Mr. Speaker, on the business of community transfer initiatives, a lot of internal work has been done to try to come to an agreement within the government of how we are going to make ourselves capable of efficiently responding to those communities that wish to engage in talks leading up to possible transfer agreements.

In previous Legislatures, there have been attempts by individual departments to transfer certain resources, programs, positions, etc., to a number of different communities across the Northwest Territories. One of the things that has been learned is that, unless the government takes a one-agency approach it is not possible to ensure any success in concluding any of the initiatives. There are initiatives presently, that are still outstanding from years ago.

For instance, in Tuktoyaktuk, there were discussions for years on the transfer of social services. I am not certain that it has been concluded with any decisiveness. There is not a sense that there is a clear, coordinated approach to monitoring and evaluating the success we have encountered there.

There is quite a bit of work required just to finish off those things that were started already and the Members will be able to leaf through the implementation plan for community transfer initiatives, which has taken us up until now to have finalized as an official government document.

It does not mean we had no idea of how to approach it but it does take the bureaucracy some time to come to an agreement in terms of the format and description of the process and the terminology used to develop an official document describing the implementation plan that would be acceptable across all agencies of government. I believe that will be tabled probably tomorrow.

In any case, the first part of the work has been to respond to those communities that have expressed an interest in getting into these talks and, so far, we have responded, in between sessions, and between Cabinet meetings to quite a number of communities. We have gone into all the Gwich'in communities of the Delta. We have offered to have meetings in Inuvik. We are invited to go back to Inuvik. We were invited to go to Sachs Harbour. We were trying to finalize a date there a date there. We have had discussions with all these communities and there are a number of documents and proposals that are currently being developed. Communities are indicating that following a general discussion on the approach that the government will take, the concept that we are bring to our work that companies are taking some time to decide, whether follow-up work shops are required, whether a specific amount of money, work and research papers are required. We have gone to Rankin and met with all the mayors of the Keewatin. These are now being followed up by individual communities, asking us to come into their communities to begin specific community by community discussions. I have gone to Cape Dorset to have the discussion with the community there and we are following-up and responding to them in regards to the proposal they have submitted. We have gone to Pond Inlet to speak to the hamlet there to offer first hand to the community on a discussion with them on how we are going to approach the work. We have had a meeting with justice committees in that community as well. We have done, I believe, as much work as we can. It is not clear to me that the entire Northwest Territories is interested at this time, but we have served notice at a number of sessions now that, for those M.L.A.s who believe that their communities are interested to bring them to our attention. We have had discussions with different aboriginal leaders, we have sought invitations and received invitations and in each case we have responded and have tried to establish contact and acceptable dates for meetings. So far there has been a good positive response to the approach that we have taken.

That is a summary of the work that we have done to date. It should be further noted that those political leaders who are presently mandated to discuss the political self-government rights of aboriginal people in the western Arctic. The Committee of Political Leaders have served notice that the first priority on their part is to make sure that this legislature recognizes community transfer talks as the first priority requiring resources when requested by communities. They have served notice on a number of occasions. The western M.L.A.s met last night with the group and that was one of the points that was made. Further that communities will require additional money aside from engaging specific community transfer talks, they will require research in some cases to look at the type of community government models that they might use to approach the territorial government in seeking responsibility, recognition of their right to take on additional responsibility and additional resources. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the short answer to it is that all of those things that the Member has raised, we take the view that we have a specific objective in mind. We do not have a prescribed approach and a fixed menu when going into communities to enter into discussions. It is an approach that brings back to mind the Great Baker Lake affair of 1978 or '77, when ever it was. The Department of Local Government at the time was trying to decide, with the help of the Commissioner of the day, when you approach communities do you talk to them about an approach that was labelled "guided democracy"? That is you decide what it is they are allowed and are able to take about, and you give them a prescription on how to achieve the limited political agenda; or do you take the approach that lives up to the right of self-determination? The communities will decide, and you go in there with an open and flexible agenda, if you can. It is the last option that we follow. It has always been the approach that all aboriginal groups have sought and that is the approach that we are talking at this time. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that I mentioned earlier is that there are a number of communities that have started talks on a number of different areas, and those are still sort of in limbo. We felt we should shore up whatever credibility we have to assess those discussions that are hanging in limbo, and try to cancel them or finish them off

and complete them. One that jumps to mind immediately is in the case of Norman Wells, where we have talked for over three years about transferring the natural gas system and water sewage system to them. We have been unable to complete those talks, again because of the inter-departmental difficulties experienced. Those are one of the things that we have set out to do. There are a number of other ones that have also been tackled. In regards to where do you start first, once the initiative was made public last year and following it we knew that some communities did a great deal of work. For instance, in the community of Fort McPherson a group of people on a volunteer basis have done a great deal of work in trying to take control and manage ownership of the administration of justice at the community level, both for youth and adult offenders. This is the type of thing where you cannot go to any community and say we are offering to begin talks on justice because if the interest is not there, it is not going to happen. We have gone to McPherson, Arctic Red River, Aklavik, and Tuktoyaktuk at their request. In Inuvik they asked for an explanation, a chance to meet with us and ask questions about how we are approaching the community transfer talks, and generally to find out what the parameters of it were. We have not gone into any communities which have not asked us to. We know by talking to regional directors and M.L.A.s which communities are interested and which communities want to have initial talks. This is the approach we have taken.

The Member is correct. Because of logistics and limited resources we are going to have to operate on a first come first serve basis. In the course of discussions a clearer format of how we are going to take an overall approach is going to develop, when are we going to get into talks and what is the nature of the talks going to be. In some communities they are talking about taking over the administration of the public and social housing. In other communities they are talking about taking over the administration of the funds for the hunters and trappers association. They are also talking about amalgamating and creating new councils which would have the administrative, financial capability to handle public monies and programs on behalf of all regions. In other communities they are talking about taking over social services but only certain segments of it. In other communities they are talking about taking over justice but only for youth offenders, some other communities are talking about adult offenders. The range of it is incredible. In some communities the packages are very detailed and well advanced but in other areas it is very general. The work is enormous but I think it is because there are so many communities and we are at such a varied state of being organized, or unorganized, depending on your perspective. The political stature and organization of communities are so varied. Thank you.

The Member will know politically that is what I need to survive. I would be very happy if all communities moved with the easy ones first. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, we have had some talks with the Inuvialuit communities, the chiefs and the Metis leaders, tribal council, and that particular question has not been brought up. I do know that they are very interested in getting to these talks, and that these talks are intended not to prejudice the work that the Gwich'in are doing to develop self-government for themselves through the frame work agreement. If the Member is inferring that it is one of the objectives of this government to do otherwise, I think he is taking the wrong attitude towards the work. The work is intended to do what we can to help communities take control of existing resources, programs and services and to see if they cannot do a better job with those things which are currently available. The option is there. If the Gwich'in wish to cancel all talks until question such as the Member is raising are answered, the government is not going to complain. Thank you.