Thank you, Minister. Since there are no further questions under this because we have gone through everybody, please turn to page 243. Infrastructure, energy and strategic initiatives, operations expenditures, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $19,030,000. Does committee agree?
Debates of March 2nd, 2021
This is page numbers 2243 - 2298 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.
Topics
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
The Chair Lesa Semmler
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the new witness into the Chamber. Minister, will you please introduce your new witness?
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. Still with us today is deputy minister for regional operations, Gary Brennan, and we have Assistant Deputy Minister John Vandenberg for programs and services.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
The Chair Lesa Semmler
Mr. Vandenberg, welcome. Thank you, committee, and now we are going to move on to programs and services, beginning on page 247, with information items on page 249. Questions? Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd, 2021
Page 2266
Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a few questions, I think, on fuel services. I hope this is the right area. I know in my riding, in Lutselk'e, the fuel has to be shipped in there. The prices of fuel shift from year to year. I am just wondering right now: can the Minister just explain the one item here, the actuals to the main estimates, that variance? Thank you.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. When you look at the fuel services, I think that's where the Member is looking at, we had an increase of $32,000 for amortization adjustment, but there is a variance of $2.3 million, which the department absorbed expenditures in order for the fuel services division to stay within its authorized stabilization limits. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Thank you, Madam Chair. I know this is a sticky point in the community of Lutselk'e because once a price is announced, that's the price for the year, but prices for fuel are always fluctuating. I am just wondering how the department determines how they keep a certain price for fuel in the communities and how they determine what rates they are going to be charging and how they arrive at that decision. Thank you.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to get ADM Vandenberg to speak to this.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Vandenberg
Thank you. Good, I can hear myself. I thought I might have to push something. With respect to the determination of fuel prices, the fuel prices are based on a number of cost components. The cost components include the wholesale purchase price of the product itself; the commissions paid to the local community contractor for distribution of the fuel; the transportation costs of the fuel to the community; the taxes, and there are various fuel taxes that are part of that; an O and M levy, as well, which covers the cost of the overall operation for the fuel services division of the Department of Infrastructure, which includes staffing costs and office costs, various costs. All of those come together to determine the total price of fuel that is charged to the communities. Thank you.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that response. If we could get some numbers back, I would like that, for all of the communities who have to have their fuel delivered. I know it's going to be different from community to community based on what I was just told here. If we could get a breakdown by community of what the fuel prices are on average in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2266
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I believe we have a list here that we can share. Within each of the communities, in the North Slave, the Deh Cho, Sahtu, and the Beaufort-Delta, in each of the different categories, we are able to classify what the price per litre is for diesel heating, diesel motive, gasoline, naphtha, as well as jet fuel. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Thank you. I appreciate that. One other concern that was brought to me by my constituents, especially in Lutselk'e, they are always watching fuel prices. They see it on the news. All of the sudden, the price will dip for fuel, and it becomes cheaper everywhere. That happens from time to time, but the prices of the fuel in the small communities stay the same. Is there ever going to be an appetite to keep with the times? If you see the price of fuel drop across the board, will the department ever follow suit and try to keep things fair for our small communities? Thank you.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. Really good question. I wish I could say yes right now, but I don't know for sure. I am going to ask ADM Vandenberg to see if he can help me out with that answer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267
Vandenberg
Thank you, Madam Chair. The price of fuel in the communities that we serve, the Petroleum Products Program, under the fuel services division, services 16 communities in the Northwest Territories, and for each of those, as was pointed out, there is a different cost structure, different cost component. The components are the same, essentially, but the prices to do that are different. A smaller fraction of that total price is actually the wholesale price of the cost of fuel. When we see fuel fall in various parts of the country, what we have to understand is that the cost of our local contractors to distribute the fuel in the communities, the cost of transportation, the cost of our levy, our various overhead costs, they do not really change very much. Even though the price of fuel, the wholesale price, may change somewhat, the price change for the communities as in what they pay, what the citizens pay, does not change that much. I don't know if that answers the question.
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 2nd
Page 2267