Yeah, no, thank you for that. Yeah, I think we're not like a lot of the governments that the Premier described that have party systems. This is supposed to be a consensus government. So the way that the bill has been drafted now -- and I think this was a helpful addition -- was that, you know, Regular MLAs will now at least get notice if negotiations -- a Minister's authorized to begin negotiations on a shared decision-making agreement. But the only time -- there's no requirement -- there's nothing in the bill about what happens with those agreements other than they're going to get published at the end of the day in the gazette, which not like anybody even reads. And I guess they're going to be published on a website as well thanks to the committee. But, you know, what happens between the time that a Minister's authorized to negotiate something and an agreement is reached; is there any opportunity for Regular MLAs to know what's happening inside the bill, outside the bill? How's that going to happen? Thank, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, as I stated, the MLA has pointed out that I am not good at communicating with standing committee. I guess I'll take ownership. I was in the last Cabinet. I thought the same MLA had said that we were better than the last Cabinet, but perhaps not, and did state that the next government has to do better. I do believe, Madam Chair, that we all have to work at being better all the time. So I do think that's a process.

But I also think, Madam Chair, the Member has many times stated about consensus government. Consensus government is not about just getting your way, Madam Chair, in my opinion. Consensus government is about sitting around the table looking for compromises, looking at flexibility. When this was brought forward to myself, as the Minister applicable for this, by committee, we did make a compromise with committee. But I'm hearing now that the Member doesn't like the compromise. And that is consensus government. It's about being flexible. It's about compromising so that all Members' needs will be ideally satisfied. Maybe not get a hundred percent of what you want. But that's the reality of consensus government; we all have a say. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Well, I don't think I can possibly respond to everything that I heard there. But, you know, I'm not here to get my way. If that's why any of us are here, we're here for the wrong reasons. I'm here to try to serve my constituents and try to think about the broader public interest. I've always tried to increase transparency, openness, accountability, as a public government. That's why I'm here so it's not about getting my way. Yeah, I'll leave that aside for now.

You know, I guess the issue here is the only way for Regular MLAs to hold the Cabinet to account with regard to these shared decision-making agreements is once they're publicly released because there's no other requirement. I think the process convention might allow for the Minister and Cabinet to come to the Regular MLAs and say, you know what, we've actually got this arrangement we've negotiated and by the way here's actually a draft. We'd like to get your input before it's signed. You know, we put a lot of time and effort into this. Maybe even an update or two along the way depending on the scope and whatever of the agreement. You know, if it's a simple administrative delegation of something, that's probably not a big deal. But if it's, you know, giving decision-making in a major program area to a government, an Indigenous government that might have implications for other things, I don't know. But the only way it seems that Regular MLAs would be able to hold Cabinet to account is after the agreement's released publicly and then, you know -- but it could be a legally binding agreement that's already signed and nothing could be done at that point. So how can Regular MLAs hold Cabinet to account for these shared decision-making agreements? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam. Premier.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I've already said that I agree in principle with this, and I will take issue with the Premier's comments. This is not about me trying to exclude Indigenous governments from getting to shared decision-making agreements. This is about trying to find out how Regular MLAs can have a say in agreements before they're finalized. And it's about MLAs doing their job. I'm just not prepared to give Cabinet a bank cheque, I guess. So that's what I think this is about. But in any event, Madam Chair, I do want to move to a motion if I could.

Go ahead. Member for Frame Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 85 be amended by adding the following after subclause 12(2):

(2.1) Before entering into an agreement under this section, a Minister authorized under subsection (1) shall provide notice to and seek comments from the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight, or any successor committee that may be established by the Legislative Assembly. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I just find it a little bit ironic that standing committee will get notice now of an agreement being negotiated and then there doesn't seem to be any mechanism or way to have any input into that or oversight, dare I say, or ability to comment, ability to work together, other than at the whim of a Minister. And because I don't -- I'm not sure where we're going with all this stuff. I'm not afraid of it. I agree with it. I support it.

But I think if we're going to do constitutional development, you should come at it with that perspective and that kind of mindset. And in any event, this motion is really about trying to find a way for the Regular MLAs to have some better knowledge, understanding, of what is going to be negotiated and an opportunity to comment on it. It's not about interfering with it. It's not about trying to change it. It's about trying to understand what's happening. Otherwise, there's no other way to hold Cabinet to account until after the agreement's done. And I don't think that's a good place to be. That's all I can say. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. This motion just says that before we enter into one of these agreements, they're going to come to AOC and say, you got any thoughts. I found it odd the Premier said that, you know, we enter into agreements all the time without talking to Regular Members because it's actually been exact opposite in my experience. I think I got two briefings on the offshore accord negotiations before we actually signed them. I think we -- I got a briefing on almost every single land claim and what was going on through the special committee on reconciliation in Indigenous affairs. I mean, maybe officials weren't as forthcoming as I would have liked at times but there certainly was no sense that they were going not tell us anything before they signed an agreement. We actually got to see some of the correspondence on the carbon tax negotiations that was actually sent to the Ministers.

Similar when we were -- the feds were in negotiation for child care and the health care deal. So, you know, I felt whenever we've asked for a briefing on hey, where are you at with this, Ministers are more than willing to come and tell us what they're doing with the feds. And they do it in-camera. And I just expect if, you know, a Minister's going to enter into a shared decision-making on education or something, they would go to the applicable standing committee and say I'm about to sign this, this is what's happening, you got any thoughts? And, you know, sometimes they take the thoughts and sometimes they ignore them. But, you know, I'm kind of given the heads up and listening. It seems to already occur. I don't see any issue with this motion of kind of formalizing what we already do. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. To the motion. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I'll start by saying I'm really glad that Ministers, including myself, are working with standing committee. That's what the goal is.

But I agree with the Member that the Government of the Northwest Territories is the public government and must remain accountable to the public. I commend the Member's commitment to accountability. That is why in our consensus government system, MLAs have significant authority when it comes to ministerial accountability. This will not change as a result of the United Nations Declaration of Indigenous Peoples Implementation. MLAs elect Ministers to represent all residents of the NWT. And I expect that all Ministers will work appropriately with MLAs and provide notice under our process conventions whenever required.

I also understand why notice for every shared decision-making negotiation is concerning to the Indigenous governments and organizations. If MLAs have concerns about the performance of a Minister, there are a number of ways these concerns can be raised, both directly with the Minister or in the Legislative Assembly. Shared decision-making will necessarily require a balancing of interests and is meant to help advance reconciliation. There may be authorizations that are straightforward and not at all controversial. There may also be others that Indigenous governments and organizations prefer not to be made immediately a public concern even before a Minister can give full and fair consideration to a proposal. That's why a blanket requirement to involve MLAs in each and every shared decision-making agreement that is proposed is not supported.

The Member is correct that there are not a lot of examples to draw experience from when it comes to shared decision-making. I look forward to seeing how such agreements may come forward in the context of the Northwest Territories. Perhaps with the benefit of experience, apprehension over the MLA's concern at the beginning of shared decision-making agreement negotiations would dissipate.

Madam Chair, Cabinet will not be supporting this motion. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. To the motion. I will go to the mover of the motion for any closing remarks. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I'm just not sure I have anything further to say. I'm really tired, I just -- yeah, I think this was a good discussion and debate. I don't expect that it's going to pass but I want to, I guess, get on the record that I think whoever's negotiating these agreements in the future -- and I don't think there's any reason to be afraid of them. Some people are going to say that about whatever I said but that's fine.

I guess two things: I think Ministers doing their job well in a consensus government system, they should be coming to standing committee. They shouldn't just wait for the committee to come and ask them. And they should be providing regular updates about what's -- how things are going, what they're doing. And I don't think it has to be for every single shared decision-making agreement. You know, delegating some administrative stuff, who cares. But if it's a cool subject matter like education, as my colleague from Yellowknife North said yeah, that's an important thing that might have implications for how we set up school boards and, you know, Yellowknife pays taxes, other communities don't. How's all that going to work? So for some of them, yeah, it's going to require more intensive work with standing committees. That can be done outside of the bill and probably should under the process conventions, but. So that's one point.

The second point, you know, if we really want to get at constitutional development, we should come to it with that mind. Shared decision-making agreements are good but what we really need to do is start to think about constitutional development and what is the government -- what is the Government of the Northwest Territories as a public government going to look like? So in any event, I offer that as a comment. We tried to get an Electoral Boundaries Commission to actually look at that question at one point, but we couldn't do it. But I think we do need to start to turn our mind to constitutional development in the Northwest Territories. And this bill, I think, might help facilitate that as well.

But in any event, I don't expect this is going to pass, but I do want Cabinet to take note of my comments and, whoever the next Minister is, to make sure that they come and work with Regular MLAs as these things are being negotiated. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. To the motion.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is defeated.

---Defeated.

Clause 12, does committee agree?