Before you conclude your speech, almost at the end of the Housing Corporation Act, did you say Bill 13 or 3?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will repeat the last paragraph of the background report.

During the Third Session, the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation has again introduced amendments to the N.W.T. Housing Corporation Act. Bill 3, which would effect the elimination of the board of directors, was given first reading in the Legislative Assembly on December 4, 1992. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my section on background. I will now turn this over to the other Members of the committee.

Thank you. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions devoted considerable attention to an understanding of the specific reasons why the Minister was inclined to eliminate the Board of Directors for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

In general terms the rational for eliminating the board seems to be based on the following factors:

- The existing corporate structure and board structure is seen as not being consistent with ministerial government;

- The role of the board is perceived by the Minister to have changed to the point where it is no longer significant. Frequent debates over the roll of the Minister and the board of directors have occurred to the point, where the process of managing housing in the Northwest Territories can be seen as overly complicated and expensive. Reportedly, there have been difficulties in establishing clear lines of authority and accountability;

- The Minister has argued that the decision to eliminate the board of directors can be justified on cost factors alone. It has been estimated by the Minister that the total annual cost of board operations is approximately $600,000 with additional fiscal considerations related to goods and services taxation. This has been described as particularly significant in light of the federal government's decision to reduce base funding for new housing construction in the Northwest Territories by 59 per cent over the next two years;

- The high number of boards and agencies in the Northwest Territories was identified in the "Strength at Two Levels" document as a major issue to be addressed in reducing costs and ensuring effective Ministerial responsibility and accountability. This initiative is seen as corresponding closely to the model proposed in that report;

- Elimination of the board of directors would allow for greater ministerial involvement in ensuring that the housing policy is closely coordinated with economic, social, health and educational policies;

- Across Canada in response to increasing concern over housing and the cost of providing housing programs, the trend seems to be towards greater direct government control. The Minister advised the standing committee of his perceptions that most provinces including Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick have converted from corporations to departments, to achieve greater operating efficiencies. The standing committee, while fully understanding the Minister's position on the larger issue of eliminating the Housing Corporation Board, did want to take issue with certain of the specific assumptions which seem to underlay his stated rational.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions was somewhat concerned with the Minister's comments that the persistence of boards and public agencies might be seen as inconsistent with "ministerial government". Boards, agencies and public committees have been creations of successive governments within the Northwest Territories for many years and should not be seen as mutually exclusive of the trend towards increased clarification of departmental mandates and ministerial accountability.

The Minister's "blanket statement" that this board should be eliminated because it represents a structure which is not compatible with ministerial government risks sending a message that other boards and agencies will need to be eliminated simply because they can "get in the way" of ministerial objectives. Such a message is not acceptable to the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions.

The standing committee takes the position that there is a role for these agencies to play in the Northwest Territories and that, with open communication channels and clearly established roles, board functions can continue to complement the Minister's responsibilities and accountability by providing community input that would otherwise be lacking from departmental decisions.

This general argument should not be used as part of the rationale advanced for the elimination of the board of directors. It should also not be applied generally when considering any potential elimination of other boards or agencies. Public boards and agencies are not, in the standing committee's view, inconsistent with the principles of "ministerial government".

Similarly, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions was concerned that the Minister presented his plan to eliminate the board of directors within the context of complying with principles outlined in the "Strength at Two Levels" document. That report concludes that there are too many boards and agencies, and that they represent "one of the greatest areas of structural inefficiency in the G.N.W.T."

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions takes the position that the "Strength at Two Levels" report contains statistical inaccuracies with regard to the number of government created boards and agencies, over-emphasizes cost and inefficiency factors and gives inadequate consideration to the importance of ensuring input from the diverse and widespread communities across the Northwest Territories.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions wished to emphasize that the "Strength at Two Levels" report has never been endorsed by the Legislative Assembly as the planning document for which government reorganization should flow. The Minister should not be attempting to justify his decision to eliminate the board of directors at the Housing Corporation by referring to plans laid out in the "Strength at Two Levels" document.

With regard to cost factors, the Minister has also indicated that by eliminating the board of directors very significant cost savings can be realized. This may be true. However, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions question whether tighter, internal controls might have resulted in lowering board costs as well.

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister advised the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions that the current board of directors has been inactive for almost one year. He reported that, in that time, he has not received a single request from any individual, group or community asking that the board of directors meet. This suggested to the standing committee that management's direct approach with communities has been generally effective in ensuring that input is received from local authorities and governments.

The standing committee indicated to the Minister that this model of direct consultation should be strengthened and that a mechanism should be found for ensuring that community concerns are dealt with at the senior management policy level. This has been addressed in the new consultation framework which the Minister developed at committee's request.

There are other aspects that need to be considered as well. Many of the factors to which the corporation has had to respond with, shifts in housing policy have occurred as a result of Cabinet initiatives related to economic development, the delivery of health and social services or employment programs. The board of directors has been distant from these developments within other government departments and from the planning for interdepartmental coordination which takes place in Cabinet. This has led to inefficiencies both with respect to the representation of corporation interests in the development of global policy for this government and with respect to the translation of global policy into action. In many ways, it would be preferential to see housing issues dealt with in an organizational structure that operated more like a government department than a corporation. In practical terms, this shift has already taken place on its own. Eliminating the board of directors would merely formalize the organizational framework that has already evolved.

In summary, Mr. Chairman, in considering the Minister's rationale for elimination of the board of directors, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions took serious issue with some of the principles advanced.

However, upon examining the role and the function of the Board of Directors for the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, the Standing Committee came to the conclusion that it was not in the best interests of the government to maintain the existing board or corporate structure.

In making this finding, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions would in no way wish to diminish the hard work and commitment demonstrated by current or past members of this board. Certainly, their contribution has been very much appreciated. The fundamental reality is that at the present time the development and implementation of housing policy and programs in the Northwest Territories is better served by a management framework which places direct control with the Minister. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Koe will be continuing.

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

I would like to thank my colleagues for assisting me. Mr. Chairman, we have some recommendations and I would like to start with recommendation number one.

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In order to carry this out the Minister will need to amend the N.W.T. Housing Corporation Act. A bill is presently before the Legislative Assembly which purports to achieve this. While the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions approves of the principle of eliminating the board of directors, it was beyond its mandate to comment on the substance of the bill. The above recommendation should not influence the requirement for a full and open legislative review by the appropriate standing committee.

Indeed, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions believed that it was important to ensure that an adequate understanding of the implications which these amendments might have on territorial access to federal programs and funding. The Minister indicated that arrangements would be made to establish a "shell corporation" to ensure that access to Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation funding would continue unabated. Although the standing committee requested further details related to this so-called "shell corporation", it was not received.

The Standing Committee was of the opinion that further elaboration on the legal and structural parameters of the proposed "shell corporation" might be valuable to the Standing Committee on Legislation in evaluating the policy implications of this bill.

Mr. Chairman, I have recommendation number two. I move that this committee recommend that the Minister table in the Legislative Assembly a description of the proposed "shell corporation" model, including comments on its standing as a legal entity, its structural organization and its status relative to Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and other federal funding systems. And further, that this information be tabled prior to the review of the bill by the appropriate standing committee.

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Koe.

Mr. Bernhardt will continue.

Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions was of the opinion that in the absence of the board of directors there must be a well developed framework through which community concerns, suggestions and priorities can be considered at the senior management level of the N.W.T. Housing Corporation.

At the request of the Standing Committee, the Minister has proposed a comprehensive framework for community consultation on housing issues. The goals of the proposed framework are as follows: to make clear the corporation's commitment to consult with communities and M.L.A.s on an ongoing basis to address housing issues; to create increased opportunities for effective consultation and strengthened communication between the corporation and the communities and peoples it serves; to ensure more regular sharing of information and consultation with M.L.A.s, local housing organizations, community governments, band councils, Metis locals and community development corporations; and, to formally consult with communities and M.L.A.s on all major policy and program issues or new initiatives that meet either of the following criteria: policy or program issues which have a universal application and will affect all the Northwest Territories or all the communities in a region; or, policy or program decisions which will affect most or all existing clients.

The proposed consultation model includes strategies that would lead to improved communication with local organizations, with the public at large and with Members of the Legislative Assembly.

The Minister is proposing to institute a process through which the corporation would hold an annual meeting in every district of the Northwest Territories. Representatives of local housing associations and organizations within the district would be invited to participate. In communities where no local housing organization exists, representatives of the community government, band council, Metis local and any community development corporation would be invited to attend.

The purpose of the annual district meetings would be to provide a forum in which housing issues and concerns common to all communities in a district could be raised. The meetings would also provide an opportunity for the Housing Corporation to share information about its initiatives and programs.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions took the position that a system of annual district meetings would be a very positive approach to community consultation and could be an even more effective measure for ensuring regional input than is presently provided by the existing board structure.

Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have recommendation number three. Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that the Minister proceed to implement an ongoing

program of annual district meetings to commence during the 1993-94 fiscal year.