I would like to call this meeting of the Territorial Leadership Committee to order. I would like you to rise and I ask Mr. Tommy Enuaraq to lead us in prayer this morning.

---Prayer

I think all Members have a copy of the agenda in front of them. The next item on the agenda is the review and adoption of agenda. Are there any additions or deletions to the agenda? If not, is the agenda adopted? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

This is the first meeting of the Territorial Leadership Committee of the Members of the 13th Legislative Assembly. By way of some procedural items, you have the agenda in front of you and it is translated. You also have in your blue packages the rules and procedures for the leadership committee. There are eight items that just help Members to address how you will go through this committee today and tomorrow. Also, I would like to advise that, of course, we have interpretation in Inuktitut, North and South Slavey and Dogrib which is available to Members throughout the next two days. I think you can get used to your receivers which are here. Your volume and your channel selection is all in front of you as well.

Members should be aware that they're not required to turn on their microphones; they will be automatically be turned on for you. The Chair, once you have elected your Speaker-elect, will assume the Chair of the Territorial Leadership Committee and will have total control of the committee.

Also in front of Members, when there are speeches to be made, there is a timing mechanism in the Chamber, and the countdown will be on there for those Members who wish to make speeches. So when it comes to speeches today or tomorrow, you'll be able to see the time frame that you have left on your monitor in front of you.

We are being recorded for television and will be rebroadcasting proceedings on TVNC this evening and again tomorrow, and also CBC will be carrying certain portions of the proceedings live on their network.

This is a less formal committee than in the House itself. When Members do wish to speak, they have an option of remaining seated or they can stand. Probably the best thing for the majority of the time would be if you would remain seated if it's not for actual speeches later on today. But the choice of that is yours.

The next item on the agenda is item 5, the election of the Speaker. You have in your blue packages the Speaker selection guidelines. They are available if you don't have a copy. I think you all have them. They're in your blue package and they are fully translated as well.

My first duty is to open the floor for nominations for the position of Speaker. Are there any nominations? Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to nominate Samuel Gargan, the Member for Deh Cho, for the position of Speaker. Thank you.

Mr. Sam Gargan, Member for Deh Cho, has been nominated for the position of Speaker. Mr. Gargan, do you accept the nomination?

Mr. Chairman, would like to thank Mr. Enuaraq for nominating me. Yes.

The nomination has been accepted by Mr. Gargan. Are there any further nominations for the position of Speaker? Being there no further nominations, I therefore declare that you have elected Mr. Sam Gargan to be your Speaker-designate.

---Applause

I would now like to ask Mr. Gargan if he would take over the Chair of the Territorial Leadership Committee as Speaker- designate.

Thank you, Members. I would like to call this meeting back to order. Prior to proceeding with the next agenda item, I would like to express my appreciation to all the Members for electing me to be your Speaker-designate of this Assembly. I will say more on this on Wednesday when the House is officially opened.

The next item of business is item six, the number of seats on Cabinet. The floor is open for discussion on the item. I think most Members got a copy of the information that was provided regarding that item. General comments on the issue. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations to you an9 good morning. During the 12th Assembly, Mr. Chairman, the Members of the Legislature of the NWT talked about the possibility of having an extra position on Cabinet. The Members of the 12th Assembly felt that there was a need in the House -- some of the Members at least...Other Members felt that, because of the financial restraint we are in, it would cost extra dollars to have a position within the government and would also increase the bureaucracy in the system. Some Members also felt -- because I know this because I was the chairman of the Ordinary Members' Caucus -- the Premier, at the time, was overworked. Some Members felt that the Premier's job was to direct the Cabinet and the government in this case. Members felt that the Government Leader was taking on too many responsibilities in the system, thereby allowing her to now have enough time to do the directing and overseeing the operation of the government.

We've talked about this on more than one occasion. My feeling, Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, is that given the fiscal restraint that we are in today would it be ideal to have an extra position in the government, thereby having to come up with more money when we all know, it's public knowledge, that we don't have all the money in the world that we used to have some time ago. There are some programs and services are needed that we might be cutting back in the system.

When I travel throughout my region, I find people and see people who are in need of the services and programs of this government. It is my personal feeling, Mr. Chairman, that if we have to come up with an extra position in the government and increase the bureaucracy in the system at the detriment of the people who are in need of the services that I would not be in the position to support that. But if, in fact, the money could be found internally, perhaps I would support it.

At this point in time, I will listen to my colleagues to find out where the money is going to be coming from, what the government's financial position is and from there I will be able to make a decision. At this point in time, I am just making a point. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. General comments. Mr. Kakfwi.

I want to recognize the president of the Metis Nation, Mr. Gary Bohnet. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

We are still on item 6, number of seats on Cabinet. Are there any more general comments? Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a few comments on this issue. As I understand it, it was put on the agenda with the suggestion that there be a ninth Minister. I would really like to hear from those Members who are willing to fight hard for that idea.

Like the two previous Speakers, I have serious concerns about the cost of the ninth Minister, especially in this day and age when we are faced with impending cutbacks and a serious deficit situation. My view is that the ninth seat was put forward, as I understand it, because there is concern that in the last Assembly the workload was not divided evenly and some Ministers were overworked. I think partly this concern can be addressed by the new Premier, whoever that may be, by ensuring that the portfolios and the workload is divided evenly. Once we get into questions for the Premier candidates, those are some questions we can ask.

I am very concerned also that creating a ninth seat will be like the new Assembly creating a new job for ourselves. As I said, I would like to hear arguments for the ninth seat and hear exactly why it is we need the ninth seat. I have heard the cost of a new Minister may be upwards of $200,000 to $250,000 a year, including the salaries, travel money, staff and all the other costs that go with it. By the end of our term, this new Minister may cost the government an extra $1 million. That, to me, is unconscionable when we may be asking the regions to lower the student/teacher ratios perhaps, or asking the health centres to buy less equipment, or when we are telling our people that we can't afford to build any new houses.

I would like to be as open as possible with new ideas, so if I am convinced that we do need this seat, the costs should be in-house, as Mr. Ningark said. It should be paid for perhaps by cutting MLAs' salaries, cutting salaries of Cabinet Ministers or reducing our travel budgets. I can't see that happening because of the workload over the next few years leading up to division. So if we really do need it, I can't see putting any new money into it. That is all.

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Just to remind Members, while we are in the Chamber, anyone who is sitting in this seat is "Mr. Chairman." It is only when you are in the big seat that it becomes "Mr. Speaker."

Also, I want to apologize because I didn't know that the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories was here. Helen Maksagak, welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Mr. Miltenberger.

I would also like to recognize a former Member of the Legislative Assembly, Mr. Pete Fraser.

---Applause

Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. I would also like to recognize in the gallery, a former Member, Mr. Tony Whitford. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Looking good, Tony. Mr. Enuaraq. I apologize if I didn't say your name property.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, have some statements I would like to express. As we are all aware here within this Chamber, we know from the new territorial government and we're all aware of the population and the shortage of jobs for the people within the Northwest Territories. Many people are unemployed and we have to start providing a means of finding employment within the next three and a hallyears, during our tenure here as a new government. We are facing serious financial constraints worth a possible deficit of $100 million.

With these concerns in mind and the lack of financial availability, it's important that we remember that our priorities should include providing jobs for our aboriginal people living within the Northwest Territories. If we are going to lose jobs, then I believe if we are going to cuts jobs we should start with our own government in the higher levels; not from the bottom up, but from the top down. I'm not trying to say that I disagree with increasing the number of Cabinet Members, but the people who are my colleagues here should understand that this $250,000 will have to be set aside to provide salary and benefits for an extra Minister shou ld we decide upon that.

If we are mindful of our constituencies, we first have to look at their jobs and are they losing jobs at the same time. The people who have elected us, i1they are to lose their jobs, then I don't think we should be creating another position for Minister. I see this as a conflict. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. General comments? Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me, first of all, congratulate you on your appointment as Speaker. I wish all my colleagues here today a fond hello.

We are in the final days of this new government. Three and a half a year from now we are going to divide the Territories, East and West. My understanding, historically, is we have always approached the Cabinet from a balanced point of view. I wonder who can answer the question if it is perceived, or otherwise, that it isn't balanced any longer. There is a possibility that the public and some of our constituents could say that. That is an important question we have to ask ourselves.

I, like some of my colleagues, believe that the cost of this is way in excess of $250,000. I would suspect we could be looking at as much as $500,000 over a three-and-a-half-year period. That is a lot.of money. It is fine to say we will get the money internally, but you explain to me how we are going to gel it internally if it is $500,000. Perhaps the Clerk could clarify that later today, Mr. Chairman. It is important to understand the cost of this new Cabinet post that has been suggested.

I ran for office knowing the workload that that was expected of me by my constituency and by the larger constituency in the Northwest Territories. I ran for office knowing that I had to work ten hours a day, seven days a week to make things happen for the people I represent and the people that you represent. As a Cabinet Minister, I have worked hard to try to represent the territorial interests and, at the same time, balance off my interests in looking after my constituency, on an individual and community basis. I was one of those Ministers who was fortunate enough -- I saw it that way, anyway -- to have three portfolios plus two corporations. I found no difficulty handling my responsibilities. Granted, there is some stress but let's not overplay the fact that we ran for office knowing what we were getting into. We ran for office knowing that there were some difficulties ahead. I ran for office knowing that I was prepared to meet the challenge. I know many of you did also.

As my colleague, Mr. Ootes, said earlier, perhaps it is a little premature to appoint the ninth Member, given that the public may view this as a shameful waste of money. I think perhaps we should be listening to what Mr. Ootes says and we should be giving the new Premier, whoever he or she may be, the opportunity to assign the portfolios to the Members; whoever is elected as Minister. I have every confidence -- and I know almost everyone here -- that with the changes in the process that we discussed over the last two or three days, we are going to provide a mechanism for greater participation by ordinary Members, a process that is going to be more open and that will lessen the workload in terms of trying to reach a consensus on important issues.

I want to be very clear that I am not supportive, at this time, of the ninth Member. I think the costs are way in excess of $250,000. I am confident my constituency, and yours, would say that would be an inappropriate expenditure, given the difficulties that we are all facing. How do you tell someone who doesn't have a house that you can't have that house, we have appointed a new Minister. Ask yourselves that question. Whether it is perceived or real, we have to give the new Cabinet and the new Premier the time to grapple with these difficult issues and ensure that there is a fair and equal distribution of the workload. I am confident with some of the new people and the energy I have seen over the last week, we can accomplish that.

So, at this time, Mr. Chairman, I wouldn't be in a position to support the ninth Member of Cabinet.