I'll pass that to the ADM.

I'll go to the ADM.

Thank you. I'll go back to the Member from Range Lake.

Okay, so it's -- so $2.5 million would be the entire program with the 2200 people added? Thank you.

I'll go back to the ADM or to the Minister.

Yes, thank you, that's correct.

Thank you. I'll go back to the Member from Range Lake.

Thank you. So given that -- okay, so we have costs. So do we know how much -- so basically we don't -- this isn't saving money as much as it's generating revenue and the that revenue's going to be used to support the program as it's currently designed. Is there still -- if everything works out with the rebates and with the co-pays, what is the gap missing debt? Or what's the total cost overrun at that point? Thank you.

Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is all by estimates because we don't know what the 2200 people -- because they haven't fell within a specific disease, so we don't know what their needs are. They may have high costs in pharmacare or medical supplies that they require but they haven't fallen under one of the specific diseases. And so these individuals, you know, we don't know until we actually get them to start applying to the program because until then, you know, that's where we're at, and so there's -- in the presentation, and I know that when we were in the briefing, and there's -- it could be -- cost us $1.3 million. If there's not a significant uptake, it could not -- you know, we could cover our costs. So there is -- it's all estimates right now, and that's why I'm saying, like, until we have the roll out and we know what people -- what services and what the needs are of the residents that haven't had access to this program. As well as the many other programs that are out there that are supplementing some of the individuals, so some of these individuals on this may have access to some types of insurances, which will offset some of those costs. We won't know that until people are actually applying to the program. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'll go back to the Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. These are all estimates. The entire budget is estimates. So, I mean, we're making -- that's the -- I don't understand why we can't have a clear estimate on what we expect to expend here. And that's, I think, the issue here, is when we reviewed this at the committee stage, there wasn't a clear cost saving measure for co-payment, there wasn't a clear estimate for how much this is going to cost, and all of that. So where I'm sitting right now is I think -- I know for a fact, because my constituents have spoken to me about this, that there are people who are caught in the gap between, you know, the extremely low income threshold that's been -- that's going to be put in place and the high cost of their care, that now they're falling off this system. And these are people who aren't seniors so they're in that gap where they have high needs, they make too much money but they're not seniors so they won't be covered. And those people are going to be left out in the cold. And that's why I can't support this change, especially when we just don't have the numbers to support it. So if we're just going to say well, it's estimates, you can't really critique this until we actually have actuals, I mean, I don't know how we proceed on this entire budget. So I guess I'll leave at this, noting the clock, but -- or I'll ask one question on the clock.

So will the Minister reverse income testing for extended health care benefits? Thank you.

Yes, thank you. Before I go to the Minister, I just want to remind Members that these mics that we have on our desk, they're very sensitive and it affects our translators, so if we could just be careful whether we throw pencils down or hit it by accident there. It affects their ears. So I'm going to go to the Minister. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we have provided numbers. You know, the estimate is what is in the budget, and we've said that it's 1.3 -- like, and it's in the letter that I sent today as well, that the summary of the expected increased costs is $2.5 million, less the estimated co-payments by residents of $1.2 million. That leaves a shortfall of $1.3 million. So thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. We'll take one more, Speaker, then we'll go for supper for 30 minutes, and we'll come back. And I'm going to go to the Member from the Deh Cho.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week, I spoke of -- well, talking about medical travel. I looked at the -- and it looks like there's a significant drop in the main estimates from 2022-2023 to 2024-2025. That's a huge number that it dropped. And I brought up a constituent concern last week about that individual that was in Edmonton, could not be brought back to the North because an incident happened in Edmonton. And this individual had paid taxes all his life in the North. He needed assistance to come home. And I mentioned that his health was taking a toll for the worst. Well, I regret to inform this House this individual passed away Saturday morning. So it's pretty hard for me to be here right now to talk about this. So I need to ask the Minister -- I did make a point last week to say can the Minister do a one-time coverage for travel back home for anybody that gets hurt out of the NWT? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Consider a one-time coverage for travel back North for anybody that gets hurt outside of the territory? That's what I want to say. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I hear the Member, and I'm -- you know, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and her community and, you know, her constituents. You know, this is -- these decisions and some of the things with medical travel and this is why there's -- this is the hard part of this, you know, is that there's only so much money in the territory, and we want to do everything for everybody. But we as a government can't operate on single individual cases case by case. You know, and I hear the Member and I understand the concerns. You know, there's -- but at this time, that's why we've committed to reviewing the entire -- you know, the medical travel policy as a whole to see how we are running this program. You know, and I hear the Members, and everybody wants -- you know, we want to have services provided for free to all our Members. We want to have services that, you know, anywhere else in Canada that you are paying for free in the territory because of the cost of living. But in order to be able to provide all of those services, we have to pay for those services and so, you know, we have to pick areas where we can support people to travel for their medical appointments. We have to pick, you know, and then so when we have extended health benefits, we've got people wanting to go out for treatment, you know, and there's so many needs that our territory needs and, you know -- and unfortunately, where we are is we -- I mean, I'm sure health could have -- I could ask the Minister to give me $1.2 billion, double my budget, to provide everything that -- you know, and even that wouldn't be enough. And, you know, so -- and so I'm really -- you know, I'm really -- I'm sad to, you know, hear what the Member's -- you know, what she's had to say, but unfortunately, this is why we have -- we're doing these reviews and we're looking at ways to try and come up with ways to pay for certain things that people of the Northwest Territories needs, and we have to prioritize. And I get Members don't agree with sometimes the way that we're prioritizing. And thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Does the Member from the Deh Cho have any further questions?

Yes, thank you. And thank you to the Member for that. I apologize for that. The reason that it's hard on me is because I'm -- it's a close family member. And I went to see him when I was in Edmonton the last time.

So the next thing I have is what policy change can the Minister make so this is the last family that goes through this? Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is why we're looking at the policy review. You know, and even the information that I explained to the Member in the House, you know, people leaving the Northwest Territories, I myself, you know, when I first travelled, you know, that's not something that we normally do because we usually jump in our vehicle and we head down to Whitehorse from the Beaufort Delta. We don't think about having to access what happens if we get hurt, you know, or what happens if we're in an accident. And so, you know, that's another -- that's part of this is going to be making sure that residents know, you know, what their coverage is and what their -- you know, when they're getting their health care cards, what they're actually covered for and when they need to get other coverage. And so, you know, I'll make sure that that's part of the review when we go through it as we are going through it. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go back to the Member from the Deh Cho.

No, I'm going to continue on, I'm going to go to the Member from Monfwi.