This is page numbers 6303 - 6336 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kruger

Thanks, Madam Chair. So there is a provision in the bill "cost to health care benefits" which is in the definition section and deals with either the present value of total expenditures by the Government of the Northwest Territories and the present value of estimated total of future expenditures as well. And so the cost of health care benefits that have been discussed here could be included in those amounts sought to be recovered. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. So this could be used, moving forward, for health care benefits that are incurred related to opioid damages and the GNWT can, and perhaps should, start tracking these costs that are covered by other agents? I guess that's a question for the Minister. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. So the question is whether the GNWT can and should start tracking these costs? Perhaps for a discussion of -- part of the reason for things like this class action are that we don't have to prove damages for every individual, don't have to prove that an individual became addicted to opioids due to, you know, the actions of a company and then prove the number. So what we are doing is looking at damages on an aggregate basis. Perhaps I can hand it to Ms. Zimmer to maybe explain things a bit more concisely. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Ms. Zimmer.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Zimmer

Yes, so part of the purpose of the bill is to create some evidentiary shortcuts through the litigation and doing that through the calculations, and you'll see the formulas in there in order to prove aggregate harm, and that would be based on a population basis and the overall expenditures. And so by creating that, you're not sort of looking at it at that granular level and it allows the government to move forward and to better recover costs for the harms that have been incurred.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6316

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, so, yeah, I get that there's a formula in here and that it's some kind of pro forma calculation then of what the damages are. But will GNWT then include costs that have been incurred by Indigenous governments in seeking damages as part of this class action suit? That's my first question. Thanks.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. This is costs that are incurred by the GNWT only. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, then what's the purpose of, you know, (c) here which does cover through one or more agents or in other intermediate bodies. Does that potentially include Indigenous governments and why wouldn't we roll those costs into this if there's a way to do that? So, yeah, thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. So those intermediates, those agents would -- the example I used earlier, the GNWT flows money to an Indigenous government, the Indigenous government then uses that money to send their members to treatment. So it's not the GNWT directly sending somebody to treatment, it is another body, and that is what that is intended to cover. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, maybe this is just semantics then. So GNWT has to initiate giving money to Indigenous governments on their own before we're going to seek reimbursement. What about in cases where Indigenous governments incur some costs and then seek and maybe even get reimbursement from GNWT for opioid-related damages, would those sort of costs -- could they be rolled up in this as part of the claim? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. So if the GNWT pays the costs, then it's my understanding that those costs could be recoverable. But I don't believe -- and, again, this is not my area. But it's not my understanding that the reimbursements like the Member is talking about are commonplace. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this in my one minute that's left now. And I haven't got an answer about what the current practice is, or the practice will be moving forward. And is any of this going to be communicated in any way to the Indigenous governments that their costs related to opioid damages, if they seek and maybe even get reimbursement from GNWT, they would be included in the claim and that there might even be the potential, at some point, for sharing some of the claim money. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. At this point there is no such plans that I'm aware of. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Did you have any final -- okay, Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, recognizing I have 13 seconds left. Yeah, this is obviously an issue. At least one Indigenous government has raised this issue and I am going to suggest to the Minister, and maybe the Minister of Health and Social Services, that you need to have this discussion at the Council of Leaders' level to get their views about this. If we're going to do things, we are going to do things with Indigenous governments, you have an obligation to talk to them about this. Thank you, Madam Chair.