Does the committee agree that we go into detail? Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, although most of the communities are at the basic level there are some that require more infrastructure, we realize that. I think the Minister himself recognizes that in his opening remarks, where he said "we also should and can respond more effectively to assist smaller communities in attaining a basic level of community infrastructure." The department is committed to doing that, Mr. Chairman, and you can look for some progress on that in the next budget. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments? Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, there is a note taken of the concerns raised on the floor of the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Chairman, as we are now in a new process of community consultations and the ability for communities, be they small or large, to priorize their requirements in their particular communities that we will get better individual feedback from those particular communities on what they feel is most important. As communities become more involved, then they will, at times, have the ability to say to us we would rather pursue this particular avenue than something else. I think that is why we are saying that in the next year there should be some changes made, Mr. Chairman, simply because the communities are going to be able to outline those priorities that they have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. General Comments, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I do recognize the concern, as does the department. As I said there will be a new policy forthcoming that will address those particular issues for those communities that, as Mr. Zoe says, may have been left out in the past. Over the past few years it has been done on an ad hoc basis, Mr. Chairman. The department feels that with a policy in place it will be done in a fair and equitable manner. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to also say a few things about the M.A.C.A. I agree with my colleague, honourable Henry Zoe, in his concern for the smaller communities. Since my involvement here in this Legislative Assembly I have become more aware as I try to represent people in the smaller communities. My priority is making sure, like all the M.L.A.s, that the people in the smaller communities have basic programs and services. The reality is that the Government of the Northwest Territories provides these basic programs and services to people in the north and, if you really look at the people in the smaller communities as compared to the larger centres all through the north, you find out that smaller communities particularly in the Dene communities are really at a disadvantage.

The Minister of M.A.C.A., in the last session, stated that because they are chief and band councils, they are unorganized. The chiefs in the communities were very insulted. In fact, the Chief from Wrigley, Tim Lennie, takes that as a slap in the face. You know when the attitude of the bureaucrats is because you are chief and band council you are unorganized. It is a real insult to the chiefs and band councils. Some of the chiefs have told me themselves that they do not like the kind of attitude that is coming from this department and the whole attitude has to change.

I would also like to add, from the life of this whole Government of the Northwest Territories, the amount of infrastructure capital that has gone on in the past when divided per capita, you find out that in the long run the people in the smaller communities have been neglected and disadvantaged. A lot of the arguments now are that there are not enough people in these small communities to warrant such big expenditures but you should not look at it that way, you are looking at a really small window if you approach it that way. You have to look at the total service that has gone on in the history of this government toward the people in communities and then you find out that people in the small communities have been neglected. What we are saying here is that it is about time that you take them seriously and give them the type of programs and services that they are entitled to.

In the preambles of each department you have goals, objectives and directives of each department. In there it states clearly what the department intends to do and I would like to suggest that maybe this department carry out what they say in black and white to all the small communities. Mahsi.

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The view that Mr. Allooloo might have expressed in the last session was not meant as an insult and I would apologize on his behalf if Chief Lennie and his band council were insulted. That is not the view of this government or of this particular department. I think it comes from some confusion with the word "unorganized". It does not mean in disarray in this instance, it is a Municipal Affairs term of the way the community is organized structurally and it was not meant as an insult so I would just reaffirm an apology on that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Gargan, your microphone is not on.

Mr. Chairman, I met with the Department of Municipal and Communities Affairs last month and we went through the needs of Kakisa. One of the things that the department said that they plan on doing is that the infrastructure has gone just about full cycle now and most of their concentration is going to be on smaller communities. I was really happy to hear that, Mr. Speaker.

We also discussed the assembly building that is going to be built in Kakisa and they showed us the plan for it. In the plan it allows for a large enough space for a feast or even a place where you could gather for a dance, small activities but not activities like basketball. The building is not designed for that kind of activity but it is designed for at least the kind of activities that small communities would be able to do. Further, the department has also advised us that the building itself does not restrict them from further allocation to include maybe other recreational facilities in the future.

Last month, too, I participated in the Standing Committee on Finance, as an alternate Member. The standing committee has also accepted the principle that every community, regardless of size, should be entitled to facilities that facilitate the mental, spiritual and physical well-being of the community. I think that has been an acceptable principle that the finance committee has gone with.

The other thing, Mr. Chairman, is that I have heard the government say we are going to be in a very touchy situation and in touchy times so as far as community plans go. I have here the community plan for Fort Providence and a lot of the plans are designed for new subdivisions, new roads, new drainage, new power lines, new everything. When I was at that public meeting several months ago, in May, I asked the community why is it that the plan asks for people to move further out into the bush, into the swampy areas where maybe more mosquitos are. It will cost more to build. I said we have a lot of good areas that the government owns, or has such as transportation and telecommunication. The R.C.M.P. have areas which are designated as commercial areas right now but are used as residential or commercial. I have asked that we look at future developments to new subdivisions, but that the community looks seriously at developing new lots and existing government lots. Transportation could be relocated for example. I think if we have laws and regulations with regards to residential and commercial areas then we do not have to force, for example, NorthwesTel from moving. The laws would require them to move if those are designated residential areas. So I just want to let the government know that we do not have a final plan for the community of Fort Providence, but I have been speaking with the hamlet manager about the plans and the situation of this government right now. I do not think we can afford to start pouring a lot of money to areas which require a lot of fill or drainage. Perhaps the hamlet should be looking more at existing areas that have road access. The road access is right across from the R.C.M.P. to the junction. Those are good residential areas. It might be parallel to the airport but it is on the opposite side of the road. I would prefer it if the government would look at that type of thing. That is more cost effective as opposed to, I agree with the community "wish list", but the reality right now is that wish list is good maybe down the line if the budget allows for it, but right now we have to be more of an economist. I think the community should look into that area so we do not run into a situation where we are creating or using up a lot of money for lot development when we should look at existing spaces along the public roads we have in the community as well as the access roads. Those are my general comments. I support my colleagues for North Slave and Nahendeh with regard to smaller communities. I only have one and I think they are quite happy with the progress with regard to allocation of capital projects. So I just wanted to tell the department I appreciate what they are doing.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

I think, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Gargan made some excellent comments. It has been a complaint in several of the communities of the Northwest Territories that when it comes down to residential areas the people who are going to live there live in the worst areas because all the other ground has been snapped up earlier on in the community's life.

The other point he raises that is encouraging is that if we can make use of existing roads and power lines obviously that is going to save us some money. So if the community of Fort Providence is willing, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs will go in there and meet with them and the Member to discuss this whole issue with a view to coming out with some new and innovative ways to provide residential areas and at the same time save us some money. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Are there any other general comments? What is the wish of the committee, that we go line by line? Detail?

Agreed.

Directorate

Page 11-9. Detail of capital. Directorate, buildings and works, headquarters, total region $87,000. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed