Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can see which way the wind is blowing, Mr. Chairman. Obviously, committee Members are not interested in fine tuning or enhancing the terms of reference.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to clarify that I do consider social issues important. They were an issue in my constituency and other constituencies, although frankly, Mr. Koe did not correctly describe the concern in my constituency when he said it was concern about the department. The concern is about the root causes of social issues in the Northwest Territories. If this is not part of the motion to establish a special committee, Mr. Chairman, I do not know what I should be talking about. I am talking about the root causes of social issues. If that is not on point, please rule me out of order right now.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I now think I see what I did wrong. I would like to move that committee motion 10-12(1) be amended by adding the following words after "adopted": "except for all phrases following the phrase, now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for High Arctic, that a special committee on health and social services be established." Mr. Chairman, with some help, I have been able to arrange for this to be translated. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I move an amendment that would delete all the words following the word "established" in the "now therefore" clause.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do appreciate the chance to discuss this in committee of the whole. Unfortunately, because of other business in this session and perhaps my own negligence, I did not have a chance to talk to the honourable Member who moved this motion, and I generally feel that when a major initiative of this kind comes forward -- previous Houses did initiatives on education, on housing and on the special economy -- it is very important for a Member making such an initiative to try to consult fully with all Members to make sure that such an important thrust is supported by everyone and understood by everyone. I am afraid I am going to have to make my criticisms of his motion here in committee of the whole.

I do want to agree with the Member for Thebacha that obviously these are important issues. I just spent my reply to the Commissioner's Opening Address talking about social issues. They are important and we need to pay attention to them, and I do not disagree in principle with the establishment of a committee, but I must say, Mr. Chairman, with the greatest of respect to the honourable Member for Inuvik, this motion and terms of reference look like they have been drafted by a bureaucrat. It is all about service delivery, policy, legislation, administrative organization and departmental infrastructure, and I feel that the terms of reference are very narrow.

From reading this motion for the establishment of the committee, it looks to me as if the terms of reference assume that all the solutions to our social and health issues lie within government; that if we tinker with the policy, the establishment, change dotted lines to solid lines and change the organization, that somehow things are going to get better. There is talk in the motion of public consultation. I frankly do not think that very many members of the public are going to comment on issues that seem to be repeated in the terms of reference and in the preamble, which keeps talking about things like service delivery models.

Mr. Chairman, I am not saying that these things should not be addressed, nor that they do not need attention, but I find the whole thrust of the motion to be focused on government, on organization and therefore very narrow, and I think I agree with the honourable Member for Thebacha that there are some very fundamental community issues that have to be addressed as well if we are really going to make a difference on these grievous social problems. I agree that we do not need to spend a lot of money finding out what those problems are, but I do believe that in addition to talking about things like infrastructure, service delivery models and the bureaucratic jargon that is replete in this motion, I think we need to talk about fundamental issues with the public such as the responsibilities of parents, the roles of parents, the roles of communities in looking after themselves, and I do not see that in this motion. To me it is all about policy, legislation, organization, and I find the terms of reference incomplete and for such an important initiative.

I would respectfully suggest to the honourable Member that he take note of the comments made today, take a little more time to solicit support from Members and give us time to talk with our constituents over the holidays. I would very much like to get input from the social agencies in my community and the socially concerned persons, about how they would like to see us tackle problems of addiction, family violence, sexual abuse, that we all know exist. But I think the honourable Member for Inuvik could benefit and make this a more complete, more supported initiative, if he gave us a little more time to have input. So I would be interested in his responses and perhaps he could persuade me that he had these other issues in mind.

I will say again, the thing looks like a government review. It looks like something that could be done by a government department or a management consultant -- the way the terms of reference are drawn. It does not seem to emphasize the human, political, basic, fundamental family problems that we all know about. It is all oriented toward the government reorganizing the government. And that, Mr. Chairman, is not going to be the only solution. It may be part of it, but we have to, as Mrs. Marie-Jewell said, we have to start coping with how we change attitudes in communities, how we get people taking more responsibility for their lives, how we encourage people to discharge their responsibilities as parents.

So I find the terms of reference quite incomplete. They are very important. I hope no honourable Members would say that we should have a committee so we will just go ahead with terms of reference that may not be perfect. I would rather see us agree in principle today and say we are going to establish a committee, but get the terms of reference properly done. I will say again, I would like to have some input from my constituents before I finalize this thing. The deadline is September 30, 1993, I am told we do not have much money to spend on a committee before the end of the fiscal year anyway. Why do we not take the time to consult our constituencies, come back in February, get terms of reference that are real and responsive to the views of all Members and do it properly. Thank you.

I move that this motion be referred to committee of the whole for discussion.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Looking closely at the preamble and at the terms of reference proposed by the honourable Member, I have a lot of questions I would like to ask in a less restrictive environment presented by committee of the whole. I think it is a very important motion and I think it is on an issue of extreme important to all MLAs on which we may all have useful ideas to contribute.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 38-12(1), the Task Force on Legal Aid in the Northwest Territories, Report to the Legal Services Board, November 1991. The recommendations of the report have been translated. Qujannamiik.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just heard my honourable colleague call for a five minute break, Mr. Speaker. I hope he is anxious to hear my reply.

TFN Claim

Mr. Speaker, I do wish to take this opportunity today to congratulate the hard-working board and executive and negotiators of the Tungavik Federation of Nunavut on their accomplishment this past weekend in initialling the final agreement on the Inuit land claim in Nunavut. This had involved a tremendous amount of work over the years. I can remember, since I had just arrived in the North, when James Arvaluk was president of ITC, Inuit Tapirisat of Canada, when the first Nunavut proposal was presented to the government of Trudeau. That was almost 20 years ago now. There had been a tremendous amount of work and effort and personal sacrifice, sometimes at personal cost to people who worked on that claim. I am delighted that another major step has been taken.

I was privileged to be present at the final negotiations and also I happened to be privileged to be present at the final negotiations for the agreement in principle.

Mr. Speaker, the praises are not often given to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs or his staff, especially publicly. But I do want to note the obvious personal commitment on the part of the Minister for Indian and Northern Affairs, Mr. Tom Siddon, and his key staff, Mr. Rick Van Loon, Mr. Barry Dewar and Ian Potter and others who have been working on the claim. It is very obvious that they have a great deal of good will towards the Inuit. Mr. Siddon expressed that when he went to Igloolik for the signing of the agreement in principle and built and slept in an igloo in minus 20 degree temperatures. So I would like to acknowledge that commitment and that success.

I would also like to observe that there were hard negotiations on complex matters of interest and the payment schedule, resulting in significant commitments on the part of the federal government on interest which will produce total cumulative payments of over one billion dollars over the course of the implementation of the claim. That also attests to the skill and persistence of the Inuit negotiators. I think they secured quite a favourable arrangement on interest and the payment schedule as a result of their hard work.

I also want to echo the comments made by the chairman of the Nunavut caucus that it is notable, and we have had the privilege of being in this House before, it is notable that the new Members from Nunavut are all very keenly interested in and concerned about this land claim, making it work, providing constructive criticism to make sure that it is a success, to make changes if necessary, and they are also intensely interested in political development in Nunavut.

I am pleased that as a result of this keen interest and commitment to the land claim and political development, that I believe we have developed a new and stronger working relationship with the TFN, with their executive, a better relationship than has occurred in the past. I think that augurs well for the difficult and challenging steps we have ahead of us.

Land claims and political development are so closely related in this claim that it is vital that representatives of the public government in this House, and the TFN who represent the Inuit, work very closely together. In this regard, I think the January leadership meeting that has been organized at the initiative of the Nunavut caucus will be taking place at a very critical moment in time. It is going to be a very important meeting and I think a very good opportunity for us to ensure a close working relationship with the elected representatives of our people in Nunavut.

Mr. Speaker, I noted, as I mentioned earlier, that there were people who were very quick to dump on this claim. I think one thing I have observed about the North is that we can always count on at least some people to come forward in a negative way when there is good news. I want to say that, of course, the opinions of Mr. Ovide Mercredi and Mr. Bill Erasmus are important, but I would also ask that they show some respect for the fact that this claim was negotiated by very capable and hard-working Inuit. Others have not hesitated to be critical of this claim. I am not sure if they would welcome other people telling them what is good for them, and so I would ask those who may have opinions about this claim that it is a matter for the Inuit. It will be accepted or rejected by the Inuit, they will make this very important decision on the claim they negotiated and I think we can have trust in their good sense to do what is best for their people. I would also note that, unlike the Dene/Metis comprehensive claim, whose leaders rejected the claim and withdrew it, this one will be put to the people for ratification.

I also want to say about the boundary, Mr. Speaker, boundaries are never easy to settle. In order to come up with an agreement on a boundary in dispute, give and take is required on both sides. I want to note that the land claims boundary had been settled, we thought, back in 1985 between the Dene and Inuit. When Mr. Kakfwi was the leader of the Dene Nation, Mr. Bob Overvold was the chief negotiator, elders from Inuit and Dene communities concerned met amongst themselves and an agreement was reached. The leaders of the day on both sides had the courage to make a decision and each give a little, which is necessary to achieve agreement. That agreement became questioned by persons who were not involved in the hard work leading up to its achievement. Since then Mr. Parker, who I think had the respect of all parties for his fairness and objectivity and knowledge of the area, did further work in his usual conscientious fashion, which resulted in further concessions being made to the Dene.

Mr. Speaker, perhaps we will never be able to satisfy Mr. Erasmus unless Baffin Island became part of the Dene land claim, but I think we should take a look at the areas in dispute when we criticize this land claims boundary. The reality is, Mr. Speaker, that people do not live in the area of the boundary year-round. We are talking about areas that are primarily used for hunting, trapping and traditional activities. As I understand it, it has been agreed that there will be respect on both sides for traditional hunting and trapping activities. I think that is what should be important to Mr. Erasmus and his members. I would think that being able to continue to use the land for traditional purposes should be more important to hunters who share this area than who owns what.

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to judge a claim in terms of whether it is good or bad, or whether it is adequate. People are always going to say that there could have been more, but I believe that with a land claim, if we look at the history of the Inuvialuit, the James Bay Cree and Inuit, I think we can learn that a lot of the success of a claim depends on what is made of it, what is done with the land, the money and the management tools that are given to people as a result of a claim. I think we will only be able to judge the success of this claim long after it has been implemented. Only then will we be able to say that it was a good claim, it was adequate, Inuit have strengthened themselves and profited from the opportunities the claim gave them. I think that if we continue to have the emphasis that has been placed by our M.P., by the TFN negotiations and by MLAs in this Assembly on education to ensure that our people are skilled, are competent and are making the decisions, that we are working closely together with the Nunavut caucus and the TFN to make this thing work, that we will best be able to capitalize on the opportunity that it presents.

Constituency Matters

Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn briefly to some constituency matters. I do want to say to my constituents with this first real opportunity I have had how grateful I am for the chance to work for them and with them for the fourth term. I would also like to congratulate Charlie Ruttan and the new council that were elected in Iqaluit in a lively election campaign in October, and I would also like to extend thanks to Mr. Morin and Mr. Ningark and Ms. Cournoyea, along with, of course, Mr. Allooloo and MLAs Kenoayoak Pudlat, Becky Mike and Ludy Pudluk who came to the Baffin Regional Council shortly before this session began. Every time I look at Don Morin these days, who is suffering from some back injuries, I feel a little bit guilty about that trip to Iqaluit because I had something to do with those injuries, Mr. Speaker. While I was taking Mr. Morin in the short time that was available to us before we went to the BRC to visit some homeless families who were living, and are living, on the beach in some very primitive conditions, I mistook a snowbank for a road somehow, the vehicle became stuck and it was while Mr. Morin was helping push that vehicle out of the snow bank that he developed his condition. I can only say I hope he will still be willing to come back to Iqaluit. I hope his back condition improves and I am grateful that he took the trouble to see for himself those three families in particular who have small children who are living in little better than construction crates in Arctic temperatures and winds on the beach in my constituency.

Housing

Mr. Speaker, this problem is only partly a result of housing shortages in Iqaluit. The real source of this problem is rental arrears. It is a problem for Mr. Morin because the corporation has firm policies about not assisting people with housing who have delinquent arrears. All of these constituents of mine are working at carving or in a local hotel, so in fact they are not all eligible for social assistance. They are willing to contribute toward these arrears but they cannot afford to pay the total arrears at once. Mayor Ruttan and his council are committed to getting these people off the beach and so am I. It looks like it is going to take some ingenuity to solve this problem and I will be working with Mr. Whitford and his department and the town to see if there is some way in which we can get these people out of these very trying conditions as soon as possible.

Social Problems

I want to also say that I am pleased Mr. Whitford has agreed to come to my constituency in the new year. There are many issues there in need of his attention. I am happy that he will have the opportunity to visit Tuvvik and hopefully meet with the board to see this very important program which exists in a community which is unfortunately beset by alcohol and drug problems. Tuvvik runs a drop-in centre for youth and homeless people in the evenings. It established the first program for batterers in the NWT, it provides important counselling for people with alcohol and drug and other problems and does enjoy a lot of local support. Right now employee morale is suffering. There has not only been no increase but in fact reductions in wages. The program has been beset by continual funding crises and threats, the most recent of which has been just last week and I do hope that by a personal visit and meeting with the people active in this program that the future can be sorted out so they can get on with their important work. I do hope that the controversy over the so-called abstinence clause can be dealt with when Mr. Whitford visits.

I would also like him to take a look at the homeless shelter in Iqaluit. I think we are very privileged that we do have such a facility. It is operating with the generous support from the Town of Iqaluit, from private citizens and with help also from the Housing Corporation and the Department of Social Services. The present formula for supporting this shelter needs to be clarified and perhaps reviewed. The shelter has had to close twice this fall due to funding problems and uncertainties. The Town of Iqaluit has stepped in and assisted them to revive, but they are in need of some attention. I do want to assure the Minister that the shelter is definitely of critical importance for an average of eight or 10 or 12 people each night. They are real homeless people. If we were not giving them the stability and certainty of a place to sleep each night, then they would likely be in expensive institutions like hospitals or even jails or a burden on families that are already in overcrowded and socially-tense conditions.

I would also like to review with Mr. Whitford when he comes to my constituency, the work which has been done over many years now, at least five years, toward an alcohol and drug treatment centre for the Eastern Arctic, just as Hay River and Yellowknife have developed plans to treat residents of their regions in treatment facilities in the North. So Baffin Region residents would like to see treatment occurring for people with alcohol and drug problems in the North, in a centre that can operate in Inuktitut, that can more easily provide cultural relevance, involve families and provide follow-up support. It would also allow jobs and training of Northerners. I think it is no longer acceptable to send people to alien environments in Toronto or Alberta or even Yellowknife for treatment. It is very expensive and I am not sure it is as effective as it might be, not withstanding the best efforts of people working in those facilities.

I would also like to talk to the Minister of Social Services in Iqaluit about some ideas I have for reviving a very successful and effective camp for Baffin young offenders which had operated on the land at Mingutuq some 80 miles from Iqaluit. I believe that wherever possible we should try to find alternatives to institutions for young offenders. Institutions, although they may be necessary in some cases, are very costly and inevitably, despite best efforts of staff, I think they are depersonalizing. Young people on the land live a healthy active life and have an opportunity to gain pride and self-respect, learning hunting and survival skills on the land. I also believe that such a program can be even more cost-effective than running 24-hour institutions.

Those are just some of the issues of concern to my constituents, Mr. Speaker, perhaps I have given Mr. Whitford a weeks worth of work instead of a couple of days worth of work. But I do look forward to working with him on solutions to some of these problems.

Mr. Speaker, I held a public meeting before the session as is my wont and I got some very good advice from elders in my constituency at that meeting about problems and challenges relating to the justice system. I do not want to elaborate in details today, but I would like to note that Inuit in Iqaluit have ideas about making the justice system more relevant to Inuit and young people. They want to participate, they want to become involved, they want to take more responsibility for dealing with problems, especially those that involve youth and I think that this concern and advice is welcome to me as I assume this new portfolio. I am looking forward to working with those elders and other elders in the NWT to see if we can take better advantage of the wisdom and strength and experience that they can offer to the government and the system for administration of justice in looking after some of our problems.

I want to say that I am very happy to have been given such interesting and important responsibilities as I have been given by the Government Leader following being chosen for cabinet by Members of this House. I will not forget how I got here on this side. I will look forward to working closely with all MLAs. I know it is not going to be easy for any of us in times of restraint, but I will do my best and I do believe that most Members do understand that it is getting increasingly difficult to say yes to every request; that we are going to have to set priorities and goals over four years in order to meet the demands and needs of our constituents.

Job Of Government Leader

I also just want to say, since my tenure as Government Leader was described very graphically by an honourable Member this time yesterday, that I am very happy to no longer be the Government Leader. I feel good about my term. It was a privilege to have had that job and I think a few things were accomplished. But I certainly felt that it was time for a change and for a new style and I want to indicate again my support for the Government Leader. I perhaps understand better than most what a difficult task she has. I am sure Mr. Nerysoo understands as well.

If any honourable Members thought that it was an easy job being Government Leader, I think they should know that it was not, based on the comments made by one of my former colleagues yesterday, the Member for Thebacha. All I want to say about that, Mr. Speaker, is that I do, believe it or not, understand how frustrating it must have been for the honourable Member to have been advised not just by myself that it would be inadvisable to comment while investigations were under way -- no less than two investigations respecting her and her department. I understand that it would have been especially frustrating since all of this took place in that very sensitive and critical period of the run-up, and then the calling of a territorial election.

I am happy that the honourable Member was eventually vindicated of all of the charges that were made. I expected that would happen. I also hope that the honourable Member has, in her usual open fashion, rid herself of the feelings over this unfortunate episode. I do hope that the matter can now be put behind her.

Mr. Speaker, while I would not describe the honourable Member as being tactful or even forgiving, I would without hesitation say that she is hard working and always honest and open with her thoughts and feelings, and I do respect her for that.

Tribute To Mr. Tom Butters

Mr. Speaker, while on the subject of former cabinet colleagues, I just want to take a minute in closing to acknowledge the contribution of two former cabinet colleagues, and I know Mr. Koe paid tribute to Mr. Butters yesterday. He was the Dean of the 11th Assembly. I had the privilege of working with him for 12 years. He was known and respected for his willingness to travel to communities, to give his time and for his famous attention to detail.

Tribute To Mr. Gordon Wray

Mr. Wray, as well, was a colleague of mine who I want to credit for his deep and personal commitment to economic development. He developed and concluded the transportation and economic strategies, and negotiated a new and improved Economic Development Agreement, all of which I think will stand this House and our government in good stead as we move forward in dealing with these two critical areas.

I also want to say that as Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, I have come to appreciate the priority Mr. Wray put on developing recreation and sport facilities in all our communities; also his support for the Arctic Winter Games. I think these particular contributions amongst many that Mr. Wray made, should be noted as we begin our new term.

Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to working with this new Assembly. I have a feeling of energy and optimism coming from honourable Members. I think this Assembly is going to be very hard working. I think so-called ordinary Members -- I do not really like that term -- or non-cabinet Members of the Assembly will keep us on our toes and perhaps as never before, but I hope we will be up to the challenge.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate you. I know you can bring your experience on both sides of the House to bear in doing this difficult job which is a critical job in a consensus government aided by Mr. Hamilton and Ms. Mouteritnak and the other capable staff of the Assembly. I want to close by wishing every honourable Member, their families and their constituents a safe and happy holiday, and a good new year. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The short answer to the Member's question is no, it is not at all usual to have such a length of time on an estate in the office for which I am responsible for. Right now there are about 576 files being handled by that office. About 40 per cent of those are from Inuit estates and steps are being taken through computerization to improve the turnaround time. So I can only assume this is an exceptional situation he describes. Thank you.