This is page numbers 3523 - 3558 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Members Present

Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Mr. Edjericon, Hon. Julie Green, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Nokleby, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Semmler, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Mr. Rocky Simpson, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek. Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong

The House met at 10:03 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 3523

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Ministers' statements. Honourable Premier.

Minister's Statement 206-19(2): Statement on the Situation in Ukraine
Ministers' Statements

Page 3523

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the world was thrust into uncertainty and turmoil as Russia launched an attack and subsequent invasion of Ukraine.

The Northwest Territories stands with Ukraine. The images coming out of the Eastern European nation are horrifying. My heart goes out to those who are forced to flee their homes to find safety, and to those who have lost their lives in a senseless act of aggression by Russia.

Canada has a long history of immigration from Ukraine. Today, Canada is the home to more than 1.3 million people of Ukrainian descent, including more than 1,000 in the Northwest Territories. My thoughts are with you during this difficult time.

To support humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, the Government of the Northwest Territories will match donations of NWT residents to the Canadian Red Cross up to a total of $50,000. This will also help to support Ukrainians displaced by the Russian invasion.

As Russia's alarming and aggressive actions are discussed among First Ministers and Canada considers how to best support the people of Ukraine, I will support Canada's immediate application of severe sanctions. I will also be inviting further conversations with Canada to consider the needs of our Arctic in response to Russia.

Mr. Speaker, history clearly shows we cannot turn a blind eye to international aggression. Although our voice may be small, we stand in support with the people of Ukraine. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 206-19(2): Statement on the Situation in Ukraine
Ministers' Statements

Page 3523

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Minister's Statement 207-19(2): Housing Partnerships
Ministers' Statements

Page 3523

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, partnership is a theme I have spoken about many times since becoming the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. The reason for this is simple: The most effective way to address the housing crisis in the Northwest Territories is by working in partnership with Indigenous governments, community governments, non-governmental organizations, and the Government of Canada.

By working together to offer home repair programs, community housing plans, investment in new housing units and support for individuals at risk of homelessness, we can make meaningful progress towards achieving our shared housing goals in the territory. Mr. Speaker, the Housing Corporation has had many recent successes as a result of our strong partnerships. One example in the Northwest Territories is the community housing support programs, which empowers communities to determine their own priorities and help them develop local appropriate programs to make home repairs a reality. Communities and Indigenous governments we have worked with include Kat'lodeeche First Nation, K'asho Got'yne Housing Society, Denyinu Kue First Nation, and the Tlicho government.

Another way the Housing Corporation partners with communities is through the development of community housing plans. We work closely with communities to collect information and feedback on their housing concerns and priorities. Wherever possible, a community member is hired to help facilitate this process and ensure that local priorities are first and foremost in the plan.

At present, the Housing Corporation has met with 24 different communities and is well on the way to developing many of these plans. Recent plans have been adopted in the hamlet of Enterprise and the hamlet of Paulatuk.

Mr. Speaker, working in partnership also extends to the Housing Corporation's action to address homelessness in communities outside of Yellowknife through the northern pathways housing program. This is a supportive housing program for single adults currently operating in Behchoko in partnership with the friendship centre; Fort Simpson in partnership with the Liidlii Kue First Nation; in Aklavik in partnership with the Aklavik Indian Band; and in Fort Good Hope in partnership with the K'asho Got'yne Housing Society. Northern Pathways to Housing works with partners to provide wraparound supports to stabilize housing for clients.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to all the great work done with our NWT partners, the Government of Canada is also a key partner in addressing the housing needs of the Northwest Territories.

Recently, the Housing Corporation has partnered with the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to invest just over $9 million for the renovation of 50 units at the Borealis Co-op here in Yellowknife.

The GNWT also partnered with CMHC with the construction of a new building for the Hay River Family Support Centre. Once completed, this new building will provide 14 beds for that shelter.

Working in partnership is truly the most effective way to address the housing needs in the Northwest Territories. While all of the partnerships I have spoken of are important successes, there is still a great deal of work to be done. We will continue to actively engage the Government of Canada and other stakeholders on the territorial housing needs.

We are confident that with the support and partnership of the federal government, Indigenous governments, and organizations, community governments, and other stakeholders, will help make housing in communities across the NWT more affordable and more accessible for the residents who need it most. I also want to thank the staff of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and our local housing authorities for helping us engage at the community level and in the larger centre. Mahsi for your work, Housing Corporation. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 207-19(2): Housing Partnerships
Ministers' Statements

Page 3523

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Minister's Statement 208-19(2): Supporting Sustainable Livelihoods
Ministers' Statements

Page 3523

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, traditional lifestyles are a very important part of the social, cultural, and economic fibre of communities in the Northwest Territories. Traditional livelihoods help to keep cultures strong and maintain on-the-land practices. This supports food security, provides valuable opportunities for individuals to earn an income and support a strong traditional economy across the territory. Support for a sustainable livelihood is a high priority for our government, and today I would like to highlight some of the investments and achievements that we are very proud of.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Environment and Natural Resources has expanded its programs this year to strengthen existing programs for people to access on-the-land activities and continue traditional practices.

ENR has worked closely with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to adapt the existing hunter's education program, which is now being offered for-credit program in the high schools. This program, developed in partnership with Indigenous governments, Indigenous organizations, and respected harvesters, puts safety and respect at the center of the training offered to new young harvesters. Current high school students who will be the next generation of harvesters will take the new course this winter as part of the pilot program in nine schools across the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, we know the support for culture is also important for healing. ENR has worked with the Department of Justice to develop a trapper training program that we will deliver to inmates at the North Slave Correction Centre. This training will help participants learn about trapping regulations, the genuine Mackenzie Valley fur program, how to set traps and prepare pelts, as well as a variety of on the land and survival skills. This is not only an opportunity to reconnect with traditional lifestyles but also develop a practical skills that participants can use upon returning to their community. While roll-out of this program was delayed due to COVID-19, we look forward to the beginning to offer this new program soon.

Mr. Speaker, we have also continued to help families get on the land through many new and existing programs.

In January, ENR provided almost $180,000 for 17 projects under the second intake of Take a Family on the Land program. This funding will support 17 organizations to help folks get out on the land with whomever they consider family.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT also continues to support the NWT On the Land Collaborative which brings together government, charitable, corporate, and other partners to provide financial support for projects across the NWT that promote traditional on-the-land skills building. In 2022, the NWT On the Land Collaborative will invest nearly $1 million to 54 projects across all the regions of the NWT. I would like to acknowledge that the NWT On the Land Collaborative was recognized by the Canadian Parks and Recreation Association with a partnership award for their innovative work. Our government congratulates all the partners in the On the Land Collaborative for the outstanding work they do each year and for the well-deserved award.

Mr. Speaker, while we are proud of the programs offered by ENR, we recognize the importance of reviewing them regularly to make sure they continue to effectively support on-the-land activities.

To that end, we recently engaged with hunters, trappers, and other harvesters across the NWT about the long-standing Community Harvesters Assistance Program. We received valuable input on what is working well and about areas in which the program can be improved. A "what we heard" report with eight recommendations for improvement was shared with the public in January 2022. The intent was to seek additional public input to make sure we got it right. ENR is currently working to update some elements of the program and will use the input provided to continue that work.

Mr. Speaker, these investments are intended to support local harvesters, families, and leaders and continue to encourage sustainable livelihoods. I'd like to recognize the tremendous important role of elders, knowledge-holders, and Indigenous governments and Indigenous organizations as they work to develop traditional activities and lifestyles. Our government will continue to provide support as part of our efforts to bolster the traditional economy, create employment opportunities in small communities, and increase food security for Northwest Territories' residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 208-19(2): Supporting Sustainable Livelihoods
Ministers' Statements

Page 3524

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Honourable Premier.

Minister's Statement 209-19(2): Ministers Absent from the House
Ministers' Statements

Page 3524

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise the House that the Honourable Diane Archie will be absent from the House today's proceedings to participate in a conference call with federal, provincial and territorial Ministers of transportation and highway safety.

Also Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise the House that the Honourable R.J. Simpson will be absent from the House for a portion of today's proceedings to participate in a conference call with the federal, provincial, territorial Ministers of labour.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 209-19(2): Ministers Absent from the House
Ministers' Statements

Page 3524

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Member for Thebacha.

Member's Statement 945-19(2): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project
Members' Statements

Page 3524

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In relation to my statement on Monday and throughout most of this week about economic recovery in the NWT, I would once again like to discuss the importance of the Taltson Hydro Expansion.

Mr. Speaker, all major infrastructure projects both currently underway, along with those in the future which I spoke about this week, are all interrelated with this hydro expansion. The Minister of Finance even said so herself the other day during question period. She said that to attract greater economic opportunities and investments into the Northwest Territories, our territory will need greater access to clean and affordable energy.

Well, that is exactly what this project will bring. We're not reinventing the wheel with this here. I mean the Talston Dam already exists. All we need to do is to add to it its increase in energy output.

Mr. Speaker, the construction of the Taltson Expansion would address at least two out of the 22 priorities of the 19th Assembly. The priorities include:

  1. Reduce the cost of power and increase the use the alternative and renewable energy; and
  2. Make strategic infrastructure investments that connect communities, expand the economy, or reduce the cost of living, including the Mackenzie Valley Highway, the Slave Geological Corridor, and the Taltson Hydro Project.

Mr. Speaker, it is baffling that some Members of this House who are proponents of renewable energy are concurrently against this project's advancement and completion. We know that hydro power is a renewable energy as there are no greenhouse gas emissions that are emitted with this form of energy. We also know that our modern industrial economy is ever changing. We are increasingly becoming a more digital and information-based and technology-driven global economy.

For these reasons we need to better our economy for the future, and I'm convinced that the projects like the Taltson Hydro Expansion will be central in strengthening the NWT economy for the future generations. Mr. Speaker, I speak unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken several times about the importance of this project. I even visited the Taltson Hydro worksite last year with the Minister of Infrastructure. This expansion project is a no-brainer and will help bring greater economic growth to the NWT by the way of cheaper electricity and renewable energy. This project will also help business in the NWT to be more feasible and cost friendly.

Mr. Speaker, despite most of our attention being given to the COVID-19 pandemic over the last two years, I certainly hope that we have not fallen behind or given up pursuing the Taltson Expansion. There's a positive business case for this project, and I'm willing to see it advance and supported by the government wholeheartedly. I will have questions for the Minister of ITI later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 945-19(2): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project
Members' Statements

Page 3524

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Members' statements. Member for Great Slave.

Member's Statement 946-19(2): Airships
Members' Statements

Page 3524

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Fridays I tend to like to keep my statements light so today I'm going to speak about airships, also known as blimps, dirigibles, or zeppelins, but of course they are not made from lead.

Airships or aerostats are aircrafts that gain lift using buoyant or lighter-than-air gas that can navigate under its own power and must be tethered to the ground. A hot air balloon is an example of an airship. Early airships utilized hydrogen gas to produce lift however after the Hindenburg disaster in 1937 when 35 people lost their lives, airships have transitioned to using the inert non-flammable helium gas.

In the North, we rely heavily on seasonal ice roads to move goods and supplies to our most remote communities. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent over the past 40 years on melting infrastructure to connect our people. By not investing this money into permanent infrastructure, we now find ourselves in a state of peril as the uncertainty of climate change wreaks havoc on the extremely sensitive ice. The vast geographic landscape of the North is rich in resources, couple this with a lack of transportation corridors and isolated communities, and the Northwest Territories may be a place to consider airships for our future needs.

Airships may prove to be cost beneficial over traditional transportation methods such as building and maintaining roads, as well as landing strip infrastructure is not required furthering savings.

Possible applications for airships in the North could include passenger and cargo transportation, firefighting and emergency relief efforts, telecommunications, tourism, and geographical monitoring and surveying.

Airships can provide an environmental benefit. Under certain conditions, airships can have better emission levels than traditional overland travel methods while having a lesser impact on local wildlife and terrain. Airships also have a much higher fuel efficiency than conventional heavier-than-air aircraft and an airship produces 80 to 90 percent fewer emissions than a conventional airplane.

In May, I will be presenting virtually at the 2022 Aviation Innovations Airship Conference being held in Montreal. Delegates are interested to learn more about how the NWT deals with our transportation issues, including our melting infrastructure. They've asked me to speak on my experience as an ice engineer and consultant in the North and the challenges we face. It is my hope that this will help to inform those who may be interested in collaborating with the GNWT in this interesting and exciting area of air transportation. And Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that my thoughts are with the people of the Ukraine and their families here in Canada. Thank you.

Member's Statement 946-19(2): Airships
Members' Statements

Page 3524

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Members' statements. Member for Hay River South.

Member's Statement 947-19(2): Addictions
Members' Statements

Page 3524

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past several months the NWT has many young people to drug-related deaths. They were sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and friends. Why do we continue to let this happen?

Mr. Speaker, whether we call these drug-related deaths an overdose or murder, the fact remains that these young people have been taken from their loved ones. Their families will have to live with the devastating fact that they have lost someone special to a disease that is remorseless and unrelenting, not only for individuals but for families and the community as well.

'We know it is a difficult and sensitive issue and that is part of the challenge. We can no longer keep quiet. We can no longer tiptoe around the issue. It is time for this government to realize that we must change the way we engage drug dealers, the way we support those with addictions, and the way we support families impacted by addictions. Change must begin somewhere. It must start now, and it has start with us.

Mr. Speaker, it is our responsibility to talk to all those that come through our offices. Throughout my adult life in Hay River, more so now as an MLA, I had, and continue to have, people that I personally know with addictions coming to me seeking help - known drug dealers seeking help, family members seeking help for loved ones, and hearing their pleas are difficult but necessary if we want to address the issue and to effect change. We need to hear their stories, and we must not judge as they come to seek our support.

Mr. Speaker, from the standpoint of both justice and health, this government must ensure it has the financial and human resources in place to combat the disease of addiction. We must work in partnership with Indigenous governments, community governments, non-profit service providers, residents and, most importantly, we must engage those living with addictions.

Mr. Speaker, the approach and path we are on is failing our youth and residents. In a previous statement I said one more death in our community is one too many. Since that time, there have been many. Mr. Speaker, my heartfelt condolences go out to all families who have lost loved ones to addictions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 947-19(2): Addictions
Members' Statements

Page 3525

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Member's Statement 948-19(2): Housing
Members' Statements

Page 3525

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to add to my colleague's theme day yesterday in this House since I wasn't able to do so.

Mr. Speaker, one of the issues I'd like to raise is how the Housing Corporation leases many of the units for the residents in Inuvik under their program. They lease a numerous of housing units in the Nova Apartments. Since I've been elected there has been nonstop issues with that apartment building that I've received, from not only my constituents but the other constituents of my colleague, that there are illegal activities going on, fire alarms being pulled in the middle of the night, parties continuously going on. But the one thing, Mr. Speaker, is that the landlord is part of another company.

The landlord is not with -- is part of the Housing Corporation.

I did approach the housing minister after I heard of the apartment building being purchased in Yellowknife to see if that would be a possibility for Inuvik. Since we lease so many units in that apartment building, would it not be more cost beneficial to buy the building, if possible, which would free up more units that they're already leasing privately. That way we can house more of then residents in Inuvik on our housing list at a lesser cost.

Mr. Speaker, we need to start making these decisions now, housing our people now, not coming up with new mandates and new priorities and new plans and new this, new that, new paperwork. We need to put people in houses. And this way will -- I will ask -- I will have questions for the Minister to see if this is a possibility and she will act on it. Thank you.

Member's Statement 948-19(2): Housing
Members' Statements

Page 3525

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Member's Statement 949-19(2): Indigenous languages
Members' Statements

Page 3525

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment for challenging each of us to celebrate the UN's Indigenous language's decade.

I came into this job with a love and appreciation of the power of language. I believe language to be a tool to see the world different at a time when we desperately need a new lens. But language is more than a lens.

Over the last two years, I have had the opportunity to meet many new people. When I reflect on some of the commonalities between the stories people have shared, language revitalization has been an unexpected common thread.

One person shared their journey through addiction. They lost relationships, home, connection to culture, and themselves. Regaining these was powerfully rooted in reclaiming their traditional language.

[Translation] Further down the road, I sat and listened to the connection between traditional language and pride. A man told me of a childhood where he would feel great shame and when his parents and grandparents would speak his traditional language in front of other people. Over time, he lost his language and reclaiming it help him connection struggling youth with their land and traditional and community. [Translation ends] experience of learning their language. Words didn't always come easy, the sound wasn't quite right, and sometimes the words came out as a stutter. Again, this story emerged from a conversation about self-acceptance and healing.

In and out of this role, I've learned language is not only a way for us to see the world. Language connects people to one another, culture, the land, and the work we do in this House. Language is pride, and language heals. Language and memory work together as a moral anchor that bring us back to our foundations. Language is worth learning even if we stumble and stutter along the way.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank our interpreters, especially Mary Rose Sundberg, and also both MLAs from Monfwi that I've had the opportunity to work with and who have both ensured traditional language is heard every day we stand in this House. Thank you.

Member's Statement 949-19(2): Indigenous languages
Members' Statements

Page 3525

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Member's Statement 950-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamber of Mines Working Group
Members' Statements

Page 3525

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. In June and December 2021, I made statements, asked questions, and tabled redacted summaries of the secret meetings of the GNWT-Chamber of Mines COVID recovery working group. As a result of my fifth access to information request on these secret meetings, I am pleased to report that this group has now changed its name and has a public terms of reference.

Furthermore, very short summaries of these ITI/NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines Engagement Group meetings are now posted on the Chamber of Mines website. None of this was publicly announced, as far as I can tell, and this new information is found on the chamber's website but not anywhere on a GNWT website. I am not above taking some credit for this new found transparency and accountability on the part of the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

In the terms of reference, there is an interesting item that "ITI members of the engagement group do not speak for the whole of the GNWT but will serve as an intermediary and liaison across GNWT departments where needed."

I hope that was the case during the previous secret meeting summaries which showed that ITI was going to be "watching" NGOs and pushing to lift land withdrawals. The affiliations of the engagement group are now publicly named and those attending specific meetings are now recorded as well.

As the Minister is probably fully aware, I am challenging the extensive redactions made in the previously supplied summaries of these secret meetings and look forward to a decision by the information and privacy commissioner.

There are still some troubling items in the three sets of meeting summaries now publicly available. The new summaries contain almost no detail as to what is being discussed. Several times, an item is listed as a topic with no details following. That makes me a little suspicious. There is more information in these summaries about the move to map staking and Mineral Resources Act regulations than I have ever seen before. It would be helpful if the department would be more forthcoming with all interested parties and included other interested parties in these secret discussions.

There is also a mention of sharing a pan-territorial study on northern mineral resource investment with the Chamber of Mines when this document has not yet been publicly released. I will have questions later today for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment on this working group. Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 950-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamber of Mines Working Group
Members' Statements

Page 3525

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Members' statements. Member for Monfwi.

Member's Statement 951-19(2): Addictions, Substance Abuse and Mental Health
Members' Statements

Page 3525

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Good morning, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, this is Member's statement to Minister of Health and Social Services regarding community-based wellness.

Mr. Speaker, many people in my regions are suffering with addiction and substance abuse. Achieving good mental health is a struggle for many. Unfortunately, that also means that many of our children and youth are growing up in homes that are not healthy and put them at risk for maltreatment. We are frustrated with this situation.

We know that the health and well-being of a person, family, and community is holistic. We need our health supports to reflect the wishes of our families and communities, yet my fellow community members and leaders are saying our voices are being ignored. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and Social Services need to do a better job of listening to the people in my region, including Indigenous government.

The Tlicho government wants to take some authority. We need addictions recovery and mental health services that respond to our need as Tlicho people. This has to happen now, as many people in my region are choosing not to seek help. We want to be able to get support for addictions, substance abuse, and mental health in ways that are rooted in our culture and from counsellors who are Indigenous, yet many of the people who are providing these services are from the south and have no connection to us. We need support, especially for our youth, that affirm who we are as Tlicho.

Mr. Speaker, my region faces many barriers, including lack of access to counsellors. We do have child and youth care counsellors program that is important to our children and youth, but we are having poor outcomes. The Tlicho government wants greater control over this program as it is our Tlicho children and youth that are being served. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services at appropriate time. Thank you.

Member's Statement 951-19(2): Addictions, Substance Abuse and Mental Health
Members' Statements

Page 3526

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Member's Statement 952-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Members' Statements

Page 3526

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The official flower of the NWT is the mountain aven. The official bird is the gyrfalcon. But I suggest that we add an official smell, Mr. Speaker, and that official smell would be the smell of a traditionally tanned moose hide. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister today for his statement on supporting sustainable livelihoods, and I would like to thank the work ENR is doing to support traditional moose hide tanning. I would like to see more of this.

Mr. Speaker, I have had the privilege of helping many people prepare their hides and attending numerous hide tanning workshops that people have put on across this territory. Yesterday in this House, we heard that it's becoming harder and harder to find traditionally tanned moose hides. The people with that knowledge are -- many elders are dying, and it's not getting passed on. But I know there is an organic grassroots movement for many people to host hide camps, and I want the department and this government to do everything we can to support that.

Hide tanning, unfortunately, is not a profitable venture. It is weeks to produce a traditional moose hide, and really it is not something that I think can be measured in dollars. The Minister rightly pointed out that passing on this cultural knowledge is a form of healing. And I know we have supported many partnerships and Indigenous governments to host hide tanning camps. I know there is work being done through the NWT On the Land Collaborative. I will have questions for the Minister of ENR just so we can highlight some of this programming and get more money out there for all of our moose hide tanners who are some of my heros, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 952-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Members' Statements

Page 3526

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Member's Statement 953-19(2): Eulogy for Germaine Betthale
Members' Statements

February 25th, 2022

Page 3526

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, it saddens me to advise this House that Germaine Deneron Betthale passed away on January 25th, 2022. Ms. Betthale was born on May 1st, 1923, at Fisherman's Lake to Laurent Deneron and Marie Angel Colley. This is where she was raised. Germaine lived in a true Dene traditional way with her family.

She met William Betthale in 1949, fell in love and married him. They had ten children and lived a traditional life on their trapline in the MacCamish Lake area. She was known as amelie, translate "one mom", to her many grandchildren. She was a very skillful, talented, strong, and responsible person. She was always about doing things she felt was right. This included getting her vaccine, her COVID-19 vaccine and booster shots, to keep her and her friends safe. In her last years of her life she moved to Fort Simpson to live in the Fort Simpson long-care facility where she got to meet her old acquaintances and make some new ones.

Although she was separated from her family and lifestyle, she remained strong, getting along, and supporting her friends at the home. She always gave support to others with her laughter, encouragement, and kindness.

The family would like to thank the staff at the long-term care home for the support they offered their mother.

In her younger years she was skilled in the use of the traditional medicine and was a capable midwife who frequently helped women in childbirth. She loved telling stories. People always looked forward to her stories as they were always worth waiting for. As well, she loved singing and dancing to Dene drums.

The family would like to say mahsi for the loving and care for us all. We all one day will see you down the trail. In our hearts, we'll keep you. Mr. Speaker, she will be sadly missed by us all. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 953-19(2): Eulogy for Germaine Betthale
Members' Statements

Page 3526

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family and the community at this time. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Replies to budget address, day 4 of 7. Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these questions will be for the Minister of Health. Indigenous people are those mostly being impacted by addictions. I hear many say they want treatment to happen in the NWT. Then we hear a non-Indigenous bureaucracy tell us we are wrong. Will the Minister listen to the Indigenous community and commit to the establishment of treatment facilities starting in regional centres? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Member for Health and Social Services.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge that addictions is a huge issue in the Northwest Territories. We spend a considerable amount of time reflecting that in this House; this House, which is comprised of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people. And we have a suite of programs that I've spoken about in the past that are available to assist people who have addictions. The starting point, of course, is that the person wants help, and that can be the most difficult step. I've seen that in my own family.

In terms of building centres, we do not have any on the books at this time except for the regional -- sorry, the wellness and recovery centre planned for Yellowknife to open in 2024. We provide on-the-land funding so that people can have mobile treatment and they can focus it in whichever way suits their community best. If there is a need for more bricks and mortars healing, then that needs to be a priority of this Assembly and it's something that we need to talk about together. Thank you.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for her response. And, you know, I think that addictions and treatment of addictions is a priority of this government, and providing the services in the regional centres and in the communities is very important. And, again, I say that the Indigenous community wants to see facilities that they can attend within the Northwest Territories.

So, again, I ask the Minister will she commit to talking with Indigenous organizations, Indigenous governments, and Indigenous people to confirm that is what they want and move forward with looking and planning for facilities in the NWT? Thank you.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate the question. I have the opportunity to meet with Indigenous organizations at bilateral meetings with my Cabinet colleagues, and I recall that in the time that I've been in this role, which is about 18 months, this issue has come up once, and it was the Tlicho government that raised it. They were doing a cost benefit analysis of a treatment centre for their region. If other Indigenous governments raise this, I'm certainly willing to engage in the conversation. I think the question is what the value-added of a building is; what would it provide that would be better than the other forms of treatment that are available in the Northwest Territories. And I also want to say that if it's going to come into our budgeting process, it needs to be identified as a priority by this Assembly. Thank you.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate the response from the Minister. It was noted that we'd have to see what the value added of a building would be to the -- to those that would need it. I always -- and I'd ask there what's the value of a life? And we've lost too many lives over the past several years, and think that, you know, this discussion is an important one and it's got to start somewhere. And we can't brush it off and, you know, pass it on. So again, I ask the Minister will she commit to opening up this discussion and furthering it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to clarify my previous statement. It's not that I don't think that any life is important. Obviously every life is important. And the Department of Health and Social Services provides a suite of services to people who are looking for addictions recovery and aftercare. There's no reason for people not to engage in that process starting today by making an appointment with the community counselling program in their community. The same-day appointments are available.

In terms of having a conversation about a treatment facility in the NWT, I'm prepared to have that conversation. The point I'm making to the Member is it's not my decision alone. Thank you.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Hay River South.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, those that come to grips with the fact they need treatment find themselves placed on waitlists for openings in southern treatment centres. And I know that, because I've got relatives that are -- they come to me and they got to wait for a month or two months or maybe even a few weeks or two days, and sometimes a day is too long. So, you know, we have to do something. So what do I tell them? I'd ask the Minister, what can I tell them to provide them some hope that we're going to be there to provide them the services that they need in a timely manner so that they continue to live? Thank you.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3526

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the best thing the Member can do is refer his constituents to the community counselling program. That's really the gateway to all services related to addictions and aftercare. And so I would invite him to do that. I also want to caution him that having a northern treatment centre is no guarantee that there won't be waitlists.

When Nats'ejee K'eh operated on the Hay River Reserve, there was a month of men's programming followed by a month of women's programming. So if you missed the intake for your gender programming, you could wait up to eight weeks until the cycle started again so that you could go into the treatment program that was appropriate for yourself.

And I also want to add that during the time that Nats'ejee K'eh operated, it was never more than one-third full. There were people who preferentially wanted southern treatment because they wanted to get away from the circumstances of their addiction in the North, and they wanted additional privacy.

So this is a very complicated conversation. It's not just a matter of writing up an RFP for a building. There are many considerations about how a treatment centre would work, how it would be funded, and who would use it. I appreciate the question. Thank you.

Question 934-19(2): Addictions Facilities
Oral Questions

Page 3527

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the other day during question period, the ITI minister said that to attract greater economic opportunities and investment in the Northwest Territories, our territory will need greater access to clean and affordable energy. Does the Minister agree that the Taltson Hydro Expansion will be instrumental in strengthening and expanding our economy for future generations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely, I could not agree more wholeheartedly. The Taltson Hydro facility, and obviously it's one of the big three infrastructure projects that the entire Legislative Assembly has prioritized for this, for our 19th Assembly. It is part of the 2030 Energy Strategy. It is an opportunity for equity participation by Indigenous governments. This project has quite a number of potential of reasons of why it can be a dramatic change to the economic landscape, and I most certainly agree with the statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister agree that all sectors of the business community are unanimous in their support for the Taltson Expansion? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm hesitant to speak directly on behalf of the business community in this role but I can certainly say the engagements I've had to date with mineral resource companies, exploration advanced, and even the operating mines, all certainly agree that they are keen to see the advancement of green energy options in the North and certainly ask about the work that's happening at Taltson. And similarly, any businesses that are in the construction industry that are in the -- would have an opportunity to benefit from greener energy certainly are asking for updates, and they have a lot of interest in this project. So over the next year as we get into a point of further planning, I'm sure we'll continue to hear positive remarks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, this Minister is both ITI minister and finance minister. So she knows the memorandum of understanding with Indigenous groups and the construction of the Taltson Expansion is essential to the project's successful completion. Can the Minister tell us if she and the rest of Cabinet are prioritizing the MOU to move forward with the work on the Taltson Expansion?

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it is in the role as the Minister of Finance, along with the Minister of Infrastructure, that we are -- the two of us are collectively on the steering committee which is as part of the memorandum of understanding. The memorandum of understanding is an opportunity to really approach the design of the project differently. So we're at still a very early stage. We're at the stage of kind of conceptualizing what this could look like, what the project might be. And going through the MOU process is really an exciting opportunity to engage Indigenous governments at the front end. And yes, so we are very much committed to that process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Thebacha.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister commit, in her capacity as ITI and finance minister, to engage with all Indigenous groups near the Taltson Dam, whether in a bilateral or multilateral meeting, to move forward in a positive way to get this project underway? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there -- we are very much committed to the MOU process, and I will certainly ensure that we continue to use that MOU process to engage with the Indigenous governments who have also signed on to that process. That is, again, as I've said, an opportunity to design this program and to design this project differently. Once there of course is a project on which to consult Indigenous governments in the region or in any affected traditional territories, that also, of course, will happen, Mr. Speaker. Consultation and engagement is essential for any project in the Northwest Territories, but definitely the MOU process is the chance where we can bring folks together to help us to really design what this could look like. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 935-19(2): Talston Hydro Expansion Project
Oral Questions

Page 3527

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism, and Investment. It was good to see that there is finally some improved transparency and accountability to the regular meetings between ITI senior officials and the Chamber of Mines. Can the Minister tell us why and when the decision was made to making summaries of these meetings public and why there was no announcement of this change? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism, and Investment.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if I recall correctly, the first time this came up last spring we had made efforts to ensure that meetings were going to be posted in a public fashion, and I do believe that it was actually last session in December that I had informed the Assembly again of the intention to make these summaries public. Putting up some notes on the website is not normally the kind of thing around which I would be doing formal news releases or otherwise but happy to have the information out here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. The new summaries kept of these ITI-Chamber of Mines Engagement Group meetings, they continue almost no details as to what's actually discussed. Several times an item is listed as a topic with no detail following. Can the Minister tell us what is going on in these meetings and why the meeting summaries are remarkably short and lacking in detail? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, those meeting minutes are not intended to be transcripts and there is certainly a danger when there's, you know, the idea that people's comments are being written down not exactly as quotes, not as transcripts, but then being treated as such. So I have asked, and I will verify that the meeting minutes are an accurate reflection of the topics that were discussed, of the attendances, of any action items, of any follow-up, and that's really what I would hope people can take from it so that they do understand the work that the Department of ITI, but also the work that's happening from other departments. We've also made an opportunity -- taken this opportunity to expand and, you know, for example, Mr. Speaker, although it wasn't one of these group meetings, when there was meetings with the chamber during round up, there was ITI, ECE, ENR, we were all present; we were all there together. So again, these are opportunities for the public to understand the topics and the work that's happening, not to act as a transcript. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. As short as these meeting summaries actually are, I've learned more about the move to map staking of the Mineral Resources Act regulations than I've ever seen before, and I want to suggest that the department become more forthcoming with all interested parties.

So can the Minister tell us when her department intends to publicly release a full schedule and plan for the development of the regulations under the Mineral Resources Act? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Mineral Resource Act regulations project is really quite massive, and obviously it contains -- I shouldn't say obviously. It contains quite a number of different components, and putting all those components together with a schedule in and of itself has taken some effort, even as the different pieces have advanced.

So what I can say, Mr. Speaker, firstly, there is, I believe, an outstanding offer to brief standing committee about this work. I'm again happy to reiterate that offer and to give that briefing and to ensure that that is made available, and in doing so we can have the very detailed project schedule, which I mean I've seen it; it's extensive and long and fairly complex in terms of all its interrelations. So if that's an appropriate forum to engage all members of the Assembly, I would certainly be very happy to undertake that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, member for Frame Lake.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3527

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. I've been waiting with baited breath for two years for this plan so I can really hardly wait.

The recently released meeting summaries show that a pan-territorial study on northern mineral resource investment has been given to the Chamber of Mines before it was even publicly released. Can the Minister explain why this privileged access by the mining industry to publicly-funded studies continues, and what is going to be done to ensure other stakeholders have access to this sort of information and input going forward? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, there is a joint research project that was done, the Northern Mineral Sector Investment Study. It was a joint project between Nunavut, Yukon, and the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, it was tabled. It is document 531-19(2 and I'd be thrilled if folks would look at it. It's a -- it does have a lot to say about how to increase resource exploration in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 936-19(2): Industry, Tourism and Investment and Chamer of Mines Working Group
Oral Questions

Page 3528

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question's for the Minister of Housing. Will the Minister of Housing confirm how many units are being leased currently in the Nova Apartments in Inuvik of the 45? Thank you.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister responsible for Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I also just want to acknowledge the questions coming forward to the Housing Corporation because it really engages and really gives us a strong argument and statement with the federal government of how much housing is needed in the Northwest Territories. I just wanted to acknowledge and say thank you to my colleagues for the questions coming forward.

Right now in Inuvik we currently lease 38 out of the 45 at the apartment building located in Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Wow. Wow, Mr. Speaker. 38 of the 45, that's -- that's $950,000 a year according to our O and M that we currently pay per unit. You know, will the Minister commit to looking into purchasing, if possible, because this could potentially house an additional seven families off the waiting list in Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Housing Corporation tries to find, and the partnerships in the smaller communities as well and outside and inside of Yellowknife and looking for housing opportunities. And I know that this number is quite -- like, 38 out of the 45. But we don't have that amount of money right now in this government to be purchasing buildings such as this. I know that we did just purchase one here in Yellowknife for $2 million, and that was an opportunity that we were one of the bidders among ten of them here in Yellowknife as well too, and we were successfully able to purchase that. But unlikely when we're looking at other opportunities through the Northwest Territories, I don't know if we would be able to find another opportunity such as that. We don't have an additional $10 million set aside to be purchasing these buildings. And I understand throughout the Northwest Territories that this is a significant amount, but it's the least amount that we do have, and we did jump at the opportunity when this building was being built to try to alleviate our waitlist in the community.

The other thing that I also pursue as a Minister is our federal funding that is out there with the federal government. We've been quite successful with the rapid housing program and also the co-investment, and also just with the conversations with the Indigenous groups as well.

As those conversations continue, we are talking with the Indigenous groups in Inuvik as well and looking at their possibilities to submit for co-investment application to work with the corporation and working with those -- with the waitlist and those existing leases in Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's been a long time since we've had college family units as well. I know, and you know, in Inuvik there's a huge vacant lot known as the Blueberry Patch. Will the Minister look at working with the Minister of Education on utilizing this vacant land formerly known, like I said, as the Blueberry Patch in the collaboration possibly with an Indigenous government to build family college units, housing units for our community as they both lease units privately off the market as it stands in Inuvik. And this -- you know, with all the federal money coming in and the focus on housing, I think right now it might be a great opportunity for the two to work together to actually put some units in that Blueberry Patch. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Member for that question as well too because we do have vacant land throughout the Northwest Territories that we do not have the funding to construct and to start building on those properties as well too. I want to highlight the property as well in Hay River that we're trying to work and look at opportunities that we possibly can have to rebuild the seniors complex.

I am familiar with the Member's area as well too as the Blueberry Patch where the college housing was once built and now has been demolished.

I would like to inform the Member as well that we continue those conversations with the Indigenous groups, and if there's an opportunity that we are able to successfully see a co-investment application going forward, I would like to speak with the Indigenous groups as well if there is a possibility that they may require this property to be built on. I think partnership is a great opportunity in the Northwest Territories, and the Housing Corporation can compromise with those opportunities going forward. But presently right now, we do not have additional money in our budget to be constructing a whole apartment complex.

The other I want to just highlight is that I did ask the department to provide a 160-unit I guess -- putting their numbers together, what would it cost for us to acknowledge the same situation here in Yellowknife, with the 162 leases that we do have here in Yellowknife with Northview, what would it cost the Housing Corporation to build on our own the same thing in Inuvik. We just don't have the money in our budget but it's something we are speaking about. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know what, all I have to say is my colleagues in this House have been saying over and over and over again to the housing minister ask us for the money, and we'll -- we'll -- we'll -- we'll say yes, if you put it in the budget. So, you know, we have one more cycle in this House, and you know, I know that there's money that's been awarded, announced for Indigenous governments and for this government and, like, I'm not sure with the new announcement in the news if that money's going to come to us in the territory but, you know, I hope that this Minister focuses the next year on actually getting more houses and our waitlist cut short. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And absolutely, like, you know, if I were to put forward and forecast the additional money for the department, in respect that we do have other programs and services that do suffer when we are reallocating money to the corporation as well, and I respect my colleagues on this side as well as trying to find a common balance of what it is that we can provide.

And I also want to highlight that the -- that the progress that I've made with the federal government in receiving the 90 units throughout the Northwest Territories and also wanting to provide a second submission to the federal government to acknowledge our shortage in seniors housing as well too.

And I also want to acknowledge the announcement of the $80 million that was provided by the federal government. I don't have information on that. I would have to follow up with the department. But in response to those vital programming, the Housing Corporation did invest into a position that does work with the Indigenous groups to provide further information on completing applications and what further housing opportunities are out there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 937-19(2): Housing
Oral Questions

Page 3528

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I spoke earlier today about the need to make sure that we continue to produce traditionally tanned moose hides. And one of my concerns in this area is I know many harvesters do not take the hide when they harvest a moose. It's quite a bit more work. Harvesting the animal to take the hide completely. And if you have no one to give it to or you're not willing to put in the weeks of time yourself, it's not really worth taking it out of the bush. And I'm just wondering if the Minister could look into some sort of incentive to make sure people try and take the hides from moose. I know we pay people, I believe it's 50 bucks and you get a free hat if you bring in a moose jaw, and I know we advertise in a number of other areas to take all parts of the animal. And I'm just hoping the department can look into some way to make sure we're not leaving these beautiful hides in the bush. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3528

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3528

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, ENR is open to discuss possibilities for moose hunting and hide tanning incentives and training through our online program. I think we talked about it in Committee of the Whole yesterday, and we said that we'd look into that there.

We know tanning is often a family and the community-based activity where knowledge is passed on to the youth. This is why ENR, ITI, ECE, and HSS have been providing financial and in-kind support to the NWT On the Land Collaborative to ensure that these skills are retained.

ENR is happy to have conversations with organizations interested in running hide camps and programs on a case-by-case basis and encourage anyone interested to, reach out to ENR on the land unit to discuss the available funding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to commend the department on their work to date working with ECE to get the hunter ed program in the schools. I know we're piloting it in nine schools. I also know there's been some work through Bush Kids and other initiatives to have kind of traditional knowledge in schools. But I would really like to have the Minister work with his ECE colleague to get hide camps into schools. Is this something the Minister could look into doing? Thank you.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, educational bodies and schools have programs in place to bring in cultural programs to the schools. ECE has some funding for cultural programs and often gets funding from other departments, organizations to supplement school or community-based initiatives. ENR and ECE recently launched the hunters education as a high school credit program, as the Member talked about and I said in my Minister statement here today. The implementation of this pilot project can inform the development of other future harvesting programs.

ENR has also provided funding to schools throughout the NWT to take a kid trapping what -- which supports other land skills -- based skills. ENR will continue to partner and support external organizations such as schools, Indigenous governments, and Indigenous organizations to develop, deliver land-based learning opportunities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the department has provided support through a variety of funding mechanisms for hide camps. In the past, I know they've supported the Dene Najho Urban Hide Camp which happens right in Somba K'e Park here in Yellowknife.

I'm just hoping the Minister can give me a total of how much money we have provided to support this area and exactly where one can apply, where the funding comes from? Thank you.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. In my Minister's statement today, I talked about the land -- On the Land Collaborative. The collaborative supported eight specific hide tanning programs since 2006 for a total of approximately $195,000. ENR Takes a Family on the Land program can support tanning given its focus on mentorship. The next applications call for this program is expected to open April 2022.

Through ECE, the arts -- NWT Arts Council has funded individual handing time -- individual hide tidy -- or tanning projects and provides support to organizations such as the Northern Life Museum in Fort Smith. All our application programs are advertised, and interested organizations are encouraged to contact on the land units for more information. And if they have challenges with that, reach out to our regional offices. Our regional office staff are more than willing to help them with this sort of thing as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Yellowknife North.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister may have answered my question there but I'll tell you 200 grand for those eight camps was a great deal, and I know many people are running these not necessarily with government support, that they're community-driven initiatives. But I've talked to some of the organizers and they'd really like to, you know, take these to another level, perhaps fly in elders, fly in people to help support, you know, turn them into bit of kind of an educational aspect as well. And I just would ask the Minister that perhaps the department, you know, with this fund, reach out to people who run these camps and get the word out there that anyone who wants to run a hide tanning camp, the GNWT is willing to support them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I think here we're telling people that we're interested; please reach out to us. We don't know all of the time what camps are out there and that, so we encourage them to reach out to not just, like I said, the on land unit but our regional office. We're more than willing to work with them, work with the schools to do this. So the Member is right; this is very much about, you know, being able to pass on traditional knowledge, and that's what we're all about, is trying to be able to do this. So if the Member is aware of certain things, please have him get them to reach out to our regional offices and we'll work together with them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 938-19(2): Moose Hide Tanning
Oral Questions

Page 3529

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Monfwi.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This for the Department of Health and Social Services. So what is the department doing to recruit more Indigenous counsellors? Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you to the Member for raising this issue. The staffing shortages that we see across the NWT are particularly acute in the Tlicho region and Behchoko in particular.

There are vacancies for the manager of health services, the nurse-in-charge, two nurse practitioners, two public health nurses, five community health nurses, one clinical nurse educator, eight community social workers, two child and youth care counsellors, one child and youth care supervisor, two individual and family counsellors, and one trauma counsellor. In other words, I don't know who's working in Behchoko but you have a very large vacancy rate there.

We advertise these jobs on a territory-wide basis. And we, as you know, preferentially hire P1s who have been -- who are Indigenous to the NWT. We also preferentially hire people who come out of the Indigenous Gateway Training program. So we put out the job competitions generally and hire Indigenous people preferentially. The caveat there is that they need to apply and to have the relevant experience. These, in some cases, are specialized positions which require specific training. Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Will the Minister and leadership team commit to visiting Tlicho region to discuss how to create more culture and community-based solution for addiction, substance abuse, and mental health? Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. The delivery of health and social services in the Tlicho region, as the Member knows, is handled by the Tlicho Community Services Agency. I have met with them once while in this role. Certainly interested in meeting with them again to discuss any of the issues that they are particularly concerned with. The TCSA is also part of the leadership council for the NTHSSA, and so I do see the chair, Ted Blondin, at those meetings, which I attend about once every three months. Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. Will the Minister commit to identifying where the Tlicho government can take authority over mental health program? Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. I'm sure the Member appreciates that we want the initiative to come from the Tlicho government, and so we are interested in seeing any proposals they have that would expand their service delivery, would make it more culturally appropriate to their region, more specific to their region. We have the specific funds that the Tlicho government applies for, such as on-the-land healing. But we're interested in seeing proposals for other services that we provide that the Tlicho government would like to provide instead. Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Monfwi.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. Will the Minister commit to transferring the child and youth care counsellor program responsibilities to Tlicho government? Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the recent bilateral with the Tlicho government, I indicated that we were interested in discussing this possibility. We would like to see a proposal so that we understand what it is that the TCSA would like to do with those positions. And of course that would include a discussion with ECE since the CYCC program is a joint initiative of our two departments. Thank you.

Question 939-19(2): Addictions Counsellors
Oral Questions

Page 3529

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I'd like to continue the conversation started earlier this week in regards to child and youth mental wellness.

The Health and Social Services has a child and youth mental wellness plan in which objective 3 states: Provide training for all NWT school principals, program support teachers, junior kindergarten to 12 educators, and classroom support assistants in trauma-informed and culturally respectful practices. I'm wondering if this training has been developed. Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3529

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible Education, Culture, and Employment.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3529

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, in response to the child and youth mental wellness action plan, such training has been developed, both trauma-informed classroom training and culturally sensitive classroom training. It is not mandatory for all NWT educators, but it is available upon request and it's free to education bodies, and there has been significant uptake on those programs. Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3529

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering if the Minister can define "significant uptake" and if the Minister is willing to work with school boards to mandate this training for educators who work in the territory. Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3529

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, I don't have the numbers in front of me, and it's not -- it's not as easy as just mandating training for educators. As I think we've learned over this Assembly, there's a strong separation of authorities between education bodies and the department. That being said, we always encourage training; we provide extensive training; we work with the NWTTA to ensure that their members are aware that the training is available. And as we go forward in modernizing the Education Act, this is definitely an area where we want to look at to ensure that all teachers receive the appropriate training. Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate the Minister parking -- putting that in the parking lot for the Education Act, because I think it's really important. If it's important for our public servants and our frontline staff to be educated about the history of the Northwest Territories and working in a trauma-informed way, then it's equally as important for educators to be doing the same.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, 2SLGBTQQIA awareness and training and in creating inclusive classrooms saves lives. So will ECE also mandate the 2SLGBTQQIA awareness and training for NWT educators as part of that conversation? Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3530

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And again, I can't really mandate glad things but we do do our best to develop the resources and provide the resources, promote the resources at no cost to educators. So the LGBTQ2S+ equity, safety, and inclusion guidelines training is available upon request from ECE. In addition, we have safe school regulations that mandate that all 49 schools in the territory provide a safe school plan which includes identifying LGBTQ2S+ resource people in the school and gender sexuality advisors. ECE works with local partners to put on the triannual rainbow youth conference. Unfortunately, the last one was scheduled for April of 2020. It was fully planned and ready to go but obviously that did not happen for reasons we're all too familiar with. And so we do work to develop and promote this training and provide this training at every opportunity. Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3530

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Kam Lake.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that there are a lot of expectations on all of us right now, especially educators and mandating something like that, through maybe a ministerial directive, can be a tall ask sometimes. But when the -- when the repercussions of not doing it are far too great, when the repercussions of not using informed language are far too great, sometimes making that extra step to mandate something is worth it and is important.

Even here in the Assembly, as busy as all of us are, especially our ministerial colleagues, we took the time together to do a blanket exercise. And while all of us in this room are aware of the history of the Northwest Territories, the act of going through that was incredibly powerful as a group. And so would the Minister consider putting together a ministerial directive in order to mandate training like this for the Northwest Territories to better serve the children of the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3530

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Being the Minister of Education is all about relationships. We have to work with the teachers; we have to work with all of the education bodies across the territory. And I think that we have a good relationship with both of those entities and, as a result, we're able to make things happen without having to mandate them.

I think there is desire among all educators to have this training. That's why there has been uptake on this training. The local school boards see the value in this training, and so that's why it happens as well. So I don't think this is a situation that requires a mandate. I think that much of the work that the Member is talking about is actually happening. So I want to give her that assurance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 940-19(2): Youth and Child Wellness
Oral Questions

Page 3530

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Oral questions. Member for Great Slave.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was going to ask the Minister of Infrastructure some questions about airships but she isn't here today so I'm going to put the Minister of Housing on the spot. Could I please get an update on where the Aspen Apartments is at in my riding, and what the plans are for its future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister responsible for Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Right now currently the Housing Corporation had negotiated with Canada to extend our rent-free lease with Aspen Apartments. I'm not too sure when that rent free lease would expire. I'd have to get back to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess that I would like to ask the Minister what she thinks about using Aspen going forward for potentially the vulnerable population given the number of children that are in the apartment buildings nearby and the safety issues that I raised earlier in week? Thank you.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the Aspen Apartments, that is a government -- I mean a federal government-owned building. So we've been trying to work with the federal government in order for us to maintain and keep that lease. But there are other conversations going forward that they would like to acquire that building back. But we are looking at the response to COVID and using that building and with programming as well. And I do hear the Member speaking about our youth, the homelessness in that population as well too, and the corporation is working strategically with the Department of Health, and it's more of a wrap around service delivery as well too. But just on the movement that we have been making so far, that we also acknowledge the need for youth homelessness as well too. But presently right now, we are just working in Yellowknife with the transfer of the -- sorry, I can't remember the building that we just purchased. But we're working in that -- Nordic Arms, sorry. Yeah, Nordic Arms, thank you, transfer right now. But I can follow up with the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the housing minister for her answer. I guess I'm just going to take this opportunity to reiterate my comments from earlier this week that I would like to see some changes being made to the prioritization list of housing clients for the Nordic Arms in order to prioritize vulnerable families. If the Minister could speak to maybe committing towards doing that, that would be great. Thank you.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So right now we are looking at, you know, finalizing the purchase of Nordic Arms. What I can tell the Member right now is that we don't have anything set concrete. We have a lot of scenarios that are out there. We're wanting to work with the waitlist. We're wanting to work with the transfer list. We're looking at mobility issues as well amongst our clients and if those units are actually suitable to meet those needs. We're also looking at seniors and a variety of programming as well, too, and how we're going to better serve the people in Yellowknife as well. But just taking very careful consideration on how we're going to be looking at the transfer, and I know that we do have a number of issues here in Yellowknife, and the Member has expressed to me really looking at the transfer list and the safety of our clients as well too. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Great Slave.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the Nordic Arms, I've heard the Minister say that they're working on the current tenants that are there in transitioning them. Does that mean to say that there will be some private tenants within the building, or is the plan to eventually transition all of the private renters out and put in solely housing clients? Thank you.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The plan is to eventually transfer all tenants who are currently in the building. Our priority is low cost income housing for our low cost income clients as our priority. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 941-19(2): Nordic Arms Apartments
Oral Questions

Page 3530

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3530

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was reviewing the four-year capital plan, sorry, MLA plans for the Northwest Territories, and it talks about increased number of affordable housing and reduced cost housing needs. Also yesterday the Minister of Housing talked about a new vision statement for the Northwest Territories for housing. And the biggest thing I'm thinking about, we already talked about the last few days, was that housing is a big issue here in the Northwest Territories. I know Mr. Johnson, my colleague here, talked about $20 million for housing. But that's one part of it.

The other part it as well, Mr. Speaker, is the repairs that's needed in the communities. In my budget here right now for the Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh riding, I got $3.4 million that's just going for repairing public housing units.

So my question to the Minister is in regards to public housing, I want to ask her one question is that the public housing is -- in 2036, they're saying that CMHC is going to be cutting back on funding public housing altogether. My question to the Minister is what's the transition, and how are you going to communicate with people's Indigenous governments and the communities as to how you're going deal with liquidating or -- what are you going -- what are your plans do with all your assets for the NWT Housing Corporation? Thank you.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3530

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister responsible for Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3530

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you to the Member for the question as well because the -- the date of -- of 2038, 2036 is, you know, greatly fastly approaching, and the Housing Corporation has been working very closely with the federal government and to acknowledge this date and also to acknowledge our aged assets in the Northwest Territories as well in looking at how are we going to look at replacements. Also for home ownership as well too, providing home ownership is another priority of this government, and it's a mandated issue as well too that I have to meet.

So looking at those units that we do have on the ground, there is the opportunity to be working in partnership with those Indigenous groups. And I do hear the Member of, you know, $3.4 million, I need to look at my material, I don't have those numbers available in front of me, but I can follow up with the Member to discuss opportunities and what are we doing good forward for his riding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister share with the House their plans as to how they're going to deal with the -- all units in the Northwest Territories, as to how they're going to deal with it, whether they're going to devolve it to the communities or is there O and M costs that's going to go with it, or -- like, I know they want to work with aboriginal governments but, Mr. Speaker, there's still a lot of big issues with trust working with the Housing Corporation because of -- for years, their policies don't fit the aboriginal government needs in our communities, and we still have huge issues in our communities. So Mr. Speaker, I'd like to know what are their plans in this area. Thank you.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And, you know, for myself coming from a smaller community as well too and you know going back to my riding, like, I see the similar issues that the Member is expressing. And with the change of where we are going as a corporation and really looking at revamping everything within the corporation and the most -- the focus that I'm looking at is our policies as well that doesn't fit the needs of the people of the territories. Times have changed. Our approach is going to change and looking at face-to-face client service as well, and looking at what type of relationship are we going to have with the federal government. And -- but presently right now looking at those units that are on the ground, we have to take into consideration that we do receive funding for those units, operation and maintenance funding that is crucial right now, and looking at replacing them. And also looking at the local housing authorities and looking at their capacity. Are they able to program deliver on our behalf? Are they able to operate and maintain those units at the ground level? But also working with the Indigenous groups too and looking at what are they forecasting and how are they going to be addressing community -- housing at the community level.

We can't address and solve this issue on our own. We need the Indigenous groups. We need to be working in partnerships and looking at stakeholders throughout the Northwest Territories and finding those opportunities. I do understand that in the smaller communities, we're very isolated with limited capacity and limited response to even responding to freeze-ups, to responding to pilings being replaced, and we need to further look at those and take those into consideration as well too, what type of capacity do we have at the ground level.

But I'm more than willing to be working with communities, with leadership, and looking at should they be wanting and interested in the federal funding that is out there as well too, that the housing Housing Corporation is more than available to be seeing those applications successfully submitted and working with those Indigenous groups. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And it's good to hear what they're -- the Minister's reply on that, is that when we say we talk about working with aboriginal governments and that kind of thing, we still need to work and build that confidence and trust with the aboriginal governments. For too long, you know, the -- we've been trying to fix the problems in our communities on home repair programs. I got -- like, I have a constituent in my community, they have sewer backup drain in the bathtub and they're making too much money; they can't qualify. And if -- so there's just so much barriers in place trying to deal with these issues.

So my question, if we are going to look at building any relationship with governments, the thing is that the -- you know, we talk about co-investment, and you mentioned that earlier. If we're going to build that relationship, my question is does the Housing Corporation policy supply in that co-investment when we work with aboriginal governments? Because if that's the case, it's not going to work. So my question to the Minister, that would be my final comments. Thank you.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I hear the Member when it comes to smaller communities that when we come in as a corporation, that that relationship needs to be improved. Like I said, I do come from a smaller community. I have even purchased one of the Housing Corporation units years ago and was not satisfied with the service that I was provided with.

Myself as a Minister, I bring that grassroots real conversation to the table, and the Housing Corporation has responded, and it's responded into creating a Council of Leaders working group where we put the Indigenous groups, and we speak with them in collaboration and in partnership, hearing what they've got to say and also making those changes and driving our policy change as well too, to better meet the needs of the people of the Northwest Territories, to qualify for our programs, and taking into consideration as well too the cost of living is drastic and our employment and training in our smaller communities is very limited.

And also looking at if we do -- the other question that was asked if we do have a policy looking at the co-investment fund, that we don't have but we've reacted anyways. We do have an employee that does work on these federal applications, and the Housing Corporation is more than willing to be working with those Indigenous groups and bringing those applications forward.

During the lifetime of this government, I would like to see every Indigenous group submit for that co-investment fund. I would like to see the Housing Corporation work with them and also identify their needs coming from the grassroots level. And when we are housing -- when we are delivering housing programming, the Council of Leaders working group is the table to be expressing those changes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 942-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Plans
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Question 943-19(2): Talston Hydro Project
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of ITI gave a very vague answer to my last question and did not answer fully on the expansion of the Taltson River Expansion. Will the Minister, in her capacity as ITI and the finance Minister, engage with the Salt River First Nation, whom's reserve lands border the Taltson Dam and they also consider this their traditional territory, whether bilateral meetings could take place to bring Salt River back to the table in this very important project with the expansion of the Taltson; and, moreover, we as a government to move forward in a positive way on this project and reinstate their consultation funds in order to do this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 943-19(2): Talston Hydro Project
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism, and Investment.

Question 943-19(2): Talston Hydro Project
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Salt River First Nation was one of the Indigenous groups that had signed on to the Memorandum of Understanding process and, along with the GNWT and other Indigenous governments who are in the area affected by energy generation potentially, and who would therefore have potentially an interest in participating in the design of the program. There have been two steering committee meetings thus far of this group; however, at the first one Salt River First Nation decided they did not want to participate in the MOU process.

That is certainly their prerogative, Mr. Speaker. We can't certainly force anyone to participate in this MOU process that we've designed collaboratively with the other Indigenous governments. And I would love to see them come back to that table. I think all of the members of the steering committee, all of the Indigenous governments as well, would like to see them return to that table, and I am certainly hopeful that we will see them back so that we can collectively design what this project might look like. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 943-19(2): Talston Hydro Project
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In order to do that, I think that there has to be a process that has to be followed to ensure that the main proponent in this whole Taltson Expansion is consulted, and I think that it's our duty as a government to ensure that they are brought back to the table. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I would like to see that. Would the Minister confer on that? Thank you.

Question 943-19(2): Talston Hydro Project
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, again, I certainly will commit to reaching out again. And I think that the steering committee also is directing that we reach out collectively and try to ensure that memorandum of understanding is, to its fullest, utilized in the design of the project.

Mr. Speaker, with respect to consultation, absolutely; when there is a project to consult on, if the Salt River First Nation hasn't come back to the MOU process, which again certainly hoping that they do, if that's their choice not to then, absolutely, any and all Indigenous governments on whose traditional lands and territories a project would potentially have some impact will be consulted. We're not at that stage yet, Mr. Speaker. We don't have a project to consult on. But when we do, we most certainly will be consulting with those who are potentially affected. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 943-19(2): Talston Hydro Project
Oral Questions

February 25th

Page 3531

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions, Member for Thebacha. Oh, colleagues our time for oral questions has expired. Written questions. Returns to written questions. Replies to Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Reports of standing and special committees. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Education, Culture, and Employment.

Tabled Document 575-19(2): Operating Plans for Northwest Territories Education Bodies for the 2021-2022 School Year Ending June 30, 2022, Volumes 1 and 2 Tabled Document 576-19(2): Annual Reports for the Education Bodies of the Northwest Territories for the 2020-2021 School Year Ending June 30, 2021, Volumes 1, 2 and 3
Tabling Of Documents

February 25th

Page 3531

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents: Operating Plans for Northwest Territories Education Bodies for the 2021-2022 School Year Ending June 30, 2022, Volumes 1 and 2; and Annual Reports for the Education Bodies of the Northwest Territories for 2021-2022 School Year Ending June 30, 2021, Volumes 1, 2, and 3. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 575-19(2): Operating Plans for Northwest Territories Education Bodies for the 2021-2022 School Year Ending June 30, 2022, Volumes 1 and 2 Tabled Document 576-19(2): Annual Reports for the Education Bodies of the Northwest Territories for the 2020-2021 School Year Ending June 30, 2021, Volumes 1, 2 and 3
Tabling Of Documents

February 25th

Page 3532

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, Bill 23, Bill 29, Bill 38, Tabled Document 561-19(2), with Member for Deh Cho in the chair.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 25th

Page 3532

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. Minister Simpson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 25th

Page 3532

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order under Rule 3.2(3)(m). I waited until today to raise this point of order because I wanted to review Hansard, and I'm raising it at the earliest opportunity at the commencement of Committee of the Whole where the remarks at issue were made.

During Committee of the Whole yesterday while the Minister of the ENR and departmental officials debated the main estimates for the department, the Member for Monfwi asked questions about the barren-ground caribou mobile management zone. In that context, the MLA said the following as quoted from the unedited Hansard: But the assistant said it's going to take, like, at least 60 days to, you know -- to get the word out. But we don't have 60 days.

According to Rule 3.2(3)(m), a Member can be called to order if the Member introduces any matter in the debate that offends the practices and precedents of this Assembly.

This House has long abided by the practice to not make statements in the House about an individual who is not a Member of this House and who is not present to defend themselves. The MLA for Monfwi makes statements about a specific individual who was not in the House.

Further, the MLA said the following as quoted from unedited Hansard: Because you -- some people are saying that that is not true. It's not true that why did -- it's not true that why did they -- did the boundary so big. They're not telling people the truth. End quote.

Mr. Speaker, the proceedings of this House are based on the long-standing tradition of respect for the integrity of all Members. This includes refraining from the use of unparliamentary language. The Member for Monfwi used language in the Assembly which offends our rules of debate, order, and decorum when she said, quote, "they are not telling the truth", end quote.

Finally, the Member's comments offended the practices of this Assembly because they undermined our consensus government system by attempting to discredit the Minister.

Yesterday, the Minister of ENR stated that he did not want to be the Minister of "no caribou." This was an expression of his passion for ensuring the safety of the Bathurst caribou herd and the measures put in place to protect from decline.

In response to that, the MLA for Monfwi stated: Yes, well, if the Minister doesn't want to be known as the Minister who got rid of all the Bathurst or known of getting rid of certain species, then I think he should change or do a Cabinet shuffle because that's not what the answer that we wanted to hear. End quote.

The guiding principles for consensus government in the NWT say that, "Consensus government is defined by the ability and willingness of all Members of a Legislative Assembly to work together within their respective roles for the collective good of the people of the Northwest Territories."

While the guiding principles also recognize that a healthy level of tension must exist between Cabinet and Regular Members, the ultimate goal of Regular Members is not to defeat or discredit Cabinet.

The MLA for Monfwi's remarks were taken to mean, by the Minister, that he should be shuffled from his portfolio of Environment and Natural Resources for not giving the response that the MLA wants regarding the conservation of the Bathurst caribou herd. This exceeds the healthy level of tension that is expected in debates in the House. As a whole, this type of exchange is not helpful to advancing the business of the Assembly or to maintaining a positive working relationship in the House. On this basis, Mr. Speaker, I respectfully suggest that the MLA for Monfwi be directed to withdraw her remarks and apologize to this House. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Government House Leader and Minister Simpson. The Point of Order has been raised regarding the comments made yesterday during Committee of the Whole by Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong. I will allow debate on the Point of Order.

Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong, would you like to respond.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Sit? Okay. Okay, Mr. Chair, thank you. Mr. Chair, I have listened to the Point of Order raised by the Government House Leader and respectfully disagree.

Mr. Chair, I am a passionate advocate for my constituents, and I am here to speak on their behalf. In response to the House -- to the honourable Member's first Point of Order, I do not believe I violated Rule 3.2(3)(m). The honourable Member suggests I made a statement in the House about an individual who is not a Member of the House and is not present to defend themselves.

First, I did not name an individual person. I referred to an unnamed assistant acting in an official capacity who was relaying information on the Minister's behalf.

As noted in House of Common's Procedures and Practice Third Edition 2017, Chapter 3, Privileges and Immunities, Speakers have stated that Members need to express their opinions in a direct fashion but caution that citizens' representation should not be unfairly attacked.

In ruling on the question of privilege involving an individual who was not a Member of the House, Speaker Fraser expressed concern that the person had been referred to by name. That was not the case here. No one's reputation has been specifically attacked.

Second, the Minister was given an opportunity to respond to my comments. There was no need for the assistant to defend themselves. If the information relayed to the Minister's assistant was incorrect, the Minister and his deputy -- deputy both had the opportunity to correct -- to correct it.

As a result, Mr. Chair, I respectfully submit that on the first point there is no Point of Order.

I will now address the honourable Member's second Point of Order that I used unparliamentary language.

The honourable Member suggests that I offended the rules of debate, order, and decorum when I used the words "they are not telling the truth". Mr. Chair, those words are not unparliamentary language. I was expressing what my constituents have been saying to me. As recorded in the unedited Hansard, I said the following: Some people are saying that that is not true. It's not true that why did they -- why did they did the boundary so big. They're not telling people the truth. And for the record, what I would like the Member to do is that -- it is that can he repeat who was the zone developed by because people would like to know the truth about that one. Who was the zone developed by."

Mr. Chair, I was expressing what people have said -- have said to me about decisions made about the size of the zone. People were telling me that they believe they were not being told the truth. I shared this with the Minister and gave him, the Minister, the opportunity to explain who developed the zone so that information could be public and clear to the constituents.

On February 21st, 2003, Speaker Whitford cited Marlowe and Monpetit noted that when dealing with unparliamentary language, the Speaker must take into account the tone, manner, and intention of the Member speaking the person to whom the words were directed, the degree of provocation and, most importantly, whether or not the remarks created disorder in the Chamber. He went on to note that the language must have the character of being abusive and insulting.

In this case, I would suggest my words did not create disorder. The Chair encouraged Members to exercise caution with their words but gave the Minister the opportunity to respond and set out the facts. As a result, Mr. Chair, I respectfully submit on the honourable Member's second point, there is no Point of Order.

In regards to the honourable Member's third point, it is suggested that my comment that the Minister be shuffled went beyond the healthy level of tension that must exist between Cabinet and Regular Members. Mr. Chair, as stated previously, I am a passionate advocate for my constituents who, despite being 2022, are facing challenges accessing clean water and traditional foods. However, I appreciate my comments, while political commentary, exceeded the normal bounds of debate and for that I apologize for those comments, and I withdraw those remarks. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong. Thank you again, and I will take the matter under advisement. We will take a -- okay, yeah, Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yeah, if you're willing to entertain debate from other Members, I'd like to make a few remarks if I could.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Yeah, we will allow the debate. Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I appreciate, you know, the Government House Leader raising this Point of Order and the words from the Member as well, and I support -- I do not believe that there's -- the first item is a Point of Order that Rule 3.2(3)(m) has been breached in any way. That rule reads, you know, that a Member should not introduce any matter in debate that offends practices and precedents of the Assembly.

I believe that the words of the Member were that the departmental official said something. I don't believe that that offends anybody in this House but I don't believe that there's any grounds for a Point of Order. We have to have the ability, as Members, to raise issues on what we hear from government officials in the course of our debates and discussions here, and I don't believe that it was done -- and there were no allegations made against this individual. The individual wasn't even named. So I don't believe that there is anything here in terms of a Point of Order on the first item.

And I'm not going to speak to the second one.

And given that the Member has withdrawn her remarks on the third one, I believe that was the right course of action, and I look forward to your ruling, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Nokleby.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not going to speak to the technicality of the Point of Order because this is an area on which I'm still myself trying to learn and understand as someone who has struggled with, you know, perhaps how I phrase things and my choice of words in this House. I definitely have a lot of empathy for my colleague from Monfwi who has come into the Assembly halfway through and tried to pick up in what was a very, very trying and troubling time for all of us.

I would ask that the Government House Leader, or whoever makes this decision, that they take that into account, that we've all had moments in this House where we have said things that perhaps we shouldn't have, myself included, and therefore I do not find that while the Member may have gotten passionate about it, it was done with true intent for her people, and I think that should be weighed into it. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Ms. Nokleby. I will take the matter under advisement, and we shall take a short recess. Mahsi.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Members, we shall take a five-minute break and resume to deal with the Point of Order. Mahsi.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

All right, I'll now call the Committee of the Whole back to order.

On the Points of Order raised by the Government House Leader, points 1 and 2, I find there is no Point of Order on those, and the Member has apologized on the third point and the committee will accept that apology. And we've concluded that Point of Order.

So Member for Frame Lake, what is the wish of committee?

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 561-19(2), Main Estimates 2022-2023 with Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Agreed, thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the NWT Housing Corporation. Mahsi.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

We'll now call Committee of the Whole back to order.

All right, committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 561-19(2), Main Estimates 2022-2023, and we are continuing with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. We'll continue on where we left off yesterday, which was with community housing services. Do I have any questions or comments from Members in regards to this section? Oh, sorry, just wait. Minister. Minister of Housing, do you have witnesses?

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Yes, I do, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Yes. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, can you please introduce your witnesses.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have with me today president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Ms. Eleanor Young, and vice-president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Jim Martin. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, and welcome back. Okay, Members, now we'll get back to any Members have any questions/comments to the community housing service. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm hoping this is -- I can ask this question. It's to do with homelessness. And you know, we've been spending -- the department's been spending a lot of money on providing services throughout this pandemic, and I think more so than they have in the past, because I know in Hay River, you know, we didn't really have anything in place for a men's shelter. In this last two years we have. So -- and it's worked out pretty good. We've been looking at approximately maybe, you know, between six to eight people that require the service. And we've had -- you know, we've had two years here. The Hay River Council for Disabilities have been providing that service, night shelter; they've been doing a good job. I talked to the -- I talked to the clients, and they appreciate what's being done for them. However, what we have to do is we need to look at something I guess long term, and I think that the disabilities council is willing to -- I'm hoping they're willing to work with housing and the government trying to establish something that's -- that is longer term and can provide some real programming for the clients. So I'd ask the Minister, you know, what is it that her department is doing to -- long term to look at supporting shelters for people without a place to live? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. I'm just kind of wondering if this question is under -- would be under programs and district operations, not the -- this one is more based for the LHOs, my understanding, but did you want to -- I'll allow the question to continue though. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have a number of homelessness initiatives throughout the Northwest Territories, and we try to work with those nonprofit organizations but also really emphasizing on the co-investment applications where we're able to support. But we do have the two shelters in Fort Simpson and in Hay River that are listed that we are providing funding for. And the only two homelessness initiatives we don't have is in Nunakput and in the Sahtu. I'll have Ms. Eleanor Young elaborate on those homelessness initiatives. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And further to what the Minister spoke to, we are working with our sister social envelope departments to try to coordinate our work on shelters and support to shelters.

A few of the things that we're envisioning happening over the coming year is getting some operating guidelines and training set up to help shelter operators operate in a more consistent basis and have some support from us and to work with the social envelope departments to support the shelters. But as the Minister said as well, look at solutions for where shelters don't exist, how to find organizations interested in operating those, find facilities suitable for operating those. And as the Minister said, look at -- in addition to the co-investment fund, there's a federal program called Reaching Home that also provides support both for capital and operations for shelters. So we're really looking at all aspects of shelter operations and how to support the vulnerable population in all communities across the territories. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Ms. Young. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate that. I'm glad to hear that, you know, we are -- we're not just, you know, ignoring the -- what's happening out there and that we are doing something, that your department is doing something. So that's good news.

And I guess the next question there is I know the Housing Corporation at one point was talking about providing a service that would allow the authorities or associations within the communities to -- I guess to be a type of retailer or sort of a retailer for -- you know, say, for plumbing, a little bit of lumber and that, where that doesn't exist in the communities. Is that something that's still being looked at, or in the works? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that was a conversation and a comment that was made in the past, and we're wanting to provide material to respond to either freeze-ups or what may be needed at the ground level. I'll just ask vice-president Jim Martin to respond and to see what communities we've actually provided additional material for those responses. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. So as the Minister mentioned, the Housing Corp does provide supports at the community level in a number of situations. We do maintain a certain level of inventory across our LHO system for responding to emergencies and situations such as that. We are looking into firming up a few pilots with a few LHOs that are interested in expanding a bit more of their inventory to provide an expanded service offering. So we'll be piloting that in the coming year. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I kind of want to move on here and it was something I talked about the other day in questions I asked the Minister during session, is to do with -- you know, we know that -- we know that the waiting lists are long and -- in the community, and Hay River especially. And, you know, we were supposed to get a couple units; I haven't seen them on the ground yet. And I guess just a general question is, you know, how much work is going in to really planning for additional accommodation in communities? Like, Hay River, for instance, we have that piece of land where -- known as Disneyland that's been empty for a number of years. And I just want to ensure that it's -- that somebody's actually working on something and that -- and there's a timeline with it. And same with the -- you know, with the -- with other buildings. And that -- and you know, and it's not just Hay River. It's probably other communities as well. So I think it's important that, you know, at least for me I like to see -- I'd like to see us moving forward. I'd like to see somebody working on the plan. I'd like to see some timelines. Is that something that the department is undertaking or is it just kind of -- are we just putting out fires? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I just -- you know, this has to honestly do with funding that we do receive, that -- but looking at that I did provide the five-year occupancy for the Disneyland area, and -- or no, am I getting these two mixed up? This is vacant land? All right, and that is forecasted that we would be looking at considering development on that area but I'm not too sure on the timeline. Madam Chair, I'll have President Young respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And as the Minister referenced yesterday, the vacant property and the work that we're doing to look at seniors housing on that property specifically. But I think more generally to the MLA's question, one of the things that we spoke about a few months ago was that we were going to do some core needs analysis and bring this back and hope to have all of that work done to bring back by the end of March. Really looking at what investment we've been doing, where that has been falling behind, what the core need is, you know, where is the gap, what is the public housing need in the territories, and then the question was that we were asked to address was what is the plan to deal with that. And I think one of the things the Minister spoke to in the House is that, you know, we've been doing a lot, although it -- you know, there's still a lot more to be done, and for us this is where so many of the partnership conversations that have been spoke about the last few days really come into play. We've been seeing some really good success in working with proponents to apply on the co-investment fund, and we're starting to see some -- some opportunities come of that with buildings being sold, properties being looked at for investment across the territory. And so I think in working with our partners, we do see some light at the end of the tunnel that we're going to be able to start to address some of these things. But I do look forward to bringing some of that information back as part of the core needs work that we're doing, and we'll bring back to the Assembly later. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, President Young. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So there's -- well, I guess there's -- so I'm going to start with there's currently 2,900, roughly, rental housing units and public housing -- or community housing services, rather, and what is the plan for how many units are planning to come online in this coming fiscal year of new units? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just -- I don't have the timeline. I just have the number of units that's listed here. But in total, we are looking at 90-unit delivery within the lifetime of this government. And just for what is supposed to be constructed for this year, I will have vice-president Jim Martin to respond with that number. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Housing Corporation has three main delivery streams here this year. First off, with the co-investment fund support, we're delivering 60 units. We're expecting to deliver those 60 units, as the Minister mentioned, certainly over the next two years. Our target is to complete 46 in 2022-2023, and 14 in 2023-2024. So that's for the 60.

The second category is the CIRNAC supported units, and that's 30 units. And the 30 units, we've already completed seven, at least by the end of this fiscal year 2021-2022. An additional 21 is targeted for completion in 2022-2023. And the remaining two in 2023-2024.

The third category that we're delivering here is the RCMP housing units, and that's 45 units, and 15 are now completed; eight are scheduled -- well, sorry. Actually by the end of this fiscal year, we'll be looking at 23 to be completed. And in 2022-2023, we'll be completing the balance of 22 units. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So not including the RCMP units, because the Housing Corporation is getting revenue on those and so those would pay for themselves, there's about 74 new units coming onboard in the 2022-2023-year. So with the increase of O and M costs on those units that is expected to come with each of those, is that amount still based on that 25,000 O and M per unit, and is that built -- or is the increase of 74 units in the 2022-2023 year O and M built into this budget? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have vice-president Jim Martin respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-president Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. With regards to O and M, the 90 units that are being supported by co-investment fund and CIRNAC dollars, our expectation is to have those units delivered as expansion units. So that would be new public housing units. And in terms of the ongoing O and M associated with those, we did receive funding support from GNWT for 2022-2023 based on the projected delivery for that year, and we'll continue to obviously bring forward further submissions through the upcoming annual business planning process for the balance. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I feel like I need to apologize because I'm kind of through you talking to people that I have back to, and I always feel bad for that. So sorry about that.

So the GNWT has committed support for the O and M on those units for the 2022-2023 year. But is it then correct that there's no commitment of funding for O and M on those units for any future year after that? So can I just get confirmation on that one and what the plan is for that going forward, if they plan to continue to ask FMB for that and if there is stability in that? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We would be going back to the GNWT after 2022-2023 and build that operation and maintenance into our budget. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Has the Housing Corporation received any kind of indication from FMB or the GNWT as to whether or not they're going to continue to do that following 2022-2023 fiscal year? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We were instructed to go back to FMB. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my next question is in regards to how this will impact the rest of the housing stock.

So we have these new units coming onboard, and we have funding secured through FMB for that. Does this mean that more existing units will then come out of the public housing stock and be transferred into homeownership? And if so, what number is projected to come out of the public housing stock this year in response to that? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Homeownership is one of our priorities as well too, and we have acknowledged the public housing clients and looking at if they're wanting to get into homeownership programming. With that, I'm going to have president Young just report on the numbers and the acknowledgements and where we are with that process. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And just quickly to confirm though, there is not a relationship between the additional expansion units that we're building this year and whether or not units come out of the existing stock for homeownership. That is two conversations. We do have expansion units built this year.

At the same time, though, we are having conversations with clients in existing houses. Our goal over the life of this Assembly is to try to move 100 clients into homeownership that are existing public housing tenants. To date, we have 45 applications in various stages of the process, and our understanding is that two of those could be signed off any day. So we are slowly making progress on getting those clients that are interested to move into homeownership. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I appreciate that. So if I'm in the wrong section for this next question, please let me know. And it's in regards to the declining CMHC funding.

I'm wondering if the Minister can speak to whether or not the Housing Corporation has put in an application to have that declining CMHC funding replaced by the GNWT to FMB? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have vice-president Jim Martin respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-president.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. With regards to the declining CMHC dollars, the Housing Corporation did enter into a bilateral funding agreement with CMHC that extends out to 2027-2028. And under that agreement, the corporation has the flexibility to utilize the funds under that to offset declining CMHC up to that point. So at this time, the Housing Corporation has not returned to FMB for funding offsets for that decline. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In response to that, then, does the NWT Housing Corporation intend to put forward a costed measurable plan as to how they are going to address the declining CMHC funding, which as I understand, are able to be offset by the bilateral funding agreement until 2027-2028. So it gives them a little bit of time to come up with that plan. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Housing Corporation has acknowledged and has been working with the decline that we are going to be seeing. Every year, we are experiencing a percentage that is going down of this funding coming to the Northwest Territories. I will have vice-president Jim Martin respond. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-president Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Housing Corporation has set out in its four-year business plan recognition of this decline and has set out a number of measures that the corporation is implementing ranging from cost saving measures to incremental revenue generation opportunities. So we're certainly looking at all those areas, but do recognize that there is a need to look to the longer term, you know, to plan for that, and there's certainly federal engagement activities going on in this area, and we'll continue to monitor this area very closely going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake. A quick one.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Quick one, oh my gosh. Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I will leave the discussion about retrofits and repairs to somebody else. And I notice that there is an increase in here for rent supplement leasing. Does that have -- is that an increase in leasing units in the territory? Does that have anything to do with the money that's given to ECE for renting and leasing units, and is there an intent to combine those budget line items between ECE and housing so that housing is coming out of one department? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 3535

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We did have an increase in the Canada rent program. I just can't find the number right here right now. I will have president Young respond. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Young

My apologies, I couldn't hear quite the question when I put my earphone on but the number of Canada housing benefit clients? Sorry.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I'll just get the Member from Kam Lake to repeat her quick question.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

I'll just ask one question instead of the three I snuck in there. No, the Canada Housing Benefit I'll ask about in another section. My question was specific to the rent supplement leasing and the increase to that, and can the Minister please speak to what that increase is getting, if it's getting more leases to more units in the territory through market rent? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I'll give it back to Ms. Young.

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Young

My apologies, Madam Chair. We've just confirmed, the budget has not changed in our plans for our leases. There are, of course, nuances through the year in terms of costs but right now we are budgeting the same year over year for our leases. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I've got questions under the apprentices. I want to first thank the Minister and her department for initiating the journeyman housing maintainer program. Our maintenance staff in Providence are really looking forward to it.

What we notice too, because I was an employee of the LHO in the maintenance department too as a journeyman housing maintainer, but when we were there, we always looked in awe at the Department of Public Works and Services at that time, and it was always in the larger centres. Specifically this one we were looking at was in Hay River. They had a full slate of trades on staff, electrical. They had electricians, plumbers, OBMs, carpenters, and those are the main ones anyways, and there was always apprenticeship opportunities in the larger centres for those trades, okay. Nothing in Fort Providence. Probably similar to all the small communities. We never ever get a chance to get a real trade certification because those things are not offered in our communities.

We had a plumber/gasfitter at one point. He trained -- an OBM, not a plumber/gasfitter, which is a better ticket to have, but an OBM. And we also had an OBM on staff quite a number of years ago but that didn't pan out. And right now we don't have any, and we got, you know, units probably the seniors home is the one that has two or three boiler systems in the building, and you need certification to be able to operate those. And I've always said I think there is a problem within the corporation because of that, because the nearest contractor is about two hours away, you know, and for the maintenance of them on a daily basis.

And I'm just wondering, my question would be is if the corporation would consider putting a heating -- journeyman heating ticket, whether it be journeyman plumber/gasfitter, an OBM, or oil heat technician now, into the communities? This will spur, you know, the local economy also and then spur apprenticeship opportunities for our people, which is good for years to come. Mahsi.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for the question because we do see this as an issue throughout the territories and amongst the smaller communities, but I'm quite optimistic with the unit delivery that we do have, and the builds that are coming into the communities, that we may be able to expand on those opportunities. For that, I'll have president Young elaborate on the response. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yes, one of the challenges with journeymen, as the MLA is alluding to, is that as they do their training they require certain numbers of hours of work on the specific trade to become certified and often at the small community level, that can be really challenging to obtain the numbers of hours they require.

One of the things that we've noticed with the approach we've taken with our contractors this year is because they're doing them as work assignments, then it does allow the trainee to work among different employers to get their hours to be able to work towards their trade. So there are some different ways we can approach this. And I think as part of the renewal, one of the things we've done is we've reached out to our LHOs to have a conversation about training needs. And already in some of my early conversations with the LHOs, they've spoke to the fact that as newer technology has come in with houses and that, that their training is not meeting the needs of what they have to service at the community level. So I fully expect as part of our conversation with the LHOs that we'll get some recommendations about changing the way we look at our staffing complement for our maintenance in our communities and how to address that through training and apprenticeship. So I would look to this conversation we're having with LHOs about how to do a better job on that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Chair. Mahsi for that. Regarding, you know, having a hard time getting the hours to meet their apprenticeship, you know, hours per year, that's not a problem when you have someone on staff that recognizes journeymen. You're on staff and you're on pay. So your hours are covered automatically too for the whole year. Because even I as just a housing maintainer, I was able to collect all my hours when I worked there when I was going to go challenge the OBM course but someone didn't allow me into the course for I don't know what reason. But anyways, the hours are not a problem to get. You can get that. And I know through preventative maintenance that when you go to service a furnace, there's four hours per furnace roughly. That's what it is, in the preventative maintenance check. In order to do a proper job on a yearly basis, you have to put in those hours because it's pretty detailed when you have to blow out the dust from all the squirrel cages and everything else. And then changing nozzles, and then you have to go back into getting the furnace to run smoothly again, which is a bit challenging. There is, you know, ample opportunities.

I always said in the Housing Corporation, you got opportunities galore to do whatever you want because you're doing flooring, you're doing basic electrical. You know, you're doing quite a bit - painting, everything. It was, you know, it was a love of my life at that time when I did maintenance, and I did it proudly, you know, and I don't see that now because I see, you know, fascia and eavestrough, everything, hanging and I'm just scratching my head saying what is going on here. You know, when I was working, that would never happen, you know, that wouldn't be allowed to happen. But anyways, so the hours are there for sure, and I'm glad that you will be looking at it but I really encourage you to really put some money to it and get these positions into communities, being mindful of the size of the appliances that we're working with. And it might be going against the water and gas inspectors. I don't know how come they -- I'm not saying much on that anyways.

I'm just wondering about the page 377, your heating fuel. I think you already know where this is leading. I know you probably get tired of me and my little wood pellet boiler stuff. But I'm going to tell you something here, you know, and I've said it before to the Minister numerous times, the wood pellet boiler system, because I was a project officer in Hay River, and we had a system put into Fort Providence Deh Gah School. And when I asked the fuel delivery guy after we had it installed I says, how much fuel are you actually pumping to the school now? He said well, prior to that, we were almost 3000 litres a month. Now, you know, we'd be happy if we even get 500 litres, he says, because the fuel system is acting as a backup now and the wood pellet boiler system is running as the main source right now. It's the peak season when it's really cold in the winter, then you have both systems going. But the majority of the time, wood pellet boiler is running all the time. So, you know, and that's why I speak about it, and you got, you know, 2600 units across the Northwest Territories and that's eating up $9 million, you know. Maybe the challenge to the corporation is let's see how we can reduce that amount and start looking at central systems in all the small communities. I would be more than glad to, you know, be the pilot project, you know, to put clusters of houses to one system, put another cluster of houses in the community, have four or five central heating systems if need be. But I would really, really encourage the corporation to give it a shot. Mahsi.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for NWT Housing Corp -- or Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Member for that. And I don't mind you bringing this up continuously; that's fine. And this is where we work with the Members and looking for improvements for the Housing Corporation and looking at different ways of doing things and looking at cost savings as well.

With this, I'm not too familiar with the supply. Like, I -- just commenting on Nunakput as an example, Sahtu as an example, that these are communities that are not on the highway. So looking at what supply would be offered to those regions and also the expertise on what type of training that these people would need. But looking further south into the Deh Cho, Nahendeh, and the Yellowknife North Slave area and whatever, that this possibly can be something that we could look into further. We've already had the biomass -- biomass, and there was two of them. My mind just went blank. But there was two energy savings initiatives that we did -- we did enter into throughout the territory. So I'll just take that as a comment I guess and I -- and looking at our future builds with the co-investment fund that the communities can access.

This is something that I will highlight to them as well too, and I would like to possibly work with Arctic Energy Alliance as well in looking at the possibilities of how we could work in conjunction, and they are the experts when it comes to energy savings. So I appreciate that comment.

The other thing I just wanted to just respond as well too, for the tracking system, yesterday vice-president Jim Martin had confirmed that we have 21 journey certified workers, I guess, and then we had -- we presently have 33 work assignments through the tendering of the 90-unit delivery. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Okay, thank you. I am aware and I'm -- you know, I've been talking to a lot of people, to a lot of my community -- my constituents as well. So there are a lot of people that I know want to be homeowners. And some do not want to be living in a public unit, you know, but they have no choice. So I know that there's lot of aging homes. So and even, you know, one of the housing -- or housing goal is promoting homeownership program as well.

So I see -- I saw one of your policy that was on the social media, and I don't think that one will work in really small communities because in there, in one of your policy -- in the policy, it states that do you have enough income to pay for operating and maintenance expense, because this will not work for many small communities where many small -- like as, you know, the 2019 Health Chart Report that was published by the Government of the Northwest Territories, it already said it in there there is not enough jobs in the small communities; there's -- the income for family is low. So how do -- like, it's not going to work for many of the community members. So is there any way that you can change the policy, make it more friendly for others in the communities where there's lack of resources, jobs, the family income is low? Is there any way that we can change the policy to accommodate the people in the small communities? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And just to respond to the question, I appreciate this as well too because I kind of -- you know, I come from a smaller community as well too, and I see the need for homeownership. I see where the comments have been coming forward as well and looking at our renewal, this is exactly what's going to drive the change for the Housing Corporation and the opportunity to change those policies, where they're going to work at the smaller community level. And, you know, one of the comments that I did get throughout the Northwest Territories is, you know, just sign over the home to us and let us operate and maintain it.

But we need to make sure that they're able to afford those units as well too. And I don't want the policies to be barriers. I want it to be opportunities on how do we work with our clients. So thank you for that comment, and it's a policy review that we are doing and I will take that back when we're -- when we get to that review of the homeownership. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Well, it would be nice, yes. Yes, I hope that change will happen in that review.

Another one too is that I know there's lot of people that are living in market rental and the public unit, some of them want to become homeowners. Some of them are still paying max rent. And I think some of them probably pay over $500,000 for a unit because -- and what is the housing doing helping these families that have lived in the unit for 20 or more years? Are you guys reaching out to those families, to those people that maybe they want to, you know, transfer the ownership of the house to them for, like, a dollar? Is there anything happening that, you know, promoting that to the community members? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'm just -- I'm loving this conversation to be honest because, you know, this is something that I've worked with the department for as well too that, you know, like I said, I come from a smaller community. I've been amongst my residents as well too where they've lived in these generational homes and they've raised their family and they've got grandchildren.

So what the corporation has done is they've sent out letters to all of the Housing Corporation tenants and seeking if they're wanting to go ahead and looking at a possible transfer where we could be looking at them becoming homeowners of those units, but also considering a formula that I want to bring forward to the corporation and how do we transfer these units. If they've been occupying the units for 20 years, 10 years, 15 years, what are we going to develop, what does that -- what is this going to look like. So that is coming forward to the territory as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

It's good that, you know, we're on the same page because we're both from the small communities. Yes, I think that's going to be good. But are you -- is the Housing Corporation going to assess the value based on what it's worth, not -- or is it going to be based on -- or what it was worth and then based on market value? And because like I said yesterday in one of my Member's statement, is it fair to sell a house to someone with -- that doesn't have running water or the flush -- or the toilet don't flush, or they don't have anything in that unit? So I just wanted to know how is it going to be based on? Are you going be -- is it going to be based on assessed value or market value when you going to be approaching the people who have been living in those units for over 20 years.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have been working with the department, and I want the approach to be a whole assessment but taking into consideration the years that the individual has occupied -- has occupied the unit and obviously the condition rating as well too.

But the other thing that we're also speaking of is once we transfer the unit, what type of funding, would those public housing homeowners-to-be, would they be entitled to? And that's a number that we're putting out there. And this is nothing that has been committed, but I've been looking at to transfer these units in a fair, right condition. So that's an additional amount of money that would be put towards the homeownership program. But we don't have those further details but as we go forward, we will have an opportunity to review those. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. Yes, thank you. I have three minutes left, and I'm watching my time.

Okay, because it's just that since I said that there's not enough jobs and, you know, like, we know that lot of them are income -- you know, like, the -- it's just -- well, according to the report, I'm just speaking from the report too as well, you know, and so that's why so -- so, because already in many of the small communities, income support is already paying, you know, Housing Corporation for some rent. I'm just wondering in this situation, is it possible for those who are under your program, under mortgage program, can the income support program pay for the mortgage in the small communities where there's lack of jobs, employment opportunities in the small communities? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, the public housing program is a low income program that is available to low income earners to house them. So as the same with income support is to, you know, provide income where there -- we see hardship as well too, at a -- for a temporary amount of time.

So I need to bring this back to my department as well because I don't -- because getting into homeownership is where the client can actually afford and be stable in those units as well too. I don't want to create any hardship or any -- and address the real issue that is going on there. If they are income support, there may be struggles for them to operate and maintain their own home if they're having to be supported by government services. So I would have to bring this back, and I just -- and really look at our -- what is expected out of our homeownership programming. But it's not for government support to be paying mortgages on the individuals' behalf. We need to make -- making sure that there's stability and there's affordability from those clients to operate and maintain these houses. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

I think maybe the Housing Corporation should do is that review the access program, housing access program from 20 years ago, because I think in there there was income support were paying the expense and were also paying the rent as well, or mortgage to the Housing Corporation. So there was -- you know, I mean it was done before. So I just need to -- it would be nice if the Housing Corporation can review, you know, the previous policies. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Any follow up comment, Member for -- Minister, sorry -- Minister of NWT Housing Corporation?

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yes, to the Member, like, I'm familiar with the access program. I actually did purchase that over 20 years ago and ended up with no house at the end of it. You know, life happens for everybody, but.

At the end of the day, I just want to say that for income support to be paying for a homeownership program, that the Housing Corporation does its best for client service. And I would need to bring this back, but I'm confident to say that we probably would have reprofiled that access unit into public housing in support of what was best -- the best interest for the client. And like I had said, we need to make sure that we're not setting the client up for a future debt, that we're trying to work with that, and we need to make sure that the client is comfortable enough to operate and maintain those units and take care of all 100 percent expenditures.

But with the Housing Corporation, we do have -- at that time, we had subsidized mortgage sales, that we didn't sell them for 100 percent of the purchase. So that's just my comment for the response. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to stress a couple things. The waiting list in the community of Thebacha is 212 on the waiting list. And I'm just wondering about a couple things with regards to -- first of all, I want to find out how many homes are going to be available new in the 2022-2023 Estimates?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 3537

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And the Member is specifically speaking about her riding?

We are scheduled here for 2022-2023 for Fort Smith for two units. And in 2021-2022 -- 2021-2022, the CIRNAC -- oh, sorry, I'm getting these numbers mixed up, sorry.

Here I have 2022-2023 receiving two public housing units. This is under the CIRNAC, federal funding that we did receive. And also scheduled for this year's delivery for 2021-2022 are two units for Fort Smith. And for our co-investment delivery for Fort Smith, they'll be receiving four. And they should all be constructed by 2022-2023.

I could follow up with the Member and give those numbers because it sounds already confusing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

You know, we're a regional centre. We're not -- I can consider Fort Smith still a small community. That is -- you know, the amount of homes that are going in there is not going to meet the requirement obviously.

I also want to talk about the homeownership program and the retrofits. I want to know how many retrofits are going in to the community of Thebacha.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Member for the question.

You know, when we had the 90-unit delivery that we are projecting this -- within the lifetime of this government, this is additional funding that we got from the federal government, and it's went on for constant advocacy with Canada to recognize that we have an aging -- we have aging infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. We're still trying to operate and maintain units that are over 40 years old, and Canada needs to recognize that and work with us.

And I was -- you know, I was fortunate and happy to be receiving the funding that we did -- that we were able to get allocated.

But also I just wanted to tell the Members that we tried strategically to making sure that each of these communities were at least to be receiving one unit out of the 90-unit delivery and recognizing we have 33 communities and looking at the stock that we have, there's some communities that don't even have a public housing unit, and making sure that they do have a delivery for this year. So I tried to distribute these units very fairly but recognizing 33 communities, 90 units.

I know it's not enough, but our continuous conversations with the federal government is not stopping. We do have the Council of Leaders working group where we raised this as well too where the Indigenous groups are able to take that conversation at their own levels and have their conversations with the federal government. And then also the territories having a housing working group with the appropriate federal ministers as well in raising this constant issue for the territory.

And in regards to the retrofits, the numbers, I don't have that. I just have the unit delivery. So I'll have vice-president Jim Martin to respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. For 2022-2023, we have scheduled 12 major retrofits for Fort Smith. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister -- or Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Madam Chair, you know, the thresholds that are required for anyone wanting to have homeownership or any other thresholds within the housing department in the Housing Corporation, when is the last time they raised the thresholds? Like, has it been 20 years ago? Has it been two years ago? Has it been one year ago? Because a lot of, you know, young people that are wanting to go into homeownership, they both got jobs and then all of a sudden they're $120 over the threshold to buy the house that they were in when they first started out and didn't -- were in public housing. And now they could afford to go into homeownership but then they're told, oh, you're just over the threshold. Everything is based on threshold in this housing department that it's -- sometimes it's unacceptable, the answers, and nobody's thinking out of the box. They follow a little -- a little thing of policies, and they go through them and always disappoint everyone. And I'd like to know when was the last time that the thresholds throughout the whole department with homeownership, with waitings on list, with -- and how they do things. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to quickly comment before I hand this over for the appropriate date, that we've looked at the rent scale and we've looked at the thresholds as well too.

Right now, with our policy review, I -- you know, as Minister responsible, I want to make sure that I recognize hardship.

Hardship is something that -- that I considered when delivering this program. Are we keeping people at poverty level? Are we able to help them to excel and become homeowners and really looking at those barriers that are existing in the Northwest Territories.

But also I want to making sure -- I want to make sure that I'm working with the department to display fairness and consistency, that the Housing Corporation is here to support low income earners as well too and making sure that that funding is provided to the people that are most in need. And that is what our strategy is about, and making sure that we recognize that.

But also looking at the thresholds too, I recognized that a person making $120,000 living in Nunakput is not very much, you know, and really taking those considerations, that the cost of living as well, the fuel prices, and just basic living as well in those High Arctic communities but throughout the Northwest Territories. So I hear you when speaking like that as well too.

And also taking into consideration when we're looking at these thresholds, that I'm wanting to look at health challenges, the limited mobility, the cost of living. I want to -- making sure that we really bring that reality in to the policy changes that we are making, and we take those all into consideration when we're looking at program delivery. But I really want to stress fairness and consistency. The programs are available for the people that are most in need, critical need as well. Madam Chair, I'll have vice-president Jim Martin to respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. This past couple of years, the Housing Corp has revisited a number of its homeownership repair programs, and there has been some adjustments on the homeownership programming side with regards to CNIT levels, core need income threshold assessments. But obviously in discussions with our president and our Minister, there's -- and others, there's certainly more work to be done in this area and I understand that'll be certainly part of the upcoming renewal initiative. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

I just want to -- I'm going to ask the question again because I didn't really get a direct answer.

I would like to know the last time that the Housing Corporation has reviewed and renewed the threshold issue with regards to homeownership, rentals, all these things. And also -- because it's a major block for a lot of people that are just starting out in homeownership. It's a major block in the rental department. And it's a big concern to a lot of the people that I've talked to throughout the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have vice-president Jim Martin to respond at the last time that we looked at the threshold and we looked at the rental rates as well too, when the last time we reviewed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. So with regards to the homeownership programming, that's within the last two years that that assessment was done. Regarding the public housing program, certainly well over five years since that assessment was done. There will be, as mentioned, certainly more assessment in this area in the coming months as part of the strategic renewal. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Seeing there's no one left on my list for community housing services, we will move on to the executive, beginning on page 3 -- oh, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, sorry.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you. And first of all on housing, I just want to just briefly talk about housing.

I just want to mention that I'm also a carpenter by trade. I've worked all over the North, worked for some big companies, worked as an independent consultant, been to many meetings in the North in regards to the Dene Nation, Akaitcho, etcetera, and front and center is housing. And from the people I've been talking to up and down the Valley and also in our constituents, they say housing is broken, the policies don't work anymore for our people.

And so when I look at your plan here, and I really like looking at your -- the four-year plan that's been put together here by the MLA here last -- in 2019 and 2023, and housing's in there, and I like the way they're talking about moving towards working with Indigenous governments to look at building relationships. That's important.

We hear all the issues on housing but nothing seems to get done. They say policies are barriers. I have a constituent in my community of Lutselk'e whose bathtub is, right now it's filled up with sewer. And that person there was told that he can't get a program to fix that repair because he makes too much money. And then if he ever tried to sell that house or turn that house over to the daughter, then they don't make enough money to qualify for a program. So I'm concerned that when we say we're going to work together and start working with Indigenous governments, then we should really do something about it.

Right now, we're seeing that -- my constituent right now for public housing repairs -- or sorry, just to fix up your assets, the Housing Corporation assets, it's $3.4 million. But there's nothing there for repairs, homeownership repairs. Even if we had money, we still got to jump through hurdles to get that money. So if you want to work together, it seems like the Housing Corporation's applying for money through the same department in CIRNAC, and it's First Nations now, it seems like we're competing for money now for housing. We're not working together. We're not working with aboriginal governments.

You know, if want we can fix this problem we all got to work together. And the thing is that we talked about co-investment. How is that going to work if we come together trying to deal with some of these monies that you are applying for from Ottawa? My question is, is your policy going to continue to apply? Because right now, I got constituent members in Lutselk'e that are really dire hard in need of homeownership repairs. Not to mention the policies that are -- that created a lot of these problems in our community, we have a lot of vacant homes that are sitting idle in Fort Resolution. We may have about 20 maybe homes there, that are sitting idle. Same thing in Lutselk'e, N'dilo, and Dettah.

So going forward, I mean I don't have any issues with the staff or anything like that. I just want to make a point here is that this issue is not going to go away. We all need to work together to fix this problem. I applaud my colleague here, asking that we need $20 million for housing. That's not enough. We need more money for fixing these houses to meet it, the demands in our communities. But going forward, right now the communities are saying, oh, we don't like to work with the Housing Corporation because their policies don't work for us. Now we're going to work with Ottawa and try to get our own money.

So to me, when you listen, that's what they're saying. So we got to fix that relationship with Indigenous governments going forward and work together. No longer creating policies that only suit one side. If anything, we should be -- the monies that we get going forward, whether it be the National Housing Strategy or co-investment or anything like that, maybe it's time that we start working -- Indigenous government and do a contribution agreement. So that way here, the communities have the ability to do the work. But most importantly, what I see in here is that we want to create jobs. People are looking for work. So Madam Chairman, I just want just mention that because housing is important, and we got to fix it. Mahsi.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister of NWT Housing Corp, did you want to respond?

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And my apologies, I'm not sure if I was supposed to inform you that I wanted to switch witnesses.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay. We haven't switched sections yet.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Okay, just in response to the MLA from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, it was just the appropriate witness to be responding. Is that all right? My apologies that I done that without getting the approval first.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

If you want to get your president to respond, or you? I mean, this is the last speaker on this section, so.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Because I switched out the witnesses without letting you know. Just that I really like those comments coming from the MLA.

And looking at our Indigenous partnerships, you know, for the territories, we have made significant progress within the last two years of this government and looking at creating the -- and working with the Council of Leaders and looking at our policy review and the renewal coming forward. And really highlighting the work that's being done on the co-investment fund, that we've had a large number of submissions that have come forward which gives us the opportunity to be working with those Indigenous groups directly.

There has been a number of announcements that have been made by the federal government to directly fund the Indigenous groups, and our messaging to Canada was if you don't want to -- if we're not going to be receiving the funding directly to the Northwest Territories, then fund the Indigenous groups and we'll work together; we'll work in partnership with them. And so far, we have been able to also address the partnerships in the communities looking at homelessness, looking at our Northern Pathways program and what is that we can offer.

But specifically for the Member's riding, the Housing Corporation is open to be an invitation to coming into that community. What is that needs to be done? If it's home repair, then we do have a community housing initiative that we can start working with the Indigenous groups there as well. If we're looking at housing repair and our policies are a barrier, that is exactly what that program is for. If we could directly fund the community and they can provide those services on our behalf, I'm absolutely open to that. But for further elaboration and our commitment and our relationship building, I will turn it over to associate deputy minister Jamie Fulford. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. -- sorry, I didn't get the last name.

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Fulford

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to add to what the Minister has said there, the renewal strategy of the corporation that was released in the fall places a specific emphasis on collaborating with Indigenous governments and also addressing that perception that in the past it might have looked like we were in competition with Indigenous governments, particularly for federal funding. It's also a matter that we've raised with our federal partners so that they design their programs in a way that doesn't pit NWT governments against each other.

Another key development from June of last year was the inaugural meeting of the Council of Leaders and the striking of Council of Leaders housing working group. There, we're able to talk about our policies and programming, and we've initiated that step of reviewing those policies and programming with the Council of Leaders working group. So they have direct input on whether we -- whether our programs are a good fit with what their goals are.

And finally, I'd just like to make the point that this government has made a point of supporting direct funding to Indigenous governments. It's not something that certainly the Housing Corporation stands in the way of. We know that we're not -- we're not the only game in town and that Indigenous governments are well positioned to support their own interests. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. All right, so if there are no further questions, we will move to the executive beginning on page 380, with information items on 381. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I see there's one additional position in the executive. Can the minister explain what that position is?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have president Young respond. I'm not on that section; I'm just trying to find my page here. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I can say he just walked out the door. It is our associate deputy minister who has joined us on a term to support the renewal and federal engagement, and he's joined us last May. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River -- Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding of how the government works is assistant deputy ministers are essentially in charge of operations of a department, and I know the Housing Corp's a little different, and then associate deputy ministers are usually deputy ministers in waiting or on terms to eventually take over. Is that kind of the thought with this position, that the associate deputy minister may one day be the president, or is he just here for a term for the sake of the renewal? Can I just get some clarification on -- really, I don't understand "assistant" and "associate" partially. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, member. I will give this to the Honourable Premier.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually I appointed that position directly because I wanted a total policy review of the Housing Corporation. So that person is responsible for doing the policy review with the Indigenous governments at the Council of Leaders table so that all of the policies within housing will be done, reviewed, and hopefully changed within the term of this government. So it was an appointment from myself. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would like to thank the Premier for that answer. I think that that's great. I think it's great to have a senior person leading, you know, what is a very important renewal, and I look forward to the results of that.

I guess I have some questions a bit about where we think this renewal is going. I know we got the new statement and vision today. And I think the way I would frame the long-standing tension in the Housing Corporation is whether it is a social envelope department or whether it should be a corporation that is solely focused on assets and infrastructure. And I'll note this has led to some weird situations where a lot of our shelter money is in health, and then the other half is in housing. Sometimes there's a distinction made between day and night shelters, but that has even been blurred. Most of the shelters in Yellowknife are predominantly funded by health in a lot of cases.

So I'm just wondering if part of that conversation is perhaps bringing in some more homelessness experts and bringing in some of that perhaps shelter money and positions from health, if that's on the table. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. For further description and response, I'll have president Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And with the division mission document that was released yesterday, I hope that folks do see a shift in thinking towards the more social aspect of the Housing Corporation, that we're not just bricks and mortar but that we are a program department.

With regards to the homelessness conversation, as noted there's been a lot of confusion. It is something that straddles at least three departments, if not more. And we hope to be bringing forward a strategic approach to that in the next matter of time here that will talk about how to bring those things where there is consistency and approach, consistency in the way that we fund and -- our support. I mentioned earlier things like operating guidelines, training. Those are things that we've heard across the board that we need to work better at across departments to support the vulnerable population team. So that is what we're working with our sister departments on at the moment. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm very happy to see that, and that work excites me. I think as part of that work, I'm wondering if the department will do some evaluation of shelter costs versus housing costs. I think it's well established that shelters are extremely expensive and, you know, one GNWT staff person who we -- when we create a shelter could actually just pay for six people to be housed. And I think when it's coming out of different departments, perhaps that analysis is not being done, and I think perhaps some of our shelters, although, you know, we need them until one day perhaps we end homelessness, the budgets haven't been looked through seriously to know whether they could actually just in fact be ending homelessness through a housing-first model. And so I'm wondering if as part of this work, we can create some sort of policy to know when shelter costs have just surpassed the point where it's ridiculous; they are not, in fact, housing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have president Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And yes, I think that work is part of the planning. We do need to build in evaluation regardless of what direction this goes. But we do need to understand who our clientele are, whether sheltering is the appropriate model or whether there's other model that we would be -- should be looking at for certain sectors of the population and be looking at what is the best way to support those folks. Is it shelters; is it perhaps more of an adult group home model? You know, there's lots of ideas out there. But we do need to understand -- I think the first part is to understand what we've got now and what we're serving and then figure out the go-forward. But that is part of the conversation that we're having, yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. We're on the executive portion, and I guess this is where the leadership for the Housing Corp is, and the buck stops here.

I'd like to know how forced growth is considered by the Housing Corporation and its operations and, you know, how that figures into submissions to the Financial Management Board or whatever. So how is forced growth factor into what we're seeing here? Thanks.

And the reason why I raise that is the inflation rate in Canada and Northwest Territories is probably around 5 percent. And I just don't see that being added to any part of this budget. So I'd like to get a response. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have vice president Jim Martin respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Housing Corporation, as with other departments, participates in the annual business planning process with the government and as part of that process, there is an opportunity to bring forward forced growth submissions, which is essentially areas which are beyond our control to manage, basically.

So for the 2022-2023 Main Estimates, we received incremental funding support from the GNWT for property taxes, which is reflected in the 2022-2023 Main Estimates. And that was associated with uncontrollable mill rate changes and assessments of properties. So that's just an example, but. But that is the process we follow. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks for the information. Can I get a list, then, of the forced growth parts of the NWT Housing Corporation budget for 2022-2023? A list of the forced growth additions. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have that at my fingertips. I'll have vice president Jim Martin respond. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. There was two areas within our main estimates for 2022-2023 that we received forced growth funding for.

In 2022-2023, the first area was the property taxes; the area that I mentioned. And the second area was the -- related to the incremental costs that would be associated with an expansion of the public housing program. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks, Madam Chair. Okay, it's going to be -- I'm trying to be diplomatic here. This is nothing against the staff for the Housing Corporation who are working very hard and I get a sense that we're on the verge of making some fundamental change. But I just don't understand what the problem is in getting more money into the Housing Corporation. I've been here for six years, and it just doesn't happen. I don't understand whether the Housing Corp actually puts together submissions to the Financial Management Board and Cabinet for more money for housing, or if they get denied. I just don't understand why we're not getting more money for housing.

Clearly, this is a priority for all of the MLAs, and we just don't see any growth.

The regular MLAs, we had to fight very hard to get, you know, one-time increases of $5 million a couple years for the Housing Corporation. You know, earlier, Madam Chair, you said, ask us for more money and we're going to get it for you, or we'll approve it. So what is the problem in getting more money for the Housing Corporation as a GNWT contribution? I just don't understand it, and I'd like an answer. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 3540

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, you know, I kind of was asked a similar question earlier today, and in respect to the other government departments that we do have when we are allocated funding for the Northwest Territories, that to be the fairness and consistency throughout other programs and services that are provided. There is a process that we do have to go through. And putting in those submissions, we do have the opportunity to put those forward to FMB and be requesting funding. But we also have a number of programs and services and projects that are leading in the Northwest Territories, and we just have a limited amount of funding that we do work with. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair, and I appreciate that coming from the Minister responsible, but my interpretation of that is that the Minister needs to be fighting very hard and working with her colleagues in Cabinet to get more money for housing. And I just don't know what to do anymore because as a Regular MLA for six years, I've asked for more money for housing every time and nothing seems to happen. I'm just about ready to give up here.

I agree with my colleague behind me from Yellowknife North that maybe we need at least $20 million more. I've been pushing for a plan to get us out of core need for probably four or five years. I think we're supposed to get that sometime soon. But I just don't understand why Cabinet is not directing more money into housing. Our own contributions.

You know, we got to stop blaming the feds. We got to stop blaming everybody else. If this is a priority with this government, we need to be spending more money on housing. And I'd like to hear from the Minister about that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 3540

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I know -- I hear the Member's frustration, and it is frustrating as well too with the number of concerns we have throughout the Northwest Territories and looking at our response and our program delivery. But right now, the federal government is key for us. And I just -- we just got over a COVID response, you know, and looking at those further expenditures as well too that were just unforeseen, that we have felt it in the Housing Corporation as well. And also looking at the co-investment funding that was provided to the corporation over five years of $5 million annually. And the corporation does try to be very strategic with the funding that we have received. You know, I am pressing my colleagues but like I had said, we have such a huge response within the time of this government and I want to just -- for myself, just point blank, that COVID has really set us off into a different area of further expenditures that we, you know, had to endure over this -- over this time. But I will have -- like, I'll have president Young respond as well too because we just have a limited amount of funding, houses to put on the ground. We're able to get the 90-unit delivery, and the Indigenous groups are getting a fair amount as well but it's not coming to the territorial government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I'm Noting the clock, committee members. I will now rise and report progress.

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

May I please have the report of Committee of the Whole. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

February 25th

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Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 23, Bill 29, Bill 38, and Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023, and would like to report progress. And Mr. Speaker, I move that the Report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

February 25th

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Do I have a seconder? Member for Great Slave. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Orders of the day, Madam Clerk.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

February 25th

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

DEPUTY CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Ms. Kim Wickens) [Translation]

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  6. Replies to Budget Address (Day 5 of 7)
  7. Acknowledgements
  8. Oral Questions
  9. Written Questions
  10. Returns to Written Questions
  11. Replies to Commissioner's Address
  12. Petitions
  13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  14. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  15. Tabling of Documents
  16. Notices of Motion
  17. Motions
  • Motion 49-19(2): Referral of Minister's Statement 202-19(2) and Tabled Document 567-19(2) to Committee of the Whole
  1. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  2. First Reading of Bills
  3. Second Reading of Bills
  4. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  • Bill 23 - An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act
  • Bill 29 - Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act
  • Bill 38 - Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2021
  • Tabled Document 561-19(2): 2022-2023 Main Estimates
  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills
  3. Orders of the Day

[Translation Ends]

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

February 25th

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

This House stands adjourned until Monday, February 28th, 2022, at 1:30 p.m. Have a good weekend

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 2:05 p.m.