This is page numbers 5309 - 5352 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I do know that within the Indigenous treaty land claims, self-government agreements, the cabin issue is addressed in many of them so that is one way of doing it. I also know that it's gotten a lot of attention recently because of the work that the Minister of Lands is doing with the unauthorized occupants in the Northwest Territories of which there are lots. We are trying to work with the Indigenous governments on rights-based cabins to give them the money to help them to identify the cabins that are theirs. We've posted. We've posted twice on people's -- we don't know who's rights-based and who's not; it's an issue for us. It's an issue that keeps continuing to grow. The definition of "a rights-based cabin" is an issue as well. So we are looking at how we can support them, but it's work that will be ongoing. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Speaker. I know that lands is posting notices and they are not getting uptake, and there are a lot of Indigenous governments who are specifically telling their members do not identify your cabin. And I think there's a history there because what then happens is you have to get a lease and then you have to pay lease fees and then you have to pay taxes. And so why would you do that when you could just have your cabin for free? And I think the step here is right now there is a wild inconsistency on which Indigenous rights holders are paying anything for their cabins, which -- and so I think we need to create some sort of status, and I would suggest exempting rights-based cabins from lease fees and taxes. The reason I'm directing this to the Premier is because it is actually a Department of Lands, a Department of MACA, and a Department of Finance and that I'm quite sure that EIA is going to want to have its hands on what they actually define as a rights-based cabin. So it really is a complicated matter.

Is looking into exempting rights-based cabins from lease fees and taxes something the Premier is willing to do? Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I do appreciate the Member recognizing that it is not an easy issue. It's contentious not only within our definitions of how we define it but also contentious within Indigenous governments. We have some Indigenous governments that feel that they can put cabins anywhere in the NWT. We have other Indigenous governments saying not on my land. Those are issues that are alive and well. So I'm not going to commit in the House here about the solution. What I am committed to, and I've already brought that to the Council of Leaders, is that is a discussion that will go to the Council of Leaders. In fairness, Madam Speaker, I need all Indigenous governments to help me solve this. I need them to define what it is first. And so it would be inappropriate for me as the Premier to define how and what without the Indigenous governments having those consultations. And it's not going to be easy. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. You know, it's back to that chicken and egg problem. No one is going to tell you it's a rights-based cabin if it means they all of a sudden have to start paying taxes and lease fees and they're presently not doing that. And we can't exempt them from taxes and lease fees unless we identify a definition of whether it's a rights-based cabin. So this is why this issue has not been solved. I think at the very least, there are a number of obviously rights-based cabins where they were told to get a lease, they perhaps did not understand what that meant, they perhaps got direction from their Indigenous government to not pay lease fees, and now we are sending those people to collections and ruining their credit. I'm quite convinced that the Department of Finance is just doing this, triggering it automatically, because when they don't get paid they go through a collections process.

Is the Premier willing to stop sending those rights holders to collections until we figure out some sort of path forward? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As stated earlier, I have -- and it took a lot of work to get that item on the Council of Leaders' agenda. I feel it would be disrespectful for me at this point to make decisions since it is on their agenda as a topic. So I'm going to wait until those conversations happen at that table, and then we'll make decisions based on that feedback. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Final supplementary. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, Madam Speaker, one of the other things that I grow frustrated about is that there is no definition of a rights-based cabin. Right now, Lands wants you to identify them but they say they have no tool to give you a special form of tenure. They make it clear they will send you a lease fee. I think you can get an exemption from taxes, but it seems to be very inconsistent. It's unclear to me what someone with a rights-based cabin is actually supposed to do, or what the government wants them to do. So perhaps following that Council of Leaders, can I get a commitment that EIA will put something out publicly on a plan forward and task each of the departments going forward with what they are supposed to be doing because right now, I don't think anyone really knows. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would love to make that commitment, but I don't think it would be fair to EIA to make that commitment yet. I think this issue is going to be very, very tenuous at the Council of Leaders' table. I don't know if it's going to be resolved in one month, one year, ten years. So I can't commit EIA to doing that because it may -- if it's in this government, then I'll be looking at it. If it's in the next government, I can't commit the next government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Oral questions. Written questions. Returns to written questions. Replies to the Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Reports of standing and special committees. Tabling of documents. Madam Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following five documents: The Annual Status Report 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories; the Annual Report of the Implementation Committee - Deline Final Self-Government Agreement April 1st, 2018 to March 31st, 2019; Consolidated Report of the Implementation Committee - Gwich'in Comprehensive Land Claim Agreement April 1st, 2018 to March 31st, 2021; the Inuvialuit Final Agreement Annual Report 2018-2021; and, the Report of the Implementation Committee for the Tlicho Agreement 2019/2020. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents: Grants and Contributions Results Report 2021-2022; and, What We Heard Report 2022 Engagement on Resource Royalties. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, Bill 23, Bill 29, Minister's Statement 264-19(2), Tabled Document 681-19(2), Tabled Document 694-19(2), and Tabled Document 813-19(2), with Member for Deh Cho in the chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Committee wishes to deal with Tabled Document 813-19(2), 2023-2024 Main Estimates, Housing NWT. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

There's a motion on the floor and is non-debatable. All those in favour?

Committee, we will take a short recess and resume with the first item. Mahsi.

---SHORT RECESS

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Welcome back, everyone. Committee, we will continue with Housing Northwest Territories. We were reviewing the Main Estimates 2023-2024. Minister, have you witnesses?

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Yes, I've got two witnesses.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Sergeant-at-arms, can you escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, can you introduce your witnesses, please.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have with me here is Ms. Eleanor Young, CEO and president of Housing NWT. And associate deputy minister Jim Martin. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi. Committee, we were on the finance and infrastructure services. That's page 382 to 385. The first speaker I had on the list was the Member for Monfwi. 385, that's the finance and infrastructure services, towards the back end.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

I was going to ask the Minister yesterday regarding this mortgage payment and social housing agreement, 2021-2022 that says 313, and 2023 I just want to know why it's less here compared to now. There's a big gap in between, and I just wanted to know if mortgage payment was forgiven in this area. Like, some mortgage, were they forgiven? Because it's 313 compared to 955, why is it less?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Was that your question?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Yes, why is it less, yes. Are they giving people a break? Like, this 2021 -- I know it might be related to COVID, I'm not too sure. But it's lesser than to current to the main estimate for 2023-2024.