No, thanks for that. And, yeah, for anyone who's listening or reads this, I really encourage them to look at the return on social investment study that was done. There's come great quotes in there from clients that have been assisted and turned their lives around and so on. And I guess it'll be one more matter for the transition report. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Are there any further questions from -- no, nothing? Okay. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And, Madam Chair, I wanted to talk about integrated case management as well. And I appreciate that my colleague to my left asked some of the questions that I had as well. But it actually led to a little bit of confusion for me.

So I get that ICM is kind of a team of pathfinders that then go and take people kind of from door to door of government departments to help them access all the services they might need whereas integrated service delivery doesn't use pathfinders because the whole idea there is breaking down the silos between departments so that you don't need pathfinders; you actually have government able to work to together. I get that. But in the questions that my colleague just asked, he asked what's the plan for the future and he was told there is no plan, and then in a subsequent question was told that the department is currently looking at ways to expand. And so there isn't a plan but there is a plan. And so I'm wondering if the Minister can clarify what actually is the intended future of integrated case management versus integrated service delivery? Because over the last four years, we've had integrated case management. People in this room have said hey, what about my community? People in my community are also struggling and falling through the gaps within the departments and trying to access services, and we have not seen any on the ground change in the last four years. And while we've kind of been trying to push integrated service delivery and trusting the government to be doing this work, on the flip side we're not seeing any change on the ground.

And so my question to the Minister is what is the plan, because while I appreciate the Minister says I can't say what's going to happen in the future but that's why you have a plan, so that you can say what's going to happen in the future. So that's my question, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Thank you. The current plan is to look at other demonstration sites that we call ICM; in Yellowknife, a demonstration site. Looking at ways to create demonstration sites in other communities. However, I would say that there are other initiatives that might overtake this and perhaps change that plan going forward. So, yes, there's a plan. I'm not confident that that plan is the actual path forward. And I'm sorry if that's cryptic but this is -- we are going through, you know, some discussions and some soul searching about what we want to do in terms of integrated service delivery. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So we have a plan, but we might not use that plan, is what I'm now hearing.

So if we have a plan but we might not use that plan, I'm guessing that some soul searching has already happened in order to kind of get to the point where we can say yes, we have a plan but we might not use that plan. And so I'm wondering if it is the intent of this Minister to kind of share with this House what lessons have been learned in the course of the last almost four years as this department has very much worked hard towards integrated service delivery and I have nothing but good things to say about ICM and integrated case management. I've had the opportunity to work with them with constituents. They've been nothing but amazing and helpful. But this is definitely something that needs to expand outside of Yellowknife. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Thank you. I would love to see this in every single community in the Northwest Territories. I think that would be great if we had people that could, you know, assist clients in need everywhere. So thank you.

Thank you. Did you have further questions? Okay. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, in regards to the work that needs to be done to do this soul searching on this plan that might not be used, is there a staff member dedicated to this work, or staff members dedicated to this work, and if so, where within the main estimates do they live? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Thank you. So one of the issues here is that this budget is this budget. In this budget, there is not funds to expand integrated case management to other jurisdictions or other areas in the territory. So I can't speak for what the next government will do so that is why I say there's a plan. Will it happen? I'm not sure. If I was around, I think I might go in a different direction. I can get the deputy minister to expand on the Member's question, though. Thank you.

Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you so much, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, the director, are they in directorate? Are they in community justice? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Directorate. Thank you.

Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And my next question is this work and this position best placed within the Department of Justice, or would it make more sense for this position and this work to be placed within EIA if it is -- if the intent is an all-of-government approach that needs some teeth in order to move people in that direction? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Thank you. And I've had a number of conversations with the Member about this. You know, I think that integrated service delivery is something that needs to be -- I guess be dictated from the top down. So I think that under the Premier's office would, you know, be a fine location for that. However, integrated case management is with Justice and the staff know how to operate that program. They've been doing a great job. And so that is why it is continuing to be in the -- in Justice in this budget. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. No further questions from you? Okay. Are there -- I just want to before -- because we have -- we have to sit past the hour if we want to get finished. So I just want to see how many people left want to speak to this item and so that way if we don't have to make the motion to sit past and then the staff, we can finish up this item and they don't have to come back tomorrow. Unless you want to do the motion now and then get it over and done with and we don't sit, we don't sit. Okay. Member for Frame Lake.