Mr. Antoine.
Territorial Leadership Committee on Dec. 10th, 1998
Transcript of meeting #3 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 13th Assembly.
The winning word was chairman.
On the agenda
MLAs speaking
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 9
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this government has an initiative. There is an economic strategy that has been worked on for the west, as well as for Nunavut. Not being really familiar with the strategy, except for the transportation part of it, this is something that, perhaps, this strategy is looking at. I agree with you. I have, particularly in my riding in the southwestern part of the territories, there is going to be 11 wells going in this year. The chief and the people of that region are fully involved with this whole initiative, on their own, perhaps we could say, but this government has been working along with them, and in the Sahtu and the Delta as well.
Perhaps diamonds were the big highlight and have dazzled everybody, but I think in the background there is work going on in the oil and gas sector. What I have to do is familiarize myself with that aspect of how this government could deal with it. I know there is some work going on with it, but I think if we could look at it more closely and see what has been done, and through communications and making people more aware of what we are doing, this would be one way of approaching it. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 9
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. One has been ensuring that as a Minister I have been directly involved in promoting oil and gas activity, in Calgary by meeting with oil companies and letting them know that communities are interested, prepared to do business, that as a government, we are encouraging oil and gas exploration. We have indicated our interest in trying to simplify the environment so that there are less regulations and red tape that oil and gas companies have to go through in order to do business in the Northwest Territories. We costed it out last year that a drilling program in Alberta is anywhere from $300,000 to $400,000 more expensive just across the border in the Northwest Territories because of federal regulations that these companies have to go through. That is one of the reasons that they have stayed south.
We have indicated to them that we want to take over oil and gas administration from Ottawa, we are looking at ways to try to do that, for instance by setting up a pilot project in the Sahtu. We have promoted direct contact between communities that have lands which are available, that are in the communities, where oil companies have actually bid on parcels of land. We have worked with communities to help them prepare to do business and give advice on how to do business, that in the posturing sometimes, we have actually discouraged and driven away oil and gas companies, so we have worked actively with both sides to encourage as much activity as possible. Activity that would provide maximum benefits, jobs training for communities.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 9
The Chair Samuel Gargan
Questions, Mr. Henry.
Devolution of Powers
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 9
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question will be to both candidates. We have all heard about the candidates' visions and goals. One has to be able to dream to create a vision. So I am going to ask both candidates to do a little dreaming, Mr. Chairman. You have just finished a Cabinet meeting on a GNWT position on devolution of powers from the federal government and you are about to walk into a meeting with all the aboriginal leaders of the new Western Territory. My question is, what are you going to tell the aboriginal leaders, particularly the ones that have refused to participate in the process to date. What will you tell them that they will have to do to ensure that the GNWT can rightfully obtain from the federal government an orderly devolution of powers and particularly the
resource revenue royalty sharing? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 10
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In 1979, the Dene Chiefs met here in Yellowknife in February. At that meeting, the President, George Erasmus, made a proposal that we, as Dene people, should develop a strategy to put a Dene Member of Parliament in office in Ottawa. That we, as Dene people, should take part in the territorial elections that were going to be called later that year so that we can become effective participants in the decisions of this Legislature to take over control in those areas that this Legislature had, and to continue through the strategy to take on more and more responsibility for ourselves here in the north, and we would do it in partnership with everyone that lives in the Northwest Territories. I did not agree with the strategy, but the chiefs adopted it.
It has been my view since then that we are all compelled to support that strategy. It is my position that this government has now become effectively a part of the Dene strategy to assume more and more responsibility in the day to day affairs that we have. While some of our leaders do not recognize this government as a legitimate government - one that they have mandated to represent them as part of their inherent right to self-government - it is still an instrument to advance the work towards assuming and more responsibility. There is a way to get all aboriginal people, all aboriginal leaders on side in a devolution agreement. But, I believe they will agree to support this government's initiative, to assume more responsibility over inland waters, land and water management, oil, gas and minerals. The key is to hear the conditions that they insisted on and to reach agreement with them on it. Theirs is a very strong position in regard to self-government. They do have a right to know that some of the royalties and taxes that will come from development of resources in the lands up here should go this government because it is a public central government. Some of those resources and taxes should also go to aboriginal governments since they will also be providing services and programs to residents. These are the kind of things that they are looking for and these are the things that we can give them. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 10
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Henry is asking for me to do some dreaming here but the last few days I have not had many sleeps so what do I have to do. The scenario you laid out is going to be a really tough dream. You could converge it like a nightmare for me. But, hopefully we do not ever come to a position where we as a Cabinet will make a decision without the participation of the aboriginal First Nations. I think that is really the key. That is the key to having people in the north to control our own resources. We have to work very closely with the aboriginal First Nations, the Inuvialuits, the Metis and the Dene in this whole Western Territory in order for this to become a reality. We have been saying that for a number of years. Having come from being a chief and at one point in time, I said this government was not my government because of the imposition of ideas and programs that were put upon us without our consultation or without our input. But, again now some of us are here. We will make sure that we work closely with the First Nations to make sure this happens, but it has to happen.
I think we have progressed long and far enough through beginning of self-government arrangements and getting to the doorstep of negotiation in most of the areas. I think we have progressed far enough and I think the leadership in the aboriginal communities are aware of the funding shortage through the restraint that we imposed and we put it through ourselves. I think there has been a lot of talk between some of the Ministers who go into the communities. I know that whenever I go to the assemblies and having different meetings with the aboriginal leaders, I always talk about the funding. Some point in time, we are going to have to sit down and try to figure out how we gain control of all natural resources. The oil, gas, minerals in the lands and the waters in the Northwest Territories. It has to be done in conjunction with the aboriginal people in the north. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 10
The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Henry.
Leadership Reflecting New Vision for the Western Territory
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 10
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you to both candidates for their responses. Mr. Chairman, the mandate or plan or direction of the present government was created and is reflective of all peoples of the Northwest Territories; east and west, Nunavut and the new Western Territory. Mr. Chairman, on April 1st, the government will lead and should be reflective of the people of the new Western Territory. My question to the candidates is, what will I see from that leadership that will reflect the new western vision after April 1st? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 10
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think we already have a document that is developed by the western MLAs, you know, the vision of 1999 and beyond. It is a stepping stone. It is a start. I think we have been working on it and that is at the beginning of the vision here after division. I think I agreed with having an election in the fall of October 4th for continuity's sake, so that there would be no major disruptions once Nunavut is created on its own and we are left here in the west. For stability and continuity, I agree with that process. We also have to prepare whoever is going to come after us with all the problems that are there, and all the different scenarios that are going to be there at the time. We would know starting in
April 1st, not having to deal with Nunavut issues, we will be on our own. We will be focusing only on the west. So, that changes the way we do business here as a Legislative Assembly. I think it will be our task then to work together to try to lay out all the different issues and how we see it happening for whoever is going to come after us in the election, October 4, 1999. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 11
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once division happens, I think all of us are going to be compelled to work to develop an identity for ourselves. Something that will begin to help us see the unique characteristics that set us apart and will set us apart from other Canadians. We are diverse as a Inuvialuit, Metis, Dene, even within the Dene Nation. We are diverse.
As northern peoples, each of us brings different strengths and characteristics to our community. I believe that is an important part of our work ahead to start to articulate what it is that sets us apart, what it is that makes us northern peoples, and what would make us unique as citizens of the new Northwest Territories. I think that is beginning already, but also I think part of the vision is that we will always be a part of Nunavut. We will always be neighbours, strong supporters and a close friend to the people of Nunavut because of the enormous ties that we will have and the common history that we have had for so many years. That is going to be part of the character and the identity of those of us that live in the western part of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 11
The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Fear of Speaking out
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
December 9th, 1998
Page 11
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my questions will be for both candidates for Premier. Mr. Chairman, during the course of the research that I have done over the past year, I was shocked at the number of people in the public service and the number of business people who were outright fearful to speak out, to speak their mind, to voice opinions with respect to fear of reprisal from this government. I would like to know what each of the candidates think could be done to allay that. I know in other jurisdictions they have things like whistle blower legislation where it is a criminal offence to retaliate against people who speak out in the course of doing their job. I do not where this became so entrenched in our government and how it could have escalated to the point that people could have this kind of fear for their business and for their jobs. It alarmed me. I would like to know what each candidate would do to address that situation.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 11
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first of all I have to familiarize myself with that particular situation. I have not been aware that it is that bad. I know that people in the civil service have indicated, everyone I have worked with in the departments that I am Minister of, that what I have is that it was pretty good. I did not see any problems. Perhaps it has not been expressed to me, Mr. Chairman, but that is something that is done. If you could ask the different members within the civil service for their own comments and suggestions on how to get things done better. I think that might be a way of doing it. I do not know how to do that. Again I would have to familiarize myself with that whole area. As for businesses, I was not aware that businesses were fearful of their work. I am not familiar with that. I am not aware of that. If that is the case, it should not happen in the Government in the Northwest Territories.
I think people that work within the civil service should not be fearful of their own opinions. Everybody has their opinions and because one or two people have a difference of opinion does not mean one side is right and the other side is wrong. There are different ways of looking at things. I learned that many years ago, Mr. Chairman. In public life there are different ways of approaching it. I think that there should be something put in place. I do not know what this whistle blower legislation is. Again, I have to familiarize myself with that. As for the businesses being afraid for not getting work, I am not too familiar with that either, but if that is the case, that issue should not be happening. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 11
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that we have resolved to do through the adoption of the Report of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner is to address the whole area of how government operates; how the Cabinet conducts itself; the rules, guidelines and policies that exist or do not exist - we always look for ways to improve that - the way that government goes about doing its work, giving instructions to the civil service, the way in which the civil service is expected to respond and the way that they actually do. The public wants to know how we make decisions about how to spend money, how we go about deciding what to contract, to sole source and to negotiate. I think we have to be transparent and upfront about these things. Is there a perception that perhaps we have been unfair? I believe the perception is there. We need to look at the way in which we deal with our senior managers; how people are hired and how they are fired; why some people are given their walking papers and how some people are not. I believe we need to look at the way in which we relate to our senior managers collectively. What is the understanding and the agreement that we have with them? Are they really totally at pleasure of the Premier and the individual Ministers?
On the issue of contracts, there have been many questions in this House about how we deal with contracts; how certain contracts end up being awarded and whether this government and this Cabinet thinks we are right in what we do or not. We have that perception problem. I believe that it is my job to address that, not deny it, but say if that is the perception that we have a problem and to get down to dealing with that. Maybe there is no problem, maybe there is. It is not a fight about you are right and I am wrong, or I am right and you are wrong, rather there is a perception problem. If you have concerns, you have a right to address them and we have an obligation to resolve them. Thank you.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 11
The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Just before we ask for more questions, after Mrs. Groenewegen asks this question we will take a short break. I realize that TVNC is on. With Mrs. Groenewegen's question and maybe with the response from the Ministers they will have enough time to do something short
between that ten minute break. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Independent Review Process on Contracts Entered Into
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Page 12
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Antoine and Mr. Kakfwi, for those responses. As I have indicated previously in the House, I believe that some of the decisions of recent years, I would say even since the 13th Assembly came into place that there have been some very long term and lucrative contracts entered into. As I also previously said, I do not believe that the investigation that has taken place covered all of those matters. Although we are going to tighten up as we move forward, what would the candidates' opinion be of having an independent and very critical look at some of the decisions and some of the obligations that were committed to by this government, during the past three years, either through an independent person or through the Auditor General's office so that we could analyze those that would require some openness and access to the decisions that are made, but it would require the approval of the Premier, and I would like to know what their opinion is on that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.