Thanks, Madam Chair. Committee would like to consider Tabled Document 286-19(2), Main Estimates 2021-2022, with Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the first item. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to continue on with Executive and Indigenous Affairs, and we will continue on page 126, Indigenous and intergovernmental affairs operations expenditure. Madam Premier, are your witnesses here?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I have witnesses.

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Welcome. Madam Premier, will you please introduce your witnesses for the record.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With me today, I have Mr. Martin Goldney, the secretary to Cabinet and the deputy minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, and Ms. Amy Kennedy, the director of Shared Corporate Services for Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Welcome back. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. There are three areas I'd like to question on page 126. Maybe I'll start with the lines around implementation, intergovernmental relations, and negotiations. There is no increase in any of those lines. You know, I was in the 18^th Assembly. The candidate who eventually became the Premier promised that all of the ongoing negotiations were going to be completed in the four years. Do you know how many agreements we actually reached in four years? One. It was an agreement in principle for self-government in Norman Wells, for the Metis local there. One agreement in four years. Madam Chair, I don't want to be back in that position at the end of this Assembly, and I continually hear from negotiators, people involved in the negotiations with Indigenous governments, that the problem now at the table is GNWT. It's not the federal government anymore. They are a minor player, for the most part. The problem is our government. That's really not a great place to be, to start with.

I know that we have a new Cabinet and they promised new things, but there is nothing to deliver on that promise in this budget, no additional resources. Anyway, my question for the Minister here is: do the negotiators at any of these tables have new mandates that have been developed by this Cabinet to try to move this forward, and why is there no new money in here to try to help move these negotiations along? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. At the beginning of this Assembly, we did have a presentation to the Executive on the negotiations. They do have mandates. They know exactly what. As stated yesterday, Madam Chair, the difficulty is that, when it becomes too financial, monies et cetera, they need to actually come back to the executive for approval. The negotiators are not executive. They do not have that authority to make excessive decisions without a Cabinet approval. That is a common process. In the last government, they said that they would all be done; probably not the best commitment to make on the floor. We never committed to that.

Why is there no new money? We have spent the last year and a bit that we have been in the government actually working on those relationships. Again, because of COVID-19, it has allowed me to actually meet more regularly with Indigenous governments. We have built relationships. We have had governments come to us that had said they were not going to work with us, and, because of the relationships that we have formed over this new government, they are coming back to the table. So I do have hope that, within this government, I am not naive enough to say that we will have them all done, but you will see progress within this government. If we need extra money because of that, then I will go back to the executive and ask for supplementary funding. However, at this point, Madam Chair, I do not see that we need it. I think that the negotiations are going fairly well, considering the detail and the difficulties with negotiations. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I am happy to work with the Premier and this Cabinet on this, but I am going to narrow my question right down. Have new mandates been provided to any of the negotiators since this Cabinet came in, yes or no? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's difficult to say, and I would like to say yes or no. I hear the Member wants that, but it's difficult to say exactly what the mandates were before. I never was privy to that. What they have is there are three areas of negotiations that they have, and, like I said, in those areas, it's a trilateral negotiation. It's the federal government, the Indigenous governments, and ourselves; land quantum, royalties, and cash. When those issues come, when they are about to sign, they come back to Cabinet, and they ask what we are doing, and then we give direction with that. At this point, Madam Chair, I know I hear people saying they do not have the mandate and stuff, but I am not exactly a hundred percent sure what they are talking about. At this point, like I said, there is nothing that specifies that "thou shalt do this," but I will look further into it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I am not going to belabour this because my time is getting burned up here, but, if the Minister does not know whether the negotiators have actually had their mandates changed in any way since the new Cabinet has come in, we have got a real problem here, Houston. If those negotiators have not received new mandates or direction from this Cabinet and we are a third of the way through our term, I am seriously worried. I am going to leave it at that, Madam Chair, for this area, but I want to move on to my next one. That is a little bit of a warning that, if we are a third of the way through and we have not given new mandates, I do not know where we are going.

I want to turn to the line here about Aboriginal and intergovernmental meetings fund. Last year, in the main estimates, it was $300,000, but we spent $600,000 during COVID-19. We spent $600,000, twice what was budgeted. Now, it's going back down to $300,000, and, as I understand it, Cabinet continues to sign new agreements. We have seen news releases on, I think, one or two of these recently. How can the money go down when we are signing more agreements and more money was spent during COVID but we are budgeting less for the next year? It just does not compute. Can I get an explanation, very briefly? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I may ask my DM to expand on what I am saying. There is a cycle of how the MOUs are done. One year, the Indigenous governments will meet in Yellowknife, and the next year we will meet in their communities, et cetera, so that does make an impact on the budgets regarding where the travel is. Madam Chair, I would like the deputy minister to expand.

Thank you. Deputy Minister Goldney.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I guess I would like to respectfully say that, if it was increased during a year with COVID, we are probably going to need more money for the year coming up, but I am going to leave it at that.

I want to move on to federal engagement, where the positions, the support money for that office in Ottawa has been cut. I was sceptical of that work to begin with, in the last Assembly, but I guess I pushed this with the Premier, some of my colleagues on the other side several times, about the importance of not just meeting with a party that is in political power, that holds the majority in the House of Commons. We are now in a situation where it's a minority government; there is going to be an election probably within the next year, and I heard from the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment the other day that his job is not to talk to the opposition parties. I am sorry. Cabinet's job is to talk to the opposition parties when they go to Ottawa, not just the party in power, because, guess what, a year, year and a half from now, they may not be in power. If we want to have any influence on federal policy, you have got to work with the opposition parties. They are the ones who raise issues in the House of Commons and so on. I want to hear from the Premier directly: what is our position and approach in working with opposition parties in the federal House of Commons? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The protocol within the GNWT is that Ministers deal directly with federal ministers applicable to their portfolios; the Premier deals directly with the Prime Minister or the leaders of parties as appropriate. Yes, the Ministers have not met. We do not know who the ministers of the opposition will be, but we do know who the leaders will be, and so I have made phone calls to all of the leaders of the oppositions, and we are lining them up again. We will continue to have phone calls, making sure that each party that will be putting their name forward understands the needs of the North, and, as many commitments as I can get from that, then that is our goal. So I am meeting regularly and will continue to meet regularly with the opposition members as well as the party in power at this point. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First off, I would just like to make a comment that I am glad to see this is one area where the travel budget has gone down for once, so perhaps there has been a little bit more of a COVID lens put on that one. As well, I am really happy to see that there is an increase in funding, or more than was spent in 2019, towards the Metis organizations. I guess my question is around the NWT friendship centres and the fact that we are no longer funding money there. I know that I have been approached by friendship centres, EDs et cetera, asking for that funding to continue. I think the friendship centres in the North do really good things, and I am just curious to understand why we have gone from funding at $250,000 in 2019-2020 to nothing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do remember this. It was in the last Assembly, and I was part of that Assembly. The original intent of the $250,000 was to actually build capacity for the friendship centres so that they could access other sustainable funding. The goal was that they would hire a coordinator, and that person's job would be to actually solidify funding. Sadly, Madam Chair, I am not sure if that happened as much, but what I can say is that the friendship centre has met with Cabinet, has presented to us on their needs. My worry is that that it's more than just throwing money. We need to work with these friendship centres, too. If we gave them $250,000 to develop a position so that they could actually build the capacity for fundraising, and that didn't work, Madam Chair, then I think we need to reach out to them as well and see what other support we can give them. Perhaps it's proposal writing. Perhaps it's business. It's more than just money. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you for that. I agree that we don't want to just give people money and set them up for failure. However, to go from such a large amount to nothing, and then just from the conversation that I have had with them, it sounds like this is hurting them and their bottom line and their ability to deliver services. While maybe that $250,000 was a one-time thing to do a certain role, they are crying out for money and funding. They provide good services, so I would like to encourage the Cabinet to think about adding a line here at least to give them some additional funds, particularly in light of COVID.

This will probably be a pretty self-explanatory question, but I'm looking at the special events funding to Indigenous organizations. We have always been at what looks like typical budget of $50,000 a year and obviously was less in 2019-2020, and I'm guessing that has to do with the cancellation of certain events. Is the department looking at any way to increase this past the $50,000 or to help the communities adapt or change their events to a virtual form or to make them more social distant? We have seen adaptations to drive-thru type scenarios, although that does increase greenhouse gases, so I don't know if that's our solution. I am just curious to know if the department is looking at anything like that. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There are two events that we usually support. One is the Aboriginal Days, and the other one is Treaty Days. The Member is absolutely right, Madam Chair. Things are different, and it might be different this summer, but the budget is there. We need to be flexible. I will reach out to them. If they are looking at other methods, then absolutely, we need to be flexible to be able to work with them. If they are looking at virtual, we will still provide it. The funding does not say, "This is what thou shalt do." The funding is to support the event, and if they are doing the event anyway, then I don't see any reason that we would say no. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would actually even ask maybe a little bit further, if this funding is not accessed for specifically National Indigenous Peoples Day or the Treaty Days, that you do just open it up as a general pot to the communities to put on well-being events or high spirits type of events. I can't get my language right after five days of this. I really do think that the more the government can do to raise the spirits of our people by funding events in communities, that will not only put dollars into those communities, they have an effect of raising people's spirits, and I think that we are going to need to see that more and more over the next few months. I am already hearing people fatigued with winter, and we are only at February 12^th, so I think it's only going to get worse. More of a comment than anything. That's all, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, COVID-19 is a time of exceptional situations. I do agree with the Member that we need to be flexible. If the organizations that don't traditionally access this don't need all of the funding, then yes, I think that we should be able to do other wellness events. Indigenous rights and treaties, et cetera, are critically important, but if they are not going to access it all, we should be looking at other events. Cultural events, I'll call them, so that they fit within my line budget. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to talk about the funding, or lack of funding, I guess, for the NWT friendship centres. They have also reached out to me, and I expect that they have reached out to other MLAs. They were provided the money, $250,000, for capacity building. In reality, we know the issues that they have to deal with on a daily basis with the limited amount of funds that they have, and they try and stretch those dollars. When I hear that we don't want to set them up for failure, those terms are usually used when we are talking about Aboriginal organizations or people. With COVID, I think the friendship centres have actually proved their worth. The $250,000 that they received is minimal. One person once told me that if you want money, ask for lots, and people will probably give it to you. If you ask for too little, they won't give it to you, or they will drag it out, because a little amount, they can wrap their head around. A big amount, they can't.

We have to look at the organization for what it is, and that's to provide services to not only Aboriginal people, but people in the community. I don't think it's incumbent upon us to tell them how to use that money. I know they have to put in a proposal, and it's government money, but it's not like they go out there and waste that money. The money that they spend and the funds they get are important to the communities and to the people. I would just ask the Premier to have the department just take a real hard look at this. It's $250,000. We just knocked $300,000 off of Aboriginal consultation and relations. I think the funds are there, and they will go to good use. I have no doubt about that. I think the Premier realizes that, as well, and the rest of the Members here. I would ask that the department make a commitment to providing something to them. We need some good news stories out there, especially to organizations that are doing good for the people in the North. I would just like the Premier to comment on that and say, "Yes, we'll give them some money." Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. There is no doubt that friendship centres provide a valuable service. All of our NGOs out there are providing exceptional services and usually more cost-effective than the GNWT. No disrespect to our own GNWT. They usually don't have as many unions and cost, et cetera. We do have an exceptional funding pot. I don't remember what it's called. Perhaps I can look within that. We are still trying to do up a policy, but I believe that there is still some funding in that. Madam Chair, I am not making a solid commitment, but I make a commitment that I will certainly look into it and see if there are areas that I can find to support the friendship centres. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's what I wanted to hear. At least make a commitment to look at the friendship centres, at the work they do, and let's recognize it. They will be happy, I will be happy, and all the MLAs here will be happy. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If you're so happy, that means that that's your one ask for all of the MLAs? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Any further questions? Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that we have heard a couple of times, and we have even heard in the last government, that the Akaitcho agreement-in-principle was close. Do we have an expected date of when we think that will occur? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I need to clarify that it's kind of at a draft. The Akaitcho needs to go to their membership. There is a process that happens within that, and out of respect, Madam Chair, I can't give a timeline. They need to go back to their membership. They need to talk about what the offer is on the table, and then they need to come back. I want it done. I want it signed. I do believe that self-government is the right answer. I've said it many, many times that, if we support self-governments, it helps us. The more money that they have, the more jobs they can get for their own membership, the fewer people who are struggling, especially in small communities, would be in our housing programs and our income supports. So my goal is to sign it within this Assembly, but my respect is that I will not push any Indigenous government to hurry it based on my timeline. I need to respect the process that they are in right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just based on past experience in settling land claims, do we have an estimate of what we think it would take once we get the AIP to actually have a final modern treaty? I recognize there are multiple variables, there, but are we talking months or years? Is there an estimate of how long it takes to get from an AIP to a settled claim for Akaitcho? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, that's impossible to do, to say that. I have given direction to my department. When the Indigenous governments are at the table and ready to negotiate, ready to talk, we're there. Put everything aside and make it your priority. When the Indigenous governments say, "Back off," we back off. So, out of respect, Madam Chair, I can't give a timeline. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In our mandate, we commit to working with a number of independent facilitators to resolve outstanding issues. Can I just get a sense of how many tables have independent facilitators? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If you can pass that on to Deputy Minister Martin Goldney.

Thank you. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In the previous Assembly, we had I wouldn't necessarily call them facilitators. There were people who essentially reviewed the land claims. I think most notably, the Thomas Isaac report. Do we have any tables where we have asked for some sort of third-party review of the process to provide suggestions? Is that a strategy that this government is employing again? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, at this point, I've been focusing on building relationships and, so far, Madam Chair, it's working quite well. Like I said, governments that said, "We don't want anything to do with you," are coming back to the table. Trust is critically important, and the belief in the leader is critically important. We don't have any specific work groups or anything that are working on that, except, Madam Chair, we have the Indigenous reconciliation committee that, Madam Chair, you are the chair of, and part of that goal is to, within the term of this government, give us recommendations on how we can move forward, is my understanding of that focus. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the other mandate things is that we will review, update, and publish territorial principles and interests to reflect the GNWT's new priorities and mandate, and then, in spring 2021, we are expecting principles and interests to be updated and published. Can I just get clarification on what principles and interests are? Is there an existing document that sets out our principles and interests? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to turn that to the deputy minister, Martin Goldney.

Deputy Minister Goldney.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I think that's helpful work, to kind of have an overarching vision and, hopefully, it can trickle down into the mandates. Can I just get clarification of whether we are on track to publish principles and interests in this spring 2021, and whether they will actually be made public? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, absolutely, Madam Chair. We are on track, and we will be able to publish that on the timeline. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Another one of the issues that I hear from Indigenous governments and negotiating tables is the NWT development of core principles and objectives. I think often, at the self-government table, Indigenous governments want to simply draw down power and not have service standards by GNWT for how they would then exercise that jurisdiction. I don't believe this government has updated the core principles and objectives since the last one. Is there any intention to do that or to let governments draw down powers and then, maybe after we have an agreement, work on what we believe the core principles and objectives they should adhere to are? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm trying to think back to when I first started. It was one of the first documents I actually looked at, and I had concerns with it, as well, Madam Chair. I brought it to my staff and I asked them what this was about. I recognize in those conversations that it's about basic standards of care. There are things about children having rights to, I can't remember, basic rights that children should have. I felt at that point that they were pretty basic and standard across, but I also respect that Indigenous governments might have taken offense to it and said, "How dare you even assume that?" Madam Chair, I've heard that there have been issues with that, but I haven't heard it personally from the Indigenous governments. I've heard it from staff. What we are doing is a multilateral table outside of the intergovernmental council tables. There are two different tables, one with all of the Indigenous governments and one that has the land claims and self-governments. I think, in fairness, Madam Chair, what I will commit to, and I will put it forward as an agenda topic, is that perhaps it's time we need to have those discussions. I can't say when. Again, at that table, I'm one of many partners, but I will put it forward as an agenda item. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't think there are necessarily too many highly objectionable things in the core principles and objectives. They're pretty high-level, but I do think there are program models that necessarily wouldn't fit into them. I guess the problem I see is that this is a discussion to me that should come after you have have self-government and after the Indigenous government has funding and is setting up the programs. We should be working with them and providing assistance. I don't think it's appropriate. I think the order is out of place, where it is conditional that these be imputed to in order to draw down power. I guess my question is: outside of bringing it to the Cabinet table and having a discussion about changing these, are we willing to presently give Indigenous governments self-government powers without having them agree to the core principles and objectives first? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, I'd like to be able to say yes or no, but I think, in that situation, it does deserve a discussion with the Indigenous governments before I make that. There are reasons on both sides why I think that these were put in place. I think Canada has a place in that, as well. I do commit, Madam Chair, that I will revisit that, not on my own, but with the Indigenous governments around the table, and that shall be a discussion we'll have in the term of this government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Deh Cho.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I just wanted to support comments made by a couple of the Members regarding NWT friendship centres. I know, in my community, they provide a lot of services to lots of folks who aren't working at this time. There would be sewing centres, awareness of COVID, of different issues, family violence and whatnot. I see a real need for that, because it can create employment in a small community, too, whereas now they don't have a whole lot of funding to be able to do that. Anything that they can get for the friendship centres can really help in that regard. I just wanted to make that comment there.

The other one is the special events for National Indigenous Peoples Day. That's what it's being called now, I guess. $50,000, I don't know how much that stretches out to all of the communities, because not too many bands are in good financial situations. It's very low. They aren't able to host large celebrations where they can offer more, because, in this day and age now, even to host a drum dance, all of the drummers want to be paid well. What I notice is we don't get the good drummers because we aren't paying them well. It's funny how that works. Not only that, for all of the other events that we like to host, the prize monies are just not enough. I am just wondering if we could increase that funding a little bit there just to help out the small communities. That's more of a comment.

The other one I noticed is that, I don't know where devolution funding comes in under this heading or whether you've dealt with it already, but I know that the two governments, the Akaitcho and Deh Cho, don't receive any type of funding in that regard. I'm just wondering if there would be consideration for something like good faith funding since you're on First Nations land and you recognize the First Nations as the true owners of the lands. Now you're pulling leases, taxes, from the people. Maybe something like this would go a long ways in soothing the fractured relations within the parties. I'm just wondering if something like that could be considered, since there is no other funding coming to those governments who are left out of the devolution agreement. Mahsi.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Respectfully, I beg to differ with the honourable Member in that every young drummer is an excellent drummer. In my opinion, every person who picks up any kind of traditional instrument, or begins to sew, or begins to fish or hunt, is excellent in my opinion. I don't want to quash people. They need to be brought up because they learn as they grow; all of us, even as we're old.

With the money for the special events funding, like I said already, if this money is not needed by the organizations that currently have it, we would be willing to look at using it for other issues. I have already made that commitment.

The devolution money is the intergovernmental council. Madam Chair, I made a commitment, and I'm not sure what session it was when I was asked that by Members, that I would bring it back to the intergovernmental council table, and I fulfilled that commitment. Madam Chair, I have said many times at that table that I am not the boss. I am one member of all of us as equal governments around that table. When I did bring it back again, I never gave them yes or no, because for me, it's about sharing the money.

I heard strongly around that table that the governments that were there have signed onto devolution, have made sacrifices, and are part of that table. Any Indigenous government that is not at that table is more than welcome to join that table, to sign onto devolution, but until that happens, the Indigenous governments around that table told me strongly that they did not want this to go further. Madam Chair, I carried the message that I committed to, and I carry it back and relay the message that was given to me by all of the Indigenous governments around that table. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Deh Cho.

No further comments. Mahsi.

Thank you. Are there any further questions? I don't think we have any more. No further questions. Please turn to page 126. Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Indigenous and intergovernmental affairs, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $7,491,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you, Members. Please return now to the departmental summary found on page 109. Executive and Indigenous Affairs, operations expenditures, total department, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $22,428,000. Does committee agree? Mr. O'Reilly.