, that work has actually been done across departments. The principal secretary, the Cabinet secretary, have spent a lot of time with that. We are still using that position a little bit. It does not justify the amount of money. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1965

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It's always wonderful to hear that relationships are going well. I think that's really important, and I am happy to hear that they are effective relationships, that Ministers are speaking with federal Ministers, and life in the North is becoming clearer to federal Ministers. I am wondering if the Premier feels that potentially we will be looking at 100 percent fully-funded infrastructure projects, then, given that federal Ministers understand life in the North better now. Thank you.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.

Page 1965

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's part of my ask. However, we can't just say that a good relationship means that they are going to give us 100 because they are not giving 100 percent to any jurisdiction. I would like to say that the federal Ministers also have their own jurisdictions. They also want to get re-elected again. If they are not even giving their own, I can't expect that, just because they understand the needs, that they would just give us all the money. However, in saying that, it doesn't mean I'm not asking for it. Thank you.

Page 1965

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 1966

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. My nod, sorry, was because I'm done, but since we're here: I think that, even though they have their own ridings to serve, the Northwest Territories is unique in its needs and is unique in its history. That speaks for something, and I think that anybody, regardless of where they live, wants to be able to see that people have a fair shot at basic infrastructure. I'm happy that Cabinet is asking for 100 percent infrastructure dollars, and I encourage them to keep doing so. Thank you.

Page 1966

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Members, we don't have enough time for another Member to get through their ten minutes of questions. I will turn it to Mr. Norn.

Page 1966

Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Madam Chair, I ask that we rise and report progress.

Page 1966

The Chair Lesa Semmler

There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress.

Page 1966

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

May I have the report, please, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Committee Motion 76-19(2): Tabled Document 286-19(2): Main Estimates 2021-2022 - Education, Culture and Employment - Deferral of Department (page 137), Carried

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