Transcript of meeting #2 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 20th Assembly. (The original version is on the Legislative Assembly's site.)

The winning word was need.

Questions by Members
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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Ms. Wawzonek. Mr. Simpson, you have two minutes.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so the Member asked about our experience working with Indigenous governments. And, of course, on Cabinet, we had plenty of opportunity to sit with Indigenous governments, government to government, and have discussion. So like some of the other former Cabinet Members, I do know that leaders from across the territories. There are many advancements that we have made in the past government that we need to continue with. The Council of Leaders, I think it's an amazing body. Good work is done there; there's general discussions had but it's also led to specific opportunities to deal with issues. So there's the housing forum that came out of that. There's going to be work on our legislative agenda that is going to be informed by the Council of Leaders.

Personally, I had a number of initiatives that I have committed to work with Indigenous governments on. So the Education Act is one of those; it's one of the major initiatives. Initially, you know, we came into government wanting to get the Education Act done. It quickly became clear that this is not something the government can or should do alone and so I committed to working with the Indigenous governments to codevelop this very important piece of legislation, again, the first time that that's happened for a non-random resources piece of legislation. As well, I worked with the Tlicho and the band in Colville Lake to take a unique approach to building their schools so that they have a hand in this and actually have the lead on it.

I think there's a number of things that we can do to work with Indigenous governments more closely. We always talk about going to Ottawa shoulder to shoulder but to do that you we can't just show up in Ottawa, knock on a Minister's door and think you're going to get things done. There needs to be infrastructure in place. We need to have people on the ground working with bureaucrats before we show up with the Indigenous governments. And we need to show up with a plan so that when we get there, we are really capitalizing on the strength of that government to government relationship we have with the Indigenous governments. And I think that is really what's going to lead the territory into the future.

And in terms of land claims, I think it's possible to make more progress on settling land claims and self-government agreements in the next four years than we've done in the past 25. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Questions by Members
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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Next, Mr. Rodgers.

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December 7th, 2023

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Denny Rodgers

Denny Rodgers Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Given the need for economic stimulus in the territory, and specifically in the regions, would you commit to working, where possible, with local governments, local Indigenous governments, local businesses to ensure that work is done in the regions, creating jobs, building capacity, and keeping that work at home? Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Rodgers. Ms. Wawzonek, two minutes.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, that's an easy commitment to make. That's the work that we've already begun with respect to the Indigenous -- or with respect to the procurement review that took place and we saw tremendous change in the last four years where money that was previously leaking out of the territories is now being kept within our regions. But we can certainly go much further than that. At this point, we've only just begun the work of the work plan that is going see changes, such as a vendor performance management. And what that's going to do, imagine this, that we actually didn't know if somebody committed to having work kept in the territories, whether that's through procurement dollars or whether it was through their labour that they were going to be hiring, we had no mechanism by which we would actually monitor if our contractors were doing that. That is now in place, and it is important to make sure that we actually implement that and follow through so that if people aren't doing the things that they commit to that we know about it and we take action to respond.

We also need to make it more available to people in regions, to communities in regions, governments in regions, and the businesses there, what projects are coming down the pipes, what size are they, and are we structuring our procurement processes in a way that they are accessible to those who want to be bidding on them. There's already a lot of work that has begun. We've got a one-stop shop for procurement. That was a tremendous change. It's made it much easier. We do a lot of engagement with businesses to help educate them on how to do the procurement applications. But, again, earlier involvement and earlier knowledge as to what's coming allows people to be bidding in a way that is more successful.

That said, there's always going to be room for improvement. We've only just changed the BIP program, and one of the things I noticed when I was looking at the numbers this summer was that there's still an awful lot of companies that are not on BIP. Is there a reason for that? What is it not doing for them? What is it not providing to them? And is there a way to make it more accessible so that they can actually access that preferential treatment opportunity.

And lastly, certainly not least, is an Indigenous Procurement Policy. If we can unlock Indigenous businesses in the Northwest Territories to access our procurement, we will only benefit everybody in regions and in the GNWT as a whole. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you. Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. I agree that's an easy commitment to make. That's what we have been doing. When I was a Member in the 18th Assembly, I was quite frustrated at the amount of contract dollars from the GNWT that went south. We can't control a lot of the market forces that determine what the overall economy is like, but we can determine where and how we spend our money. And so at the beginning of this Assembly, I really pushed to keep those dollars in the territory. And being from the South Slave and so close to the Alberta border, I saw it up close and personal what the impact it has when those dollars flow south. Keeping money in the territory creates local employment. In the last Assembly, we started off with, I think, 30 percent of contract -- of the 18th, 30 percent of contract dollars went south. By the end of the 18th, 75 percent of all contract dollars were going south. In this last government, 75 percent of contract dollars now stay in the Northwest Territories. And that's something we need to continue. It also provides opportunities for training, and so we need to look at expanding some of the unique training opportunities we're doing to help people become journey persons and apprentices.

We also need to look at how we source our projects. You know, we need to look at perhaps standardizing some of the things that we do. There was a time when things like windows and what not were standardized for the housing corporation, which would allow a local company to actually tool up and then start producing those. So there's a number of manufacturing opportunities like that as well in the territory. So there's a lot that we can do. We have been doing more but we need to focus on it. And, again, I keep going back to this, when we develop our policies and our legislation we need to focus on the end goal of serving the people of the territory, and that means keeping the money in the territory. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Thank you for the question. So I think, like the old saying, is whatever job in a small communities -- or every one job in Yellowknife is worth ten in a small community. And I think that speaks to the importance of regional procurement opportunities and making sure money is flowing outwards from the capital. And I think in the 18th Assembly I was a champion for procurement reform. It's something that was passionate to my constituents at the time, and I've been watching closely what this last government has done with it, and I also worked in economic development for a small community. So I know exactly how important that was.

Now there's still a few missing pieces, but I think progress has been made and that progress allows us to move -- to work -- move quickly into something that's even better than we've got now. I know sole sourcing opportunities for Indigenous governments is a really high priority for them. I think it gives certainty around a lot of the projects and resources and revenue that they come to expect. And especially with settled claims, I think there's some expectations that are built into those anyway that we need to make sure we're following and that our policies are following as well. And I think the other thing that I'm committed to doing that would really help in terms of regional -- getting money out to the regions is closing the municipal funding gap. That's not just a Yellowknife problem. That's an everywhere problem. And, you know, my commitment is to make this work within the first operations of maintenance budget or change the formula. But it's going to be more money at the end of the day. Maybe not the full amount if we need to change things and right size it to community needs and community resourcing. But if we just do it now, that's $55 million that's going out the door to every community and that's in the hands of the local authority. That's in the hands of people who are making local decisions for local procurement. They're going to benefit local people and create local jobs. And those are the kind of policies I want to champion. If we're not all building the Northwest Territories together, we're just going to see more of that brain drain to Yellowknife or down south, and we have to keep skilled workers here and we have to keep opportunities here, and we have to build our territory together as one. Thank you.

Questions by Members
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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Mr. Edjericon.

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Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk, as a YKDFN member, we've been going on the land for a long time to practice our way of life. We harvest fish, wildlife, etcetera. We've been doing that since time immemorial. And in September of 2022, the Lutselk'e Dene First Nation has gone out to their Timber Bay camp and practiced their way of life for a very long time. And in September of 2022, RWED, now climate -- environment and climate change, is now the new department, has come into the camp and with choppers and wildlife officers and they raided the camp and looking for some illegal activity. But what happened there, though, it brought back a lot of memories of residential school trauma. I am still hearing it even to this day that the community is still in need of healing. And they want to know why the GNWT government has come into the community, in to the raid, why did they come to the Lutselk'e Dene First Nation to talk about this issue. Instead, what they did was they came and they raided the camp. So the chief is very adamant about asking for an apology. I raised it in this House a few times. And in the spirit of reconciliation, again, would the Premier stand up today and apologize to the Lutselk'e Dene First Nation if they become Premier. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Edjericon. First up will be Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's clear that the community and the people in Lutselk'e feel aggrieved, and it's clear that to go forward we need to repair that relationship so -- and I put a lot of thought into this. And this is something that needs to happen early in this next government. And I think what needs to happen is that the Premier needs to go to the community, maybe to the camp, sit with the elders, speak with the elders, and try to come to sort of resolution. An apology in itself is just an apology. I don't know if that shows the type of meaningful work with the people that is needed in this situation.

There are a few things in the territory as close to the people as being on the land as hunting and harvesting. And I recognize that it's of the utmost importance that we right this before it festers and it turns into a worsening relationship. So I've thought a lot about it, and one of the first things that I would do is I would travel to Lutselk'e and I would have those conversations. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Next, Mr. Testart.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for the question. This is a really serious issue. And if this next government is going to move forward on realizing treaty rights and treaty obligations and realizing land claims, then we have to take reconciliation seriously. And this isn't about the actions of one person, one Minister, any one individually, but the actions of the past -- of past governments and how we have to make amends for those and move forward.

I've already committed to an apology. I stand by that commitment. I think it's completely unacceptable how things were conducted. And regardless of the legalities of a potential investigation that are out there, what has happened has been thrown out of court and we deserve -- or sorry, the people of Lutselk'e deserve an apology for that. And I'm committed to doing that. And furthermore identifying compensation, even if it's just providing care for trauma that has been caused by this event, being present in the community from the Premier and the Minister responsible for Environment and Climate Change to actually speak to people, speak to elders, speak to the leadership, and make sure that they understand it's not just words, it's action, and put our money where our mouth is and actually, you know, pay the price of reconciliation, which is a high price. But it's worth paying if it allows us to move forward.

And, again, if we are serious about committing to finalizing the Akaitcho process, we have to start with that and we have to start with realizing some other historical issues that need to be addressed, right, and that's what the responsibilities that are placed on the Office of Premier, are to speak for the government and to speak to First Nation partners as well. And for me, this is not controversial. This is something that needs to get done. And there can be no equivocation. It needs to be clear and come with compensation attached, and I've committed to doing that for the Lutselk'e Dene. Thank you.

Questions by Members
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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Wawzonek.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, like my colleagues, this is a situation that can't be allowed to continue. It is marring the relationship between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the government in Lutselk'e and more importantly the people of Lutselk'e. I share my colleague's view that there is a path forward if we can come together. And when we all attended and listened to leadership speak to us about what they're looking for from this government, I took particular note when Chief Marlowe mentioned the need to come to the community, for the Premier to come to the community, and mentioning whether we can sit and have a drum song. And I know that he's looking for an apology, Mr. Chair, but I've took note that there's a window there by which there may be a way to sit down together in the spirit of reconciliation. I had it suggested to me that this could be in the form of an elders' council. That sounds very similar to what my colleague from Hay River was describing, that a path by which we can sit, explain exactly, as was asked, as to why the officers were there, what was it that led them to be there, what was the motivation for their being there, what has happened since then, and why are they pursuing this. And in the name of conservation, what is it that we can do to work together to ensure that we maintain conservation of the caribou but importantly maintain and preserve the rights of Indigenous peoples on their lands to engage in traditional pursuits.

So having that opportunity as, again I think already said, early in the administration of this government to go, to sit down, to discuss in the spirit of reconciliation, through a process that is driven and designed not by Premier's office, not necessarily even by the Government of the Northwest Territories, but by those with whom we need to sit down and have that opportunity. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Ms. Wawzonek. Next, Mrs. Weyallon Armstrong.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. As an MLA, we all have a responsibility to our constituents. As nominee for Premier, how are you going to advocate for the priorities and needs of Indigenous government throughout the territory and not just in your own riding? Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mrs. Weyallon Armstrong. We'll start with Mr. Testart. Mr. Testart, you have two minutes.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Range Lake

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for the question to the Member. I think we start with -- we start here in caucus at first and then talk to the MLAs who are representing those regions. And that's a process that we're all committed to, and I think we need to continue moving forward on and building shared priorities that are, you know, that guide the public government forward that are informed by the needs and realities of First Nations, Inuit, and Metis people throughout the Northwest Territories as part of their representatives here. And then going forward, we need to make sure that there's a check on our progress as a government. And that comes from maintaining strong relationships through bodies like the Council of Leaders, continuing co-drafting work through the Intergovernmental Council. And as I said before, moving forward into the future hand in hand, shoulder to shoulder, with First Nations in a constitutional convention where we can actually identify substantive roles that are integrated into our public government. So it's not just at the whim of the Premier or the whim of any given Assembly but it's built into our constitution and how we do -- how we build a public Government of the Northwest Territories that has a place for sovereign First Nations. And that's something that's going to take time, but we have to get the ball rolling on that.

I'm also very -- I was thinking of how the Government of Canada did trade missions back in the '90s, and they called it Team Canada. Jean Chretien took people to all sorts of destinations and brought, you know, luminaries and Cabinet Ministers and all sorts of people to open up these opportunities. That's when I said in my speech we need a Team NWT approach, that's exactly what I'm talking about, is to bring Indigenous governments into that process of lobbying Ottawa and other governments so we can open up those. And I think we should be even talking to sovereign First Nations in southern Canada as well, not just the federal government but many different relationships that we can build together. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Wawzonek.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, obviously we do have our own priority setting process that we are only just beginning to embark on, and I think all of us, every one of us, all 19 of us, have spoken of the importance of recognizing what we heard from Indigenous leadership from across the Northwest Territories. Once that's done, it is also very clear, and it was made clear to all of us, that Indigenous governments too have their own priority documents, their own strategic documents that they are putting forward for on behalf of their people. I suspect, based on what we heard over those two days, that there's quite a lot of alignment between us. It is time to start using that alignment and that overlap strategically, taking that alignment, going to Ottawa together, aligning our asks, making sure that we are speaking with one voice on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories where those voices are overlapping, and not going at cross purposes and not failing to utilize this opportunity of a shared voice from the North.

We have also already some forums that I think are beginning to come into their own but which can also be used in a much more dramatic way. One prime example of that is the Council of Leaders where governments from around the Northwest Territories, including the GNWT, come forward and sit together. They've begun to find their voice and begun to find their legs, and we have met with federal Ministers as a table, as a council of leadership table, but that table could speak more loudly directly to Ottawa, can speak more loudly on a national stage, and can really put forward priorities, as I've said, that I believe are aligned and shared for the whole of the Northwest Territories, whether it's major infrastructure projects like the Mackenzie Valley, whether it's better alignment of our energy alternative, whether it's Taltson or micro grids. These are all priorities that can impact all of the Northwest Territories, and we can begin as leaders to speak with a better and clearer singular voice where appropriate through forums such as the Council of Leaders and, as I've indicated, by going together when we go to Ottawa to speak about our strategic priorities. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Glen Rutland)

Thank you, Ms. Wawzonek. Mr. Simpson.