This is page numbers 2493 - 2524 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was care.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe the reduction is approximately $1.4 million.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Are there any plans, then, to make up this lost revenue somewhere else in the tax system? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is not an occasion where there will be a commensurate raising of taxes or introduction of a new tax to directly offset the $1.4 million revenue loss. What is hoped, however, is that, by helping the sector become more competitive and helping small businesses be more competitive, we will see economic growth, which then can ultimately help create more taxpayers in the form of more small businesses, which can hopefully offset the revenue lost from the tax rate change. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I take it from what the Minister said that there are not going to be any efforts to look at replacing the revenues in some way. How is the Minister going to apply this concept of tax fairness across the other kinds of taxes that we have to pay? Look, I heard the Minister characterize taxes as "burdens" earlier on. Taxes are actually the price of civilization. Governments don't run without taxes or some source of revenue, so how is the Minister going to apply this concept of fairness across other parts of the tax system? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point in the course of where we're at in our response to the pandemic and recovery from the pandemic, there was certainly a conscious decision that there would not be new taxes introduced in this particular budget, and there are no new taxes introduced in this particular budget. That's sort of a short-term response. I understand that the question really is looking at something much larger and much broader, and I have made inquiries with the department to look into what impacts there would be on individuals if we were to increase the tax burden for certain filers. At this point, the benefits are such that, unless we were to increase rates significantly, we would not be seeing an offset of this tax savings. We would simply be putting a pretty significant burden on a very small number of people, again, without necessarily making up for this particular change. At this moment in time, Madam Chair, again, there is not an increase intended or expected, whether it's to other income tax rates on the personal side or on the corporate side. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I do appreciate that. Is the Minister willing to share some of that kind of analysis that she talked about? In the past, there have been revenue options papers generated by Finance Ministers. Is the Minister willing to make public perhaps an updated version of a tax options paper, or a revenue options paper, in preparation for the next budget? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was pleased to get that suggestion last year, probably around this time, and I am happy to receive it and be reminded again. The process of going through budget dialogues and putting some of the information out was very helpful to me in this role but, I think, also to the department. We will certainly make sure that we engage in this process. I think, having adapted to COVID-19, it will be earlier this year than last year. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes. I appreciate it, and I did look at the materials that the Minister had used for her dialogue. I think the tax stuff in it was just a couple of slides, so a fuller version of an options paper would be much more helpful. Is that something the Minister could do? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we will certainly make sure that there's a more fulsome discussion around what the tax impacts could be for introducing or otherwise modifying tax rates. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I appreciate the responses from the Minister. I am about tax fairness, and I just want to give the Minister a couple of ways in which she could raise $1.4 million for the public record. She could actually keep the rental fees that are in the current exploration licence for Husky Energy and carry those over into the significant discovery licence and raise $1.4 million a year. That's one option; she doesn't really have to do very much on that one.

The other one is, and I've said this before, we're one of the few jurisdictions in Canada that only has three personal income tax brackets. Alberta has five, and they went to that in 2016. British Columbia has five; they went to that in 2014. New Brunswick has six; they went to that in 2015. Newfoundland and Labrador has five; they did that in 2015. Nova Scotia has five; they did that in 2010. Ontario has five; they did that in 2014. Yukon has five; they did that in 2015. The federal government went to five in 2016. I don't understand why we still only have three. That is something I want to encourage the Finance Minister to look at.

I am about tax fairness, and we do need to help the least advantaged people in our society. That means sometimes rich people have to pay more, and that includes me. I am happy to have that public debate and discussion. There are a couple of areas that I would like the Minister to seriously consider to replace the lost revenue from this lowering of the small business tax rate. Thanks, Madam Chair. I think that's all I've got for now. Thanks.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree, that is the kind of debate that should be happening in the House. Again, I will certainly commit to getting some of the details and financial numbers to the House so that that discussion can be brought to the floor.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions? Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I just want to say that I'm in support of this reduction. I often heard last year about how we needed to support small businesses better. The majority of the businesses in the Northwest Territories would be considered to be small businesses, so injecting $1.4 million back into our private sector, I believe, it will actually be used much more efficiently with better return on our investment than perhaps done by the Government of the Northwest Territories, no detriment to the Minister's department. However, I think this is an excellent thing, and I actually would encourage and support a further reduction for small businesses in the North. I think this is wonderful. We weren't able at the beginning to necessarily provide relief to businesses, as we took care of health and safety first. We are now into an extended lockdown, compared to what we had first planned for, and as a result, we owe our small businesses this relief. I am fully in support of it. Kudos to the Minister and her team. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Did the Minister want to respond, or you're good with that?