This is page numbers 6211 - 6256 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, is anyone else putting money into the fish plant, the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, the federal government, anyone else? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there's been significant contributions from the federal government overall to both the building of the fish plant and to the fishing industry. So I do want to acknowledge that, actually quite a significant amount. I don't know that it's going anything to this specific item although I will note it's my recollection that CANNOR was quite heavily involved in procuring some of the equipment that's gone in. Again, so there's been a lot of supports, but just not perhaps on this particular element of the fish strategy. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So is it expected that the fish plant is going to generate any revenues, and how would that offset this amount of money, and when would it kind of show up? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So we're hoping on there being just over a million dollars this year, and then increasing next year to over a $1.5 or $1.6, again depending on and subject to the amount of production that is available. Those revenues then offset the costs of running the plant. Certainly if production is higher, then there is more revenue that offsets further. And really can be hopefully a snowball approach, Madam Chair. There's more production, more fish for sale, more revenues, more fishers interested, the cost will -- the price of fish will go up as we're able to provide that supply to southern markets. So a lot of things are coming together but this is an important element of that strategy. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Okay, that's all good. Just in case anybody wonders, I do support this expenditure. I believe in economic diversification. As I've said, I love fish. I just hope that the price doesn't go up so much that I can't afford it. But I do support this. And I think it's good that we ask questions and maybe other Members may have some questions here as well. But I do support this funding. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I also have questions about the fish plant. Can the Minister tell me whether or not the opening of the fish plant will mean that fishers will receive more money per fillet or whole fish that they bring in than they are currently getting under the previous agreement or arrangement? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6229

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, right now the Northwest Territories remains the sole signatory to the Freshwater Fish Marketing Act, a federal piece of legislation. That provides a floor. So it provides a guarantee where fishers are guaranteed a certain income amount that comes on a regular basis to them. Unfortunately what the offset of that is as well it's a guarantee and a floor, it also creates a bit of a ceiling. We aren't able to take advantage of the markets that we now believe to be available to the very good product that we have coming out of the freshwater here in the Northwest Territories. So part of having the plant is that we would be able to then be certified to sell directly to southern markets and make a higher cost -- higher price per fish. To get there, though, we do still need to extricate from the Freshwater Fish Marketing Act. So this is one step in that process, Madam Chair. But there's another step, and that's going to get out of the act or to have exemptions. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. Why are we still the only ones in this arrangement that basically indentures our fishers to, you know, not paying them what their fish is worth? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6230

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, the federal government had indicated some -- you know, within -- for the last recent few years that they were going to be transitioning out of having the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, and given that it is their act and their system, certainly seemed logical to anticipate and wait for them to indeed perform that - to complete what they said they were going to do. I think they were hoping for some other solutions. I can't say as to why they haven't moved faster or what they've done or not done or why they have done or not done it.

What I can say is we are no longer going to be waiting for them, Madam Chair, and we are going to be looking for a path forward on that, whether it includes exemptions as a temporary measure to allow fishers to sell outside of the act's confines and/or, but probably and, crafting our own legislations so we can regulate our own sale of fish which would mean we would not be reliant on the Freshwater Fish Marketing Act. So could those things have happened a year or two years ago or three years ago, perhaps, but, again, waiting on the federal government, given that it is their act, was the path forward quite reasonably at the time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6230

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks for the answer. I wish we had gotten out of it sooner from what I hear.

My next question would be that why would we not take part of this $2.246 million and ensure that -- and use that money instead to pay the fishers more rather than operation of the fish plant because the operation costs will automatically start to be paid when more fish come through. So if we're not paying the fishers enough, we don't have enough coming into the plant, we operate at a deficit. We pay the fishers more to start with beginning this summer, then they bring more in, the fish plant has less operation costs to be borne by the government. I'm not understanding why this isn't what's happening. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6230

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, fishers do right now have the ability to apply through SEED force subsidies to support them with the cost of equipment. They are also being supported in terms of provided training, both in the winter and the summer fishery, and in the works right now is an effort to provide additional funding. Funding was already provided once last fiscal year and again this year to help support having mentors and trainees on the boats which would then support their labour needs. There is also -- has traditionally been and continues to be support -- subsidy support for freight, so freight is subsidized for fishers. And finally, Madam Chair, there is a subsidy supports for fish production in the Northwest Territories. We are looking at changing that and had sought the input of the Tu Cho, for one, in terms of what kind of subsidies might support and incentivize productions. So there's a balance to be struck between providing a subsidy direct to the fisher and wanting them to increase production and then also still wanting to get the plant opened so that it can provide that long-term solution that I was describing earlier of allowing fish to be sold directly. So we're trying to do all of the things with the fiscal capacity that we have. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

Page 6230

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not sure that that totally answered my question. I get that there's a balance. However, the fishers themselves have been asking for an increased payment for their fish. So I'm not sure how that then gets developed with cooperation of the Tu Cho themselves if the Tu Cho is telling me something different. Talking about subsidies and training and funding is great, but when we have an entire summer this summer where the fishers, there's is only a dozen or so of them, make no money, we won't attract new people here, we can't afford even one season of more fishers leaving, so I really think this is a bad plan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Comment.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Member for Hay River South.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 30th, 2023

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, you know, I guess I kind of agree with the Member for Great Slave that this is a bad plan. And when you look at this, we're looking at a business model here. We're looking at an industry that pulls off, you know, maybe a million dollars a year, $1.5. We're putting in two point -- we probably put $20 million roughly into a building, we're putting another two point some million dollars into operations, and maybe this is for the first year. Like, it just gets to be -- it gets to be out of whack.

We don't have a lot of fishers out there. But what the fishermen want -- like, I'm from Hay River, I talk to the fishers. There's so many -- there's the number of fishers that are actually with Tu Cho. There's some that aren't, and so I try to talk to everybody there to get a sense of what they want. What do they want? More money. They want more money. If you get more money and then that's hopefully entice new entrance into the market -- I mean, into the industry. But, again, to do that, we need a market. We have to have somebody that's willing to pay more for the fish as well, because right now if -- you know, if we're paying -- like, I don't think we're going to be -- I'm hoping we're not going to be paying $2.2 million a year to operate this thing when we're only pulling off a little over a million dollars of fish a year.

That leaves us very little room to, you know, to put back into it because a lot of that has to go back to the fishers. We've got a lot of work to do here. Like, I guess what we need to do is take a look exactly what the costs are. We need to look at what other costs -- what other funding that we are actually putting into the industry itself as well. Like, we know that there's other money going in from the GNWT. We know there's other money coming in from the federal government. You know, we got a lot of work to do in, you know, upgrading equipment. The winter fishery is very important. Like, without a winter fishery, you know, this plant is probably -- this plant is overkilled. So I guess I just want to make sure that, you know, when we approach and we're spending this type of money that we're doing it right because if -- with the amount we spend, we might be better off just to take that money, divide it up, and just pay the fishermen to stay home each year, is really is what it boils down to it. But we don't want to do that because we have a lake full of fish. We don't have to feed it. It's there waiting to be caught and sold. So, you know, we have to get is it right.

But I think we need to take a look at all the costs, where the money's coming from, whether it's this -- you know, the different departments. We've got training dollars as well. And -- yeah, so my big thing for the fishers, and I've told them and in talking with them, is trying to maximize what they get per pound. And how do we do that? That's the question. And it's hopefully through marketing and getting the fish out there to somebody who is willing to pay a high price for it. Because if they're not willing to pay a high price for it, then, you know, we're just throwing good money after bad. And that industry is in my back yard and I don't want to lose it. Thank you.