Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, committee wishes to deal with Bill 53, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act and Tabled Document 723-19(2), 2023-2024 Capital Estimates, Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the first item.

---SHORT RECESS

I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we've agreed to consider Bill 53, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act. I will ask the Minister of Finance to introduce the bill.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm here to introduce Bill 53, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act. This bill proposes four administrative amendments to the Liquor Act that would benefit from immediate attention.

• First, updating personal importation limits to increase the quantities of liquor that a person may bring with them into the Northwest Territories;.
• Second, removing enforcement as part of the Northwest Territories Liquor Licensing Board's role due to potential conflict of interest;
• Third, removing the ban on licensed applicants who have been charged with but not convicted of a criminal offence, which is necessary for consistency with the legal principle of innocent until proven guilty; and
• Fourth, officially updating the name of the Northwest Territories Liquor Commission to include cannabis.

The legislative amendments proposed in Bill 53, as well as the more other significant changes that the department is working towards through the holistic liquor legislative review, will ultimately support liquor legislation in the Northwest Territories becoming more nimble, modern, streamlined, and responsive to the needs of residents. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

Yes.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses.

Thank you, Madam Chair. On my left is Billy MacKay, the deputy Minister of Finance. And on my right is Stephen Flanagan. He is the drafter from legal division.

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 53. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Bill 53, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act, received second reading in the Assembly on May 31st, 2022, and was referred to the Standing Committee on Government Operations for a review on October 7th, 2022.

Committee held a public hearing with the Minister of Finance and completed its clause-by-clause review of the bill. Committee received no submissions on this bill.

I thank committee for their efforts in reviewing this legislation. I have no comments at this time, but individual Members may have additional questions or comments. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Committee, are there further questions, comments? Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Minister referenced in her opening remarks that the department is working towards phase 2 of this act, and I'm wondering if the Minister can provide a commitment as to when we will see the bill brought forward on the floor of this House for phase 2. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not in a position to give a specific time at this stage. I am live to comments from committee regarding their interest in the larger piece of this, and I have certainly been working in the last little while with the department towards being in a position to give a more specific timeline. It is certainly my expectation that we will still see the completion of the larger act within the life of this government. But, again, I'm just at a stage of being able to confirm that hopefully before the end of this sitting. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions, comments?

Is the committee agreed that there are no further general comments?

Can we proceed to a clause by clause review of the bill?

Okay. Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Please turn to page 1 of the bill.

Clause 1, does committee agree?

---Clauses 1 through 9 inclusive approved

Committee, to the bill as a whole, does the committee agree that Bill 53, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act is now ready for third reading?

Thank you, committee. Does the committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 53, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act?

Thank you. Thank you, Minister, and thank you to your witnesses. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 723-19(2), Capital Estimates 2023-2024. We will now consider the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Does the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

Yes, I do.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses.

To my left I have deputy minister John MacDonald, and to my right is assistant deputy minister of corporate services Sam Shannon.

Welcome. Committee has agreed to forego general comments. Is the committee agreed to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?

Committee, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment begins on page 17. And we will defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary, beginning at page 19, with junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services with information on page 20.

Education, Culture and Employment, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, infrastructure investment, $5,623,000. Is there any questions? Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So I recall last capital budget we passed these three portables for Colville Lake, and the intention there was that was going to act as their school while it was completed. But I see now there's been a change here where Colville Lake School has been changed from being built to a planning designation. Can I just get a bit of an update of what the current plan is or what's going on with the Colville Lake School? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the Member mentioned two projects in this capital plan. Colville Lake School planning and Colville Lake School three portables. The three portables are in the process of being constructed. They will be on the winter road in the new year, and they will be set up and ready for school in the upcoming school year. The school itself is still in the planning phase. As the Members are aware, we have adjusted how we budget for capital and so we are only budgeting for the planning phase, which is what we actually expect to spend. We're not budgeting for, you know, builds that we're not going to do. So we've been working with the band in Colville Lake. They wanted to take the lead on this project so we have provided them with funding to do the work that the department would normally do in the lead up to the development of an infrastructure project. And so they are doing that work. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I recall, you know, I don't recall what is public or not, but at one point there was some back and forth with the community because they perhaps had much larger intentions of what this school would be, you know, including perhaps some community-based infrastructure in it. Yeah, I'm just hoping if I can get a bit more of an update on how that work is going with Colville Lake and whether, you know, this is going to be the kind of super-school that it was initially planned as or whether this is going to be just a school that is in compliance with our current kind of infrastructure guidelines. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you. So what we've asked is for the band to put together a proposal for a school according to the capital standards, Education, Culture and Employment's capital standards on school projects. And then, as well, a plan for anything additional that they would like so that we have sort of a base model to go off of and then we can look at additional things that usually aren't in schools and figure out if there's ways to find funding to make that happen. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And can the Minister just remind me where child care spaces have landed in this debate? I know we have new capital standards, and I believe there was some intention when communities wanted to put child care spaces directly in schools. Yeah, I guess more generally speaking, is that now our goal, or is that kind of dependent on the individual school? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. So the new capital standards, which were approved in 2020, include provisions for child care spaces in a school facility if the spaces are warranted. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any further questions, comments? Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With the number of schools there that -- you know, that's within the department and some of the work that I see happening, one of the concerns I always have is barrier-free access in our designs and whether -- you know, whether all schools, even if they're aged, you know, if they're, you know, being retrofitted to ensure that we have barrier-free access for all children and employees. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. And the way this planning for capital works is that the department gathers up all of the different wants from the different school boards as well as information about the state of all the different capital assets from the Department of Infrastructure, and then we make assessments as to what can be done with a budget. And we sometimes have enough for a new school or a retrofit as well as a few -- a couple small capital projects. And the things the Member's referencing - accessibility, ensuring older schools are accessible - those are my priority for when I look at the smaller capital projects that we can advance. And I would have to -- I think it's probably the department's as well. I think we might have been on the same page when I first got into this portfolio. But, yes, I do prioritize those when looking at what projects to advance. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, the other thing, you know, when I think of schools, you know, I think of, you know, a healthy learning environment; I think of, you know, healthy children and, you know, that improves learning capability, you know -- yeah, improves learning, I guess, for children and, you know, it allows them maybe to be role models and mentors for others what may, you know, be kind of on the border of, you know, not sure, you know, what life's all about. But, you know, so one of the things that, you know, I hear sometimes in some of the communities is that lack of, you know, whether it's gymnasiums or places where children can gather and sports and that type of thing. So when we're looking at, you know, major -- major projects like this, do we somehow look at ensuring that gymnasiums are included or would be included? Because it does impact health; it does impact learning. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. So under the previous capital standards, gyms were included once a school hits a certain number of students. If the school did not have that base number of -- or that number of students, then there would be no gym, and the gym that the school would get once they hit that number of students was small and it would gradually get bigger as the population got bigger. What we've done with the new capital standards is included gyms in all schools and increased the sizes according to the enrolment. So I know there are some schools with very, very small gyms, and we won't be seeing those anymore. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have no further questions.

Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. While we're talking about capital standards and accessibility, tomorrow night is the grand opening of a new school in Yellowknife, Itl'o' School, and they did a beautiful job on incorporating gender neutral washrooms in the school and so I'm wondering if that is a component of capital standards going forward. Thank you

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Yes, that is covered in the new capital standards as well as when we do retrofits. So when we go in -- say a bathroom is in need of repair and we repair it, we also use that lens as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

Excellent. Thank you very much for that, Madam Chair. I think that's very important, and I'm happy to hear that the department has incorporated that.

My next question is in regards to Mangilaluk School, which is a major project up in the Beaufort Delta, and it says that the estimated completion date is 2023-2024. And so is it September of 2024 that is anticipated that students will first start school in that new school? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So that's good to hear, and I know that I've heard from people in Tuktoyaktuk that are very excited for that opening as I know that my colleague from Nunakput is as well. Given that that project was originally awarded long before the pandemic and long before inflation and the rest of it, has there been significant budgetary changes to that project? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

I'd like to hand that to the assistant deputy minister, Mr. Shannon. Thank you.

Thank you. ADM Shannon.

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So just so that I understand so there was scope reductions and revisions to the design made in order to keep it on budget, or has there been a budgetary change to this project? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. There's been no change to the budget. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm wondering within scope reductions is there anything in addition to things like changes from steel to wood for trusses, was there actual changes or loss to the community of what they will be receiving within the envelope of that school? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. Perhaps for some detail on that, I can hand it to Mr. Shannon.

ADM Shannon.

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And thank you to the ECE staff and Minister for that.

As far as Chief Jimmy Bruneau School and Colville Lake school, which are both in planning phases, when can we expect to see the transition from planning phase to building phase within the capital acquisition plan? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. So we're approaching these projects in a much different way than has been done traditionally. And we're not even approaching them each the same; they're each different in their own ways. And that answer really depends upon our partners, so the Tlicho government and the band in Colville Lake so I don't have an answer. We are trying this new way of doing things, and it's going to take longer than it normally would, and it normally takes quite a while to get a school off the ground and built and opened. So unfortunately I don't have a solid date. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

Caitlin just asked too, so. Well, it is good that, you know, CJBS working group and technical working group is created that consists of ECE, Infrastructure, and the Tlicho government, and TCSA. So I was going to ask about the completion date, when, you know, within -- you know, when is it going to be completed this planning stage, like, within this -- because it's noted in the book 2023-2024 but I just wanted to know when, and I think you said that you're working with the partner on this as well, so. But there's no timelines? Do you have a timeline of when this planning stage will be completed and then move on to the next stage?

Thank you Minister of ECE.

Thank you so right now it's 2023-2024 is the estimated completion but I would not -- I wouldn't place bets on that. I think it's a very fluid situation and, like I said, it's new to everyone, us as well as, and in this case the Tlicho government. So we are taking the time we need to do it right so I don't have a solid answer. Thank you

Member for Monfwi.

Although -- well, it is disappointing, you know, that $40 million is being removed from the -- you know, removed from the capital budget. It would have been nice if that $40 million was left alone and, you know, look at it as a down payment, you know, left it as a down payment for replacement costs, for a replacement then rather than a retrofit. It would have been nice just left it alone because there's no guarantee that, you know, we will be building the school anytime soon. It's going to -- you know, the planning stage can take five years. So, you know, don't know the -- you don't know the timelines too as well.

So, yeah, it would have been nice because the school is very important for our Tlicho youth and, like we've said before, I said it and Tlicho government has said it before, the school is 50 years old. It is old, and it was built by the federal government of the day without consulting the people. And for 50 years, the young people have been -- you know, like, have been going from Behchoko to Edzo school, and it takes at least roughly about an hour to get from Behchoko. You know, the return trip is, like, roughly about an hour, you know, to be on the road, especially on the main highway coming from that junction to Edzo, it's Highway 3, part of Highway 3, and it's the main route. It's a very busy route. And attendance -- so what we've seen in the past too is that when the student miss the bus what they've done in the past is that they go -- they hitchhike on the highway from Behchoko, you know, and when the school was going through the retrofit, same thing; students were hitchhiking from Edzo to Behchoko as well, you know. And it goes both ways. So it's really a disadvantage for our young people. So that's why the school is very important for our youth, Tlicho youth, and that's why I really support the Tlicho government on building a new school in our community in Behchoko.

It's not just that one alone too. There's a Whati School as well but I see that there's no project in there -- it was in here. But that one I will, you know, talk to you more about it after. But it's just CJBS $40 million is a lot of money, and it would have been nice just to left it in there as a -- you know, as a down payment.

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And so of course we can't speak to any particular numbers, but I'm not sure who we would make a down payment to. We don't even have land identified for a school yet so we are a ways off. But I wish the federal government would have built a school in Behchoko as well. It would have made this process a lot easier. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Monfwi.

Well, the Infrastructure said it before when they -- they successfully found money to build, you know, to complete -- to build the Frank Channel Bridge because they were short, and they successfully found the money. So the $40 million would have been -- like, if it was left alone as a down payment, then they could have lobbied the government to give extra money because I know that school is not -- it's going to be more than $40 million to build. And then from what I heard from some of the leaders is that it's like a super-school that we're talking about. So, yeah, it would have been nice so if they left it at that and we could have build on it. And it's just that Tlicho or Behchoko is the only one -- of all the school in the Northwest Territories, Behchoko is the only one that was told -- or Tlicho government were told to go find your own money -- to find the money to build the school yourself, you know. I mean that's the message that we basically heard, is that go find the extra money. But it is okay, though, that, you know -- I mean, they're doing that planning stage. They're doing BIP. They created the working group and a technical working group, so which was greatly needed. But it's just that it moved from that capital -- from the capital project to the planning. So we're going back again. But if it was left -- that $40 million was left, it would have been good for us to build on it.

So now I'm just wondering so -- because the school is 50 years old; you know, like it's old. So if any of the infrastructure fails, so is the Minister prepared to deal with all these -- this 500 students because if anything happened to the school, so where we going to school these young people? Like, there's about 500 students that are registered in Chief Jimmy Bruneau School in Edzo. So what are we going to do with them if a major -- if the infrastructure fails? Do you have a plan? Does the Minister have a plan in place? Like, I don't know. Thank you

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the federal government does not fund schools. Bridges are one thing, schools are another. There's a division of power in Canada under the Constitution, and the federal government does not want to get into funding schools, which is generally provincial/territorial area. And so the Tlicho government informed us that they would like to take the lead on approaching the federal government to find funding. I never told them to go find it themselves.

And in terms of what would happen if there was a failure at the school, we don't wait until schools are, you know, about to collapse before we start this process. We start this process well in advance and so that we don't run into situations like the Member's talking about. Thank you

Thank you, Minister. Member for Monfwi.

Yeah, thank you yeah, well, like I said, the school is old. Like, something's going to fail. If something failed, like, do you have money in place -- like, $2 million, that's for the planning stage, that's what it was. I don't know if it's changed, but -- so if anything happened to the school -- like, I mean, anything can happen, you know, because it is an old school and it's been there, like, since 1972; it's 50 years old. And it's been through quite a few retrofit before that I am aware of. So if anything happens, like, you know, we don't know. Like, so I'm just asking the Minister, like, are they prepared? Is the -- like, if there was some money left in there for, like to deal with, like, major infrastructure failing would have been nice so that we have a plan in place, we know what to do. If not, is the Minister going to, you know, like transport our students every day from Behchoko to Yellowknife? I guess Yellowknife couldn't even take our kids in. Like, I mean, that's like 500 kids that we're talking about, so. That's why I'm just asking that. It would be nice if there was another plan in place, like, just in case because we don't know when this project is going to be completed. The planning stage, it says estimate -- estimated completion date is 2023-2024, and after that it's the building stage and all that. So I'm just wondering if there's any plan in place. So it would have been nice if there was some money left in the retrofit budget for our capital budget. Thank you

Thank you Minister of ECE.

Thank you so the Member's raising some very interesting and different budgeting proposals, and I think that's more of a conversation to have with the Minister of Finance. We budget for projects that we intend to complete. And there are funds -- in case of a school, if there is a boiler that explodes in school, it's not like there's no money listed in here that -- so that means we'll just never fix it. We deal with issues as they arise. We perform maintenance. The school is old, but there have been retrofits. There's regular maintenance. So I don't want anyone here to leave thinking that the school is about to collapse and be uninhabitable. Thank you

Thank you, Minister. Final --

Well, I was going to ask the Minister will the Minister commit to building a new CJBS in Behchoko part of the capital plan 100 percent supported by GNWT?

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

No. Thank you

Thank you are there any further questions? Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I want to acknowledge that, you know, I'm probably one of the biggest supporters of education, always was, always will be. Education is extremely important not only to young people but to everyone, including adults. And one of the things I wanted to talk about, first of all, was at the recent Council of Leaders meeting, the Indigenous leaders council meeting, one of my friends there that I've sat with for 14 years, and that was the chief of Colville Lake, and him and I used to sit around and have chats during those 14 years that I've sat around the table with him. And a gym should be compulsory for any small community, because not everybody gets to have that and it shouldn't be on how many people you have in a school. It's a necessity for mental health, for fitness, for everything else. And he always talked about that, and I would really appreciate if the Minister considers some of those things for a small community like that, because it's really important for their well-being. And you know, and I respect that chief very very much because he's a down to earth, very honest, and a very sincere leader. And so I just felt obligated that I have to speak on his behalf.

And the other thing I want to talk about is if we're talking about ages of schools, I just want to make sure that somewhere in the future, I don't expect it today, because there are several buildings that have to be changed in Fort Smith, and we have two federal day schools still standing. And on my school -- our both schools are 64 years old and 66 years old, the two oldest schools in the territories. And I am sure Hay River's not too far behind, okay, because I remember the -- you know, in that area of when the schools were built. So I'm not saying today, but I want to make sure that in the future that we plan -- and we don't expect two schools in one year or anything like that, but I want to put the department on notice that those are old schools. And they are federal day schools that were connected to the residential schools that were served there. And I appreciate that things take time, and I know the budget process here, but I just want to make sure that it will be on the radar sooner than later. And I don't have any other questions. I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I don't expect the Minister to answer those questions today. Thank you

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. All right. So if there are no further Members to speak to this section, Education, Culture and Employment, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, infrastructure investment, $5,623,000. Does committee agree?

Committee, please turn to page 21, labour development and advanced education, with information items on page 22.

Education, Culture and Employment, labour development and advanced education, infrastructure investment, $3,500,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We don't talk about the Inuvik Campus much so I'll ask a question or two. Firstly, can the Minister remind me how much federal money is in the Western Arctic Research Centre warehouse replacement here? Thank you

Thank you Minister of ECE.

Thank you there's money from a number of sources so I will hand it to Mr. Shannon to discuss that. Thank you

Thank you ADM Shannon.

Thank you Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess, I believe this building is already under construction as we speak. Can I just -- are we on track? When do we expect it to be complete? Thank you

Thank you Minister of ECE.