Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Okay, thanks, that's good to hear. And maybe we need to increase it, but. You know, I guess the department has capped the ability of daycare providers to capture -- or get revenues from parents. They're also requiring -- will be requiring operators to pay staff more and to have them trained and properly certified. Those are all good things. But they're being squeezed at both ends now. So where in the budget would I find money increasing to daycare providers as an operator subsidy or the support for them; where do I find that? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. So this would be the section, the early learning and child care section. Most of this money flows to the providers. We have a number of programs that support both day homes and day care centres. They're funded on a per child basis. We've increased the funding for staff for day homes. We are working on amending our per child funding as well to ensure that it is more responsive to the needs of child care centres and day homes. I mean, it's a pretty big question. I'll -- I won't just list all of our programs. I'll hand it back to the Member. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Okay, thanks for that. So has the department actually done an analysis to say gee, you know, as a sector, they've reduced income with the capping of the fees as X amount and the increased expenditures is Y amount, because of the training requirements, certification, the pay grid that's going to come in, so we need to increase it by Z amount. Have we calculated X, Y, Z? Thanks -- and does X plus Y equal Z. Thanks, Madam Chair.

I don't know, but Minister of ECE.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. It's been a while since I've done any algebra. But the plan is to develop the programs going forward in conjunction, or in cooperation with the sector to ensure that we have all those numbers and that in the end we are providing child care centres and day homes with the funding that will allow them to be sustainable while still ensuring that our own funding is sufficient. So we only have limited dollars, and we are doing our best to ensure stability and stay within that budget. This is a massive system change. It hasn't been as smooth as I would have liked. If I could do it again, I would definitely make some changes. But that's the situation we're in. We realize that we need to get people on board. We need to be partners with everyone and so we are making those efforts. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks. Well, I agree with the Minister's assessment. I think part of this is because we signed onto the agreement late. It was late in the financial year and one of the things that had to be done was to make sure that parents had reduced fees, which meant capping the ability for daycare operators to capture revenues.

So if that kind of analysis hasn't been done, it's not a good -- we're not in a good place. And, yeah, if I -- if it could be rolled out again, I'd probably start with the carrots rather than the sticks. So how is the department going to provide some reassurance and confidence to operators that there is going to be more money available to them to deal with these restrictions on income and increased expenditures? And, look, this is all good stuff, I'm not questioning it, I think it's good. But they need -- we need to change the messaging and the bigger picture that we're communicating. And I think that's led to a lot of problems so how is that going to be fixed? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. And going back, you know, we needed to reduce fees by 50 percent by the end of 2022. I wanted to get money into families' pockets earlier than that and so I take full responsibility for the quick rollout and the poor relationships. Going back I would have not reduced fees so early. It would have -- you know, we would have -- we would not have put that money back in parents' pockets but the health of the sector, the long-term health I think is what is of the utmost importance. So, you know, that's -- you know, that's something that I learned from. Can I -- one second, please.

And in terms of sufficient funding, the Government of Canada, our agreement with them, increases year after year. The first year we receive less. More money will be received every subsequent year. So our budgets will go up. As we work through these regulations, we'll be able to put a finer point on some of those issues that the Member is talking about.

We did do modelling while we were negotiating this agreement. You know, that led to massive changes in what was being requested from us from the Government of Canada. But until you're actually on the ground working with people one-on-one and the providers and seeing all those numbers in real time, it's difficult to get an accurate accounting. So as we move forward and develop these regulations and work with providers, we hope to settle on a system that everyone's happy with. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. And thanks for that from the Minister. I guess -- yeah, I get that there's money for this but what I think you need to do is to change the messaging a little bit. Probably more than a little bit. But you want to instill some confidence and rebuild some trust here that there is more money for day home operators, for child cares, and it's coming. And some of that needs to be coming out of this budget. And you need to make that the message now, because you're restricting their ability to raise money, you're also increasing their costs. You're not telling them that you're going to increase their funding. So can we start to deliver that message, Madam Chair? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. And I'll say right now, to everyone, all the day homes, day cares listening, we are going to increase funding. We've told them that at the meetings. We have early childhood association meetings. The department has been meeting with them trying to make the -- repair those relationships. I know that discussions and meetings don't always make it out to everyone and so perhaps that's part of the issue. But we're also seeing entrepreneurs who have looked at the environment, the current operating environment, and decided to open day homes and so they are in -- we're now in the process of licensing a number of day home operators and we expect those to come online, you know, in the near future. So the situation we have right now, it is -- it's something someone has looked at and said, you know what, I can make a go at that. So, again, I'll admit there's a lot of work to be done. There's a significant amount of work to be done. There's a significant amount of collaboration that needs to happen and funds that need to be spent, and we are committed to doing that. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any further questions to the early learning and child care section? Seeing none, please turn to page 43.

Education, Culture and Employment, early learning and child care, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $22,969,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you. Can you please turn now to income security, beginning on page 48 with information items on page 49 and 50. Questions? Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to talk a bit about I guess basic income. We're talking -- we're providing income anyway, assistance to people. And basic income, you know, it's been batted around. We talk about it. There's been, you know, people -- different jurisdictions have tried it, and some of the things that came out of it it is shown that, you know, people who receive it are less likely to be hospitalized, likely more willing to continue education. It also doesn't discourage people from working. It helps them to, you know, get out there and actually look for work as well. So I'm just wondering has the department assessed what the number for a basic income would be for the NWT? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. You know, there were numbers batted around in previous years. There was not a number that I felt that I would be able to put forward given our fiscal constraints so instead what we did is we looked at revamping the income assistance program, creating a new program for seniors and persons with disability that is really much more like a guaranteed basic income because those individuals will only have to apply once a year and not report their income monthly. So I can leave it at that. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Like I said, is that we're already paying income support anyway and so the difference we'd be looking at is what we're already paying and what's required. So have we actually looked at that cost to see what that -- what that difference would be to, say, bump it to up to a basic income. Thank you.