In the Legislative Assembly on June 3rd, 2021. See this topic in context.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for FrameLake.

MR. O'REILLY; Thank you, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to consider Bill 25, An Act to amend the Education Act; Tabled Document 412-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures) No 1, 2021-2022; Committee Report 15-19(2), Report on Yearly Auditor General's 2020 Audit of the Early Childhood to Grade 12 Education in the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 16-19(2), Report on Housing Phase One, Needs for NWT Homeowners and Private landowners. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler) Thank you, Member. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, we'll take a short recess and resume with the first item.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we agree to consider Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act. I'll ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment to introduce the bill.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here today to present Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act. This bill seeks to amend the Education Act to allow a term of office of four years for elected district education authority trustees in cases where a DEA's community government has a four-year election cycle.

Currently, only election cycles of two and three years for DEAs are permitted by the Act. The proposed amendment arises from the 2018 change in municipal election cycles in Yellowknife from three to four-year terms of office for mayor and council.

Bill 25 would allow the two Yellowknife DEAs, Yellowknife Catholic Schools and Yellowknife District Education No. 1, to move to a four-year election cycle and realign their DEA elections with municipal elections starting in 2022. The amendment will also allow the two Yellowknife DEAs to hold interim elections for one-year terms this fall, as the current three-year terms of the DEA members ends in 2021.

I am pleased to bring forward this amendment to support our education partners in ensuring the efficient administration of their board trustee elections.

This concludes my opening remarks. I would be pleased to answer any questions that Members may have regarding Bill 25. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. I will now turn to the chair of the Standing Committee on Social Development, the committee that considered the bill for opening comments. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act received second reading in the Legislative Assembly on March 30th, 2021. It was referred to the Standing Committee on Social Development for review.

On May 31st, 2021, the standing committee held a public hearing with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and completed its clause by clause review of the bill. I thank the committee for their efforts when reviewing this legislation, and individual Members may have additional comments or questions at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister, would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Yes, I would.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, please introduce your witnesses.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. To your right is Mr. Mike Reddy, director of legislative division, Department of Justice. And to our left, making her first appearance in the chamber, Megan Wahlberg, director of policy, legislation and communications for ECE. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, and welcome. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 25. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. First off, I guess I'd like to say that I did raise -- I've met -- a number of the Yellowknife MLAs have met with the district education authorities here in Yellowknife, Yellowknife's Catholic School and YK No. 1, and we knew about the situation of how their length of term for their boards was now out of sync with city council. They requested that there be changes made to the Education Act to ensure that their term of office could be bought back in line again otherwise they'd have to hold separate elections from what the City of Yellowknife does and incur extra expenses, which I'm sure we would all rather see spent on education.

So, certainly, I supported that. I raised the issue in the House. I pushed it, even I-- earlier in this Assembly that this should get dealt with.

So I guess, first off, I'd like to know from the Minister and staff what consultation was done with the two Yellowknife school boards. And, for example, were they given a copy of the language in the bill? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. There was extensive consultation with the Yellowknife school boards. I've had numerous conversations with the chairs of those boards as well. As to the question of whether or not they were provided with the proposed language, I will hand it over to Ms. Wahlberg but first I'll note that the consultation with education bodies, and consultation in general I think, is to figure out the what not necessarily the how. And so when it comes down to the particulars of the, you know, the words used in legislation, it's our job as the government to ensure that those words achieve 'the what' that the school boards want. But I can pass it to Ms. Wahlberg for further information. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Wahlberg.

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Wahlberg

Thank you, Madam Chair and thank you, Minister. It's not my understanding that we provided the exact draft bill to the Yellowknife education bodies. However, we provided them with the plain language wording of it and they agreed to what was provided. And we made sure that they fully understood the change in the wording and the way that it was impacting the amendments to the legislation. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for FrameLake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So here's what I said in the House on February the 6th, 2020, about these bills when I was asking questions to the Minister of Education. The situation for CSFTNO, which is Commission Scolaire Francophone des Territoires du Nord-Ouest, which is the Francophone school board, is different as I mentioned in my statement, in that its commission represent two communities that now have different cycles for their municipal elections. So I raise the issue that CSFTNO, based in the two communities, that there was an issue here, that I wanted to make sure that whatever changes were going to be made in the Education Act would not adversely affect CSFTNO. So can someone explain to me whether there was the same sort of consultation or consideration given to CSFTNO on development of this bill? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. So there was definitely consideration given to CSFTNO and the effects of this bill would have on them. And it was our understanding that this bill would have no effect and, in fact, they expressed that they were in a different situation than the other school boards. They're in two communities, and they don't align their elections with either municipality. They have a different way of conducting elections. They don't require the same voters list and enumeration and things like that. But as it turns out, there are regulations that-- under the Education Act, that reference term lengths of other education bodies in education districts and that is really a remnant of when the French first language school board was created. And so in an indirect way, these changes will affect the CSFTNO. And, again, we know what they want, and it's our job to ensure that-- that that is ultimately achieved, so. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks to the Minister for that. So there is a problem, then, in that the regulations say that the length of term for CSFTNO is tied to the district education authorities, and now we've got one. We will have, if this bill passes, a length of term of office for the Hay River ones, for possibly Hay River commissionaires versus the Yellowknife commissionaires for CSFTNO. So how's this issue going to be fixed? And I'm curious to know why it wasn't discovered earlier. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. So I've spoken with the chair of the CSFTNO and informed him that there exists this issue and that we will reach out as soon as this bill is passed and begin work on amending those regulations. And I've been assured that from the time that those consultations with the CSFTNO are complete, and really the consultation is 'do you want to remain with your three-year term limit or do you want a four-year term limit?' Once we're done with that, within two weeks we can have new regulations drafted and likely enforced.

And the reason this wasn't discovered, well, I can take that one; that's on me. It is the Department of ECE and the Department of Justice's job to ensure that when we're putting forward regulations like-- or changes to acts like this that we fully consider every aspect, and this was overlooked. But-- and perhaps that if this was not discovered, it would have been overlooked for all eternity and elections would have gone forward as normal because it literally took the legendary tenacity of the Member along with a team of lawyers to really discover this. So it was-- it was something that we did overlook, and I take full responsibility. And I thank the Member for his contribution. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Well, I'm happy to take compliments. You know look, my objective here is not to embarrass or point fingers at anybody but given the-- how shall I put this? Litigious relationship in the past between CSFTNO and this government and the extraordinary efforts I recognize that the current Minister has undertaken to build a better working relationship with CSFTNO, my objective here is to make sure that we continue to build that relationship and that when we do these kinds of changes, it doesn't adversely affect the Francophone first language community rights holders and so on. And that's why I guess I'm tenacious about this, is I don't want this to end up in court again and I-- you know, look, full disclosure. Our kids went to Ecole Alain St. Cyr. I'm a quarter-French Canadian, my wife is a Francophone, and they're a vibrant part of our community and we just want to make sure that their rights under the Constitution are recognized and implemented fully. So I accept what the Minister said. I will hold his feet to the fire, though, in terms of getting this resolved quickly because CSFTNO does have elections scheduled this fall, and they would like to proceed with them.

And as the Minister said, basically the way they conduct their elections is a ballot box in the foyer of the schools. And the parents who are right holders under the Constitution can come in and cast their ballots right in the school. So it's different than what the school boards or the city, how they carry out their elections. But it's still democratic and all the rest so I think we want to make sure we work with them to get the solution that they want. I hear that from the Minister. And I'll hold his feet to the fire. Thanks, Madam Chair. I think that's all I've got to say. And I do support our school boards in Yellowknife getting their elections back in sync and in no way do I want this bill to be delayed. We owe it to them as well to fix this problem. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister, did you want to respond?

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. I appreciate the Member's comments.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Anything further? Questions? Comments? Does the committee agree that there are no further general comments? We can proceed to a clause by clause review of the bill. Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Please turn to page1 of the bill.

Clause 1, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Clause 2, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 3, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, to the bill as a whole, does committee agree that Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act is now ready for third reading?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act, is now really for third reading. Does the committee agree that this concludes the consideration of Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister, and thanks to our witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber?

Committee, we have agreed to consider tabled document 412-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures) Number 1, 2021-2022. Does the Minister of Finance have an opening remarks?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No, 1, 2021-2022. These supplementary estimates propose a total increase of $36.6 million comprised of the following major items:

  • First, $4.3 million for investments committed to as part of the 2021-22 main estimates process, including $600,000 to advance the Northwest Territories midwifery program into phase 2 of its implementation;
  • $1.4 million to support after-care and community-based addictions programs and services, comprised of $750,000 for a community-based addictions and after-care fund;
  • $150,000 to fund the senior advisor to support Indigenous knowledge and wellness coordination and $500,000 for additional community development activities;
  • $935,000 to support efforts towards reducing poverty in the Northwest Territories. This includes $750,000 to the anti-poverty fund, $110,000 to increase funding for the roundtable advisory council, and $75,000 to increase core funding to the Hay River shelter;
  • $743,000 to pilot a new approach to assisting with improving cultural safety and patient experience; supporting Indigenous patients in having their concerns, complaints, and questions resolved, and bridging cultural and language barriers;
  • $500,000 to increase the childcare infrastructure fund;
  • $100,000 to increase the Child and Family Services contribution.
  • These investments will be offset by a reduction of $4.03 million to departmental travel budgets.
  • Second: $14.8 million to support the Northwest Territories aviation sector. This funding request is partially offset by $12.5 million in revenues from the federal government.
  • Third: $5.7 million to provide short-term relief to the Northwest Territories tourism operators and accommodation providers, two sectors that have been significantly impacted by the economic disruptions resulting due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
  • Fourth: $5 million to support community governments, small businesses and NWT residents for costs incurred due to the 2021 flooding. And consistent with the Disaster Assistance Policy and previous practice, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs has established the Disaster Assistance Committee. This committee will establish a list of recoverable costs and the coordination of the recovery process. We do recognize that that process will take some time and in the interim the Departments of Finance and Municipal and Community Affairs will be working together on a process to ensure that there is advancement of some financial relief to residents.

That concludes my opening remarks, Madam Chair, and I would be happy to answer any questions that the Members might have.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Do you wish to bring witnesses into the House?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, please introduce your witnesses.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, on the right is Jamie Koe. He is ADM at the Department of Finance. And on the left is Terence Courtoreille. He is director at the Management Board Secretariat.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, and welcome back. I will now open the floor for general comments. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair; sometimes we all look alike. I want to start by thanking the Finance Minister for carrying through with a number of commitments she made as part of our budget negotiations on the main estimates back in the last sitting. So there's a number of new spending items in here to carry through with those commitments and that those are much appreciated, and I think they were mutually achieved by both sides of the House to-- on behalf of all the residents of the NWT.

One of the other areas, though, that they agreed upon was changes-- or reductions in travel expenditures. And I just want to confirm with the Minister that these reductions are to travel outside of the Northwest Territories for nonessential purposes. So if the Minister can maybe just talk a little bit about how the travel expenditures have been reduced across all departments, that would be helpful for, I think, the public to understand that. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I do appreciate the commitments that were made, I want to echo that, you know, that really was a consensus government approach was a very positive one for the people of the Northwest Territories. So I think the appreciation really does flow in both directions on all of those commitments.

Madam Chair, with respect to the travel reductions, this was not a simple process and it was not a simple calculation. It was done in a way where the departments came forward, did an analysis of all of their travel spending in order to understand what of the various travel budgets is in the category of discretionary as opposed to nondiscretionary. And, certainly, all of the travel that takes place takes place for the purposes of advancing the initiatives and efforts in programs and services of various departments. Some of that, though, of course, is to -- has transitioned to being more in line. Some of that is not going to be occurring because of various restrictions-- well, outside of the territories as well as in the territories over travel. And so what they looked as was to determine, indeed, what type of travel is critically and critically required, and generally that would, of course, be in the Northwest Territories as opposed to the discretionary and certainly non-Northwest Territories travel. So it wasn't a blanket 20 percent across all. It was 20 percent in the total budget but applied differently to different departments depending on the needs.

So there's some departments, for example Health and Social Services, their travel budgets might be not impacted the same way as, say ITI, because just of the nature of the travel that gets undertaken in the course of the year. But it was done, again, the focus was on ensuring that Northwest Territories travel and essential travel for the delivery of programs and services was maintained. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for FrameLake

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

No, thanks, Madam Chair. That's good to hear, and I think important for the public to understand that. And it's one of the reasons why we couldn't make the reductions in the main estimates themselves, because we wanted to make sure that this was done carefully and thoughtfully. So I think it's fair to say that there's going to be a some concerns or questions around some of the other items in the supplementary appropriation and we'll get to those items a little later this afternoon. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Are there any further general comments? Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think once we start opening up and going back to somewhat normal, you know, I do not want to discourage travel. I think that face to face and some of these contacts that could have been made during these past two years with our new Cabinet and Premier must take place, and along with the MLAs on this side. It's extremely important that contact is of great value to any government, and I don't want to lose sight of that when you start deducting all travel, okay. Because, I mean, there has to be some travel. You know, there's things that we expect the ITI Minister to go to. We expect the Education Minister to expand his horizons. If we're going to be doing these kind of things, we can't limit everything, okay. It's at the discretion of how the travel is going to be done. And I just want to make that comment because I'm not one to tie hands and do all these things because I'm one about vision, improving government face to face. You don't get the same thing on Zoom. I don't care how many times you go on Zoom, you don't get it. Just a comment. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, Madam Chair. I'm certainly somewhat Zoomed out myself. And I can say, you know, I do think, Madam Chair, that every department does still have a travel budget, and I appreciate the comments. There will be some business, I suspect FPTs, for example, the federal-provincial-territorial meetings that we often attend, where those may be slower to open up because there are so many different travel restrictions across Canada, whereas perhaps other areas of travel will be soon-- faster to open up. And I-- I can certainly say that I think every-- I think can probably safely speak for every colleague here that there's no replacing of face to face and if we need a reminder, the Zoom experience has probably taught us all that. But at the same time, there's more that can happen online as well. So we're going to be spending the next year, no doubt, seeing how that balance unfolds and then probably over the coming years as well. So there's still travel money in every department; it's just that it wasn't all-- it wasn't necessarily a blanket 20 percent. There really was effort to look at what is spent where and by -- and for what purpose. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.

MS. MARTSELOS; Well, Madam Chair, I just want to make sure that no hands are tied. You know, once we get to a new normal, it won't be the same as before, nothing's going to be the same, but I want to make sure that this government is able to operate in a very-- with a new vision of reaching out and making sure that they have the opportunity to learn and to see different things and do-- have that face to face contact, including not -- all Members in this Assembly. Restricting travel and think you're going to save a dime and in the end you end up spending more on something else is not okay. If you're going to move ahead in the economy and in business and in anything else, you have to be able to have that contact, you know. You should be able to just click of a -- and you know who to phone. I mean, some of them have it already, but that face to face is missing here. Some of my colleagues always talk about Zoom and all this other thing about online and stuff. I'm not with that. I get my job done by being face to face. I like to know the reactions. I like to know all those things. And it's very important in leadership. Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have any other comments.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, there are department staff watching these proceedings, and I think the comments will be well taken. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, it's always, like, interesting to be on this side and see how things function and one of the new things to me was, I think I mentioned last time, the negotiation that happens between Cabinet and the Regular Members. So I, too, want to thank the Minister for participating in that and actually I believe it went fairly smoothly from what I heard feedback on. And also just in that, I want to say 'thank you' to her specifically for the antipoverty funding money. Instead of bringing it up when we get to that section, I'll just speak to her right now.

It's really important to me that we see more money going into the hands of our NGOs. They are filling the gaps and services that we aren't able to provide as COVID changes our landscape. So for me, I think that it's always important because NGOs will always stretch their money more. And I know I'm saying things that, I see the Premier nodding and such, because this is their area, but, yeah, they'll always do more with their money than, I believe, the government will. So for me, I just really wanted to specifically speak and say thank you for the money for the antipoverty fund and so now we just have to work on the making sure that money gets out the door easily with as little red tape as possible. So, thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister, did you have any comments?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

For sure. That it is actually a good example of where I think numbers identify an area of issue and an area of concern. We're able to come up with some faith and trust in the department to look at and say what can we do to address your concern, and then there was this discussion. So these are all good examples of how that process can and should work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Any further questions, comments? I see no further general comments. Seeing no further general comments, we will review the supplementary estimates by department. The committee has agreed to forego general comments on each department. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document? Committee has agreed to begin the review with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Does committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?

Okay, we will begin with Department of Education, Culture and Employment on page 4.

Supplementary Estimates (Operating Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Culture Heritage and Language, not previously authorized, $27,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, early learning and childcare, not previously authorized, $451,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try and keep my comments brief considering we already agreed to this. I'm very happy to see the child care infrastructure fund. This is much needed money. I believe, though, we need something like $20 million to make up our infrastructure deficit to get to the required-to place where all our communities have child care. And I know the previous fund was oversubscribed. And I'm hoping we can get this money out the door very quickly, and I know the department will do that. I guess I'm just looking for-- I know some of the previous applications didn't quite meet the criteria or didn't necessarily get funding, and there's a very large demand in this area. I'm just looking for a commitment that we will reach out to those people who had previously applied for this fund and, you know, work with them to continue applications for the top-up here. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, I think that's a question for the Minister of Education.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister of EC and E.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. This money is long gone; it's out the door.

---Laughter

And there are discussions between, you know, our-- between ECE, people in the regions, people at headquarters and communities who are require infrastructure and so, you know, if a project wasn't successful for whatever reason, there are those conversations that have happened. So that work is definitely being done. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

No, I guess we'll just have to top it up again. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. All right, let's do this again.

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, early learning and childcare, not previously authorized, $451,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, not previously authorized, $2,744,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, labour development and advanced education, not previously authorized, negative $96,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, total department, not previously authorized, $3,126,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, we will now consider the Department of Environment and Natural Resources on page5.

Supplementary Estimate (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, main estimates, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, corporate management, not previously authorized, negative $44,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimate (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, environment protection and waste management, not previously authorized, negative $18,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you.

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No.1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, environment stewardship and climate change, not previously authorized, $939,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimate (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, forest management, not previously authorized, $1,328,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, water management and monitoring, not previously authorized, negative $39,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resource, wildlife and fish, not previously authorized, $163,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Oh, Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, one of the items here is $300,000 for the barrenground caribou calving survey. Given that it's June 3rd, I think this work might even be underway right now but I'd like to get some confirmation from the Minister about the status of this work. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, there's no way I would have let this one pass by without hearing from the Minister of ENR on this one, please.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of ENR.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON; Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. The work started Monday. The people are out there. We were able to work with the Hamlet of Coppermine, getting permission from the Nunavut government and their CPHO and the municipalities. So we have the workers out-- or the people out there surveying a herd presently. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for FrameLake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. That's great to hear because I know one of the reasons why it's here again is because the work couldn't be done last summer with COVID restrictions. So can the Minister tell us when the department expects to have the survey results available to us as MLAs and for the public? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of ENR.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. My understanding, with all the data and that, we're hoping to have it at the end of the summer but I will get back confirmation with that to committee. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for FrameLake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. And the reason why this is so important is the last time the survey was down, the herd-- or done, the herd was down to 8,200 animals compared to a high of almost 400,000. So this is a critical piece of information we need to make the best possible decisions about that area, including whether we should be building roads or not. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Oh, sorry. I didn't know if it was coming to me or. So, yeah, we'remaking sure that data is critical. That's why we were able to work with the Nunavut government and the hamlet of Coppermine to get the survey done, and it was probably unfortunate because COVID. You know, it hit us last year but we're able to start continuing to manage our survey, moving forward. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. So it's my understanding, just reading, yeah, that this is just the money being brought forward to pay for the project that didn't happen last year. However, because COVID has happened and we do have additional expense and such, do we anticipate that you can still do the-- that the department can still do the caribou survey for the same costing as they had originally budgeted, or do we think we'll have to come back later on for more money for this work? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

I have not been given any indication that this is going to be-- that the project scope or the budget needed to change. So for the time being, the project budget is the same.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. All right. Any further questions, comments? Seeing none, I'll call the page.

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, wildlife and fish, not previously authorized, $163,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Environment and Natural Resource, total department, not previously authorized, $2,329,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we will now consider the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs on page 7.

Supplementary Estimate, (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Cabinet support, not previously authorized, negative $45,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to make a comment that this is the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs almost having their travel budget, and when I look at the few million dollars we took out the GNWT travel budget and what it's paying for, you know, investments in mental health and wellness, investments in the poverty fund, I think this is a great work, and I think it was this Cabinet leading by example. And I know we've had no controversy about Ministers, MLAs, and senior management travelling, but I just commend this Cabinet. They made lots of sacrifices, and it hasn't been an easy year, and you didn't get to go to Vancouver or Calgary or Ottawa or all the other places that Ministers usually get a lot of flack for, so. This is by far the biggest proportional cut to any travel budget, executively anyway. That's all, thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

All right. Any further questions, comments?

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Cabinet support, not previously authorized, negative $45,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, directorate, not previously authorized, negative $105,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, executive council offices, not previously authorized, negative $313,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2848

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Indigenous and Intergovernmental Affairs, not previously authorized, negative $91,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, total department, not previously authorized, negative $554,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we will now consider the Department of Finance on page8.

Supplementary Estimates, No. 1, (Operation Expenditures) Department of Finance, directorate, not previously authorized, negative $133,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2848

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates, No. 1, (Operations Expenditures) 2021-2022, Department of Finance, human resources, not previously authorized, negative $116,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates, No. 1, (Operations Expenditures) 2021-2022, Department of Finance, information shared services, not previously authorized, negative $50,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2848

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, Department of Finance, management board secretariat, not previously authorized, $15,882,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for FrameLake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, there's a large item here, almost $15 million support for the NWT aviation industry. I understand most of this money comes from the federal government. But can someone explain to us how this money is allocated amongst various airlines that operate in the Northwest Territories. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, Madam Chair. I would be happy to provide that, and see if I have it. Madam Chair, I'm happy to read it out here if the purpose is to have that put on the record. The listing is fairly lengthy. So just to confirm, I'm happy to provide it to the House, or to table it, perhaps that might be more efficient, or I can read it out. Just to confirm, please.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for FrameLake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Rather than gobble up our valuable time, I'd rather have the Minister table it. But if someone could explain generally how the allocations are made, I think that's what I'm looking for. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Mr. Koe was the lead on this so I'll have him perhaps just describe the process that was used, please.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr.Koe.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Koe

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try not to get too accountant specific on my response here, but. Since this is the third round of the aviation funding, we've had some pretty good dialog with all the airlines. Actually it's been pretty transparent on both ends but we do ask for all their financial information from their revenue and expenditure projections, so -- their income statements, their cash flow statements and their balance sheets. So we have a good understanding of their entire organization and how they operate. From there, we specifically earmark some time to meet with each airline and go through all their financial statements and ask our questions to do our due diligence to fully understand-- to fully understand their operations and their pressures and how they're evolving as the pandemic as evolved.

From there, we do a calculation of what we call a gross margin approach. So just looking at kind of their revenues and their variable expenses and what we're looking at here is kind of just the cost to operate, the cost to operate the essential flights that they are undertaking within the Northwest Territories to ensure that supplies and patients and people can move around the territory.

So once we do that calculation, you know, we kind of apply that calculation to the overall funding that's available to come down to a breakdown of the funding for each airline. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for FrameLake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I notice that one of the stories on CBC today is that Air Canada used $10 million of this sort of funding to pay bonuses to its senior executives. Is any of this money that is being given, is it being used for the same sort of purposes here? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I saw that story too. When I saw it, I think the headline actually was that the airlines got a bit of a tongue-lashing from one of my federal colleagues if I might, so. And no, to be short, the contribution agreement that we have in place that is -- that has to be signed by the recipients who are -- the recipient airlines who are receiving this funding are not to be using that for the payment of any sort of bonuses or dividend payments. It is really meant to be provided solely to provide essential air services. There is a holdback provision in the contribution agreement as well so that they are expected to report back in to the Department of Finance so that the officials in the Department of Finance can review their financial information and, indeed, confirm that they have abided by all of what is in the contribution agreement. So, you know, this is our third go around. You know, I think the arrangements with the federal airlines are fairly different. This is our third go now. As Mr. Koe's indicated, there's a good relationship. They're certainly familiar with the information that they are receiving from the airlines, even if each one of them may structure their financial affairs differently. At this point, we've now had three times now gone through them, and three opportunities to review and be familiar with how it is that they are structuring their operations. So, you know, fairly able to look at the materials and I'm confident that indeed they are performing as they are expected to under the contribution agreements. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. That's good to hear, that the money's going to be used to actually maintain services rather than pay bonuses or shareholders. Can someone tell me what the compliance record is? Have there been instances where the contribution agreements have been not complied with? And I don't need to know names and I wouldn't expect that names would be revealed. But have there been any compliance problems with the contribution agreements and if so, what was the-- have they been resolved? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And Madam Chair, I just want to say I was flipping through the contribution agreement trying to find the specific section, but it-- just at the risk of repeating, it is quite clear that it is-- there is not to be any dividend payments, share buybacks, shareholder distributions, any management bonuses relevant to the term of the agreement. So, I mean, there is no lack of clarity that this funding is not meant to be for those purposes - board member salaries or parent corporations to a third party, etcetera. So it is quite clear.

I do not believe there have been any challenges in terms of any of the airlines meeting the requirements. Again, let me get that confirmation from Mr. Koe. I agree with the Member, this is important.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Koe.

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Koe

Thank you, Madam Chair. No, we haven't had any compliance issues to date. As I said, we do have a very open dialog with them. So if an airline thinks there's something that is close to the definition, they usually contact us and we have that conversation to whether it's allowable under the agreement or not. And, again, through that dialog, we have no -- or no compliance issues to date. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

MR. O'REILLY; Thanks, Madam Chair. It's my understanding that at least one of the airlines I'll name them Canadian North does receive financial assistance from other jurisdictions, possibly in Nunavut, possibly federal. How is that factored in to the calculations and their financial situation when we have to decide how we're going to allocate our funding as well? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so I think it is only Canadian North, if I'm not mistaken, that is of a size that it would be receiving funding from other jurisdictions. They have to report all of their receipts, all of their revenue sources to the Department of Finance. But, again, the funding that we are distributing to them, again, this a federally-- mainly a federal program. The amount that they get from the federal government is for the wage subsidy program. So it is not business relief. It is not relief to assist them in their maintaining of their operations of their fleet of, you know, the cost associated. Otherwise, it is really-- they're two separate things. They also do receive money from the Government of Nunavut which also, again, does get reported to us. But Nunavut is funding for their-- the flights and the routes and the scheduled flights that are within Nunavut, and we are funding for operations that are here in the Northwest Territories. So the information's available and it's factored into revenues, but, again, the funding that is given to those cases is meant to be directed to maintain scheduled services in our respective territories. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair, I appreciate that. I have one other area that I want to turn to, and it's one of my favorites - the Northwest Territories wage top-up program. So there's money in here. It looks like it's being offset by the Government of Canada. When is this program going to run out in the Northwest Territories, and what happens afterwards? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So again-- so the wage top-up program, you might recall, was originally when some essential workers, typically in the southern jurisdictions, were not necessarily returning to work and not making themselves available at their workplaces because of the risks associated at the time of COVID-19 and the option was to go on to the various relief programs. So this was an opportunity to try to encourage people to go back into those workplaces that were highly needed. Our wages, being what they are in the Northwest Territories, was such that-- and the fact that a lot of essential workers are government employees, we were able to top up everybody and bring everyone up to an $18 an hour rate. And, again, our wages being what they were, that money was simply not getting spent such that we continued to have funds available, and we have the ability-- Canada has allowed the Northwest Territories to be flexible in the application of the program. Right now, we are going to let the program go until August 31st, 2021, and if there's any additional funds required, we would be funding it from within the Department of Finance. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member.

MR. O'REILLY; Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I appreciate that, so August 31st. The problem is, of course, some people are going to see their wages go down the very next day, September1st, to our minimum wage which, if I remember, is $15.10 -- 25 cents. Anyways, they're going to see a substantial drop in their wages. I've identified this as a problem. We don't seem to have a high enough minimum wage here. We talked about guaranteed basic income but there doesn't seem to be a lot of appetite on the other side for this. So I just think this is unfair for workers when this program runs out, and we need to figure out a way to assist them and do something better. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister, do you have anything to add. Any further questions, comments? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. How much have we given Canadian North to date? And including this top up here. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, to date Canada North has received total contributions of $21 million and -- $21,372,000.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know Nunavut's number's somewhere about $40 million as well and just recently in the legislature, a couple of the MLAs said it was a missed opportunity not to take an equity stake given the amount of money they'd actually given the Air North by then. I know the Canadian government took six percent equity stake in Air Canada with part of their bailout. At any point, were there any conversations or did we consider taking an equity stake in Canadian North?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. No such conversations were had with me. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess, you know, the first couple bailouts, I get, when their main concern is insolvency and keeping these essential routes open. But we're getting to the point where the government is clearing propping up these airlines, and I think some larger conversations have to happen about whether we're just going to keep pouring money into them without getting a seat at the shareholder table. And that was very much the Minister of Finance federally's point in taking six percent of Air Canada as part of their bailout, to make sure that they're at the shareholder table and they have an input on continued operations and they get access to things such as when Air Canada, you know, pays all of its executives $10 million in bonuses. And I want to make sure that we have similar access and the department's doing its job with Canadian North. But I've heard the Minister here that there's a holdback and we will be diligent.

I guess my other area is with the Yukon travel bubble now emerging, Canadian North and Air North, the Yukon's airline code share route, Yellowknife to Whitehorse, has there been any talks in giving them this further millions of dollars to reinstate that route from Yellowknife to Whitehorse?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I know it's easy to lose sight of the fact that the vast bulk of the airline funding is coming from the federal government and I'm not sure they are prepared to fund us to take an equity stake in our local airline. And, again, the conversation hasn't been had, Madam Chair, to be quite clear.

As far as adding route, the funding that is being made available is to support the existing and really the essential services routes in terms of moving supplies and moving people within the territory and south. Right now, this is our only route to the south so all supplies, any travel, particularly medical travel, is reliant on this. A new route would certainly, you know-- I don't know what kind of analysis Canadian North would need to do to determine the costs of adding that new route. And I anticipate that for them to do that may well change the financial information that they are providing to us, which would then change the determination of what they would be entitled to under the approach we've taken with the entirety of the system. So as much as anyone else, I would love to get on an airline and go just about anywhere right now, I'm sure some conversations can be had about what that would look like and whether it would be possible but it certainly hasn't happened to date because to date, it was a matter of getting the funding to flow to maintain the routes that we have. You know, and-- I think it's easy to commit them to say that we can try and look into that between now and hopefully there's a -- I think there should be a fourth round of funding. We'll see how that unfolds with the federal government. And if that's the case, then before we get there, let's, you know, we can at least look into it at that point and see what that particular might be.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think, you know, there's probably some goodwill after you give the airlines millions of dollars to-- and I'm not asking for a new route, I'm asking for the return of the-- sorry, too many noise. The Air North and the Canada North code share route, Yellowknife to Whitehorse. And, you know, I've heard some rumors that if the travel bubble gets going, that they may be willing to do that themselves. So just a commitment that the Minister of Finance will reach out to those airlines about the possibility of that happening. I think it could be a win for us. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm happy to make that commitment. Again, I'm not sure if it will qualify as an essential route unless we can describe our mental health as an essential service to Whitehorse, Madam Chair. But there's certainly no harm in asking what it would entail to bring it back and if there's anything to be done, I'll bring it back to the House to let people know. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North, anything further? No? Okay.

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Finance, management board secretariat, not previously authorized, $15,882,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Finance, office of the Comptroller General, not previously authorized, negative $233,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2851

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Finance, total department, not previously authorized, $15,350,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, we will now consider the Department of Health and Social Services on page 9. It's a good page.

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $279,000. Does committee agree?

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Page 2852

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (operations expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Health and Social Services, health and social programs, not previously authorized, $4,548,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Yellowknife North.

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Page 2852

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. There's $100,000 to the Child and Family Services contribution here. I believe the word "contribution" clarifies this, but this is not-- you know, the $40million budget of Child and Family Services, this will be given to the Foster Family Coalition to support foster families through their contribution agreement, is that correct?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'm just very excited to see this $750,000 towards the antipoverty fund. I think we all support, you know, helping NGOs through this time and trying to, you know, ultimately end poverty in the Northwest Territories. But I know there's been some concerns in the past about the antipoverty fund doesn't necessarily address the systemic issues of poverty. Can I just get an update on-- I believe there's a review underway or whether there will be any changes to how we disburse the money under the antipoverty fund, seeing this $750,000 added. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, if I could direct this to the Minister of Health and Social Services, please.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister of Health and Social Services.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yeah, thank you. We're not talking about systemic level funding here. We're talking about band-aids. They're important but they are temporarily solutions primarily for food-related wants. To end poverty meaning adequate housing, food, and every other kind of indicator would require hundreds of millions of dollars. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Perhaps I'll save debate on the cost of ending poverty for another time. I just hope that the funds had some clear aims to be used for that.

There's $591,000 here for the phase 2 of the NWT's midwifery program. Can I just get a confirmation on when we expect those positions to actually be hired. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Health and Social Services.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, for that question. I do not have a time that I can relay to you. It is difficult to recruit midwifes and recruitment efforts will begin shortly but there's no guarantee that that will result in having someone here in a time that I can provide to you right now. I can just say we have the money, we're going to go and recruit. We recognize this is a difficult area to recruit in. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Any further questions, comments? Oh, Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want I guess clarification on the funding for the Hay River shelter. Can you confirm with us where-- there's two shelters there. There's a day shelter and a night shelter, and can I just confirm which one this is targeted? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2852

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Health and Social Services.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yeah, thank you, for that question. The answer is it's for the day shelter. The Health and Social Services department does not provide overnight shelter funding. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you Madam Chair. And that funding, is that going to be for our fiscal year? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Health and Social Services.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that's my understanding but I do know that we have subsequently received a proposal from the Soaring Eagle Friendship Centre around sheltering services. So that was the intention when this was negotiated in March, but things may change yet.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

It's confirmed to me that the 75,000 is expected to be in fact ongoing.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm just wondering if it was I guess for 12months, because you know, there's approximately 10 to 12 people, or maybe a few more, that use that day shelter. So that works out to about $17 per person per day. So thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I'll leave that as a comment. Any further questions, comments under the Health and Social Services programs? Okay. I'll call that one. Supplementary estimates (Operations expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Health and Social Services, long term and continuing care services, not previously authorized, $4,548,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we are going to take a short recess.

---Short recess

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I will call this meeting back to order. We are going to continue with under the Department of Health and Social Services. Okay. So we are at Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Health and Social Services, long term and continuing care services, not previously authorized, negative $13,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Health and Social Services, total department, not previously authorized, $4,814,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, we will now consider the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment on page 12.

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, corporate management, not previously authorized, negative $76,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $630,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 2853

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates No. 1, (Operations Expenditures), 2021-2022, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, minerals and petroleum resources, negative $296,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Operation Expenditures), No. 1, 2021-2022, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $5,622,000. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question is of the $5,700,000 in new tourism relief funding, is any of this federal money? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. No the two programs to support the tourism industry, these are both GNWT funded, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, if I might too -- I'm sorry to do this, but we'll need to just double check the numbers you read on the last one for the sake of the record. But I don't want to take the Member's time away on that, the 118.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay. We'll just finish this one, and we'll go back; how's that? All right, Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'll start with the one for licensed tourism operators, $2.5 million. I'm glad to see this. I think tourism bailout -- or assisting our tourism operators is much needed funding. And I'm glad to see the GNWT do this of their own initiative. I think to date, we've been waiting on a lot of federal programs and these are designed to kind of fill some of those gaps. So I'm going to vote in favour of the money. I just had some questions about how it is spent.

Of the $2.5 million for tourism operators, how much of that do we expect to go to northern tourism operators versus those who are based in the south? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, yes, so, you know, while we were in the past relying predominantly on federal programs, the benefit of that is that we were able to gather quite a bit of data around the number of operators who were accessing the funds -- the relief funds in the last year. There are operators in the Northwest Territories, about 70 percent that have been so far receiving relief funding. Operators located outside, about 30 percent or 17 operators. But that said, Madam Chair, I do want to highlight that although the operators sort of base their -- or owner might be located elsewhere, the cost and the funds are meant to be costs that are, you know, directed primarily for activities and facilities here within the Northwest Territories, so rent or mortgages here and facilities in the Northwest Territories. I know utilities here in the Northwest Territories, of that nature. So that, again, the intent is to have the primary focus being cost incurred within the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'm happy to hear that 70 percent of it will go to the northern tourism operators. I guess it's that remaining 30 percent, and there's a debate here. You know, NWT tourism, many of its members' operations are not based in the south -- or not based in the NWT, they're based in the south and they fly clients in, and I kinda get that the money can be spent here. But it doesn't always get circulated in the NWT economy, especially not in the way a northern tourism operator does. And when I look at, you know, a lot of the other ITI programs, they require you to be northern-owned companies. They require 50 percent ownership. There's a number of different ways you can make sure that the -- you know, there's some definition of "northern business". Why did we not do that for this program? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so -- sorry, and I was actually -- I apologize. I was actually looking for more detailed notes, really, from the ITI as the Member was raising the concern. And the reason I wanted to do that in hearing where the concern was going was to be able to provide the assurance around the structure of the program. You know, we had some helpful information back from the committee around how to ensure that this money is indeed circulating to the Northwest Territories, circulating to Northwest Territories residents and businesses and spending time here. The, you know, general approach to ITI programming isn't a residency approach but, in general, we do want to ensure that there are -- that the money is circulating in the Northwest Territories. So, for instance, here, there is a requirement that the applicant have a physical address here in the Northwest Territories, a Northwest Territories tourism operator licence, that they're registered here, if applicable, with the Business Corporations Act, that they are paying income tax here. And as I said, again, the -- you know, the direction discretionally is that it is meant to be, you know, money that is staying with the operations here in the territories and focusing on that. And so while the ownership might reside somewhere else, the purpose of the funding is to ensure that the tourism infrastructure and the tourism industry in the Northwest Territories stays healthy and stays diverse and stays vibrant, and that's really the goal here. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. I think it's much needed for a lot of our tourism operators who are facing another very uncertain year about whether they will have any tourism.

I want to move on to the support for tourism accommodation relief program, the STAR program, which is $3.2 million for hotels and accommodations. I guess I also have similar concerns for this in that the vast majority of hotel rooms in the NWT are in Yellowknife; the majority of those hotel rooms are owned by very large hotel chains who, you know, certainly do not reside -- or not owned by Northerners. And I guess this is just another one of those funds that I -- do we have a sense of how much of this would go to northern-owned businesses as opposed to southern-owned businesses? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So again, Madam Chair, in this case, you know, again I can certainly provide a breakdown of the totality of the accommodation sector in the Northwest Territories because, again -- because there have been various relief programs operating, and we had good cooperation from our federal partners who are administering a lot of those, we have the information around what the sector looks like. And what I can say is that they've looked really, again, at the rooms available and the reduction in the capacity that's been filled over the last year, and this subsidy is meant to help all of the accommodation providers that are in the Northwest Territories keep those rooms available at a break-even point. So the system has been designed -- or the STAR has been designed such that it's a contribution to bring them up to a point of breaking even with their fixed costs here so that these facilities, these accommodation facilities in the tourism industry, are ready and available and still open and alive when the time comes to start to receive hopefully more tourism, firstly by staycations ideally, but realistically looking at when the restrictions start to take into consideration and continue to ease. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess just stepping back, a number of jurisdictions have provided rebates for staycations where if you go on, you know, a staycation in the territory, you send in your receipts and the government gives you a 20 percent or some percent rebate. And the reason I like this model is it encourages tourism within the territory; it encourages, you know, some competition to still remain in the market so that we're not just subsidizing people who have essentially shuttered their doors to a break-even point. It allows operators to actually exist with some revenue. And I guess my preference would be that of, you know, the $5.7 million of our own money, we would have distributed it in that way that actually caused people to, you know, go experience tourism operators. Can I just get a sense of whether the department has considered that model? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that certainly was considered and it may well have been considered after the suggestion I think might have been made by some of the Members in the House. You know, I would point out a couple of things. One -- and it was considered as -- within the Department of Finance as well as the Department of ITI to really look at what kind of bang we can get for our buck. I certainly want to encourage staycations. I know that some of the chambers are undertaking initiatives to promote staycations and promote local spending. They did that last year, and I think quite successfully. And certainly had some support from the government to do that.

With respect, though, to ensuring that this sector itself stays alive, we ultimately made the decision that getting funds that continue to provide the relief amounts so that they could hit the break-even point or maintain their mixed cost was the better way of ensuring the goal which was to keep the sector afloat. And while, because again, certainly staycations helped last year, that alone would not keep the sector afloat. So that they are going to need some direct infusions of dollars at the same time trying to encourage staycationing through marketing and through other -- you know, again some initiatives that the chamber -- around awards, et cetera.

The one other thing I would note for folks to remember is the federal government -- you know, it didn't get a lot of fanfare but they certainly did change some of the tax rules for northern travel and staycations do qualify. So for everyone who was, you know, very disappointed not to be able to maximize their tax deductions under the travel, you know, that is now available so, please, take your staycations. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I think we've got a document problem in you're reading numbers from the tabled document but Members are working from a different. There's a couple of travel figures that seem to have been flipped.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Maybe we'll take a short recess and we'll just kind of look at what we need to fix here.

---Short recess

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. And we are -- I'm going to give it to the Minister of Finance.