Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The surveyors managed to contact over 90 percent of all households in the N.W.T., a total of 14,536 households in all. I think the surveyors did a tremendous job and they deserve credit for making sure the corporation got complete and accurate data from their communities.

In analysing the results of housing surveys, it is standard practice to make assumptions about what the people who were surveyed need. A classic example is the assumption that every adult couple needs a house of their own. The 1992 Needs Survey did not make this assumption, Mr. Chairman. Instead, people were asked to indicate their housing preference, and many of them said that they prefer the living in extended family situations. This makes a real difference in the size and number of houses allocated to the community, and I think it is a big improvement on past methods of determining the size of the units required.

Every Member in this House know a lot about housing problems, because we hear about them and see them in each of our constituencies on a regular basis. The value of the survey lies in the fact that it provides a fair basis for making decisions about which communities get housing, how much, and of what type. Money for housing programs is scarce, and demand is high, so we must make sure that the dollars are spent where they are most needed.

The survey results also deliver a serious message, Mr. Chairman, and it is this, despite the considerable effort made by this government in partnership with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to deliver 400 new units per year for the last two years we are still in need of over 3,500 units.

The last housing survey conducted by the corporation in 1990 identified a territorial shortage of 3,136 housing units. The 1992 survey found 3,584 households in need. This represents an increase of about 14 percent. Part of the reason for this increase is because more households were surveyed this year than in 1990, but there is no doubt that the number of households in need has grown.

This new number, 3,584 households, also includes houses that could be brought up to standard through repair, rather than replacement.

The shortage of housing causes me great concern, and I know it is of concern to every Member of this House. We are not making the gains on the housing shortfall that we expected, although this government commits more of its budget to housing than any other jurisdiction in Canada.

Members know that it is very expensive to deliver housing in communities. We are looking at our housing designs and standards to make sure we are doing all we can to minimize the costs that are within out control.

In addition to escalating costs, our population is growing. The N.W.T. birthrate is twice the national average. The needs survey confirms the 1991 census figure that about 40 percent of the N.W.T. population is under the age of 19. These young people are growing up and having families of their own, and so the demand for more housing is increasing.

The downturn in the N.W.T. economy is also contributing to the need for more social housing. Unemployment is a serious problem in many communities, and unemployed people generally do not have enough income to get into, or sustain, private homeownership.

Mr. Chairman, I could spent more time talking about the unique conditions we have here in the N.W.T., that make the delivery of social housing so challenging, particularly in these times of tight money. Many of these concerns have already been expressed by Members during this session, in response to the recent decision by the federal Cabinet to proceed with substantial reductions in C.M.H.C.'s contribution towards new social housing construction in the N.W.T. over the next two years.

Members are aware the C.M.H.C. reduced the N.W.T.'s allocation of new units by 15 percent in 1990-91. In 1991-92, C.M.H.C. also implemented a new way of funding housing programs. In the past, the corporation negotiated with C.M.H.C. to provide funding for a certain number of units per year.

The new funding model is based on a capped, total dollar commitment, not on the number of units. This means that C.M.H.C. gives us a certain amount of money, and no more, and it is up to us to build as many units as we can with it.

In February, 1992, Mr. Chairman, the federal budget cut social housing programs back even more. Right across Canada, the federal government has reduced its contributions to social housing programs and the cutbacks are significant.

These reductions will:

1. Hold growth of the federal social housing budget to a maximum three percent increase, with no allowance for inflation. The cost of inflation must be funded from within the three percent growth factor;

2. Reduce the funding available for new social housing construction by 22 percent in 1992 and a further 36 percent in 1993; and,

3. Place ceilings on the amount of funding to operate and maintain both existing and new social housing stock.

Mr. Chairman, I cannot overemphasize how serious these federal spending cuts are. If C.M.H.C. funds decrease to the extend expected, the result will be immediate, and it will be dramatic.

I want to assure Members that we have been working hard on several fronts to get our funding reinstated to its former levels. When I met with the Standing Committee on Finance, in July, to review these main estimates, I told Members that we were engaged in serious and intense negotiations with C.M.H.C..

These efforts began right after the cuts were announced in the federal budget. In April, I attended a special meeting of provincial and territorial Housing Ministers to discuss the implications of the cuts. This was followed in June by a meeting between myself and the federal Minister responsible for C.M.H.C., the Honourable Elmer MacKay. Minister MacKay listened carefully to what we had to say about our unique situation in the N.W.T., and we were able to convince him that our needs were urgent.

Other Ministers in this government including the Government Leader, the Finance Minister, and the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, have made extraordinary efforts to seek help from their federal counterparts in this very important matter.

Also in June, at a meeting of federal, provincial and territorial housing Ministers, I urged the federal Minister and my colleagues in other jurisdictions to recognize the unique and urgent housing requirements of the N.W.T. We got a positive and supportive response at that meeting, and this helped persuade the federal Minister responsible for C.M.H.C., the Honourable Elmer MacKay, to ask Cabinet to address the funding shortage for new housing construction for the N.W.T., and the Yukon, on a priority basis.

I received word of federal Cabinet's decision not to reinstate social housing funding on Tuesday, September 15. As Members are aware the federal Cabinet's decision was communicated to Members the next day in my emergency statement to this House.

Although the response from the federal Cabinet was negative, we are not giving up.

I have written to my federal counterpart, the Honourable Elmer MacKay to ask for his continued support as we pursue this matter with his Cabinet colleagues. Madam Premier has written to the Prime Minister to request an urgent meeting to impress upon him, and the Cabinet, the devastating impact that these budget cuts will have on needy people in the N.W.T. We are moving quickly to build support for our case on a number of fronts, and we will keep on fighting for full reinstatement of the social housing budget for the N.W.T. We cannot give up, Mr. Chairman, and with the support of this House I hope we will ultimately be successful in restoring the much needed funding for social housing in the N.W.T.

Despite the uncertainty surrounding future funding, Members will not see any impact of the federal cuts in the 1992-93 main estimates before them. When the federal government's intention to cut back the social housing budget was first announced last February, many of the 1992-93 projects had already been committed.

We made the decision to proceed with the delivery of 372 cost-shared units this year, for the simple reason that we need each and every one of those units now. If our funding ends up being cut after all, we will all have to work hard to come up with creative solutions to what will be a very difficult problem. The corporation is already working on a strategy for maximizing delivery under reduced funding conditions in 1993-94, should it prove necessary. For 1992-93, however, the corporation is ready, and able, to deliver all of the planned units and they are all needed now.

Although we are faced with challenges and difficulties, I am confident that we will continue to make progress in 1992-93, through a number of positive initiatives.

I have directed the corporation to explore new options for providing housing. This year, the corporation is reviewing all its programs. There has been some consultation with communities on housing matters in the past, and there will be more in the future.

As new housing options are developed by the corporation in the months ahead, I will continue to seek the advice of Members of this Assembly, and people in the communities.

I have also directed the corporation to develop a framework for increasing consultation with housing associations and authorities, community governments, band councils and M.L.A.s. I want to ensure that the new programs we develop are acceptable to people, and will address their real needs.

People in the communities, and many Members in this House have told me that new homeownership programs are needed. Mr. Chairman, I completely agree, and it comes as no surprise that the survey has also confirmed this. People who rent their housing were asked whether they would like to become home owners in the future. The answers to that question were compared with people's income information, to determine how many could actually afford homeownership.

This is important, because we have many people who want to gain the independence and security of homeownership, but they earn too much, or too little income, to be eligible for the H.A.P. program, in its current form. In response to public demands for greater access to homeownership programs, the corporation has been revising the H.A.P. program so that more people can become home owners. As with all the corporation's programs, assistance will be given in accordance with individual need.

I am a firm believer in the benefits of homeownership for those who can afford it, Mr. Chairman. Homeownership offers people independence and security, but we must recognize that there are many people in our communities who simply cannot afford it. For these people, public housing must continue to be available to ensure families have decent housing, at a reasonable cost.

I have asked the corporation to look at how it can strengthen its relationships with communities, so that more responsibility for managing public housing can be transferred to the local level. The corporation is coordinating its work with the G.N.W.T.'s overall community transfer initiative.

I expect our work on this priority issue to be completed in 1993-94, and I can assure Members that consultation at the levels I mentioned earlier will be an important part of the process.

The way housing is delivered to communities is vitally important. One of the initiatives we are implementing in 1992-93 is an expansion of the rent supplement program, which will be delivered in Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Simpson, Fort Smith and Iqaluit.

Under this program, the corporation can guarantee a long-term lease to a private landlord for a specific number of public housing units. These units can be detached or in apartment buildings. The corporation pays the landlord the lease price for the units, and charges tenants rent according to income. The difference in the rent charged by the landlord, and rent collected by the corporation, is cost-shared, with C.M.H.C. picking up 75 percent of the subsidy.

Depending on location, delivering housing through the rent supplement program can be cheaper than having the corporation build and own new housing units. There are obvious incentives for private developers under the program, as well.

If we can stimulate private sector development through the delivery of social housing, I think this provides a great benefit to the community as a whole. Earlier this year, I was pleased to announce in this House that we had been successful in convincing C.M.H.C. to allow the application of the G.N.W.T. Business Incentive Policy on cost-shared housing contracts. This has resulted in increased opportunities for Northern and local businesses, and we should start seeing results in 1992-93.

The corporation is monitoring the application of the B.I.P. on its projects, and I look forward to reporting later to this House on the benefits received.

Housing construction must provide more jobs to local people in the communities. To achieve this, I am wearing my two hats, for Housing and for D.P.W., and working with the Minister of Education and the N.W.T. Construction Association. We are developing a strategy for G.N.W.T. capital construction projects for training northerners in the construction trades. By combining the efforts of all government departments involved in capital construction with private sector contractors, we will be able to provide expanded trades training and certification for local residents.

This will help create a skilled local work-force for the construction industry. The corporation will be expanding this initiative in 1993-94. Our goal is to ensure that communities get the maximum economic benefit out of housing construction projects, not just in the short-term through seasonal employment, but also in the long-term through the development of the construction industry.

We are also tendering our projects in a number of ways, Mr. Chairman, to maximize opportunities for local involvement. Projects are being delivered in a number of ways, labour only, ship and erect contracts, design/build contracts and projects where the corporation will be the project manager.

Mr. Chairman, I am asking Members today to approve a total 1992-93 O and M budget for the N.W.T. Housing Corporation in the amount of $98.493 million. The G.N.W.T.'s share is $53.732 million, as we expect a contribution from C.M.H.C. of $42.351 million, and miscellaneous revenue of $2.4 million.

The corporation is doing a lot of developmental work in 1992-93, and many of the initiatives and improvements I talked about today, will not be implemented until 1993-94. However, it is important to lay a solid foundation to allow us to face the challenges of today and tomorrow. With the support and advice of Members of this House, and all the people of the N.W.T., Mr. Chairman, I am confident that we can meet these challenges creatively and effectively. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

Thank you. Mr. Dent, the Standing Committee on Finance.

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Thank you. If I could indicate to Members in the House that we have visitors in our Gallery, there are students from the Sir John Franklin High School, grade 10 English class, the are accompanied by their instructors, Marilyn Colborne and Lynn German. Welcome.

---Applause

That concludes the remarks from the Standing Committee on Finance, and the Minister. Is it the wish of the committee that we bring in witnesses?

Agreed.

Thank you. Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms, can you escort the witnesses in, please?

Thank you. If I could call the committee to order. Mr. Minister, could you introduce your witnesses, please?

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is Larry Elkin, President of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. To my right is Jim Pratt, Vice-President of Finance, Housing Corporation.

I was on the verge of sneezing here, but there is no sneezing allowed in this Assembly. Just one comment I wanted to make, there are basically two pages of activities here, I should say, one page and then one dealing with contributions. However, what I will do is go to the information items, where it deals with the Housing Corporation, broken down into its departments, and we can go through that, and then come back and conclude the actual activity, itself.

Is that okay with the committee?

Agreed.

Thank you. We will deal with general comments. Are we agreed, there are no general comments? Mr. Todd.

He may be Mr. Teflon, but we are not going to let him get away with it.

---Laughter

He brought so many people here, the least we could do is ask them questions. Mr. Chairman, I think that most of this has been said in the past, and some in resolutions. I think that it is important, at least in my perspective, that one of the directions that we gave to the Housing Corporation is that we have got to look at alternative sources of funding.

I do not think we can down play that, I do not think it is just the Housing Corporation, I think it is the whole G.N.W.T. We have been too long, wards of the state, as they say. I think it is important that, at the senior management level, they find the time and energy to try and determine how other jurisdictions go about building housing.

If we continue on the same track that we are going, there is no resolve to the current problem, we are just going to be in a chaotic mess. Never mind the human costs of not being able to provide housing for people, there is an economic component attached to it. Let us not discount that. You know what kind of jobs, what kind of economic activity, takes place when you are building these houses in the small communities, that will undoubtedly not be there, therefore somebody has to pick up the slack, therefore, it is a cost to the G.N.W.T.

From my perspective, I feel that should be on the top of the list of priorities. As was indicated earlier, by Mr. Dent, the Standing Committee on Finance is looking, at the present time, at some creative ways in which to provide the Housing Corporation with some advice on alternative sources of funding.

With respect to more cost-effective design, we all read the newspapers, but some of us who are more knowledgeable, know that we can, in fact, build houses cheaper than how we have built them in the past. There has to be a more open attitude to this.

More importantly, one of the frustrations that I have had over the years, in my former life as a contractor, was the total lack of involvement of the contractors when you were trying to determine how you can more cost-effectively build housing. I found it very frustrating, why would not you go to the people who know most about how to build houses?

I understand that the Minister is putting forward workshops, I will beat you to the punch there, Mr. Elkin, to determine this, but the fact of the matter is, in the past it has not happened. I am pleased to see that it is going to happen in the future, and I hope it will be an ongoing process.

I think, if we stick to what we are doing, and modify it, make some of the changes that are necessary, we are a long way in terms of making housing more cost-effective. I think we are on the right track, when it comes to involving northern contractors, I have said that to the Minister before, and I hope he will continue the way he is going.

Clearly, and I can say here publicly that I am as guilty as anyone else in the past of perhaps not involving northerners as much as we should. With this new integrated approach, I hope that the current trend towards ensuring that northerners get the opportunity to build these houses, with some important conditions, continues.

Again, I think the Minister and Mr. Elkin should be congratulated for those efforts and it is not often that I give out compliments. I am not convinced however, that the previous staff necessarily saw this as a priority. I think that, under the previous jurisdiction they saw their mandate as merely building houses, rather than looking at the greater good of the Northwest Territories.

I did express in committee my concern with respect to the H.A.P. houses versus the public housing, and I know you did address it in your speech. I am concerned that we must ensure that there is adequate public housing for those that cannot afford to be in the homeownership program, and there are many of them in all of our jurisdictions.

The desire to build eight H.A.P.s versus one public house, I can understand, but it should not be to the detriment of those who need it most. I cannot stress that enough. I think we need to ensure that we do not get carried away with trying to build more houses, to the detriment of the people who desperately need housing.

I have two questions. One is, I would like to know at what point the Minister will be in a position to tell us how many public housing and H.A.P. units are going to come forward. The second would be the new criteria that you are setting for H.A.P., when will that come forward. These are two, very important, fundamental questions that have to be answered. I wonder if I can get those answered first, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.