Thanks. I guess I'm trying to understand what the Minister just said. So we anticipate having to spend less in 2023-2024 because we're going to get more money from the federal government for medical travel; is that what I think the Minister said? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, thank you. Since 2004, we've had a fund called the territorial health initiative fund, and we've used it for special projects like creating NTHSSA and starting the primary care health reform. But we've also allocated $5 million in the current agreement each year towards the cost of medical travel. So this agreement expires on March the 31st this year, and so we did not include that amount of money in the budget because we do not yet have an assurance that we're going to have an extension to the territorial health initiative fund or for how much money.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Okay, thanks. Maybe I'm just not getting this but how much then do we actually expect to spend on medical travel in 2023-2024 then? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes. I'm sorry that I'm not explaining it. We have federal money. We don't have assurance of how much it is. So it's not in the budget. Hopefully everything works out by the end of the month and it comes into the budget and we add it to this line. But the actual cost is what you see in the revised estimates for 2022-2023, $24,240,000. That doesn't include the NIHB amount. The total amount of medical travel is in the range of $43 million. Medical travel is an as-and-when situation. When people need medical travel, we pay for them to go on medical travel. And if there is not enough money in the budget for that, then we ask for a supplementary appropriation to cover whatever shortfall there is in our budget to make medical travel possible.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Okay, thanks, Madam Chair. So if this extra federal money gets sorted out in the next while, will it come back into the health and social services budget then through supplementary appropriation, is that the plan? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, thank you. Yes, that's right. It would come in through supplementary appropriation. Now all the money we receive on doing work on behalf of others is brought into the budget through a supplementary appropriation.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks. Yeah, I guess I'm -- I don't know, I know it's late and I'm just trying to understand how we can only budget $19 million for medical travel benefits in 2023-2024 when we anticipate spending probably even more than $24 million. How does that work? Like, why wouldn't we just actually budget the expected amount and show a deficit maybe back on the revenue side or something. I just don't understand how we -- you know, we spend $24 million, but we're only budgeting 19 for this year when we know we're actually going to spend more. I just don't understand how that budgeting works. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister of Health and Social Services.

I think I'm going to ask the director of finance to have a go at this and maybe that will provide more clarity.

Thank you. Ms. Johnson.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This federal agreement, we anticipated it being renewed. So in the past when there was uncertainty, we did have it appropriated through the business planning process and then had to come back and have it reprofiled. So in this case with the anticipated funding, it was just -- it's not included in the budget but anticipated through sup.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I just -- I don't understand how this works that you -- we anticipate spending more money in this area, and I guess the hope is that somehow the feds are going to bail us out but the proper amount hasn't been shown in the budget. So I don't think I'm going to get an answer. Thanks, Madam Chair. That's it.

Thank you. Are there any other further questions to supplementary health benefits? Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I wanted to ask some questions about the medical travel benefits. This is something that I know has come up quite a bit over the course of the term, and my understanding is this is quite common. And the focus of the questions largely have been around the amount that is offered to residents when it comes to medical travel, especially with the -- sorry, in especially in relation to per diems for the cost for food and the cost for accommodations.

One of the issues that has come up and was highlighted was specific to the -- or the additional cost of somebody bringing kids into Yellowknife for the purposes of -- for birthing purposes.

Somebody might not have child care in their home community, and they might need to bring their kids with them and are unable -- if they bring their kids with them, they -- it is considered more than one escort. Each child is considered an escort. And what ends up happening is they're denied government-funded lodging and they have to go and find their own place to stay. And so if they find themselves in a hotel situation, they're only reimbursed for the $50 and this is not representative of what it actually costs a family to stay in a hotel.

The concern that's been raised to me is this ends up being not a culturally safe policy. And a lot of people might be in a situation where they just -- because of their own personal histories don't feel comfortable leaving their children with someone else and need to bring their children with them to Yellowknife or wherever they are having children. So I'm wondering if while this amount of money is, you know, $5,000 -- or 5,000, geesh, $5 million less than what the department would like to see, is there an intent to revise some of the policy work around medical travel to make it more culturally safe for all residents of the territory? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, as I mentioned earlier, there is a review of medical travel ongoing now, and the per diems are one of the areas that will be reexamined. In terms of bringing additional children to -- with the family when they are coming in for the birth of a child, I would recommend that the family contact child and family services and explore a voluntary services agreement to pay for the cost of the additional children coming in to Yellowknife. I realize that the Member is now going to say that's not culturally safe and people don't want anything to do with child and family services. But we don't have another way of assisting families unless they have their own ways of raising money. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.