Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 15 has had second reading. Accordingly, the bill stands referred to a committee. Item 17, Second Reading of Bills. Item 18, Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Committee Report 1-12(3), Standing Committee on Finance Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 3-12(3), Final Report of the Special Committee on Constitutional Reform; Committee Report 4-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94; Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92; Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93; Appearance of the Languages Commissioner. Mr. Nerysoo, you are in the Chair.

Thank you. If I could call the committee to order. We were dealing with Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94 and Committee Report 4-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. We were also dealing with Committee Report 1-12(3), Standing Committee on Finance Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Chairman, let us deal with Committee Report 4-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Thank you.

I believe, Mr. Antoine, we had concluded all the matters relating to that particular report and had concluded all the recommendations. Is it the wish of the committee that we deal with Bill 1 and get into detail? Comments, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

I have some general comments, Mr. Nerysoo. I believe the committee wanted to do Bill 1 to go into the details of the N.W.T. Housing Corporation Capital Estimates.

Thank you. Is it agreed that we deal with this in detail?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Bill 1. General comments, page 3-10. Are there any general comments? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I made most of my general comments to the Minister before he appeared in front of the Standing Committee on Finance. However, I did want to confirm with the Minister some of the concerns with regard to his current strategy. It is not a concern, but a clarification that most of the intent of the corporation now is to look at housing in the north through a H.A.P. program. I believe the modified H.A.P. program has received a lot of compliments. I want to compliment the Minister for putting all the work and effort into redesigning that program, which would make it easier and more accessible to the people of the north.

However, at the same time, I am concerned that we may be placing too much of our effort into the remodified H.A.P. program and may, at some point in time, lose sight of the public housing needs in the communities. Regardless of the survey unit that he initiated in which people had indicated they would like to own their own home, I hope that the Minister is cognizant of the fact that public housing is needed and that the units should be made available to the communities that request them. I wanted to make him aware that, in as much as we want to build H.A.P. units across the territories, there are some communities that will need public housing. We are fortunate in our community that we can use the rent supp program in lieu of the public housing units, but there are many communities across the north that would not be able to take advantage of that. They still need public units. I hope not all housing dollars allocated will go into just total H.A.P. units and that we will keep some for other programs to be made available.

Mr. Chairman, my comments are mainly to commend the Minister on changing the H.A.P. program to make it more easily accessible to the people of the north. I believe the hard work that he has put into this has come into fruition. I look forward to looking at the program in the next year to see what areas that have to be still worked on to ensure that this program is delivered effectively. I am pleased that we are getting a lot more units in totality for the dollars that we are spending. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Member for the concerns she raised. We will take a look at it. This year, our programs are 50 per cent access and

50 per cent public units, whether they be rent supp or public. I fully understand that public housing is still needed in all the communities. We will just keep working to try to solve that need. I have told the Members already that if we work with and consult with the communities on the allocations, possibly we can work something out if it is needed between communities, as long as we keep the same number of units. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with my colleague the Member for Thebacha. We appreciate the fact, Mr. Chairman, that this program in your introduction makes it easier for people who do not have the time to build their own home because the N.W.T. Housing Association is able to build those homes and turn them over to the people who want to take advantage of the program.

By the same token, Mr. Chairman, I think we should not lose sight of the social housing needs of the people who, in my mind, are disadvantaged. When I say disadvantaged, I am talking about the people who are getting older but who are not yet eligible for senior citizens' homes and people who are middle-aged but are disadvantaged through some physical inability to build their own homes.

There are many people who want to build their own homes, and to own their own homes, but there are equally as many people who are not sure if they want to own their own home, because some people are a little more daring than others. In that sense, Mr. Speaker, I think we should not forget the people who need the public units. I agree 100 per cent with the Member for Thebacha. I also would like to commend the Minister of D.P.W. and N.W.T. Housing Corporation for taking the risk in introducing the new program which ordinary Members have been concerned about. I think, Mr. Chairman, that the Minister did the right thing by introducing the program at this time to make it more accessible to the people within this jurisdiction. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The two major concerns people have had with the old H.A.P. program is just what the Member has referred to. It is the inability to have time off work to build, or they do not have the skills to build. So I think we have come a long way in adjusting that issue, as well as too low or too high of an income. Those are the major problems. I think we have come a long way to address those issues. We are still looking for communities' input and advice on how to make the programs better yet. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Any other general comments? Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, I just have one problem I would like to make the Minister aware of. This fall, Mr. Chairman, several public houses were completed and were ready for occupancy and, during the selection process, some people in my own constituency were not too happy with the people who were getting it and members serving on that board did not declare whether or not they had a conflict of interest. It ended up that perhaps some allocations were questionable and Mr. Brian Hiebert was going to redo the point system; he was going to look at it again and see if there was some conflict there.

I just wanted to let you know because I think we still have problems with regard to people sitting on the board who look more towards their immediate families or relatives for those allocations. I think it should be clear to the Members that we should have someone from the band or the hamlet in the communities when the selection process is on, or even allow the bands or the hamlets to look at the list based on the priorities and points so that they will know who should be eligible. Even before hand, we could question whether or not the point system is actually accurate towards those individuals. I would like you to look into that. Again, I know that you have done a good job with regard to the H.A.P. allocations, but I hope we do not lose sight of public housing for people who cannot afford a house, and I am looking at single parents and young people who have just a small family. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have to do everything possible for those that can afford it and those who are willing to get into home ownership. For those that cannot afford it; young people or older people, whoever they are, we have to try to make as many public units available as possible. One way of doing that is freeing up the units from those that can afford to move out and move into their own homes. I have the same concern as the Member does about the housing authorities. The whole issue of housing authorities, the societies, is the next thing we are going to start working on. We are going to try to redo the rental program so that it is fairly spread out across the Northwest Territories. We should be able to report back to this Assembly by the spring on those two issues.

If you have band people in the community, they should belong to the housing authority, the Metis should belong to the housing authority as well as the local council. Those are the key players, so they should all have equal representation on that authority, and it will happen. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other general comments? Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess Mr. Gargan and I came from the same background; from the small communities where the potential for favouritism is very high. All we want is fair management of the program with no favouritism coming from the members who are in charge of determining who should get the homes under the program. There should be nothing based on family ties. I think whoever is giving out the points should, at any time, declare a conflict of interest where he or she seems to be in that position. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree 100 per cent with the Member and that is the reason we are going

to look at the housing authorities and we are going to make sure that everybody understands the rules they have to work under. We will make it as simple and clear, the same as conflict guidelines, as simple and as clear as possible. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other general comments. It is agreed that we go into detail?