This is page numbers 4449 - 4496 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Diane Archie, Hon. Frederick Blake Jr., Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Mr. Edjericon, Hon. Julie Green, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Nokleby, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Semmler, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Mr. Rocky Simpson, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek, Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong.

The House met at 1:35 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 4449

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Lands.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide an update on the Department of Lands' progress related to enhancing transparency and client experience for residents of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Lands is an active member in the Government of the Northwest Territories Open Data Initiative, which aims to increase government transparency and accountability by proactively making data available to the public, while respecting our privacy, security, and legal obligations.

In support of this initiative, the Department recently expanded the information and data related to land administration that is available to the public on our web-based mapping tool. As of March 7th, 2022, additional non-personal information on disposition term length, effective date, and specific land-use type was published on the Administration of the Territorial Land Acts System, commonly referred to as ATLAS. This enhanced information will help viewers better understand the activities and uses of public land.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT's evaluation policy states that the government will implement program evaluation practices to ensure program performance is measurable and informs sound resource allocation decisions.

In support of this policy, the department has established a performance and evaluation committee to enhance our performance measures process with the goal of improving departmental performance.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to share that the department has developed and evaluated draft client service standards in response to feedback from our clients and stakeholders. The standards were initially developed, and the department piloted them prior to moving forward. The standards are being finalized before being posted to the department's website, which is anticipated later this month.

Client service standards are designed to increase transparency, predictability, and public understanding of both; the steps required to complete land transactions and the timelines for services. The timelines are an important inclusion as they provide clients with a commitment for engagement with the department.

The department plans to regularly review and improve our client service standard with intent to provide more information online and in-person for the clients.

The department will also track progress through performance measures reporting in our annual business plan.

Mr. Speaker, enhancing transparency and client experience is a process. The department is committed to improve services for the residents of the Northwest Territories and will continue to conduct business in a transparent and accountable manner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, June is Senior Citizens Month, a time for us to acknowledge and celebrate the important role seniors have in our families and communities.

Seniors teach us about culture, tradition, and history. Their wisdom is integral to making wise decisions that will impact the future of generations of Northerners.

This Legislative Assembly has made a commitment to enable seniors to age in place, with dignity. The Department of Health and Social Services is working with Housing NWT and the Departments of Municipal and Community Affairs, along with Education, Culture and Employment, to ensure that seniors may live longer and healthier lives wherever they live now.

Mr. Speaker, these departments are working together to increase supports for seniors to make it easier for them to stay in their home community and in their own home if that's their choice. Funding is being provided to enhance inclusion and safety and remove community-level barriers to aging in place, along with initiatives to protect seniors from abuse.

Mr. Speaker, senior abuse and neglect are very serious concerns for this government. One of the challenges we face is the underreporting of abuse, making it difficult to get a complete picture of the problem. This issue is not unique to the North, or even to Canada.

June 15th is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. It is an official United Nations International Day acknowledging the significance of elder abuse as a public health and human rights issue around the world. Ministers Responsible for Seniors across Canada recognize the seriousness of this issue and collaborate at the federal, provincial, and territorial table to discuss it.

Mr. Speaker, a cross-jurisdictional work plan includes projects that identify gaps, challenges, as well as policy and program options to address financial and non-financial abuse of seniors. The GNWT is actively participating in this work and will implement the regulatory and service delivery changes required to protect seniors.

We are also working with our partners to launch a public awareness campaign focused on senior abuse, and to provide training to GNWT staff that teaches them how to identify signs of abuse.

The GNWT works closely with the NWT Seniors Society to support organizations, communities, families, and individuals confronted with senior abuse. They operate a 1-800 phone line to offer information, referrals, and support to seniors and their families. Questions about senior abuse account for about 20 percent of all the calls they received in the last fiscal year, so this is an important issue in NWT communities.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT Seniors Society also delivers the Creating Safe Communities for Older Adults workshop to communities that want to increase awareness of abuse of older adults, learn how to identify the abuse, and take action.

Individuals experiencing abuse can reach out to the RCMP, call Alison McAteer House toll free, contact the five family violence shelters, or connect with a health and social service provider in their community for support to discuss next steps they can take to protect themselves.

Mental health supports such as community counsellors, the NWT Help Line, as well as various online resources are available to those who are affected by senior abuse, Mr. Speaker. I encourage anyone who wants to know more to reach out to the NWT Seniors Society or visit their website.

Enabling seniors to age in place requires an effort at the territorial level, at the community level, and within NWT families. Over the next few months, NWT residents, Indigenous and community governments, and stakeholder organizations, will have the opportunity to participate in community-based in-person and virtual engagement sessions, as well to complete an online survey to inform the work the GNWT is doing to enable more seniors to age in place no matter where they live in the Northwest Territories. And that survey is available at health centres and from the NWT Seniors Society in paper form.

Mr. Speaker, throughout the month of June, I encourage you to take a moment to honour the seniors in your life and in your community and remember that all seniors have the right to choose their own lifestyle, express themselves in their own language, and enjoy the same privileges granted to all residents of the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Housing NWT.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, since becoming the Minister responsible for Housing NWT, I have repeatedly spoken on the theme of partnership. This is because the Northwest Territories is in a housing crisis that cannot be solved by any one government alone.

Mr. Speaker, it is crucial that Housing NWT works with Indigenous governments to increase affordable housing for residents, providing training opportunities, and supports the housing goals of Indigenous governments and communities while maximizing local economic activity.

Last fall, as part of our renewal strategy, Housing NWT committed to strengthening its partnerships with the Indigenous governments of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that Housing NWT is making progress on that. Housing NWT has recently signed a memorandum of understanding on housing with the Tlicho government. This provides a framework for intergovernmental cooperation on housing-related matters, including discussions on coordinated program delivery in the Tlicho communities. Working with the existing intergovernmental memorandum of understanding with the Tlicho government, this memorandum of understanding on housing demonstrates Housing Northwest Territories' commitment to strengthening this important relationship and to ensure that our cooperation will endure far into the future.

Mr. Speaker, stronger cooperation between the two governments has the potential to positively impact the day-to-day lives of the Tlicho citizens and the public, and to help us focus and maximize our collective efforts on housing.

Despite the promise of progress in the memorandum of understanding, there is still much more work to be done. Guided by the MOU, Housing NWT will work with the Tlicho government on providing effective housing supports for people most in need.

Mr. Speaker, while we may not always be able to agree, I want to express with this relationship, based on trust, recognition, and mutual respect, we will overcome any challenges. We will be better, we will do better to maximize our collective efforts for people we serve. I look forward to jointly working together and continuing to make this progress on matters of importance to both the GNWT and the Tlicho government.

In closing Mr. Speaker, mahsi to the Tlicho government for working with us to set a new model for housing success in the Northwest Territories. I also want to thank the staff of Housing NWT for making this a priority and putting their efforts forward. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement today is a little bit different. To begin my statement today, I want to share a quote from Gandhi when he described our modern western society as one of wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without mortality, size without sacrifice, and politics without principle.

Mr. Speaker, for my Member's statement today, I want to talk about logical decision-making and logical thinking.

One of the biggest things that I have noticed since becoming an MLA is that every single decision that government makes needs to be backed up by frameworks, action plans, studies, and strategies. It is very clear to me that public government is nearly incapable of making seemingly easy decisions on about anything. There is much talk about doing things in the future because of the need to wait for further studies. However, that provides for a lack of action for long periods of time when logical decisions about things that have been studied to death can be put into action. This way of doing things wastes valuable time, money, and resources that can be put to better use and actually gets things done in a timely matter.

Mr. Speaker, this way of doing things would never be acceptable when running a business as the business would likely fall into deep deficit, eventually go bankrupt, and never be able to accomplish any of its core mandate actions. For private enterprise, as the saying goes, time is money, so logical decisions and logical thinking about known and established facts on various matters usually prevails. However, that same principle does not apply to public government as government bureaucrats are always trying to cover decisions that should be made with good leadership in a timely effective manner to make a difference for the people of the Northwest Territories. I seek unanimous consent to complete my statement, Mr. Speaker.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mr. Speaker, as the MLA for Thebacha, I am stressing that decisions should come from the heart. It should come from your knowledge of the subject. You should be passionate about the subject. And it should also accomplish positive changes. As leaders, we should also make sure that we are not making decisions that are not detrimental to the people of the Northwest Territories.

We need to learn to think outside of the box for the betterment of the people of the Northwest Territories. We must show strength and be proud of our decisions.

Many times I feel there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. The waters get muddy, and the whole idea of why we are here is sometimes being questioned by the people of the Northwest Territories.

So colleagues, think before you leap; think before you speak; think before you action; to make it easier for the people of the Northwest Territories to understand what we are doing here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Members' statements. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I am following up on my statement from last week on overpolicing and police brutality.

Since my last statement, several constituents have reached out to share their fears of the RCMP. Mr. Speaker, we should all be deeply troubled by this.

Mr. Speaker, Indigenous people face violence every day. This violence is rooted in colonization, residential school, the 60 Scoops, the Indian Act, and other racist policies aimed at assimilating Indigenous people.

Mr. Speaker, historically the RCMP was complicit in this violence. For example, many RCMP were involved in separating Indigenous children and youth from their families to attend residential schools. The policing of Indigenous children and youth began at a very young age. This is one reason why there is mistrust and fear of the RCMP.

Mr. Speaker, Indigenous women in the Northwest Territories and Canada face extraordinary rates of violence. In 2021, Statistics Canada revealed that six in ten Indigenous women report being physically or sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

These acts of violence are not separate from the colonial legacy of Canada. In fact, the colonial acts and policies I listed diminish Indigenous women. This has made them more susceptible to violence including violence from the RCMP. The RCMP's rough handling, harsh treatment, racist remarks, indifference, and cruelty towards Indigenous women is systemic discrimination and violence against Indigenous women. This is unacceptable.

For example, when charges are stayed against RCMP for police brutality, what message does this send to the Indigenous people, especially the Indigenous women? Mr. Speaker, can I have unanimous consent to conclude.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mr. Speaker, in 2019, the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls final report was released with Calls to Justice. From that report, calls for police services, 9.1, reads, "Acknowledge that the historical and current relationship between Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people in the justice system has been largely defined by colonialism, racism, bias, discrimination, and fundamental cultural and societal difference. Acknowledge that going forward this relationship must be based on respect and understanding and must be led by and in partnership with Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people."

Mr. Speaker, Indigenous people across the territory are ready for a healthy and positive relationship with the RCMP based on respect. Reconciliation with, and the safety of, Indigenous people requires we implement the MMIWG for justice.

I will have questions for the Minister of Justice. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the East Three Secondary graduates who will be having their ceremony on Saturday, June 4th, in Inuvik. I would also like to congratulate the post-secondary students that will be having their convocation on June 17th at the Inuvik campus. As well as all those students that have completed their post-secondary this year with all the challenges that they have had to do to complete their studies throughout the pandemic.

Mr. Speaker, graduating in the Northwest Territories is a great achievement for those who are able to do so.

According to statistics, from ECE's grad rate fact sheet stats in 2018, show that the NWT graduation rate is 61.3 percent. And when it is broken down by regional centres, small communities, and Yellowknife, the stats are as follows: regional centres are at the highest with 83.1 percent; small communities at 33.1 percent; Yellowknife at 71.4 percent.

When we dive deeper into who is graduating and break it down even further between Indigenous and non-Indigenous, the stats are no surprise to most of us sitting in this room.

In 2018, only 48.3 percent of the Indigenous students graduated compared to 77.9 of the non-Indigenous students, Mr. Speaker. This saddens me. Do you know why this saddens me, Mr. Speaker? It's because there are so many systemic barriers and challenges that Indigenous students face, especially in the smaller communities, as my colleagues from the small communities continue to remind us all, that prevents them from achieving graduation, like poverty, lack of food, lack of shelter, addictions that some of these family are challenged with. Attending school and getting to school is much lower on their priority.

Mr. Speaker, we talk about a representative workforce in the North, and I do as well, but we need to really fix the root causes as to why we don't have a representative workforce in the North. And that is why I stand in this House, as long as I am as an MLA, to raise the issues of these root causes, to get the attention they need for a better future for all of our residents, especially our Indigenous residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Members' statements. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what happens when a constituent finds him or herself with a disease that only one in a million people have? And then finds that disease is not on this government's antiquated list of specified disease conditions?

Mr. Speaker, I will speak about chronic recurrent multifocal osteomyelitis, also referred as a CRMO. It is an issue that I promised a constituent I would bring forward on his behalf.

CRMO is a disease that affects mostly children and adolescents but can affect any age. It results in inflammation in around the bones with symptoms of continuous pain, inflammation, abnormal bone growth, bone deformity, bone fractures, joint swelling, and fever. It affects the person to the point that he or she is unable to work or participate in activities many of us take for granted.

Mr. Speaker, of all of the diseases present in the world today, we only have 50 shown on our list of specified disease conditions. Again, what happens when you have a rare disease and that disease is not on this government's list of specified disease conditions?

The answer is simple.

If you have private health insurance, treatment and medication may be covered. If you're relying on this government's healthcare system for support, you are in fact on your own.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government has tasked this government with the responsibility and financial resources to provide healthcare to all residents of the Northwest Territories. What that means is we must do all we can to ensure residents have access to appropriate healthcare whether or not they can afford it. And in this instance, whether or not it is a disease that is not on this list of specified disease conditions.

Mr. Speaker, this government's Extended Health Benefits Policy, 49.07, states that government is committed to the realization and maintenance of health and well-being of the Northwest Territories residents. It also states that nothing in this policy shall in any way be construed to limit the prerogative of the Executive Council to make decisions or take action respecting extended health benefits outside the provisions of this policy.

Mr. Speaker, the second quote is particularly important as it is apparent the drafters of this policy anticipated that there would be instances where gaps would exist thus provided the Executive Council with the authority to address those gaps. As such, CRMO not being listed is an instance where a gap does exist. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, fixing an outdated policy is our responsibility. Providing healthcare is our responsibility. However, this government feels it would set a precedent and open the floodgate to others in similar circumstances. Making those debatable decisions in favour of our constituents are why we are here.

Mr. Speaker, the cost of helping this young man is approximately $20,000 per year. This will not cure the disease, but it would provide my constituent with quality of life, something we all take for granted.

Although the initial request on behalf of my constituent was denied, I would ask the Minister of Health to do the right thing and reverse her decision to provide the support that will improve this young man's quality of life, or at least place the matter before the Executive Council for their consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Child and Family Services Standards and Procedures Manual states the Northwest Territories Child and Family Services Act mandates the provision of protective and supportive services for children and families.

It goes on to state this mandate is the responsibility of the Department of Health and Social Services and regional health and social services authorities to jointly fulfill the obligations under the Child and Family Services Act.

Mr. Speaker, the main objective of the act is for the protection and well-being of children. It goes on to tell parents how to raise and handle their children free from abuse and harm and use of safe disciplinary methods.

Mr. Speaker, the document goes on to state that measures taken for the protection and well-being of children should, as far as possible, promote family and community integrity and continuity. It also suggests that communities should be encouraged to provide and develop their own child and family services but, I take it, within the rules of the Child and Family Services Act.

Mr. Speaker, there is perhaps a lot of education for parents and communities within the act which focuses on the protection of the children within the family unit. The problem with the Child and Family Services Act is that it is not front and center in our communities. Only when there are troubles for families that this act springs out of the dark and families are left scratching their heads wondering and realizing their worst nightmares, that their children are being taken away.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in every other jurisdiction in Canada, I can stand up in the House and ask a Minister what exemptions, what changes, and how the National Building Code applies in that jurisdiction - except the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker.

Right now, the answer to whether the National Building Code applies in the Northwest Territories is something like "part of it", "somewhere", "sometimes", Mr. Speaker. And we know this. We know this because we have sued ourselves over it, and we know this because there are numerous contractual disputes about when and how the code applies in this territory.

And, Mr. Speaker, there are many debates that need to be had by jurisdictions about what sections they want of the National Building Code. For example, the National Building Code is not only the standard. There's the Canada Safety Association Standard on Accessibility. Our Human Rights Commission has had multiple cases where they have said the National Building Code is not enough for accessibility. They have recommended that we implement higher accessibility standards in the Northwest Territories.

Additionally, Mr. Speaker, right now in BC or Alberta or Ontario or Quebec, I could build a 12-storey mass timber building. Mass timber is one of those areas that has exceeded beyond the current building code and is recognized as the more sustainable and cheaper option for northern building. But that would be illegal, presently, in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, there is a very large debate about what energy standards we want to adopt in the Northwest Territories. Right now, we haven't really adopted any. Perhaps we need northern specific sections for building on permafrost.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about single points of egress in four to six-storey buildings. I love single points of egress in four-storey buildings, Mr. Speaker. Ontario is looking how to adopt those because we recognize now that new buildings that are built with fire safety standards don't need a second stairwell. In fact, all that second stairwell is doing is driving up the cost of building and further increasing our housing crisis. Yet, Mr. Speaker, we can't have that conversation here because we do not have a Building Standards Act.

Mr. Speaker, the steps right now to get a building approved depend on which municipality you're in, and there are literally hundreds of steps and hundreds of points of approval across multiple jurisdictions.

I believe that implementing a Buildings Standards Act will pay for itself in streamlining the building process and it will help alleviate our housing crisis.

I'll have questions for the Minister of MACA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I will be speaking to suicide today. Before I start, I want to give people an opportunity to turn down the volume or remove themselves from the Chamber if they prefer not to listen.

Mr. Speaker, I like numbers because they compel evidence-based decision-making, so here are some numbers.

The World Health Organization estimates one person dies by suicide every 40 seconds. Over 4,000 Canadians die by suicide every year. That's 11 people every day. 70 percent of mental health problems arise during childhood or adolescence, and 75 percent of children with mental disorders do not have access to specialized treatment services. Indigenous youth are five to six times more likely to die by suicide than non-Indigenous youth. And suicide rates for Inuit youth are among the highest globally, at 11 times the national average.

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken in this House before about youth mental health emergencies. I explained that if a child broke their arm, they would be given an x-ray, a cast, pain medication, instructions for cast care, and told what to do if they need more support. But what happens when a child's injury is mental and not physical?

Through multiple anecdotes, I learned the typical emergency room response to a suicide attempt is to physically put the person back together and then request a call to the patient from the community counsellor. If it is a long weekend, that call is a minimum four days away, and the call back is the only support tool provided.

This is a gap, Mr. Speaker. Northerners need immediate aftercare in these traumatic moments.

The Health and Social Services mental health and addictions team brings together various support platforms, expertise, and grassroots funding, but these tools or programs are not communicated to Northerners in crisis mode. There is no space for designing safety plans or discussing next steps. The standard hospital emergent response to suicide attempts is not enough.

Mr. Speaker, many of our children are not okay. Suicide is a common conversation among youth across our territory and across demographics. In the NWT, roughly 160 to 180 people use hospital services every year following suicide attempts. Each of these instances are calls for help with the gift of a second chance.

If mental health is health, we need to ensure that mental health supports and immediate emergency aftercare is accessible at our hospitals and our health centres. We owe it to the people of the Northwest Territories not to waste these second chances. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. There are some issues that I would like to follow up on from the recent royal visit. My colleague from Yellowknife North started to raise some of these issues earlier in this sitting.

The first issue is the need for a new name for the territorial heritage centre and museum. I have raised this issue repeatedly, as has the Member for Yellowknife North in this sitting. I was very pleased to hear the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment say basically, on May 27th, that the only obstacle to renaming the museum is political inertia as there is no requirement or need for royal approval.

Here's a concrete step that our government can easily take towards reconciliation - rename our territorial museum.

The Member for Yellowknife North has also raised the need to rename some other places in the Northwest Territories to stop commemorating our colonial and racist roots. I support that call, which is also consistent with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Article 13 says that Indigenous peoples have the right to "designate and retain their own names for communities, places and persons" and "states shall take effective measures to ensure that this right is protected."

Clearly GNWT has some unfulfilled obligations in this regard, and I will ask the Minister how this right will be implemented here. I am hoping that the Special Committee on Reconciliation and Indigenous Affairs will also take note of this issue and address it in their final report.

The other museum issue that I want to raise is permitted uses of the museum.

During the recent royal visit to the museum, there was a display of some Inuit traditional heritage items, including a stone lamp, or qulliq. Unfortunately, a current direction from the museum appears to preclude the lighting of the lamp. It's my understanding that a lighted qulliq has been allowed before within the museum without any adverse impacts so it's not clear why there is a new policy or direction.

I will have questions later today for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment on how we can fulfill our UNDRIP obligations with regard to place naming and also ensure that the museum supports culturally significant practices. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Members' statements. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This week, the Auditor General of Canada's report on addictions prevention and recovery services in the Northwest Territories was tabled in this House. Portions of the report speak of equitable access to supports as well as the need for culturally safe services. The auditor general reports that aftercare is limited or non-existent, and there are little to no formalized processes or communications to clients on other supports available to them, including from Health Canada.

Prevention. I've heard from several residents that they often cannot reach the Primary Health Clinic or obtain an appointment, with many people lacking a permanent family doctor. Primary care can be the first point of contact for someone trying to get help or resources for mental health or medical issues that may lead to addiction and/or relapse.

Immediate access to top quality medical care is crucial if we want to deal with our addictions issue. Adjustments to the current system for accessing healthcare and trauma counselling need to change. Some of this work has been started but it's clearly not enough as the mental health crisis looms on.

Recovery. People faced with addictions are often under-housed or homeless. Ensuring adequate housing and safe spaces is crucial to mental health and addiction prevention and recovery. The Departments of Health and Social Services and Housing must collaborate with Indigenous governments and communities to establish aftercare services and sober housing so people can continue their recovery in their home communities in a safe environment.

Furthermore, these spaces need to be in good repair, and there must be 24-hour supports in place to help those recovering in their journey.

Mr. Speaker, when reviewing the report, the biggest thing that jumps out to me is the lack of data collection and measurable outcomes on addictions in the NWT. Both the Department of Health and Social Services and the health authorities have failed to collect or analyze targeted data; data that could have been used to identify trends and provide information to support action to improve outcomes for Northerners.

Mr. Speaker it has been 20 years since the Department of Health committed to better coordinate the health and social services system to improve residents' access to services. And 20 years later, it appears nothing has changed. This government needs to develop concrete, actionable plans that lead to better outcomes. They need to build sober houses and hire respected elders and community members to provide supports in communities. Mr. Speaker, i seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

They need to build sober houses and hire respected elders and community members to provide sober supports in communities.

The ability to detox and recover in an environment that is safe and supportive is the right of all of our people, and the GNWT has failed to provide this. How can we say we are truly intent on reconciliation when we fail to see our people crying for help? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about mental health challenges in communities that I represent.

Recently, I have learned of several major -- sorry, there are several very serious medical incidents arising from chronic mental health conditions in my constituent communities. These tragic circumstances have serious impacts on the community that extend beyond one individual.

Our Indigenous people, our communities, are tight-knit and compassionate. We support each other through the best and worst times. We also suffer together. The legacy of colonialism and genocide have left our people deep psychological scars. The (audio) of general trauma continues to (audio) Indigenous people in the Northwest Territories, leading to depression, anger and violence, and suicide.

Mr. Speaker, I received a call from a council Member in one my communities I represent and was very distressed to learn it was about a young woman who was suicidal. This young woman had sadly attempted suicide by hanging herself but was thankfully seen by friends and family who brought her to the health centre to be assessed and hoped to see her admitted to the psych ward in Yellowknife.

The nursing staff kept her for a short time then released her with Tylenol pills. Even the RCMP were unwilling to have the young woman apprehended and admitted to the hospital, something made possible through the Mental Health Act.

This sorry episode is both moving and disheartening. The tremendous compassion and conviction of the young woman and family is inspiring, just the lack of care available in the community is heartbreaking.

Mr. Speaker, we know from the Offices of the Auditor General of Canada that the government is not doing enough to treat and prevent addictions. This is particularly true in respect to our small communities. I will quote from the report.

We were also concerned by the lack of coordination needed to connect clients with services that required (audio) though it's been 20 years since the department committed to better help coordinate the health and social service system to improve residents' access to services. The department and health authorities need to do more to deliver on their commitments to provide equitable, culturally-safe programs to help people impacted by addictions and access the care they need for their own well-being and that of their own communities.

Mr. Speaker, who is responsible for the safety of the individual who is a threat to themselves and others. Surely it's not the distressed family (audio) medical and police professionals for help. We can do better.

In that precious time, in that precious lives have been lost already, and my constituents cannot bear seeing any more of their sons and daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers, consumed by the darkness of despair and suicide. It's time to take a serious look at the healthcare and mental health support in small communities and make this a real priority for the government and future governments.

I will questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Members' statements. Member for Sahtu.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, in February of this year, Ms. Sierra McDonald wrote all MLAs of the Legislative Assembly and acknowledging the need for a treatment centre and addictions support. Since my time in this government, I have seen and heard constant advocation on this issue. And I am pleased to see the progress as we start to make movement within our healthcare approach of new positions, workshops, and fundings for small communities and Indigenous governments to engage and support their efforts in addressing these important issues, trauma addiction and healing.

Mr. Speaker, Ms. Sierra McDonald is here with us today, along with her grandmother, Ms. Mary Jane McDonald. Sierra will be graduating this year and will be attending Concordia University in Quebec and will be pursuing her education in political science. She will also be attending the World Youth Summit on Monday in Saskatchewan.

It is great to see our young people pursuing their dreams and aspirations. And who knows what this future may bring? You may see in the coming years MLA McDonald, Premier McDonald, Minister McDonald - we don't know. But you make our future look bright.

Thank you, Sierra, and thank you to her grandmother for being in attendance. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Acknowledgements. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in December of 2020 we all received an email from a young lady, and she's in the audience. That young lady was Sierra McDonald from Norman Wells.

At the time she was a grade 11 student and was attending the FOXY Peer Leader Retreat, and she sent us an email as part of that program. And in that email, she posed four questions basically on treatment centres and why they are needed in the NWT. And it's an issue that we all struggle with. And my understanding, as Minister Chinna said, is that Ms. McDonald is off to university in the fall, and I wish her all the best in her studies. And I ask that she keep in touch with all of us because I think one day she'll be sitting in here, and Ms. Chinna's probably hoping it's not her seat, but.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

I'd like to welcome everyone, and it's always good to have an audience with us. Mahsi. Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these questions are for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier confirm how, in the Extended Health Benefits Policy 49.07, a disease condition makes it on the list of specified disease conditions? How often is this list updated and what consideration is given to those diseases that are rare such as chronic recurrent multifocal osteomyelitis? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Although I heard three questions in there, I think all of them belong to the Minister of Health. I'd like to defer it to the Minister of Health. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for Hay River South for the question.

I want to start by saying this isn't the appropriate forum to discuss specific cases or conditions. It's important that we respect the right of patients to their health information.

That said, on the general topic of the specified conditions, the list, which has 58 conditions on it, was inherited from the federal government when we took responsibility in this area in 1988. Some conditions were added in 2011 through the medical director of the time.

The specified disease list is now the subject of a review by the Department of Health and Social Services. There will be public consultation in the summer, and we expect to have a new draft policy available for review by next spring. The purpose of redrafting the policy is that listing conditions is not a very efficient way of dealing with need for extra help with things like prescription drugs. It would be better to look at income and means testing to see what people have for personal resources and what they need in order to pay for the help they need through their specified conditions. Thank you.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier confirm how constituents with diseases not currently listed on the specified disease conditions list are accommodated when it comes to provision of treatment and medication?

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, medical treatment, as the Member knows, is an insured service under the NWT Health Plan. So anyone with appear at any of the health centres, or at Stanton, and expect to receive a diagnosis and treatment for the condition that they are presenting with. That said, we do not cover drugs on a universal basis. There is no universal PharmaCare here or anywhere else in the country at this point.

There is an understanding at our level, and at the federal level, that there is a need to develop a strategy around specified -- not specified diseases but extraordinary drug costs because what we're finding is there are more of these one in a million cases of disease, and often the treatments are extremely expensive. So there is an acknowledgement that this is a potential problem, and a remedy is in the works. Thank you.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier confirm what is the role of her department when it comes to persons who are indigent and without the financial resources to acquire treatment or drugs for a rare disease such as chronic recurrent multifocal osteomyelitis? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. This answer really turns on the personal resources of the person. In some cases people may be able to access health benefits through their work or through their parents work if they're dependent children. It may be possible if they're seniors. It is possible for them to access support from the GNWT. Likewise people who qualify for Metis health benefits can have their drugs covered and those with the specified conditions.

After that, it may be possible for a person to apply for private health insurance. It may also be possible for a person to apply for income assistance and for a disability benefit if their disease prevents them from working. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my constituent exhausted all other avenues for assistance in covering treatment costs and now looks to this government as his last hope.

Mr. Speaker, clause 8 of the Extended Health Benefits Policy 49.07 states that nothing in this policy shall in any way be construed to limit the prerogative of the Executive Council to make decisions or take action respecting extended health benefits outside the provisions of this policy.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier confirm the purpose or intent of that clause, and does the Premier see it as a drafter's intent to address policy gaps? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you. Respectfully, Mr. Speaker, it's usually the Premier that would speak on Executive Council issues. So if you're all right, I'll take that question.

So the purpose of the provision in all -- actually in all policies in the GNWT are similar to that stating that the Executive Council, nothing in the policy shall in any way construe the limits or the prerogative of the Executive Council to make decisions to take action respecting a lot of policies.

And the reason is for that is because although Ministers have specific departments, it's the Executive Council, as a whole, that is responsible for the operations of the government. However, in saying that, we don't get into every single department. That's why we have departments and specific ministers for that.

However, the other thing that's important to say as well is that the matters that are put before the Executive Council themselves are subject to privilege. So I can't publicly actually talk to -- commit to whether -- to the Member publicly whether this would come to the Executive or not.

But I do want to say that we do recognize that there's issues with this policy, and I think that the Minister recognizes that as well, and that's why she is looking to do a review of the Extended Health Benefits Policy that's underway now.

I also heard -- I've had personal conversations with the Member as well, Mr. Speaker, and I also can say that, you know, it's heartbreaking to hear when people fall through gaps, and none of us want to see that. But with the Minister with her work on the extended health policy. And also Canada, there's a national pharmacy program -- care program that they're talking about as well.

So based on my conversations with the Member, Mr. Speaker, I will make sure that I bring this conversation up with my conversations with federal ministers, to the prime minister, and see how their PharmaCare program can actually interact with our own policies around healthcare. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are related to my Member's statement on the Child and Family Services Act.

I note the intentions of the act are to prevent child abuse within a family unit with the needed education of families to comply with this act. Education First Nations of the act is a win-win for the intent of the act.

Can the Minister advise if the education and awareness of this act has been made to First Nations organizations and has the department advised the organizations at a duly convened meetings of all the regional assemblies. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the Member for Deh Cho for the question.

Just by way of background, the Child and Family Services Act came into force in 1998, and it has a provision to be reviewed every five years, and it is being reviewed this year.

The purpose of the act is, and will continue to be, to ensure that the best interests of the child are taken care of. What has changed is that there is more of a focus now on prevention rather than protection. So protection is still present, but prevention needs to be exhausted first.

So there are opportunities for counselling, parenting programs, services to improve housing, treatment if that's required, and any other service that may be helpful to the family to address the issues that they are having and to keep them together, to keep them whole as a family unit.

The act recognizes that the best place for a child is in the family home. And the reason to take the child out of that home is only because they are not safe in that home.

So using this new approach, we have been able to ensure that 92 percent of children who received child and family services are in their own home or in their home communities.

So the practice of taking children out of their communities and cultures is something that we're moving beyond in this era of reconciliation. Thank you.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, and mahsi to the Minister for what not answering my original question. But I appreciate her review of it and the fact that it's more on prevention.

Mr. Speaker, an act as such can lead to criminal charges to a family member depending on the seriousness of child discipline. This act has far reaching implications and presence including in the schools, which parents aren't aware of.

My question to the Minister is when are the communities going to be made aware of this act that will and can affect their families? Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, this act has been in force for 25 years. And so child protection workers, social workers, have been using this legislation for 25 years. So it's not new.

In the time that I've been Minister and we've started this review of the Child and Family Services Act, I've been in frequent contact with Indigenous governments to ask for their feedback on what they would want to change in this act since we have an opportunity to make changes in this Assembly.

So I'm not sure what the Member has in mind by "making parents aware." If he has a specific case he would like me to look into, then I would encourage him to contact me privately about that. Thank you.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I think what I've been alluding to in my first two questions here is whether communities are even aware of this act. Because I come from a small community. We never hear of the Child and Family Services Act in our communities, let alone the First Nations organizations who are accountable to their members and also all the regional First Nations organizations that I speak to, and they said they never hear of the act or anybody ever approaching their assemblies or meetings to make them aware that there is such an act in place.

And as the Minister alluded, I guess the act has been in existence for some time now. The Department of Health and Social Services has staff on the ground in the communities enforcing this act, but they're not going to our community leadership or the meetings or attending any of our functions.

Can the Minister advise if there are staff in many or all of the communities in the North? Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member was not a Member in 2018 when the OAG reviewed the provision of child and family services. But that was a very distressing report, showing significant gaps in the provision of child and family services. The result was an investment of 57 new positions in child and family services across the NWT since 2018.

So I can say that there are, for example, two social workers in Fort Providence. Most communities have resident social workers. Some of the smaller communities are served from regional offices.

The other big thing that's happened is that the federal government passed Bill C92 which enables Indigenous governments to create their own child and family services law. We've had a number of inquiries about this act from Indigenous groups in the NWT. And the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation has already written its law and we are now in negotiations with them on a coordination agreement where we will provide services according to their law.

So I'm a little puzzled by the Member's insistence that nobody knows about this act. But I want to assure him that this is a topic of conversation in bilaterals and at Indigenous government tables often and that there is an opportunity now for Indigenous governments to take control in this area. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, and mahsi to the Minister for her answer. When I asked questions of lots of my leadership, you know, they'd never heard of the CFS act. The only ones that know about it are the affected families who have been approached and their kids been taken away and then given back to them.

Mr. Speaker, I've been made aware that the CFS staff in Fort Providence will be moved out of the local health centre. I'm aware that they currently have two offices in the building. I see from the supplementary estimates that they will be moved into new leased space within the community.

Can the Minister advise why they need to move the two staff into another leased space when they have adequate office space in the current building? Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a situation where the health centre simply isn't big enough to hold all the staff. I said two social workers. There's actually three social workers, a social work supervisor, and two and a half healthy family workers as well as one family preservation worker. So that's a total of 6.5 full-time equivalent positions providing social services in Fort Providence, and there simply isn't enough room in the health centre. And so they are going to move that staff group into another location. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. The Minister said the only thing holding us back from renaming the territorial museum is ourselves. I'd like -- would like to establish what the position of Cabinet is on this issue and what, if any, priority it may have.

Can the Minister tell us whether this government supports and takes responsibility for giving the territorial museum a more regionally and culturally appropriate name within a reasonable timeframe; say, perhaps my lifetime. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can't bind future governments but I'm confident that we will see a name change in the Member's lifetime. I wish the Member a very long life. But the plan has been to -- as the Member knows, we are working to address some of the infrastructure issues at the museum, some type of retrofit, perhaps a new governance model, and tied in with that would be a name change. Instead of just slapping a new name on an old building, we want to package it all together so it is a new -- there's a sense of renewal associated with it so it's not just we're doing it for the sake of doing it. We're doing it as well in conjunction with significant other changes. Thank you.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that, and I hope to be present during the renaming ceremony whenever it takes place.

I have to confess to the Minister, I like to hang out at the museum in the archives. He probably knows that.

When I first arrived in Yellowknife in 1985 and visited the museum, there was a full-time toponymist with a dedicated office and workspace. That's somebody who studies place names. It's not clear to me that we have the same resources dedicated to this important function.

Given UNDRIP article 13 and our government's commitment to implementation, can the Minister tell us how we can fulfill our place naming obligations? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And there is still a full-time toponymist which is now known as a cultural places officer, and that was renamed about ten years ago, so still 30 years after the Member first arrived here. And then that position does all of the naming work that the Member is talking about. And it is a busy office.

There have been hundreds of name changes and new names made official in the last number of years, and currently there are 424 new and replacement names that have been submitted by the Lutselk'e Dene First Nation, and 13 Indigenous place names in the Naats'ihch'oh National Park Reserve, and we are working to make those name changes happen. So I would say we're one of the leaders when it comes to indigenizing names in the territory, rather making sure their actual names are official names. Thank you.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. Yes, and I too fully recognize the work that's being done by Indigenous governments and organizations, like the Gwich'in Social and Cultural Institute. They've done a lot of work on place names.

But I think that we need a concerted effort and a program to fully recognize and change colonial and racist place names here in the Northwest Territories. It's not clear, you know, whether we actually have such a program ourselves. So I want to ask the Minister whether he intends to fully implement UNDRIP article 13 and whether any additional resources are needed. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No additional resources are needed. We are making our way through hundreds of names, as I mentioned. And we are fully staffed. I know that the Government of Nunavut has had some staffing issues with that toponymist position, but luckily we've been able to maintain staff and are making our way through that.

We do have a geographical and community names policy of the Executive Council, and that guides how communities and geographical features are renamed. And I don't think that there's any sort of, you know, policy adjustments required, any sort of additional resources required. What we need is community engagement and communities to bring forward these needs. It's not up to the GNWT to say what a particular place should be named. It's up to the communities, and the communities have been bringing forward those names by the dozen. And we have been making those changes as they're brought forward. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. Lastly, I just wanted to follow up on how our territorial museum can better support important cultural practices like the lighting of an Inuit qulliq.

Can the Minister explain whether lighted qulliqs have been allowed in the museum before, what the current policy is, and the basis for that policy for practice. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Qulliqs have been lit in the museum before, in the auditorium area. There could be arrangements made to have them lit in other areas but a bit of a head's up is needed to ensure that, you know, sprinkler systems are turned off so that we don't damage any of our artifacts and that smoke detectors perhaps are temporarily removed. And that's the situation we found ourselves in, where there just wasn't enough lead time given to make a change like that to allow for one to be lit. And it's an unfortunate incident, and I think there's -- we would have done things differently if we had known earlier. But I'll leave it at that. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Justice.

Can the Minister of Justice tell us how many RCMP misconduct cases have been reported and investigated within the NWT? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for Justice.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When people bring forward complaints, they can bring them forward to the RCMP or to a civilian oversight group, the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission.

In 2017-2018, there were 33 complaints. In 2018-2019, there were 32 complaints. In 2019-2020, 32 complaints. In 2021, there were 18 complaints. And in 2021-2022, there were ten complaints. As of May 13th in this fiscal year, there have been three. Thank you.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell us if the RCMP investigates their own misconduct cases. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So as I mentioned, citizens can bring their complaints directly to the RCMP in which case, depending on the nature of the complaint, it might be investigated internally by G-division. If it is a more serious complaint, an outside agency would be brought in to do the investigation. And if it's brought to the civilian review and complaints commission, they would be the ones undertaking that. Thank you.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the standard length of time that an RCMP officer stays in the community is usually about two to three years.

Can the Minister tell us how long a commanding officer of G-division remains in their position, and what is the criteria for hiring a commanding officer? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The answer to the question 3A is five years. And the answer to question 3B is about two pages long, so I will share that by email with the Member. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I strongly believe it is time that the NWT review its police service agreement with the RCMP. The RCMP are overpaid, underworked, and need greater accountability, transparency, and oversight on their conduct.

Does the Minister have the authority and the will to review the terms and conditions of the existing Territorial Police Service Agreement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Territorial Police Services Agreement is a 20-year agreement, and it goes until the year 2032. It is collectively managed by all provinces and territories. So there wouldn't be much utility in myself sitting down and reviewing this 80-page document. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

I'm wondering if the Minister can speak to beyond helping somebody with any physical support that they need within an emergency centre, what is the protocol for responding to a mental health crisis or suicide attempt? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Member for Kam Lake for that question.

NTHSSA has a system-wide policy on suicide risk assessment. It's a 10-page policy which is available online.

The policy clearly states that the staff need to assess the risk and complete a meaningful safety plan. The risk assessment determines the level of intervention which could be minimum, moderate, or high. If the suicidal incident involves the hospital, there's a discharge meeting and a plan for which there is a template. And if needed, a multi-disciplinary community care plan is created. So this could include access to counselling, which is available same day although, as the Member noted, that's not seven days a week. Any mental health. And mature minors who have the capacity to understand and consent, don't have to involve their families in their hospital visit and their aftercare plan. But it would be good practice if that were the case so that there is a reliable person who can be part of this person's recovery. Thank you.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can say that with the residents of the territory that I've had the opportunity to speak with that is not what has happened in their experience following a suicide attempt from a family member or from themselves. And so this is definitely a gap. And so I'm wondering if Health and Social Services tracks suicide attempts, and if they also track the response and the plan of care that is provided to each of those people who are travelling this journey because I will say that that is not the reality of the residents that I've had the opportunity to speak with. Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I certainly welcome the Member for Kam Lake to share specific cases with me to follow up. In terms of self-harm and suicidal ideation, information provided to the Member previously reveals that the number of self-harm or suicidal ideation incidents has, in fact, been developing over the years since 2016-2017, which is the first year in this five-year chart. Likewise, the number of people seeking counselling because of suicidal ideation, that is youth seeking counselling, has gone down as well.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. There clearly is a problem with suicidal ideation, and we need to take that seriously. That's why we have made suicide prevention funding available to communities so that they can do their own suicide prevention training and awareness. Awareness and training. So that's where we're going with the prevention piece. And to reiterate what I said earlier, if the Member knows that the policy is not being followed, I encourage her to bring that to my attention on a case-by-case basis so that we can figure out what the gaps are and how to address them. Thank you.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is me standing in front of the Minister identifying a gap. These services are not being provided at the hospital. When people present at the hospital with suicide attempts, they are not given the supports that they need before they leave. Before they leave, they are asked if they are physically okay. They are put on a list to receive a call home from the community counsellor on the agenda of the -- or schedule of the community counsellor. They are not provided with an aftercare plan. They are not provided with a safety plan. They are not connected to the resources that Health and Social Services spends a lot of money making available to people, and they are not provided with a recipe for success.

We are not using the second chances that we are being given by residents adequately, and I'm identifying this gap right now. So will the Minister provide immediate direction to Health and Social Services to fill this gap, please. Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the Member for her comments. I will take them into account.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My next question was related to, hopefully, getting a yes to fill that gap.

Will the Minister be willing to table a solution, then, that she comes up with her department in the House so that everybody knows what's expected of one another and what kind of service they can expect in dangerous situations. Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I've heard the comments of the Member, and I will take them into account. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Justice shared that the RCMP has been tasked to focus on the MMIWG Calls for Justice and TRC Calls to Action.

I want to ask the Minister, can the Minister share some of the specific action the RCMP will take to address the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls calls for police services as part of that renewal? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister responsible for Justice.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So as everyone knows, the RCMP is a contractor. They are separate. I'm not privy to all of the operational details, and I don't have them on hand. So because of that, I will have to get back to the Member with a written response. Thank you.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. I'm aware they are federal jurisdiction but he is the Minister of Justice for our side.

Will there be a specific practices or policies implemented in regard to prevent police brutality and other forms of violence against Indigenous women? Thank you.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And, again, these are all very operational. I don't want to give partial answers. The Member's very good at soliciting information from Ministers through written questions and through these very complex oral questions. And so what I'm going to have to do is provide a written response once again. Thank you.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. Can the Minister share some of the specific actions that the RCMP will take to address to develop a healthier relationship based on respect with Indigenous people? Thank you.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. Once again, Mr. Speaker, with a bit of head's up I might have been able to come up with some of these answers and get these very specific operational details from the RCMP. But I will have to get back to the Member. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Okay, as our representative.

Are RCMP officers given cultural awareness and sensitivity training before they enter the communities? Thank you.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is part of the RCMP training. As well, G-division, the RCMP in the Northwest Territories, have requirements for new members to engage with the community once they become part of that community, to meet with elders, to participate in community events. And there's a number of other things that -- a number of other things that happen in the territory in response to the MMIWG and TRC that the department is the lead on, not necessarily the RCMP. The community safety officer pilot project, the -- there are community justice programs which we've had for a number of decades now, the community policing action plans, and the First Nation Inuit policing program, which emphasizes community policing as opposed to more traditional policing. So there are a number of things that are happening. And, you know, with the written responses that I'll be providing the Member, she will have all of the information that she requires. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Right now across every jurisdiction in Canada a process is occurring where jurisdictions have gotten advance copies of National Building Code 2020, and many are reviewing and deciding whether they want to implement it, whether they want to make any exemptions. As I stated in my statement, many have already taken parts of it, such as the sections on mass timber, and implemented them.

And my question for the Minister of MACA is whether we are doing any of this work, whether this is work that the GNWT does at all, or simply do we just go to the Fire Prevention Act regulations and change 2015 to 2020 when that comes into force? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the NWT is currently using the 2015 National Building Standards or the National Building Code. The code permits construction of mass timber buildings up to six stories. The 2020 edition that the Member's talking about was released in March of 2022, and the fire marshal's office has up to two years, or until 2024, to adopt it. But I'm happy here to say it to this here in the House and for the people out there that the fire marshal's office will be adopting it in the first quarter of the 2023 fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's news to me. I'm glad to hear that we will be adopting NBC 2020.

I guess my understanding though, is we don't actually adopt it wholesale; we just adopt the small section of it that applies to fire prevention and then the fire marshal approves that. The rest of it is kind of left up to municipalities.

Also in one of the exemptions that a number of jurisdictions are exploring is whether buildings of four to six stories need two stairwells. I know this is a highly technical exemption but a number of jurisdictions have said that if you get rid of the second stairwell requirement, you see the nature of cities change, you see more buildings built in a different style. I'm just wondering if this is something at all that we have considered? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the NBC 2015 requires at least two exits, and there must be arranged so that they are clear, visible, identifiable, and accessible.

For public safety reasons, we cannot facilitate a single means of exit, the current adoption -- or adopted code, as well as the 2020 code, requires two exits to ensure that at least one exit is available during emergency evacuation if one is blocked due to fire or smoke. I do not want to be the Minister that has only one exit and we have a fatality going out there. So we are going to follow the code as it is and follow the recommendations as it will have to. Thank you.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I guess this gets to kind of the heart of implementing building codes, as I can assure the Minister there are buildings all across this territory with one exit, and there are buildings all around this territory that don't meet the code because they were built a long time ago. And, you know, it's whether how we enforce those standards.

One of the specific standards beyond the National Building Code I'd like is the Canadian Safety Association Standard B561, also very technical. But the Human Rights Commission has said that in order to prevent a building from a discrimination case for not being accessible, this is the standard that we should adopt. The territory should be designing buildings to be accessible for disability standards.

I'm wondering if the department is looking into any work to be done so we could adopt that accessibility standard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the standard's already in place in the NWT as referenced in the current adopted edition of the National Building Code 2015. Many additional changes are incorporated in the 2020 edition of the NBC to further improve the accessibility design. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I want to follow up my questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services concerning standards of care being offered in small communities.

On May 31st, 2022, the Minister stated I had the opportunity to go to six different NWT communities, and you had a lot to say about healthcare and delivery to them.

Can the Minister tell us which communities she visited, and what issues she heard from the residents? And Mr. Speaker, I don't need specifics, just a broad policy recommendation that represents the privacy of the healthcare clients. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. I was honoured, Mr. Speaker, to tour your communities - Fort McPherson, Tsiigehtchic, Aklavik.

I attended a constituency meeting with my colleague from Inuvik Boot Lake. I went to the Fort Smith Medical Centre and met with regional wellness council. I went to Norman Wells, and I met with the regional wellness council there and toured the long-term care. And I met with the Yellowknife regional wellness council which includes a representative from Fort Resolution.

The issues were what I would define as case management, which means that people had specific concerns about their own interactions with the healthcare system. Thank you.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank Minister Green for your answer.

The Minister has also said that the CEO of the Yellowknife Health and Social Services region has been to Fort Resolution a couple of times this month and has opened channels of communications with the leadership there.

Can the Minister elaborate on the number of visits and if they had an opportunity to meet with the Chief Louis Balsillie and president Arthur Beck. Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'm going to need to get back to the Member with details of when those visits happened by the COO of the Yellowknife region to the community of Fort Resolution. I know they happened in May, but I can't be more specific than that.

And I would also like to say that with respect to meeting Arthur Beck and Chief Balsillie, I haven't met Chief Balsillie. I have met Arthur Beck at various bilaterals that we've had. Thank you.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, and mahsi to Minister Julie Green for your answer. Can the Minister tell us what she means by stating the communication channels have been established with Fort Resolution leadership. Does this mean that a plan to address the needs of community is in development? Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. I found in my notes here that the chief operating officer was there May 2nd to the 5th. She met with community members, the mayor, the staff at the health centre, to look at ways that communication could be improved within the community and between the community and the health and social services authority.

The service levels are a concern. I've mentioned this previously. We're very short of nurses, and that applies to Fort Resolution as it does to other places. Finding staff is done on a system-wide basis. So we don't have a plan that single out particular communities. We need to provide healthcare across the NWT. So everyone is considered at the same time.

I am pleased to hear that the community has taken advantage of the community suicide prevention agreement in the last fiscal year and received $41,000 to bring about that service, and that the Chief has been holding a six-week wellness camp and follow-up work shops. That's great. And I really appreciate communities applying for the community funds that we have available so that they can provide service directly to their residents according to their own needs and values. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister reassure this House that the health centres and personnel and RCMP Members in Fort Resolution and Lutselk'e, and other small communities, establish a meaningful and clear protocol process to understand their powers and responsibilities in the case of emergencies for the enforcement under the Mental Health Act. The community members and leadership should know exactly what to do and to whom to call for help in the case of emergency to enforce the Mental Health Act. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that there is a nurse on call, and so I would suggest that the first call be to the health centre. 9-1-1 is available throughout the NWT as an emergency service that can provide links to other emergency services. I think the RCMP are 24/7 as well.

So I think, if I understand the Member correctly, the services that he's referencing are available 24/7, and I would suggest that Members call their local service first, service providers before, trying 9-1-1. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of MACA confirm when we can expect to see SOAs for accommodations in Hay River? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister responsible for MACA.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the RFP for apartments, hotels, and B and Bs was just done on Monday. We're working procurement, and we're trying to work as fast as we can to try and get that standard offer out there for accommodations. As soon as we get it, we will make sure that Members are aware of it as well as the contractors who have submitted to the bid. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier in the week the Minister said we'd be seeing the standard list of values of items that'll be available for those that had damage.

Can the Minister confirm when that standard list will be available? Thank you.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier that we were working on this and it's just getting finalized with the deputy minister who will be sending it to our office. And once that is done, within probably 24 hours, we'll have that information out to the pathfinders, the MLAs that are affected which is, you know, Deh Cho, Hay River North, Hay River South. So we will make sure that they have that information to them as well as the pathfinders as well as the insurance companies that we have had reach out to us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I requested a flowchart outlining the DAP process from the Minister. Can the Minister confirm that that flowchart is being worked on and when it might be available? Thank you.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's actually convenient that the Member asked this question. We're just actually sending him a response to his email to us. So we are just finalizing it. We're working on that flowchart. We are going to have it up next week, early next week on there, but we will also make sure -- like I said, we'll make sure that Members from Deh Cho, Hay River North, Hay River South, as well as the insurance companies, have that information as well as the town and K'atlodeeche First Nation administration staff. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And the idea of that flowchart came from one of my constituents as well. It wasn't my idea.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister if he'd have time to visit Hay River with his staff to answer some of the questions that residents may have with respect to the DAP process and accommodations and mitigation. Thank you.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm more than willing to work with the Member on this, as well as the Member from the Deh Cho. Right now our schedule is getting really, really busy, but this is an important thing, and I'm hoping that I can do it middle of next week starting Wednesday. I think that's where my schedule allows me to get in there. So, yes, I will be making that commitment to work with the Member to get in there you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of the Environment and Natural Resources.

The Tlicho government asked for a regional study covering the Slave Geological Province almost exactly a year ago. The June 7th, 2021, letter for the Tlicho government stated, "we need an independent assessment of options, impacts, and benefits before permanent infrastructure is built and there's only one chance to get it right.

So the regional study seems to have been put on hold during the recent federal election.

Can the Minister give us an update on the status of the proposed regional study? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for ENR.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to probably just -- it's not going to be a perfect answer. So basically, and as in depth as the Member may want. So right now working on a potential regional strategy assessment in the Slave Geological Province is being led by the Crown Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada. Regional studies are a federal responsibility under the MVRMA, CIRNAC, and the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board are planning to hold a workshop later this month with Indigenous governments, resource management supports, on the regional strategic environmental assessments. The GNWT will attempt -- will be attending this workshop, and details which are still being developed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. Of course, perfect is the enemy of good.

But, you know, I understand that the final decision, of course, is going to be made by a federal minister but clearly there's a lot at stake for us, and I know that the federal minister has consulted with our government. I just want to know what our government is saying back.

So can the Minister tell us whether GNWT intends to engage Indigenous governments, the public, and even Regular MLAs with regard to our position on this regional -- this proposed regional study. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, sometimes people say perfect is the enemy of good. Well, if we do good, then we get criticized for not being perfect. So we need to do the job right. So I just want to make that very clear.

The federal government has agreed to hold primary discussions with Indigenous governments, the GNWT, the Government of Nunavut, and boards. The GNWT will actively participate in this engagement. The GNWT has not developed a position on a regional assessment. I need to stress we have not come up with a position.

The GNWT will first be participating in engagements led by the federal government. Following this when more information is known, MLAs will be consulted on a potential GNWT position.

I need to really stress we will reach out to all our MLAs, whether it's on Cabinet or AOC, to come with a position.

As I committed last year, I will share additional information with MLAs when it becomes available. So we'll make that commitment. I did it last year. I'll make the commitment again here. We will make that commitment to make sure we share that information. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that.

I don't know how you actively participate in something if you don't have the position. But I'm going to leave it to the Minister.

You know, the most important resource in this area of the proposed regional study is the Bathurst caribou herd, which doesn't pay any attention to boundaries.

So can the Minister explain whether our government is taking a position on the geographic scope of this proposed regional study and the need for a transboundary approach? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government, as a Minister, I make a decision based on information provided to me. I should not make a decision based on what could be or can't be.

So, Mr. Speaker, the GNWT, again, has not developed a position on a regional assessment. The GNWT will not take a formal position until there is more information and engagement has occurred with Indigenous governments, Nunavut, regulatory bodies, as well as MLAs. Any GNWT position will take into account the views of all parties and stakeholders as well as the GNWT legal obligations, mandated items, and priorities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. But clearly our government should be in a position now to stand on its hind legs and actually say something about the importance of caribou, the importance of this region for our communities. But I guess we have to wait and be told this.

So I'm giving my feedback to the Minister now. It's become best practice with an environmental assessment to ensure that there's participant funding for Indigenous governments and the public and to provide for a level playing field during these kinds of things.

So can the Minister tell us what the position of this government is with regard to the funding of a regional study and, more particularly, participant funding? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Well, Mr. Speaker, first of all, caribou are very important, and I don't need anybody to tell me that. I live it. My family lives it. Indigenous governments live it.

I've been talking with Indigenous leadership. We are going to Nunavut this month to talk about caribou.

So I thank the Member for that. But caribou are very important.

To answer his question, the GNWT expects that any regional assessments would include opportunity for meaningful Indigenous and public participation. The GNWT support federal participation funding for our regional strategic environmental assessment if one is held. The funding for the RSEA, includes participation funding, would be a federal responsibility, and we will make sure that we tell the federal government to make sure we put that funding forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Colleagues, our time for oral questions has expired.

Written questions. Returns to written questions. Replies to the Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Reports of standing and special committees. Tabling of documents. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, Emerging Stronger: Planning the Northwest Territories's Social and Economic Recovery Together, June 2022 Update. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following three documents, Environmental Rights Act Annual Report 2021-2022; Policy 53.05 Environment and Natural Resources Statement of Environmental Values; and, What We Heard: Statement of Environmental Values, March 2022. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 1041-19(2): Student Access to Support Services. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Motions. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker,

WHEREAS Section 16.(2) of the Human Rights Act provide that the Northwest Territories Human Rights Commission is composed of such members, between three and five in number, as may be appointed by the Commissioner on the recommendation of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the Human Rights Commission currently only has three Members;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, that the Legislative Assembly recommend the reappointment of the following individual to the Northwest Territories Human Rights Commission: Ms. Gail Cyr of the City of Yellowknife for a term of four years.

AND FURTHER, that the Speaker be authorized to communicate the effective date of this appointment to the Commissioner.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. Members, pursuant to Rule 10.3(1), a recorded vote is required. The clerk shall call on each Member by riding name to cast their vote starting with the mover, those participating remotely and those participating in the Chamber in order of their seats. When the clerk calls on you, please state whether you are for, against, or abstaining. Mr. Clerk.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Kam Lake.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

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Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

For.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

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Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

For.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member has indicated that he is in favour of the motion.

The Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

For.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

For.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Monfwi.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Nahendeh.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife South.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Sahtu.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Sahtu.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Range Lake.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

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Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife Centre.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Hay River North.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

In favour.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

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Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

For.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Deh Cho.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

For.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

The results of the recorded vote: 15 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Motions. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to say thank you for giving me the opportunity to introduce the motion to support the transfer of housing units to long-term residents.

Mr. Speaker, in NWT, we are in a housing crisis. As you know, Housing NWT are the majority of -- provides the majority of housing. They are the only landlords in most communities. Mr. Speaker --

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Member for Monfwi, sorry, you have to read your motion first. Okay, please read your motion.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Okay, next time I'll (audio) to ten. Sorry about that. Okay, well, I'm still going to say -- thank you. Okay, now we're okay, we're good to go? Okay, well, got to be serious now. Okay.

Housing NWT transfer to long-term tenants.

Mr. Speaker,

WHEREAS, the Priorities of the 19th Legislative Assembly directs Cabinet to increase the number of affordable homes and reduce core housing needs;.

AND WHEREAS, the 2019 mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories further directs Housing NWT to transition 100 individuals and/or families to homeownership;

AND WHEREAS, Housing NWT provides housing throughout the territory and is the primary provider of housing in the small communities;

AND WHEREAS, pathways to homeownership remains difficult due to barriers and challenges, including income thresholds, for many residents in the smaller communities;

AND WHEREAS, many residents have been long-term tenants in Housing NWT units, have raised their families in these units, and developed strong connections to these units as their family homes;

AND WHEREAS, Housing NWT has many unused and vacant housing units, some of which are in need of repair, throughout the territory;

AND WHEREAS, declining Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation funding will continue to pressure the Government of the Northwest Territories in terms of being able to maintain and repair the current stock of housing units;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, that this Legislative Assembly calls upon Housing NWT to increase efforts to transfer ownership of Housing NWT units to long-term tenants, who have lived in their existing units for 20 years or more, and are willing to assume ownership of their family home for a nominal fee;.

AND FURTHER, that Housing NWT will work with municipal and Indigenous governments to ensure land leases or fee simple title for their units remains affordable when transferred from Housing NWT to the current tenants;

AND FURTHERMORE, that Housing NWT increase efforts to transfer unused and vacant units to interested residents in the communities throughout the territory;

AND FURTHERMORE, that efforts supporting the transfer of unused and vacant units as well as units of long-term tenants commence immediately by Housing NWT;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a comprehensive response to this motion within 120 days.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. The motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Jane has to go first.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Sorry, we're supposed to go to the mover. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Okay, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to introduce a motion to support the transfer of housing units to long-term residents. And you are aware, and we are all aware, that in NWT, we are in housing crisis. This will definitely help improve the lives of many of our small community members.

Mr. Speaker, you know that in small community, Housing NWT provides the majority of housing available to people living in small and remote communities. And like I said, like we said in the motion, that many of these people have been living in these units, in the same public units, for more than 20 years. And a lot of them, they raised their children in these units. And many of these family wanted to be homeowners but due to the ever variety of barriers that is in place, they are unable to maintain those units, or they are not qualified for the programs to be homeowners. And many of these families, they have strong attachment to their homes and location where the house is at. And they are willing to assume -- they are ready and willing to assume the responsibility, all the responsibility of a homeownership, including the repairs and maintenance.

I note that many of these people living in -- who have lived in those units for many, many, many years love their house, and I know that they will take pride in owning a home. And this will help a lot of people, Mr. Speaker.

This will help with the housing programs. We know that there is no housing -- housing market in small communities, and this will definitely help many of the small community members.

Mr. Speaker, a couple times I heard the Minister responsible for Housing NWT say, "I do not want to set up people to fail."

Mr. Speaker, I want to say Indigenous people have been here since time in memorial. We survived, and we are still here. I am not sure how she is going to set up the people to fail, especially people in small communities. I can tell you that Indigenous people are resilient.

Mr. Speaker, at this time, at this moment, I know that -- what I'm going to say is that the NWT Housing, or Housing NWT, failed the people in many of the small communities when they first introduced a mortgage program, independent housing program. Some of them are over 20 years old.

When they introduced these programs in the community, they were aware there was lack of employment in small communities, in many of the small communities, and people did not understand the agreement that they were signing without an appropriate interpreters.

But this is another matter too, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say that I have a beautiful message, a picture in my office with a message that says having a place to go is home. Having someone to love is a family. And having both of these is a blessing. And we have remember who are we advocating for.

When I see that message, that is a reminder for me that I am advocating for a lot of people in Northwest Territories, not just my riding but for the people in the Northwest Territories. So with this in mind, this is the reason why that I brought this motion forward. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

You're the seconder.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I too support this motion. You know, when -- it is a priority of our Assembly. I know the Minister has stated that they will -- they're going to put a hundred homes on the ground, you know, and I think there was some -- in our mandate, there's, you know, transferring of homes to our residents within that stock. At this time I guess, you know, where we are in that, I don't know. That's something I guess that we can -- we'll get back from the Minister.

Mr. Speaker, I also know in my community, when Inuvik was built, it was built in half. You had half of the community that was built for the federal employees that had all running water. And then you had my riding, the other half, which we had 5, 12s and pump out, and no running water. My constituency is the largest -- the residents in my -- like, in my constituency are where Inuvik Housing Authority has the greatest amount of housing units.

Growing up in that community, I too, like my colleague, know of many families who have raised their children, their grandchildren, you know, and now some of them even have great grandchildren raised in those same housing units. They have paid for these houses in threefold, you know.

So, you know, when the Member decided to bring this motion forward, you know, to push -- to make sure that this is hurried up in this government, one of the things that really struck me was how many of our residents have already paid for these homes.

You know, we talk about how we can only -- in the Northwest Territories, Housing Corporation can only have so many units that we can operate. So where are we and how are we doing this, that we asking our residents do they want to own this home, do they want to take this home over, you know. I've never heard of that going on in my community. I've heard of people, you know, raising their families, then their children grow up and then like some of the other colleagues is then they're moved. Then they're moved into a smaller unit where they -- the multigenerational way of life for most aboriginal people, we can't bring our kids back home. We don't have room to bring our grandchildren into our home now.

So this is a way of when we talk about multigenerational homes, some of these bigger units in my community were built in the 60s, in the 70s, you know. And I know Housing has kept upkeep in a lot of these units.

And that's the other thing too, is when we're transferring these homes we need to make sure that they're taken care of and they're transferred in a condition that the homeowner is not having to pay for many upgrades or needs before doing this.

But as I said, I really support this motion. I know even our Premier has said when she bought her first home, the pride that she felt of owning that home. Even though it wasn't the biggest home, it was her home. So, you know, this goes a long way for people to have that sense of worth and this is -- that sense of pride that this is my home.

You know, we've always heard of many of our Aboriginal leaders talk about how in the past the federal government promised people to come off the land, and we'll give you a house. Well, we gave you housing and then we kick you out when your family gets smaller or you get too old and you move them around. Like the Member from Monfwi has stated, this is their home and then they're moved somewhere else, you know. And so that sense, you know, that loss of the home. So especially in the small communities when there's not a lot of housing to go around.

So I just want to give my support, and that's why I second this motion, so that we can hurry up with our plan to do this work and that we get it done in the life of this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. You're sure it's my turn now, right? I don't think that I can speak as eloquently as my colleagues have about this considering the impacts that they see in their home communities and constituencies. However, I want to echo what my colleague for Inuvik Twin Lakes said was that one of the first most proud -- or things that I'm the most proud is when I was able to purchase my home. For me, my home is my safe place. It's my sanctuary. It's the one place where I can go and be vulnerable and feel at ease 100 percent. So for me, it was important that I stand up and support this initiative, especially as I learn more through my work on the Standing Committee for Social Development about the housing issues in the North and the restrictions around getting people into homes and homeownership. It's much more complex than I ever realized prior to taking this job. The fact of there's no housing market. There's not tax-based communities. All of that leads to complexity.

One thing that I keep getting struck by is that if we are going to move people out of homes like this, for example when they don't pay a mortgage they've had for 20 years, we are only now then responsible for finding them housing elsewhere as they become homeless. So as an engineer, I like things to be efficient. So to me, just, you know, transferring this ownership over to the people that have been living there will reduce a large administrative burden and free up resources within the housing department and the housing authorities in order to focus on other areas. So to me that is just logical that we then transfer these homes to the people that have been living in them.

And not only that, as having been a renter and a homeowner, I definitely care a lot more about what I do in my own home than I did as a renter. So once we do move people away from the idea that this is not their home and they're just being, you know, given something or they're temporarily occupying space at the GNWT's will, they will then take a greater pride in that ownership of that home. And that home will be better maintained. They will feel like they're creating a legacy that they can pass on to their children, and as well, I've been really struck by dealing with a particular woman who is homeless right now.

She cannot bring her grandchildren to her community and host them in her house. And so she feels she's seeing a disconnect now of the grandchildren from her culture because she's not able to bring them in and teach them her lessons, and it is really very much impacting her sobriety as well.

So I -- longwinded, more than I thought I would be, but I just wanted to say I very strongly support my colleague, and I thank all of them for informing me on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. The motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I support this motion. Housing NWT needs to find an equitable solution and engagement with the people who have been in a housing unit all their lives. Many, if not all of these people, have grown up in the units either with their mom and dad, brothers and sisters, or other family members. It becomes very hard for these people to give up such units as they have become emotionally attached.

We need to be mindful of the past promises of the NWT Housing Corporation to the people. And they've told them that all they need to do in the past was to pay $5 a month for one year, then the houses would be turned over to them for ownership. Many elders have stated this over and over and over again. Mr. Speaker, it is time to honour these promises. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to rise in support of this motion. And I think the motion arises in cases, especially the long-term ones, but I believe actually that Cabinet is in support of this motion, and I would encourage them to review whether they could actually vote in favour.

I believe the housing authority has a number of policies which allow people to transfer units. I think there has just been a lot of frustration with Members not seeing this mandate commitment filled quick enough. And a lot of the eligibility criteria for the multiyear forgivable loans are sometimes not being met, and there's people who feel that the Housing Corp -- sorry, NWT Housing -- I will work on getting the right name -- are being a little too bureaucratic in how this process goes out, works.

But ultimately, I believe that it should be a shared priority of this government to encourage homeownership, and anyone who lives in a public housing tenant unit and, you know, it's clear that they want their unit, let's work with them.

I think we could probably be a little bit more expansive in the current policies and make sure that they are working for the reality on the ground in many of our communities.

So I just thank Members for bringing this forward, and I think we got to push our Cabinet colleagues to move this along a little quicker. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the mover and the seconder of this motion for the work that they've put into it.

You know, Mr. Speaker, I've had the opportunity or privilege to visit many of the smaller communities here in the Northwest Territories in this job, previous jobs I've had. And, you know, I've spoken to many people about the pride that they have in owning their own homes. And people have seen that the HAP units that, you know, that are still -- they're in many of those communities. Unfortunately, we don't do that program anymore. I think it was a great program and something we should probably bring back. But the pride that people have when they own their own homes will make a huge difference. And I think that's what this motion is really aimed at; you know, trying to find some new and innovative approaches to encouraging homeownership.

So, again, I want to thank the mover particularly for pushing this, and I know that the Standing Committee on Social Development is looking at this issue as well. And I sense that housing is a much higher priority in this Assembly than the last one. We just want to get our Cabinet colleagues fully on board so that when they go to Ottawa, the first thing that they start to talk about is housing.

But this is some work that we can do ourselves to help people in many of our small communities. I strongly support the motion, and I encourage all MLAs to do the same. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too will be supporting this motion. The compassion that was shown in this room by the presenter and the seconder is felt by all of us I'm sure.

I just want to make sure that there is no barriers with the ownership. Things are done with oversight, things are done in a neutral basis and, you know, because many times when we say we're going to do something great and wonderful, we don't want no thresholds for sure. And, you know, we have to really think about how important this is and how important it is for the people that are going to receive these homes and then how happy they're going to be.

And I agree with the MLA, which I don't agree with very often, that the HAP houses were -- the HAP housing program was an incredible program. I grew up under that program, and many of us did. And it gave a lot of pride to people who had to build their own houses, you know.

And with that I want to say -- I want to thank the MLA from Monfwi for expressing such -- you could tell that it's from the heart. And when you do something from the heart, you know, nothing else matters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I'd like to thank the mover and seconder of the motion as well. Housing is very important to everybody in the territories, and homeownership is just that much more important.

This government, though, has to stop perpetuating the myth that Indigenous people cannot manage homeownership. It is a common theme, though, beyond homeownership and it has to stop, and it has to stop here. And in saying that, I support the motion fully. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too support this motion. It's been a while since 1991 when the HAP program was cancelled by CMHC through the GNWT. And since then, though, the housing programs in the communities changed over the years and the policies that was created along the way was written by southern people that was designed. But here in the North, in these communities, you know, employment is a big factor and that's why this program didn't really work. So I think it's something that if we were going to come up with kind of a design now for housing, it has to be community-based, community-driven, and policies created working with Indigenous governments in the future. So I would like to thank the mover and seconder to this motion, and I do support this motion. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. The motion is in order. To the motion. Minister responsible for Housing NWT.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate the time and effort that it has taken to bring this motion forward. I'm actually quite excited, and I look forward to the response. And I appreciate the time to enforce and try to look at changes that we can do within this government. Mahsi. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. The motion is in order. To the motion. I will allow the mover to do closing remarks.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for all the support to my colleagues here and to the Ministers and to the Speaker. I know that there's lot of people that wants to be a homeowner. And a lot of them, they love their houses. And some of theme -- because, like, there are some people that I know who lived in the unit for over 20 years and when the aging parents pass on, they become homeless. And this will really avoid homelessness, some homelessness in communities. And it's really going to be -- it's going to help improve the lives of many community members that are living in the regions. And hopefully this will have the people living, staying in the community. Because of the lack of housing, people move to larger centre.

So I want to say thank you to my colleague, to everybody, to the Members of the Legislative Assembly for supporting this motion. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. Colleagues, pursuant to Rule 10.3(1), a recorded vote is required. The clerk shall call on each Member by riding name to cast their vote starting with the mover, those participating remotely and those participating in the Chamber in the order of their seats. When the clerk calls on you, please state whether you are for, against, or abstaining.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Monfwi.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

In favour.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member has indicated he is in favour of the motion.

The Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

For.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife South.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Sahtu.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Range Lake.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Abstain.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

For.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Deh Cho.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

In favour.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

In favour.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Kam Lake.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

For.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

In favour.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

The results of the recorded vote: Ten in favour, zero opposed, seven abstentions. The motion is carried.

---Carried.

Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, Bill 23, 29, and 40, Committee Report 30-19(2), Committee Report 31-19(2), Tabled Document 567-19(2), and Tabled Document 658-19(2), with Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes in the chair.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madame le President. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 658-19(2), Tabled Document 657-19(2), and Bill 40. Mahsi.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Committee, we will take a short recess and resume with the first item.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 658-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023 to finish it up, and I'll ask the Minister if she has witnesses.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

I do, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses to the Chamber.

Welcome. I'll just get you -- Minister, can you introduce your witnesses, please.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, on my left is the deputy minister of finance, Bill MacKay, and on my right is Terence Courtoreille, deputy secretary to the financial management board.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Welcome. So we will continue on page 15 of the operations expenditures tabled document.

Municipal and Community Affairs, public safety, not previously authorized, $14,762,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you.

Municipal and Community Affairs, school of community governance, not previously authorized, negative $90,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 658-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Municipal and Community Affairs, sports, recreation, and youth, not previously authorized, negative $10,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Thank you, committee. Municipal and Community Affairs, total department, operation expenditures, not previously authorized, $14,650,000. Does the committee agree?

Tabled Document 658-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 658-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023?

Tabled Document 658-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madame la Presidente. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 658-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023 be now concluded, and that Tabled Document 658-19(2) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, committee, we have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 658-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 657-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023. This supplementary estimates document proposes a total increase of $83.6 million, comprised of the following items:

·$64.7 million for infrastructure expenditures funding for projects that were not completed in 2021-2022. This amount is fully offset by lapses in appropriations in 2021-2022;

  • $9.9 million to support priority health information systems. This amount is fully offset by revenues received from the federal government and other funding partners;
  • $5.3 million to support the Redknife River Bridge replacement project;
    • $2.3 million to support increased costs related to the Hay River Fish Processing Plant; and.
  • $1.3 million to support the acquisition and setup of a new child and family services program space in Fort Smith and Fort Providence. This funding is offset by a reduction in operations expenditures.

That concludes my opening remarks, Madam Chair. I would be happy to answer any questions Members may have.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. I'll now open the floor to general comments. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I heard the Minister of Finance say that quite a bit of the carryover was offset by the total amount lapsed. Can I just get how much money this sup is lapsing? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, it should be $64,740,000 I believe, Madam Chair. Let me just confirm that -- or actually, I'll just ask the deputy minister if he has the page open in front of him.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister MacKay.

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Mackay

Thank you, Madam Chair. Lapsed appropriations for 2021-2022 are $11,107,000.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay, I have a different number of what the total lapsed is. And so perhaps I can just get someone to help me understand why you can come to different numbers of what the lapsed funding is and perhaps a bit of an explanation of carryover funding. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have the right page out now but let me, if I may, I'll ask Mr. Courtoreille to answer it, since he has that page.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the total amount of lapsed funding is broken down into two components.

Under the tangible capital asset category, there's approximately $115 million which is being lapsed. And then under infrastructure contributions and deferred maintenance, the previous number quoted by the deputy of $11,107,000. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. So I'm just going to say $125 million. About $125 million in lapsed funding which, my understanding, carryovers mean, you know, if something got delayed and we just have put it into the next -- another fiscal year, a future fiscal year, but we're still planning this spending whereas a lapse means it's no longer approved by the Cabinet or the legislature and so it may never come back, or it would have to rego through the process.

One of the problems I have is that when you look at what's actually tabled, it's not really clear and you're not really able to figure out when something's lapsing because if it's lapsing, you're not reasking the legislature. It just kind of disappears. So it's not clear by the tabled documents to figure out what exactly is lapsing. So I was hoping the Minister could give us a bit of a rundown of what makes up that $125 million that we are no longer spending on capital. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4479

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So if I'm understanding correctly, just the idea of trying to show the lapsing rather than showing only the carryovers and in a different manner, or. I'm not entirely sure, Madam Chair, I apologize as to how to solve this problem for the Member.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'm just hoping the Minister can tell me what is lapsing.

I note as we go through department by department, lapsed money doesn't really show up so I can't ask what's lapsing there individually. You know, it kind of just disappears. If we could have a breakdown of what's lapsing, thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4479

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, may I direct that to Mr. Courtoreille, please.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4479

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. So in the briefing material provided to Members, there is a series of tables, which was broken out by project and by department. And in those tables, Members will see a difference between the free balance that's left over in a project and the amount that is being recommended for carryover. The difference between those two columns would be the amount lapsed by project. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4479

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. This was one of my continued frustrations with how we do this, is all of the briefing materials we are provided are not public so I actually am not allowed to refer to them or speak to them. Would we be able to make that table, which shows the difference of carryover versus cash flow, public? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4479

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, let me take that one away. I will say we have changed the way we report on materials and information over the last few years, and I will go and have some conversations about what is here, what reasons there may be for and against, and get back to the House with that information.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I struggle how to even ask questions when this happens.

So the table that we are not supposed to refer to but was referred to previously, it shows the department, it shows what they previously got and it shows the free balance, and then you can tell what's lapsed. But by department, it doesn't tell you any projects. It just tells you the department. So you have no idea, and there's no ability to know the project that is actually being lapsed. I guess would it be possible to get a public list of what actual projects are not being completed by the GNWT anymore? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4479

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that information certainly is available, and I expect -- yes, I would think that we should be able to find a way to put that information forward, Madam Chair. Yes, thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. And I guess one of the prime examples is that in the publicly-tabled documents, there's nothing for the Municipal and Community Affairs, but I believe that the entirety of the community infrastructure budget for Municipal and Community Affairs is being lapsed. And I really don't believe we didn't give them their money. So if someone can illustrate any of what's going on with MACA as lapsing. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4480

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

I'll direct that to the deputy secretary, please.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of the infrastructure funding for MACA, they're budgeted for, I believe, $29 million to allocate that out to all the communities. And that allocation has been completed, and there's no funding being lapsed. Thank you, Madam.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I'm going to ask no further questions because I feel I'm unable to ask any questions without specifically looking at a confidential document. And I have said this many times in how we do our budgeting that often we pass budgets where we can't say what we want, where we have no idea that there's no public figure provided for the cost of projects. So I also note that the clock wasn't started when I actually spoke so I think I well used up my time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Madam Chair. And I might have blown the whistle on my colleague beside me in terms of the time but, yes, I want to pick up where he's left off.

You know, I find it really difficult that we're trying to do a reconciliation of 2021 capital budget publicly when we've got confidential information. That's what we're trying to do here. And it's not working very well.

So I think I heard somebody say that there's a free balance of about $222 million, if I got it right, or $200 million. Basically the money that wasn't spent on the capital budget from 2021, if I got it right.

So what percentage of the capital budget wasn't spent? Is it, like, roughly 40 percent? 50 percent? 60 percent? Roughly what amount of the budget wasn't spent? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4480

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we do have the percentage here. I am --

We don't have 2022-2023 yet. In 2021-2022, at this point, Madam Chair, we're looking at about 49 percent, just over. 49.6.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4480

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Madam Chair. That's a problem. We can't spend 50 percent of the capital budget that's approved by the Assembly? Look, that's why I voted against the last capital budget because I didn't believe we could actually get the money out the door. And I've been proven right. And, you know, I don't blame anybody in this room, but -- and there's -- but I've asked now for tracking of those reasons for at least five or six years. Is the department actually tracking these reasons any better? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, they are tracking over the course of several years and, in fact, I think I've looked at the data for approximately ten years as to the percentage. And the percentage does vary, but the approximate amount that we are spending year over year doesn't change that much aside perhaps from a couple of years of COVID where things were a little bit tighter than unusual and more difficult to go out and spend. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Without breaching confidentiality, I want to compliment the Minister and her staff for their improved tracking of the reason why money's not getting out the door. Unfortunately, I can't speak to it. I can't share it with the public. But I think it's improved, and that's a good thing. So I want to compliment them for doing that but I want to find a way to share that information publicly, because I want to give them more compliments but I can't.

So in any event, we're not doing a good job at reconciling the capital spending and how it figures into supplementary appropriations on the capital side, and that's a real problem.

So of the money that is -- some of it's being carried over, $64 million I guess is what this sup is for. So the remaining amount, 126, if I got it right, it's being lapsed, what happens to it? Does it just go back into the consolidated revenue fund? Are any of those projects going to come back in another sup or in the capital estimates for 2023-2024? What happens to that money? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4481

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So I mean, there's different -- and Madam Chair, let me just address the confidentiality issue quickly if I might. I don't have a clock in front of me, but I'll try and be succinct.

Look, I do think we can do a different way of presenting this information. This wasn't raised to me in advance, and that's fine. But I do think there's ways of doing it. There's concerns around the long-term plan and concerns around sharing the budgets on the long term. Some of these projects are multiyear projects so sharing what's lapsing inevitably winds up sharing what some of the budgets are. So that said, I do think there's ways we can get this information out. So we'll take that away.

Now, as for what happens to the funds in one year, again, may depend on the nature of a project. The long-term project may already have funds approved going forward, and the project can then continue. If it's not continuing then, yes, the money would just lapse back in to being in the general coffers of the government. Or the consolidated revenue fund. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Madam Chair. So I guess I want to start to draw some conclusions here to this because I think it means at least a couple of things to me.

Number 1, we need to review the fiscal responsibility policy about how much and when we can spend money on capital and where it comes from and so on. And when we can't spend 50 percent of a capital budget, the fiscal responsibility policy itself I think needs to be reviewed. And I think we may have a commitment from the Minister to do that. But maybe I'll stop there and I'll ask the Minister whether that's something that's going to happen. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, Madam Chair, there already is a commitment out there to review the fiscal responsibility policy. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks, Madam Chair. And thanks to the Minister for that.

The second conclusion I draw from this is that we're spending, or attempting to spend, or budgeting too much on capital. And what means is that we have less money for programs and services because it's all -- too much, in my opinion, is going into capital, and then it gets carried over and over and over and over, over a series of years in some cases, maybe it never gets spent. But what it does is eats up some of the money in the operating surplus which means that we are spending less than we could, and perhaps even should, on programs and services, particularly housing, healthcare, education, people's basic human needs. That's what's resulting here, Madam Chair, in my view. I'd like to hear what the Minister has to say. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so I would say that the Member is correct insofar as by having a large capital plan, we wind up that we are not going to be able to completely spend, if you will, and it may be difficult to know in advance which project is or is not going to go ahead. So you know, there's inevitably going to be some amount that does not get spent, and that's never going to be a perfect projection.

By having the large capital, we are not necessarily impacted immediately or taking away from operations. The operations budget is still, you know, existing and being developed on its own based on those needs department by department.

However, by having a capital plan that is too large in the sense that we know we will not achieve all of it, we are creating a situation where -- I don't know if you can recall seeing the borrowing limit and seeing the narrowing gap in between them. If the capital budget wasn't as large, well then we wouldn't be running up as close to that projected line of hitting the borrowing limit because we would have more room. There would not be the need to project the higher level of debt because we simply wouldn't have to take on the higher level of debt because we wouldn't have as much on the capital plan. So it does impact our overall fiscal situation and the overall fiscal picture by suggesting that we're running up against the borrowing limit when in fact if we're not, if we're not going to need to borrow because we're not going to need to spend all that money in the capitol plan, well then our fiscal situation doesn't run up against the borrowing limit quite so quickly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I want to thank the Minister for reminding me of a third point. She just made it for me, that with our overspending, or at least overbudgeting, I'll put it that way, on capital side that we are having to increase the debt limit several times even during my lowly six years here. But once again, the conclusions I draw from this are number 1, that, you know, we are getting closer that debt limit because of overspending on capital; number 2, we have to review the fiscal responsibility policy; and number 3, we're taking money away from basic human needs like education, healthcare, and housing, by spending too much on -- or budgeting too much on capital projects that we can't get the money out the door.

So that's the conclusions I draw, and that's what, Madam Chair, where I'm going to vote against the supplementary appropriation because it -- although there is some money lapsed and it's not going to come back, it still perpetuates the overspending on capital by this government ad does not meet people's basic human needs. And that's why I'll vote against this. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Are there any further general comments before we get into the detailed? Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be voting for this appropriation because the lack of infrastructure in communities and regional centres compared to the capital, for example, is lacking. And this appropriation addresses some of those needs that are needed in the communities and regional centres, as well as the capital. And I don't believe that when you build on capital projects within the territories that we're taking away from education and basic human needs. On the contrary, okay.

I think that each and every one of us in our capacity as leaders cannot draw that conclusion. And I don't agree with my colleague with some of those comments. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Are there any further general comments? Seeing no further general comments, we will review the supplementary estimates by department and activity. Does committee agree to proceed with detailed in the tabled documents?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we will begin on page 6.

Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operation expenditures, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, not previously authorized, $4,893,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just confirm that Sissons is still on track and ready to be opened for the next school season? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Any further questions? Member for Yellowknife North, any further questions? No, okay.

Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, not previously authorized, $4,893,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, total department not previously authorized, $4,893,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, please turn to page 7 of the tabled document.

Department of Infrastructure, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $552,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. In my never-ending attempt to understand accounting language, this $552,000 has an offsetting amount which was lapsed in the previous fiscal. Does that therefore make this a carryover but just essentially a carryover that doesn't cost us any money because we lapsed it last fiscal; am I at all on the right page? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, take that to the deputy secretary, please.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Courtoreille

Thanks, Madam Chair. This line item refers to deferred maintenance, and the Department of Infrastructure actually has a regular annual budget for deferred maintenance under the operations expenditures. It's $1.5 million. They were able to demonstrate through the Financial Administration Manual that there's commitments and contractual obligations for the 552 proposed for carryover. The remaining amounts unspent would be lapsed. Next year for the capital budget in 2023-2024, the department would still maintain their $1.5 million budget for deferred maintenance in this area. Thank you, ma'am.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay, so I do have questions, then.

So we're carrying over about $550,000 of the $1.5 million, meaning the Department of Infrastructure lapsed about a million dollars of deferred maintenance. And I guess my understanding of this happens is because they don't have the contracts in place so they can't say we're absolutely have either a contractual commitment or significant progress under the Financial Administration Manual is why it lapses. But I guess can we get a bit of an explanation of why that happened?

Because I know that the GNWT's deferred maintenance backlog is massive. You know, there's different calculations based on needs but it's fair to say it's in the hundreds of millions of dollars. So how on earth are we not spending a million of it? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, to the deputy secretary, please.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. The largest reasons -- or the largest reason for the difference is really capacity, and it relates to the previous line of questioning. We typically put to market about $250 million a year in capital, and that's really just a product of the local industry, the construction resources available. And we're also finding that drawing on construction resources from the south is more difficult right now because of the economies that are opening up down south as well. The resources just aren't there. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Department of Infrastructure, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $552,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Infrastructure, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $552,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, can you please turn to page 8 now of the tabled document. Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized, $175,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $175,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4483

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Please turn now to page 9.

Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, cultural, heritage and language, not previously authorized, $75,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, not previously authorized, $6,549,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $6,624,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Please now turn to page 10 of the tabled document.

Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $581,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, environment protection and waste management, not previously authorized, $581,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, forest management, not previously authorized, $767,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, wildlife and fish, not previously authorized, $1,203,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital expenditure -- Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, I guess I still am struggling to read these and understand. Can I get an update?

There's $119,000 for a walk-in freezer in Yellowknife. This was actually -- got a lot more attention than it should have, perhaps. It got a lot of attention, let's just say, when it was passed because it's used to store seized caribou.

Can I just clarify whether this $119,000 that I'm seeing here means it is lapsed and no longer going forward or that there was just a delay in the project? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4484

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's just delayed in some fashion and that's why it's being carried over for completion. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4484

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, wildlife and fish, not previously authorized, $1,203,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4484

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4484

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $3,132,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn now to page 11.

Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, information system shared services, not previously authorized, $4,389,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't want to get into specifics of each of these carryovers, but I'll notice that these are all software carryovers and I know a lot of them have been carried over for years. I think ECE has been carrying over this educator certification one for a lot of years now. And I know sometimes you get a contractor for IT and then they don't do the work and then you get a new one. Sometimes software expires, and then you have to -- anyways.

My question is, is I struggle to know whether these projects -- well, I know that none of them are really on time and on track, that's why we're carrying it over, but whether this is unique to the GNWT, whether we are improving in this area, or it's getting worse. Can the Minister just speak to what oversight is being done in this area of information system shared services to make sure that IT projects are on budget and on time? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so two parts to that. And with respect, first, to some understanding as to what was happening over the last year or so, a few comments.

Firstly, that the ISSS or Office of the Chief Information Officer were being relied upon to do things like deliver the QR code, the vaccination records, the updates to health and social services systems in response to COVID. So the fact that we're all able to download those vaccine records as quickly as we were is thanks, in part, to the work that went on in that office, which was not a small thing and it was certainly not an expected thing. So that does wind up delaying other work.

Another issue, Madam Chair, and it's one that is affecting, of course, a lot of industries, private sector as well as public sector, is labour shortages. This is an area, as I have been informed, that it is quite difficult to find skilled individuals to work in this area. So that is also presenting a challenge, certainly to us and I can only imagine to some of the private sector contractors that we are looking to work with on some of the projects as well.

So second part of the question as to what's being done or what's being done to try to manage or mitigate these issues, Madam Chair, I know this is one that the department minister and I look at frequently at our regular meetings and our regular touch bases, and we speak with the chief information officer regularly. So certainly keeping an eye on it and doing our best to see what we can do to focus the available resources. And there's work in that regard over the next year to see what, indeed, can be done to focus resources so that we start to see some successes in some of these. They are not always the most exciting sounding but they can be quite fundamental and important to risk management within the government. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I'm glad to hear that and, you know, I think all of us as politicians have a hard time keeping track and holding IT projects accountable because they're not always the most exciting but they are 10s of millions of dollars so it's hard -- it needs some accountability, and I'm glad to hear that it's on the Minister's mind.

I wanted to specifically ask about the MARS system. I see that we're transferring it over to ITI.

My understanding about online map staking is we need the mineral resources regulations to be completed, and I don't want to get too much into that process, but I'm just wondering if we are -- when we actually expect to have the MARS system ready to go, or is this me seeing that it is ready to go and it's been purchased and we just have to complete the regulations? Do we have a date for online map staking? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so this is being -- yes, it is being transferred over to ITI because the complexity of the Mineral Resources Act regulations and what is being entailed there on the electronic side makes most sense to have the two working hand-in-hand. So, you know, looking to have the two come together one in the same time. I'm not sure if we have a date here necessarily. If we do, I'm sure someone's going to give it to me in a moment. But my understanding is that the intention is that the two projects are working in tandem.

It's more than just online map staking, Madam Chair. It's an area where if there's some interest, I'd suggest that we provide the information in a separate forum because the MARS project is quite a bit more than just the online map staking. There's the entire management of the tenure system that right now is done on paper, or has been on paper. So there's transferring all the paper to digital, being able to manage the digital, being able to make it accessible, being able to have the maps available to do the management of the tenure to do the online map staking. So it's now housed within the same group that is actually doing the regulations so that one develops in tandem with the other and that they are ready to go at the same time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, information systems shared services, not previously authorized, $4,389,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4485

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4486

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $4,389,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4486

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please now turn to page 12.

Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, administrative and supportive service, not previously authorized $10,631,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I see $10 million for priority health information system improvements. 100 percent federal money, which is great. Can I just get an explanation of what that is?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4486

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there's four different funding pots through the federal government that were brought together on this one, relating in some part to the response to COVID-19 and to a restart and arising also from recognition around immunization, virtual care. And all together, they are being used to advance the longer term need to have Health and Social Services assist and -- or not transferred entirely but do make better use of virtual care, electronic medical records, and then the management of public health information in that environment. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I'm glad to hear that. And as part of that, I heard that the EMR, the electronic medical records, was in that. I know that it's currently telesoftware and the licence is expiring. My understanding is that it's going to cost us -- well, I don't know. Does this cover the total cost of that? Does that mean we now have a new EMR in place, or is this just -- I guess that's my question, is this getting us our new EMR, this $10 million? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my understanding at this point is that this is still at a strategic stage and as such, I don't expect it entirely guarantees the full delivery of the new system. That said, it is certainly an important and critical sort of step in that regard. So I do expect to hear more from this over the next year, certainly over the life of this government. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I guess I do expect to hear more, because my understanding is our electronic medical records system is going to cost us more than $10 million, and we're already spending $10 million here. So I guess -- what am I looking for? Well, I guess a commitment, perhaps, to come back when or if we have an estimate of what the total of a new electronic medical records system is going to cost us. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I was a bit hesitant to commit my colleagues but certainly to when there's a strategy that's underway being developed for electronic health records, it is common practice that we would -- as the Ministers appear in front of the standing committees with that type of information. So I'm relatively confident that my colleague won't mind me making that commitment on her behalf. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4486

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, administrative and supportive services, not previously authorized, $10,631,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, health and social programs, not previously authorized 8,853,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4486

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $19,484,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4486

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 13 and 14.

Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $9,746,000. Does committee agree? Member for Hay River South.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Minister confirm why we have that increase in the plan and what would be the drivers of that increase? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there's a couple of different reasons for it. Approximately $1.8 million is due to increased costs of equipment, and that in itself is in turn due to the changes globally right now. It's a specialized equipment, and it's being impacted by the supply chain delays and being impacted by the costs on some of the basic components that go into the equipment.

There is additional amounts increased as a result of change orders. There were some delays in this project as you might recall, and as time is going on, it does seem like all costs are rising rather quickly these days, so.

And Madam Chair, just to anticipate a further question, I don't know if there's going to be some other impacts as a result of the floods. The fish plant itself was not damaged or in an area that was damaged. But I'm certainly conscious that the community itself is obviously going to be experiencing some significant impacts and will no doubt have some significant impacts on the local construction industry, including those working on the plant. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'm interested to know if the project is on schedule and what is the projected timeline for completion. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4487

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. It was on schedule to be complete by November of this year. There had been some talk of even being able to go down and to do some sort of formal opening. At this point, Madam Chair, I'm not sure whether that will still be the case, whether that's due to some delays that may arise out of the flood or not, I will -- when I have an update on that, I will certainly provide it to my colleagues. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, and I guess that's my concern is that with the flood, I know the prime on that contractor, on the plant, is doing quite a bit of work with respect to the flood so I'm just wondering, you know, if they're going to have their resources and the forces -- the workforce there to actually get back and put a hundred percent effort into that plant. So it'd be good to know that, and the Minister can get back to me later on that one.

The second -- another question is talking about equipment and waiting for it. Will any of the equipment be coming from the old FFMC plant, and if so, will there be any additional costs with that? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I don't have the breakdown or the details of the project specifically here. What we have in front of us here, really just information about carryovers or lapses. But, so I don't think so. I will confirm that and let the Member know. But my understanding and recollection of this project is that it was being specially designed. It was specially designed to be CFIA compliant and under the sort of the watchful eyes of Memorial University who had some specialty in this area. So with all that, I know that they were looking largely at new things and new equipment in order to be compliant and in order to meet those specifications. Again, if I'm incorrect, I will certainly update the Member. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

No further questions. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $9,746,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4487

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4487

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investments expenditures, mineral and petroleum resources, not previously authorized, $2,176,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $2,736,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $14,658,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Please turn now to page 15 and 16 of the tabled document.

Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized $20,274,000. Does committee agree? Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So this is, I think, the largest item in the sup, and it seems to be a big area of our spending as well. So I guess the question I want to ask is were there any projects from 2021-2022 or 2020-2021 that were carried over but lapsed and taken out of the, say the capital plan? I'm not sure if I'm making any sense.

Is there stuff that we're not seeing here that it's been lapsed totally, is not going to come back in the books, and it's not part of the capital plan? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, readily we don't have an answer to that question. So we'll certainly make a commitment to go and confirm both with Department of Infrastructure as well as Department of Finance to see if -- my understanding is if there's projects that had been previously carried over and that now are going to be lapsed and not advanced is what I'm hearing. I will go and double check on that, as I said. And yes, yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you for that commitment. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, and I appreciate the position the Minister's in; this coming as a bit of a surprise. But I think we're trying to figure out to make this more transparent process for everybody.

So one of the issues that I've got with the capital planning, the way that it's been done is, you know, Members sit in the Chamber, they get the capital estimates, they vote on them, most Members vote in favour, even this lowly Member occasionally but not probably in this Assembly. But so Members vote in favour of projects in the capital estimates but then somehow during the course of the year, something doesn't happen and the project doesn't go ahead, and nobody ever finds out about it until maybe it comes back as a zombie project in a sup.

So is there a way in which Members can actually, you know, after they've given approval to capital estimates, there's a capital budget, how do Members find out if projects don't go ahead? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4488

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, Madam Chair, I suppose there's a few different ways that one might do that. Certainly when there's a particular projects that are being followed along, that's certainly one way, and I certainly answered questions on ITI projects for instance, or some of the finance systems projects. I recognize that's not necessarily the broad brushstroke that's being sought here.

You know, it may well be that we need a different type of tracking system that monitors and tracks the delivery of projects. That's certainly -- you know, when we're talking about -- or "we", when I have spoken about recently procurement shared services and the procurement one-stop shop meant to be a better repository of information about what is happening with procurement of projects. So we'll certainly look back to see if in fact that type of information is there. That site is only just going live quite recently. So again, maybe some room to ensure that it's achieving that goal of providing that kind of public tracking or that this might be an opportunity to see that it does do that, in fact. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4488

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4488

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I'd appreciate that from the Minister. I think that's the kind of transparency, accountability, and sharing of what should be publicly-available information that I'm looking for. So I'm happy on that one.

The question, though, I want to ask is, you know, and I would have asked it at the beginning, but I'm going to try to sneak it in here. We're getting really close to the reserve for the entire supplementary estimates, and I think some of it is largely due to spending on asset management in particular.

But what happens -- we've only got I think 11 million -- maybe the Minister can tell me, how much is left in the reserve, and what happens if we get any closer to it? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So there isn't, as part of the overall fiscal plan or picture, a capital reserve. The supplementary reserve, which we spoke about yesterday, yes, that was sitting at $35 million this year and is definitely seeing a fair bit of pressure on it right now. But when we're funding capital projects, you have to fund the capital projects 50 percent out of surplus dollars and then the other 50 percent would typically come from some form of borrowing.

So to the extent that we are eating in to -- or increasing our capital spend, we are drawing that down from the projected surpluses that we were holding on to in compliance with the fiscal responsibility policy. That, or going in for borrowing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks to the Minister for that. I guess maybe I might suggest, then, that in the review of the Fiscal Responsibility Policy that this idea of a reserve on the infrastructure side is something that the department might look at. Yes, is that something that they could consider? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And as I mentioned earlier, Madam Chair, there is an existing commitment to look at the Fiscal Responsibility Policy so this certainly may well be that opportunity. And similarly, as I had said, there's ongoing work happening with respect to the reporting on contracting and procurement more generally. So this may also be that opportunity to again to look there. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $20,274,000. Does committee agree? Oh, Member for Hay River South.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to go to these culverts in highway reconstruction.

This spring we had a number of washouts on Highway 1 and which required some -- you know, a lot of labour and equipment. And I see with the culverts there, will some of that work take into account, you know, some of the issues that we did experience this spring, or is that going to be additional funds we'll be looking for? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this spring's culvert work would come out of what would have been appropriated as part of the usual appropriation. So this is for work that was underway or not completed but underway or begun last year. The annual amount that is budgeted for culvert work I gather is $7.5 million, and that remains unchanged. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Hay River South.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

No, thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized -- Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4489

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I just want to speak in support about how helpful I would find some sort of database of all the current projects and some sort of status to look at.

It would also be my dream, as I've spoken about before, we approve capital projects and when we do that, we are not allowed to say the total cost of the project. But the minute that we are allowed to say that, if such database could include that information so I don't have to come back and keep asking how much a project costs to get the public figure out eventually. And I know sometimes you could do that by going through all the contracts reports and adding them all up for a specific project, but you actually probably can't figure it out properly. But I did have a question as well.

I'm just trying to understand this $125 million in lapsing. You know, we are not spending $125 million. If the Minister could just give me what she believes is causing this. And I mean, is any of that political FMB decisions where they go, listen, we're just not doing this project anymore, or is it FMB going to departments and saying, you don't meet the criteria to carry over, or is it -- I guess is it one of those two things or something else? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So I don't have the number -- or the 125 number in front of me. So I just want to be clear that I'm not going to speak to a specific number. And I know that it does seem like that there may be some different numbers where we somehow have managed to operate it on once again with these different documents.

But the crux of it, and the point of the question, as I understand, is really, again, how are projects that are not seeing carryovers, what is happening to them and where are those decisions.

So projects don't necessarily get -- they're not getting cancelled. We're not doing a cull. That's not how the item comes forward. What does come forward is the request to carry over.

So the departments would look at the projects that are underway or in planning or, you know, have contracts that have been signed, obligations established, and then those come forward to be approved for a carryover. And that's what would be in front of the House now. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you. Well, I guess I wonder, then, is any of that lapse, a department has just simply not applied for a carryover and then they didn't get it, or, you know, is there a capacity issue, it's actually reapplying for the money to be carried over, or are they just actually not -- don't have contracts in place or significant progress, I guess, on those? Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I mean, departments certainly don't need to apply to carry over their funds. I mean, that's where we get into the situation where, you know, each department does have their projects for which they are responsible. Obviously Infrastructure has a fair chunk that they're delivering on behalf of others as well. But it is up to an individual department if they want to seek to have a carryover or not. I would, yeah, and I can't really speak for those individual decisions. But if it overtly doesn't meet the criteria of the "carryover" definition, that may be a reason not to, but then again, the explanations as to why something might be delayed could be a reason to do in favour of a carryover -- or to seek the carryover. Thank you.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $20,274,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, programs and services, not previously authorized, $7,811,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $28,085,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 17 of the tabled document.

Department of Justice, capital investment expenditures, corrections, not previously authorized, $780,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Justice, capital investment expenditures, court services, not previously authorized, $175,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Justice, capital investment expenditures, services to the public, not previously authorized, $298,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Justice, capital investment expenditures, total department, $1,253,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4490

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4491

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Please turn to page 18 of the tabled document.

Department of Lands, capital investment expenditures, operations, not previously authorized, $310,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4491

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4491

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Department of Lands, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $310,000. Does committee agree?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4491

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4491

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you've concluded consideration of Tabled Document 657-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023? Agreed?

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4491

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Tabled Document 657-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastruture Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023
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Page 4491

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madame la Presidente. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 657-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2022-2023 be now concluded, and that Tabled Document 657-19(2) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Tabled document 657-19(2) will be reported as ready for consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill.

Thank you, Ministers, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Bill 40, an Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act. I will ask the Minister of Health and Social Services to introduce the bill.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here to present Bill 40, An Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act. The purpose of this bill is to allow for regulation of physicians providing virtual care to NWT residents. The use of virtual care has greatly increased, in large part due to the limit of in-person contact and medical travel during the COVID-19 pandemic.

We engaged with physicians throughout the development of this bill and have committed to undertake a collaborative approach to physician regulation. We know that this work needs to be informed and supported by these professionals.

I appreciate the Standing Committee on Social Development's willingness to work with us to further amend the bill based on the feedback we received from the committee and medical professionals.

The major amendment in this bill exempts physicians in other provinces and territories from having to register to provide virtual care to NWT residents if they have a referral from an NWT doctor or nurse practitioner. Physicians in other provinces and territories within the NWT referral pathways do not have to be licensed in the NWT in addition to their home jurisdiction.

This exemption allows greater access to services for residents while reducing administrative burden for physicians. We've heard that too much paperwork to be licensed means physicians will withdraw their services from the NWT.

Second, the amendments also clarify that physicians must abide by professional standards of practice. The standards of practice set out the minimum expectations of care provided by physicians. Currently, this is an oversight not included in the Medical Profession Act.

An amendment to the bill adds a new regulation-making power that allows for the standards of practice to be created or adopted.

We have a well-established relationship with the College of Physicians and Surgeons for Alberta. For many years, the complaints officer under the Medical Profession Act has been contracted through the college which gives advantages of economies of scale, expertise, and resources that are not available in the Northwest Territories.

With the Alberta College's full knowledge and support, work has been ongoing since 2019 to adopt standards of practice for NWT physicians that are similar to standards set by the Alberta College. The Alberta College's standards are consistent with the standards of practice for physicians in all other provinces.

This work was initiated by the complaints officer under the Medical Profession Act. The territorial medical director at the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority and the department have been working on adapting the Alberta standards of practice to align with the NWT legislation and is working collaboratively with the NWT physicians to finalize them. That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Would you like to bring witnesses in to the Chamber.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, please introduce your witnesses for the record.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. On my left is Cherie Jarock, legislative counsel, and on my right is Kelly Mahoney, director of policy for the Department of Health and Social Services.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will now turn to the chair of the Standing Committee on Social Development, the committee that reviewed the bill for any opening comments on Bill 40. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Bill 40, an Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act, received second reading in the Legislative Assembly on November 26th, 2021, and was referred to the Standing Committee on Social Development for review on March 28th, 2022. Committee sought and received an extension to our review period.

On May 19th, 2022, the standing committee held a public hearing with the Minister of Health and Social Services and completed its clause-by-clause review of the bill. Ten motions were carried by committee and concurred with by the Minister.

I thank the stakeholders who provided feedback, Members of the standing committee for their efforts in reviewing this legislation, and of course the Minister of Health and Social Services for her collaboration in improving this bill together.

Individual Members may have additional comments or questions. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 40. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I want to thank the committee and the Minister for the work on the bill. I was able to sit in on a lot of the committee proceedings and discussions, deliberations about this bill.

The one improvement that the Minister did not mention, that I think is worthy of highlighting here, is that the addition of section 24.1 which modifies the way in which the work on regulating the medical profession is going to change.

This new clause, which was proposed by the committee and accepted by the Minister, but it was proposed by the committee, requires that there be consultation with the Northwest Territories Medical Association that was -- that's not in the existing legislation. So I think this will create a higher level of comfort moving forward.

I think there were some miscommunications around how the profession is actually regulated in the North and perhaps some misunderstanding about how the medical profession is regulated in the Northwest Territories, but I think with the addition in particular of this clause, I think it has created a level of comfort that was not there before and some protection for the medical profession. So I want to thank the committee for their work on this. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? Does the committee agree that there are no further general comments? Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Sorry about that, Madam Chair. Thank you. I just wanted to comment that I appreciate everybody that did input on this bill. As I'm still learning how the legislative process all works, I found it to be one that was informative and showed me how things could shift and change as we work through it, and I appreciate the adaptability of the department and such.

I guess one comment I just wanted to make was that I find it quite interesting the parallel to a profession like engineering, that I am more familiar with the regulation of, and then the doctors and the medical professionals.

So I guess I just have more of a comment that I -- we love to take from others, and I think that NAPEG and the engineers and other professional associations could probably help guide this work further if we were to move towards a self-regulating group. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Are there any further general comments? Does committee agree that there are no further general comments? Can we proceed to the clause-by-clause review of Bill 40, An Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act?

Committee, a number of clauses were deleted during the Standing Committee on Social Development's clause-by-clause review of Bill 40 on May 19th, 2022. The reprint before us today indicates where those clauses were deleted. As the clauses were deleted by standing committee with a concurrent of the Minister of Health and Social Services, they are not part of the bill before us today, and we will not be voting on them.

Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Please turn to page 1 of the bill.

Clause 1, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 2, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 3 and 4 were deleted in Standing Committee on May 19, 2022.

Clause 5, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 6, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 7, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 8, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 9, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 10, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 11, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 12 through 19 were deleted in Standing Committee on May 19, 2022.

Clause 20, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 21, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 22, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 23, was deleted in Standing Committee on May 19, 2022.

Clause 24, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 24.1, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 25, does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, to the bill as a whole, does committee agree that Bill 40, An Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act is now ready for third reading?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Does the committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 40, An Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Bill 40, An Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to your witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I move that the chair rise and report progress. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

There's a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

May I please have the report of Committee of the Whole. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

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Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 658-19(2); Tabled Document 657-19(2); Bill 40. And I would like to report progress, with two motions carried, that Bill 40 is ready for third reading, that consideration of Tabled Documents 658-19(2), 657-19(2), are concluded, and that the House concur on those estimates and that an appropriation bill to be based thereon be introduced without delay.

And, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Do we have a seconder? Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried.

Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Board of Management at the rise of the House in Committee Room A today.

Orders of the day for Friday, June 3rd, 2022, at 10:00 a.m.

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  6. Acknowledgements
  7. Oral Questions
  8. Written Questions
  9. Returns to Written Questions
  10. Replies to Commissioner's Address
  11. Petitions
  12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  13. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  14. Tabling of Documents
  15. Notices of Motions
  16. Motions
  • Motion 58-19(2), A Strategy to Match Canada's Population Growth
  • Motion 59-19(2): Extended Adjournment of the House to October 13, 2022
  1. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  2. First Reading of Bills
  3. Second Reading of Bills
  4. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  • Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act
  • Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act
  • Committee Report 30-19(2), Standing Committee on Social Development Report on the Review of the 2020-2021 Annual Report of the Information and Privacy Commissioner
  • Committee Report 31-19(2): Standing Committee on Social Development Report on Bill 40: An Act to Amend the Medical Professional Act
  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills
  • Bill 40, An Act to Amend the Medical Profession Act
  1. Orders of the Day

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Friday, June 3rd, 2022, at 10 a.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:44 p.m.