Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I did just want to note there are -- the promise of 100 new units in the life of this Assembly will be realized by the end of the current fiscal year of 2023-2024. With respect to 2024-2025 -- sorry, and I actually was -- I'm looking at 2023-2024. Let me take that to Mr. Martin to detail. Thanks.

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think, again, this comes back to the point that my colleague was making that the communication out of this department is terrible. You know, there is -- the way things are presented to us, it's been impossible to figure out where things have actually been built and been constructed. I repeatedly have asked at times for updates for units in my own riding, and then to be surprised when an announcement is made with the federal government that, you know, that the Aspen Apartments is going to become public housing units, and I've had no update even though I've been asking for six months what was happening there.

So it's kind of frustrating to sit here, and we ask questions, and then the responses are coming back to us well, there's all this other stuff and sort of this don't you know about all of this because we've been sending you these things over the last four years. However, it just goes to show that there is no real attempt to ensure that people on this side of the House understand where things are going. And so if we have to go and tease out every single little thing from the department to figure out where things are going, what's being built, then this as an informational item and the communication from the department has failed. I still sit here at the end of four years, and I'm on the committee that deals with housing, and I still could not tell you where units were built. I have been asking since, like, last year when people would be moving into the Nordic Arms, which I'm assuming is part of maybe either this major retrofit Yellowknife or whatever, but my constituent that was promised that she was going to move there has been strung along now for six or seven months on that, as her son is continuously still exposed to crack smoke at Norseman Apartments.

I do want to thank the department, and the Minister, for listening at least and installing better security options when I did come to them two years ago. But the issue I have here too is that we hear from this department saying that there is, you know, so many -- 300 units that are on M and I, and I know that's their acronym for things that are being retrofitted and fixed up, but I have to wonder how robust is their assessment for the units that are remaining. So yes, they tell us well, we've got 300 that we're working on but who's to say that another one of like a thousand of these 2,700 units are in dire need of repair and it's the department that's just choosing to not assess that? I hear constantly communications about things with mold and issues and all of our things. The department, when I ask them why there's a window boarded up next to their unit, can't answer. And to me, that's concerning because if you know even the basics of building science, you know that what happens in one unit affects the next unit. But this shows the mentality of the department, to only focus on their small pieces and to treat that in an infrastructure type manner and a fiscal manner instead of, like I said yesterday, acknowledging that they are a social department and that they need to be getting people housed. So I would like to ask where is the assessment of the remaining units that are not on their retrofit, or their I and M schedule, how far behind are they in looking at those units to ensure that they are habitable, and are they actually ever looking at the fact that they're liable for a lot of the health issues that people in our territory are experiencing because they have not fixed these units? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Do you have any questions for the department? Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, with respect to our assessment schedule, so there is an assessment schedule that is prepared year over year. I don't have the assessment schedule with us because that's not -- I mean, again, I -- and I appreciate the connection to the capital estimates planning process, but I don't have the schedule that is for assessments for future years. I can certainly get my hands on it and provide it. And that may also then -- with that, we could probably speak to the rating and the risk assessment that goes in. So there is an assessment that is done -- it's put through a risk assessment process. That then allows for the decisions about which units are subject to retrofits and which ones wait for the next round of retrofits, so. And hopefully that will help to explain some of that. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate the Minister's commitment. I would like to better understand the process through which the assessments are made, including any standard operating procedures that are given to assessors to use.

I guess the last thing that I feel the need to comment on is the conversation around the money that is going directly to Indigenous governments. And, you know, I, again, sat here and listened time and time again to this Cabinet talk about their great relationship with Indigenous governments but then when push comes to shove and it's time of actually sharing information, the Indigenous governments don't trust this department to share their information with them. So what does that tell you, really, about the actual work that's being done with the Indigenous governments? This is an area where nobody is disagreeing that it's important and it needs to be taken care of. It should be the one area where you think everybody would be on the same page. So I think it really speaks volumes to the distrust that Indigenous governments have for the housing corporation. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I did want to know -- I'm glad I have the chance, there was a working group, it actually does have a new name now, it's the Northwest Territories Housing Forum. And I'm not sure whether or not terms of reference can be shared. Obviously, we'd be only one seat at that table but let me make that inquiry. And perhaps that, again, also can demonstrate the level of commitment between all the parties at that forum and what they're attempting to do at that forum. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I do hope that there will be some transparency with this group. I think that if there is a hesitancy to share and to allow MLAs to have a part in this, I think the Cabinet and Minister could be pointing back to the good work that's been done through the Forest Act and really a collaborative effort. And that's where we should be moving with all of our work between -- that we do in this House, is to have that triangle piece that we often hear about where it is actually meaningfully done, not where Cabinet sits as the go between between the two and filters the information back and forth. I think a fulsome conversation with all three groups would be worthwhile.

I just want to note that on my last comment is that this department, I think, really needs to get their communications under control, and I would suggest that they actually hire somebody that can facilitate these conversations, and not this person that we ended up with that was supposed administer all these projects that was just one employee, again, situated in headquarters. They need to have people - elders, Indigenous leaders - in communities employed by them to be the facilitator and go-between between the housing clients who are traumatized and the LHOs and the LHAs because they are not operating in a trauma-informed way. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions or comments from committee? Seeing no further questions -- oh, Member for Monfwi.

Okay, I see here there's major retrofit, two units for public housing. There's two in Behchoko and one in Whati. And I said this morning too that, you know, in all the Northwest Territories, I know there's housing crisis and even in Behchoko alone, we have a housing crisis where I have -- there's a family -- there is a family, there's -- it's not just this family but there are other family, but this one has seven kids. Seven children, age ranging from 13 years old to one years old that are homeless in my community. And we have lots of housing that need retrofit too as well. There's some houses that have been boarded up for over ten years. And I just want to ask the Minister -- or, you know, the housing, I know she is the Finance minister, but what is the housing doing to try to eliminate homelessness in small communities? It's not just my communities. There are other communities as well. And we do have one homeless shelter and it's -- I mean, we do have -- it's -- we do need more houses to accommodate the homeless because this homeless shelter that we have, it's being used a lot by the communities and sometimes when it's full, what some of the -- we notice that homeless population do is that they go to jail. They go to the RCMP local station so that they can have a safe place to sleep. I mean, this is, like, two retrofit and one in Whati. Whati also has the same problem as well. We do have a lot of family in that community that are waiting for housing. And for Tlicho region, with over 2,000 population -- I'm just saying over 2,000. Behchoko is a little bit over 2,000 and Whati is, like, close to 600 now since the road opened, all-season road. But we do need more housing. So I just wanted to know what is this government trying -- what is this government doing? Can they commit to build more houses to accommodate and to eliminate the homelessness? I know it was the Premier's portfolio before to -- you know, it was the housing issues -- it was the housing responsibility but now it got transferred to Premier's office. So I just wanted to ask the Minister what are they doing, are they going to be building more houses any time soon? This one is for 2024-2025, that it's going to be completed in both communities. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I have both the 2023-2024 and 2024-2025 plans in front of me. The 2023-2024 still does stretch into the coming few months before the turnover of the fiscal year. There are five new public housing units going into Behchoko under the current fiscal year, and that is being done through the Tlicho Infrastructure Agreement. And then there were other additional major retrofits, both to Behchoko as well as to Whati, two different units -- two units going into Whati, again under the current fiscal year. Then we get into the present year and that's where it is retrofits, not new units but, again, I know that some of those units, as we detailed earlier, are currently vacant. I don't know if the vacancy rates are in the Behchoko and Whati units or elsewhere but that may well be.

More broadly speaking, though, Madam Chair, the question with respect to the homelessness strategy, that did go to EIA and to the Premier's office. Obviously, I think we're reflective -- as I think the Premier has said, reflective of the importance and placed upon that strategy and placed upon resolving and reaching a place where there can be -- a place where there's not functionally -- or that functionally that we past homelessness. So obviously that reflects the importance of it. It does need to continue to be implemented. It's only a few months old. You know, there's a lot in there with everything at the spectrum of housing from homelessness to transitional housing to folks who may be looking to move up. So I'm not in a position here at the capital planning table to speak to the homelessness strategy but there's still a few days left to ask questions certainly to all my colleagues about the status of the homelessness strategy and the implementation of that strategy will take more than a few months. It will take a lot of time. And as you will all recall, we, in the course of our main estimates, actually were able to put money to that homelessness strategy so that it's more than just a plan. It is actually a plan with some dollars attached to it. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Monfwi, did you have any follow-up questions?

Yes, thank you. Yes, there's 165 units that's being retrofitted, and three in Tlicho region and with highest population of all the small -- or of the Indigenous communities. I mean, that is a shame because it's really sad that, you know, some of our homeless populations, when that warming shelter is at its capacity, that they walk over to the RCMP station and check themselves in. I mean, that's wrong. You know, like, I mean it is sad. It's really sad. I don't like that. So I just -- yeah, and I know that she did say that there is some -- this current -- or this past current fiscal year, but there were some houses that were supposed to be -- there were some houses -- new houses that were allocated in Behchoko and in Whati as well, but we haven't seen any of those houses. When are those houses going to be in the communities for families to move in because there are -- like, with this family of seven kids, there are some others with children that are still waiting. And Minister has my email of all those that I submitted within the last two/three weeks that families are waiting for housing. And winter is coming, and we have nothing. And that is a shame that, you know, that we're not doing enough. And there are some units that housing has, 14 units, that Tlicho would like to take over so they can help with the homelessness too. And that -- nobody -- they're not even going -- they don't want to transfer those units to Tlicho government as well. So it would have -- it would have helped with the homelessness issues too. Now we're -- you know, like, I mean, we have no housing. We have lots of housing that are boarded up, that's been boarded up some of them for over ten years. And I don't know why it's still there if they're not going to fix -- if they're not going to fix it, give it away. And that's what we been saying for quite some time. And it's -- the housing is slow at giving those units away to some people. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any further comments? Questions? Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Member. Seeing that there are no other Members who I have on my list, I remind the committee that the estimates for Housing Northwest Territories are included in the capital estimates as information item only. The committee will not be voting on the activity total. Seeing no further questions, please return to the Housing Northwest Territories summary on page 75. Are there any further questions or comments from committee? Seeing no further questions.

Does committee agree that consideration of Housing Northwest Territories is now complete?

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, you can escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Does committee agree that you've concluded consideration of Tabled Document 973-19(2), 2024-2025 Capital Estimates?