Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Yellowknife North.

Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories consult the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight when developing guidelines for statements of consistency required under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I can't let this one go without raising some concerns and issues that I think are well reflected in the report itself. But I like this idea of a statement of consistency for government bills. I think government has the resources, and they can and should be doing this. The difficulty is that the way the bill was drafted is that requirement for a statement of consistency was also imposed on Private Member's bills without any discussion/consultation with this side of the House. And I'll confirm this when the Minister's up in the witness chair when we get to it but just no thought whatsoever. Didn't even tell us.

That's just not how this place is supposed to work. And I guess we did get some advice about this that this might not be -- or that it would not be -- I can't really talk much about it but we do have certain privileges in this House, and one of them is the ability to bring forward Private Member's bills.

In my experience in eight years, it's very daunting for an individual MLA to bring forward a Private Member's bill. The cards are stacked against you right from the very start in terms of yeah, we can access the assistance from a law clerk but we don't have departments. We don't have resources at our disposal to go out and do consultations on bills, discussion papers, What We Heard reports. Private Members don't have any of those kind of resources. So now adding on a requirement for -- sorry, and that's just the start of it. You know, and if Cabinet doesn't support your Private Member's bill, quite frankly it's a very, very difficult task to try to get it through this House. I want to -- hats off to my colleague from Yellowknife North who managed to get a Private Member's bill through amending the Ombud Act with the support of Regular MLAs even though Cabinet wouldn't support it. But the cards are stacked against you right from the beginning as a Regular Member on Private Member's bills. We don't even have proper procedures for standing committees to review them. It's very difficult. I just -- you know, and having tried it a few times, it's a monument -- and you really have to have a lot of discipline and gumption to actually get up and try to do it but sometimes that's the only way change actually ever happens. This bill is going to impose one more barrier.

Now Regular Members are going to have to do a statement of consistency, work with the law clerk. And I think that statement of consistency, when it comes to at least one of the items in the declaration, FPIC, free prior informed consent. How can Regular MLAs honestly say that they have done consultation with Indigenous governments about FPIC for their bills coming forward? It's just an impossible barrier to get over. Absolutely impossible. But Cabinet just threw it in the bill. Didn't even bother to ask us. I'm really upset about this. That's not to say I don't support this. But we don't have the resources to do this kind of work but just thrown in by Cabinet, didn't bother to talk to us. One more hurdle for Private Member's bills. I think I'll leave it at that, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. To the motion.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Committee Report 55-19(2)?

Thank you, committee. We've concluded consideration of Committee Report 55-19(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Bill 85: United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Bill 85, United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act. I will ask the Premier, the Minister responsible for the Executive and Indigenous Affairs, to introduce the bill. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here to introduce Bill 85, United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act.

This bill represents an important step forward in advancing one of the priorities of the 19th Legislative Assembly tabled in October 2019 which directed this government to implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The drafting of this legislation has been done with Indigenous governments in a way that respects their diverse needs and priorities. This is consistent with the requirements on the GNWT set out in the United Nations Declaration when undertaking implementation. The collaborative development of the legislation, as well as the requirement in Bill 85 to collaboratively develop an action plan, is just a first step. This legislation will be yet another tool we have to formalize an ongoing relationship between the Government of the Northwest Territories and Indigenous governments to support the long-term work of implementing the United Nations Declaration in the Northwest Territories.

This government has taken significant steps forward to be inclusive. Among them, our co-development of legislation through the Intergovernmental Council and the inception of the Northwest Territories Council of Leaders have not only been resounding successes here, but are also being watched by other provinces and territories who are keen to learn from our progress and adapt our lessons into their own systems. Within this context, our consensus system includes distinct roles for Regular MLAs and for the executive. Among them, the executive works directly with Indigenous or other governments to advance shared priorities while Regular MLAs have the power and responsibility to debate, amend, and pass laws. Both functions are necessary to a healthy public government, and it is crucially important that the separation of these branches, consistent across all public governments in Canada, is respected in the way we implement the United Nations Declaration in the Northwest Territories.

I want to thank the Standing Committee on Government Operations for the opportunity to review the bill in detail on September 20th. It was helpful to provide some insight on the bill and receive clarity on the proposed amendments.

Madam Chair, we have much work ahead of us. We've gotten this far by working together, and we'll continue to do so as we advance the goal we have set for ourselves to implement the United Nations Declaration in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Chair. That concludes my opening remarks.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

Yes, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Madam Premier, would you introduce your witnesses for the record.

Thank you, Madam Chair. On my right, I have Mr. Martin Goldney, the deputy minister of executive and Indigenous affairs. On my left is Anne-Marie Guedon, the manager of Indigenous affairs. And, in fact, on the right behind me is Christina Duffy who is the legislative drafter. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. And welcome. I'll turn to the chair of Standing Committee on Government Operations, the committee that reviewed the bill, for any opening comments on Bill 85. Member for Yellowknife North.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I just will make some general comments on my thoughts. I think we as the government are in a pretty good place in implementing UNDRIP. We have a bill here before us today which is, you know, essentially identical to the ones passed by the federal government and British Columbia with a few minor tweaks. You know, there was a bit of a debate whether we should have done this earlier in the Assembly or a bit of a debate whether we should not have done it at all. I think, you know, getting it done within the life of this Assembly, considering it's a bill that -- you know, the reality is that it doesn't really accomplish anything. It's a plan to create a plan.

The real details are in the government's action plan that is to come. But I want to commend the government and the Premier for all of the work on getting agreement with Indigenous governments. Even after, you know, the MOU was signed and the bill was tabled, I note that the Premier went out and her staff went out, and Salt River and IRC have now signed onto the MOU. So, you know, there's still hope that we could eventually get everyone to the table, which is really what the goal of, I think, this government has been, and the Premier's goal has been, with the Council of Leaders and other similar bodies.

I look forward to following the work of the action plan committee and seeing, you know, what we really can do. We've now seen a federal version of the action plan. We've seen what BC has done. We've seen some of their failings. And I think there's an opportunity yes, for us to go well beyond what they're doing, get it right, and be true leaders in implementing UNDRIP.

I would like to thank everyone for their work in committee, thank all of the communities we visited, and all of the people who provided submissions. This work is just getting started. It will make many more years to come but I do think it is a moment to be proud of. And I am happy that, you know, despite perhaps some hesitancy, we got it done in the life of this Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 85. Are there any general comments? Member for Deh Cho.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I want to express a few concerns I have with this bill. I know at the outset when UNDRIP was being discussed, for quite some time, even in 2019, I think there was high hopes that it would be implemented by all levels of government across the country which would give a lot of autonomy to Indigenous governments. That's what I saw then. But then being in this government -- or not the government, I should clarify that.

Seeing the actions of this government and how they deal with First Nations governments in the Northwest Territories, I sense that there's lots of disrespect when dealing with First Nations that haven't settled their self-government agreements. And what I see happening leading up to this was -- I think it was the year 2014, the devolution agreement and the creation of the Intergovernmental Council. When the creation was there, what was dangled in front of everybody was money. I mean, large chunks of cash. Some were getting, you know, $200,000 or $300,000. And they all signed on the dotted line.

The unity that the Dene people had, Indigenous organizations had, was broken at that point. It was all because of money. Prior to that, all First Nations within the territories were unified. It was one nation, and that was witnessed through the birth of the Indian Brotherhood of the Northwest Territories which brought all First Nations groups together. And that included the Metis. It went on to create the Dene Nation. Because of some dispute and some wanting to settle their claims, the comprehensive claims agreements, there was splintered groups, and everybody went on their own. But I wanted to express that the DFN, the Deh Cho First Nations, is not at the IGC table. They are still currently in negotiations which have been stalled for quite some time. And they are working on their own lands and resources and that's the big sticking point in any negotiations.

The Dene Nation, in the summer of 2022, the Wiilideh site, voted down the UNDRIP because they needed more clarity and a lot of it was the stickler with article 46.

I can't explain that article 46 very well. I think I would need a lawyer to really decipher and disseminate all that for me. I think I've asked the Premier's office to, but I wasn't getting any answers there.

You know, I'm just wondering what the rush is to implement this when all First Nations are not on board. There was no, you know, going out to the communities to talk to all First Nations, even at the Assemblies, which is the important part where everybody -- where the Premier and her party should have been at the Assemblies. They were never there. Never. Not at any of these Assemblies. That's, you know, a shame that that didn't come to fruition. When you're going to bring about something that's highly important, if you figure it's highly important for the First Nations, you're controlling them, you should have been there. You weren't at that Dene Nation meeting.

And I'm just wondering, you know, you always operate on critical mass. It's majority votes that you get. That's all you operate on. And I'm not even sure if we even looked at what are the ramifications to the GNWT legislation and financial resources. There's concerns there. You know, it's good to move on this, all right, but, you know, there are -- there wasn't a lot of informed and meaningful dialogue, meaningful consultation. I think there's federal legislation in that regard. There was nothing of that happening. And I don't want to just see it as a -- you know, our Premier leaving a legacy for herself saying well, we've introduced UNDRIP. That's what I did. You know, if that's all what it's about. Because the whole thing wasn't fleshed out with all groups, all Indigenous groups. We're leaving out the DFN and the Akaitcho.

And the Premier knows since I started my concerns with that, with this whole IGC first, where's the DFN? They make the Deh Cho First Nations look like the bad group but in fact they're not. They are strongly stating they are on unceded unsurrendered territory and will not give up their treaty rights. And after consultation with Deh Cho First Nations grand chief, I'll be voting to abstain from this motion. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member. Are there any other general comments? Seeing none, can we proceed -- oh, Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. So I've spent most of my adult life here in the Northwest Territories actually supporting and advocating for Indigenous rights. I came up here in 1985 to work at the Dene Nation. It's kind of ironic I'm at the point now, you know, we've got this bill in front of us to try to implement Indigenous rights, and I've got very serious concerns about it. That is just -- I'm finding this very difficult. And I think part of it is the way the bill was drafted and put together.

You know, when I look at this bill, there just -- okay, part of the problem is that people conflate us MLAs as part of the Government of the Northwest Territories. The other side of the House is part of the Government of the Northwest Territories. That's the executive branch. But there's very little appreciation or understanding of what the legislative branch is all about and what the role is of Regular MLAs. You know, part of our job, and most of our job, is to actually hold Cabinet to account for what they promise, for what they say. Maybe once in a while we get some input into what they develop and bring forward. And that's the way consensus government is supposed to work. But I think it's going to be increasingly hard for Regular MLAs to do their jobs if the bill is passed in its current form. And the reason why I say that is because this bill will significantly -- as I said earlier is going to significantly change the way the House business, the legislative agenda, the work of committees; it's all going to change, and it's going to change -- it could change quite dramatically. And it probably should. But the Regular MLAs are going to be kind of kept in the dark about a lot of this, the way the bill has been put together. So, yeah, that's, I guess, one of my biggest fears here is the only role that I can see for Regular MLAs in this bill, other than our ordinary roles as, you know, making Member statements, asking questions in the House, you know, committees can invite Ministers in, public hearings, you know, we can discuss things, recommend things. But the only role in here is to get a notice if there's going to be a shared decision-making agreement negotiation starting. That's it. Or the Ministers identified as having some authority to go off and negotiate. That's the only role for Regular MLAs in the bill. But I'd like to ask the Minister am I misinterpreting something? Where else specifically in this bill is there a role for Regular MLAs? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Am I just answering the one question or the two? Just the one.

Question to the Member.

Within this bill, I mean, like the Member pointed out that they were given notice -- or advice if there's a shared agreement that's to be signed.

Madam Chair, I'd like to say that within a lot of the acts in the Northwest Territories, they don't define the roles of Members that I can point out. I may be wrong. If that's wrong, then please correct me. But I don't think that's the role of acts. The acts defines what shall happen and then the roles of Regular Members are in our legislative protocol that we all adhere before a bill gets passed in the House. They have a chance for questions and answers, they have their own roles, and those maintained. But, again, going back to not every act in the Northwest Territories has the roles of Regular Members that I can point out. Thank you, Madam Chair.