Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Monday, February 17, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

On the third Monday in February every year Canadians celebrate Heritage Day. Our heritage is what gives us our identity as individuals, as a community, as a region, and as a country. Celebrating Heritage Day promotes an awareness of the vital need to preserve our heritage for the generations of Canadians to come. In a time when many of us are promoting Canadian unity, it is important to remember that one of the strengths of our nation is its cultural diversity. This is especially true in the Northwest Territories, where a number of cultures maintain their distinct cultural identities while working together toward common goals.

The Heritage Canada Foundation has contacted museums in communities across the NWT to encourage and support participation in Heritage Day. The Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre got an early start on Heritage Day by hosting a special event on Sunday, February 16, in conjunction with the Heritage Canada Foundation, the Yellowknife Heritage Committee, the Multicultural Association, the Metis Heritage Association, the NWT Chamber of Mines, the Old Stope Association and Canadian Parks Service. Today, the Heritage Centre is open in the afternoon, and the public is invited to participate in a heritage scavenger hunt.

Aside from encouraging individual community museums to plan their own Heritage Day programs, my department is sponsoring a Heritage Day quiz which will be printed in News North so that people in all parts of the Northwest Territories can participate in Canada's Heritage Day celebration. Thank you.

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a Member's statement on the death of a student from Fort Simpson, here in Yellowknife, Thadeus Holman. On Friday, January 10th, young Thadeus Holman left Akaitcho Hall. On January 16th, it was learned that he had died alone and cold in a distant part of the city.

Mr. Speaker, Thad Holman was a good kid. He worked hard at school and was well respected by his teachers and his peers alike. I know that his passing has touched the entire community of Fort Simpson and the many schoolmates and friends with whom he shared his days in Yellowknife. I am sure that all honourable Members would join me in expressing condolences to his grieving parents, Christine Holman and Bill Lafferty, and to all his family.

At the same time, I would hope that all Members would seriously consider the concerns that I wish to raise about the level of supervision provided at the residence here, Akaitcho Hall, in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, although Thad left the student residence on foot around 6:00 p.m. or 7:00 p.m. on a Friday evening, there were no procedures to ensure that resident supervisors follow up on whether he safely reached his destination. Although the youth failed to return at 7:30 on January 12th, a Sunday, it does not appear that resident personnel took any sort of immediate action to determine his whereabouts or safety. They did not even contact Thad's parents to tell them that he was missing until supper time on January 15th, which was a Wednesday, although five full days had passed since he had been seen at the residence.

Mr. Speaker, our children are very precious to us. When we arrange for them to attend school in Yellowknife, we parents are turning responsibility for their welfare, their safety and their supervision over to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Something is not right here. I expect there are all sorts of excuses, and maybe even some policies, to explain why the lack of action by resident supervisors. I am not interested in excuses. I am interested in possibly making some changes so that parents from my constituency, parents from all western communities and all parents in the North, will be able to trust the care of their teenage children to this government institution. I will be pursuing this matter further during this session. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On April 11, 1991, the honourable Member for Yellowknife South commented in the 11th Assembly on the adversarial attitude taken by the Workers' Compensation Board in its dealings with injured workers across the Northwest Territories.

On Thursday of last week, my honourable colleague for Deh Cho commented on the board's treatment of aboriginal harvesters and on the closed door process that has been used to develop policies in this area. I rise today, Mr. Speaker, because I share both Mr. Whitford's and Mr. Gargan's concern. Something must be done about the Workers' Compensation Board.

Workers injured in the Northwest Territories endure unreasonable delays in the adjudication of their claims, delays in approval of returning programs, and a cumbersome appeal process. People who are unfortunate to live outside of Yellowknife -- like my constituency -- must deal with insensitive officials who consider it unnecessary to travel to the communities where no one must live and work.

Written communication from the board and its staff is formated in the most legalistic and imposing fashion possible. Internal policies that I have read are represented as law, operational preferences or representative of established policy.

Mr. Speaker, something has gone wrong. Where is the human component in dealing with people? Where is the regional representation? Where are the regional concerns being addressed by the Workers' Compensation Board? I find it -- we should all find it -- totally unacceptable that workers in the Northwest Territories would have to join together to form a self-help group in order to cope with the abuse they have received from the board and its administration. I believe this matter is of the utmost concern, and I would hope and urge the Minister responsible to give it his fullest attention. Thank you.

---Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to express my concerns about the operations of the Inuvik Regional Hospital. During the past year, and especially in the last few months, there have been inklings of unrest from staff and community people on what is going on in the hospital. Last week, there were a few instances where staff, supported by union workers in Inuvik, have had informational walks and talks with the public about their concern regarding management and staff.

I wish to express my support to the employees of the hospital. We need these workers to serve the public; and if they are unhappy, the public has the perception that they are not getting good service. Health care is a major issue and a major concern. I wish to make the Minister aware of what is going on.

I also have had numerous telephone calls and letters from residents of Inuvik expressing this concern. I will be following up on this issue with the Minister later. Mahsi.

Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, through you, I would like to inform the House about the health condition of our colleague, Ernie Bernhardt. As most Members know, Mr. Bernhardt was admitted to the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Wednesday night. I visited him this morning about 10:30. What he tells me is that he got sick Wednesday afternoon. When he was admitted to the hospital his temperature was 105 degrees Fahrenheit. At one point he was not able to walk. His throat was sore. He had a very bad headache. He was hooked up to IV during that time. This morning when I talked to him, he was in the lobby of the hospital feeling much better, but he still looked very weak, and he did not look very healthy at all.

According to Ernie Bernhardt the nature of his illness was not determined. He tells me he should be out of the hospital by tomorrow. I cautioned the Member to take his time, if he does not feel he is capable of doing his job. He was quite concerned about not being in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

I am sure all Members join with Mr. Ningark in wishing Mr. Bernhardt a speedy recovery. Members' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to have learned of an individual who had just committed suicide last Friday, and I would like to inform this House that Neevee Allianak of Hall Beach has committed suicide. Mr. Speaker, I bring this to the attention of the House out of my concern for this horrible, unacceptable problem that we have in the Northwest Territories. Somehow we have to get the message across to every individual in the NWT that suicide is not, I repeat, is not the solution to anything but is simply the end of a life and the creation of a lot of pain and suffering by the departed person for his family and the whole community.

It is a serious problem in the Northwest Territories. We have to come to grips with it. We have to work with the communities. We have to work with the individuals who might be suffering and want to self-destruct. People in the communities have to realize that problems of suicide are not someone else's problem. It is a defeat that we all suffer together. The government itself cannot find the solution or stop the problem. Government can only provide programs that would help the community to become strong and better equipped to deal with daily problems and challenges that confront them.

I would encourage everyone to work with their community leadership to find a solution to finally stop this very horrible problem that we have in the Northwest Territories. If we believe in creating a better tomorrow, we will work together in this most important work that we can do, which is to find solutions.

I am deeply moved for the Allianak family and offer my condolences to them. Thank you.

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Jeannie Marie-Jewell, MLA for Thebacha, on February 14, 1992. Mr. Speaker, further to the supplementary to Question O36-12(2) on direct and indirect costs of the NWT Housing Corporation Board, I wish to provide the following information:

The direct costs are in the following categories: 1) honoraria, transportation, accommodation and meal costs associated with the minimum of four board meetings and board committee meetings held annually; three in Yellowknife and one in a community location; 2) salary, benefits and expenses associated with the full-time executive secretary position for the board; and, 3) legal costs associated with attendance of an advisor at all board meetings. The total of 1991-92 costs, adjusted for inflation for 1992-93, is approximately $290,000.

The indirect costs are in the following categories: 1) attendance of senior managers of the corporation at the minimum of four board meetings and board committee meetings held annually; three in Yellowknife and one in a community location; 2) preparation of new policies, programs and procedures for consideration of the board which would normally not require cabinet approval; 3) preparation of divisional reports for each board meeting; 4) preparation of the annual budget and financial reports for the board; 5) follow-up to resolutions and action items arising from each board meeting; 6) responses to board members' inquiries to headquarters and the six district offices; and, 7) contact and correspondence with the chairman on new appointments to the board and on general management of the corporation. The total 1991-92 costs adjusted for inflation are in excess of $340,000. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to a question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 12, regarding legal action against Alberta pulp mills; and one more. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Marie-Jewell asked about the time frame of the proceedings in the Daishowa litigation.

This is an application for mandamus to force the federal government to conduct an environmental assessment of those areas of the project which impact on matters within federal jurisdiction. The matter was put on hold pending a decision in the Oldman Dam litigation. The Daishowa case will now proceed unless there can be a resolution of it by agreement. The federal court has called for a telephone conference to include all parties involved. It is scheduled for the end of the month. After that, we will have a more clear idea of the time frame involved.

If I may, Mr. Speaker, I have another return to a question asked by Mr. Gargan on February 12, concerning the support group for injured workers.

Mr. Speaker, the chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board is aware of the support group but to date has not been approached to meet with them. He is fully prepared to do so if they wish to discuss workers' compensation issues. Thank you.

Thank you. I would like to take a moment to welcome honoured visitors from Fort Smith: Mayor Dennis Bevington; president of the Fort Smith Chamber of Commerce, Mrs. Frieda Martselos; and president of the Metis Association, Mr. Ken Hudson. Welcome to our Assembly.

---Applause

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to a question asked by Mrs. Jeannie Marie-Jewell on February 13, 1992, regarding the status of negotiations on the transboundary water agreement. Negotiations with Alberta regarding a transboundary water agreement began in 1983. Several technical documents and a monitoring program were developed as a result of these negotiations. As both governments were heavily involved in the ALPAC hearings, there were no meetings held during the latter part of 1989 and early 1990. Once the Government of the Northwest Territories announced legal action against the federal government over the Daishowa pulp mill, Alberta suspended negotiations because they felt their case may have been compromised by continuing negotiations. In addition, Alberta has indicated that they may not be able to finalize an agreement with the NWT until they have reached an agreement with British Columbia. This is because the water quality and quantity of the Peace River is affected by the Bennett Dam and other upstream industrial developments in British Columbia.

As a means to rekindle negotiations, the GNWT cabinet, in the spring of 1991, directed the Department of Renewable Resources to negotiate an interim agreement with Alberta. These negotiations dealt specifically with water quality on the Slave River and its tributaries.

The Mackenzie River basin committee, which includes the negotiators for the NWT and Alberta, has made a commitment to conclude negotiations on all transboundary bilateral agreements within the Mackenzie River basin by the end of 1992.

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Housing. On Friday the Minister of Housing indicated to this House that the NWT Housing Corporation board of directors currently costs up to $600,000 to operate. It also costs an additional $775,000 for GST, since they are not a government department. Is the Minister of Housing reviewing the structure of the NWT Housing Corporation with the intent of restructuring the management of the corporation? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, does the structuring include the demise of the NWT Housing Corporation board of directors?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If you look at all the figures that are associated with operating the board of

directors of the NWT Housing Corporation, that would be one of the first things I would like to get rid of. It would save a lot of money.

Oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister of Housing. Since it is clearly his intention to get rid of the board of directors, this would mean that it would no longer be an arm's length agency. Would it be his intention, then, to put housing directly under the control of a Minister of this government?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This then, would provide centralization of the program. Could the Minister tell me whether the local housing authorities who operate under the current structure would also disappear?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.

Second supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Since the corporation was established in 1975, I believe, simply because this structure would make it much easier to access various federal dollars at arm's length from the government for housing programs, will this new proposed structure still be able to access federal funds in the same way that the corporation was able to do since that was the original intention in setting it up?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The funding from CMHC will not be affected by the change through the departmental structure. You will still have to keep a shell corporation within the department to ensure that the current agreements with CMHC and access to the CMHC program are still obtainable. Thank you.

Further supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister concerned that this shell that would continue to exist would really have no function since it will no longer be directed by a board?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct. We have no function. It will be operated as a department and we will not have a board. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people in my constituency are saddened and angry, and although it is too late to do anything for Thad Holman, Mr. Speaker, it is important that we do everything possible to ensure that our sons and daughters at Akaitcho Hall are cared for in the same attentive manner as they are when they are in their home communities. Will the Minister of Education agree to immediately review all policies and procedures regarding the supervision and care of students staying at the Akaitcho Hall residence?

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I agree that there is room for improvement over the existing system that we use in caring for out-of-town students that stay at Akaitcho Hall and other places in Yellowknife. I will look into the matter for the Member to see how we can improve the existing system. Thank you.

Are you taking the question as notice, Mr. Allooloo? The question is being taken as notice. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The job description for the Akaitcho Hall dorm supervisor states that the duties and responsibilities encompass those normally assumed by parents in the operation of a good home. This is in the job description. Would the Minister reassure this House that the department would not condone a laissez faire parenting style in which care-givers are encouraged to do nothing, even when the whereabouts of their children is unknown for five or six days? Mahsi cho.

Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, when I have adequate time to review the current situation and have had time to review the job descriptions of those people who hold those positions, I will try and find solutions to the problem.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. A question to the Minister of Health. Is the Minister aware of the highly volatile situation between the staff and the management at the Inuvik Regional Hospital?

Mr. Whitford, Minister of Health.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What steps will the Minister be taking to try to resolve the situation?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister proceed immediately with a full investigation into the complaints raised by staff?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister responsible for Housing. On Monday, December 16, 1991, page 123 of Hansard, I asked Question W10-12(1), Southerners Owning Homes in Both the South and the North. That question has never been replied to. Will the Minister reply this session?

Mr. Morin, Minister of Housing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take it under advisement.

The question is taken as notice. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. Recently the chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board told the press that injured workers could not be given lump sum payments for disability pensions because "They sometimes react to the windfall like lottery winners."

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe the chairman, speaking on behalf of the board, actually had the gall to suggest that some workers spend their money too quickly and then are worse off five years later. My question is: Does the Minister share the chairman's obviously paternalistic opinion that injured workers must be supervised like little lottery winners who lack the self-control to manage their money?

---Applause

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I certainly would not be so foolish as to ever admit to sharing anyone else's paternalistic opinions, so I would answer that question in the negative, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I know that since Mr. Patterson has assumed this portfolio, he has had access to a wealth of studies and written materials on the theory and administration of workers' compensation boards. Has the Minister come across any studies carried out in this or other jurisdictions which support the chairman's claim that workers who receive lump sum disability payments are worse off five years later? Is there any evidence to this effect?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any studies at all on that subject. I have not seen any, nor have any been brought to my attention. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

Since this board and its officials seem to be fond of representing their own decisions as the law of the land, will the Minister confirm for this House that the Workers' Compensation Act does not specifically prohibit lump sum payments of disability pensions?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, there are some limitations in the Workers' Compensation Act with respect to lump sum payments. The Member, as I understand it, is generally correct that there is no legislation, in general terms, for prohibition of lump sum payments being made, although the circumstances under which they can be made is circumscribed by the act in certain situations. Generally, his assertion is correct. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice. (Translation) As you heard the Member for Amittuq speaking about Neevee Allianak who committed suicide -- I have found that the people in my constituency who are waiting to go through the court process have a very difficult time in that it causes them to commit suicide because they are dreading the moment they have to go through the court system. (Translation ends)

They wait three or four months, and it becomes psychologically and emotionally difficult for young people to deal with this. In a lot of cases they commit suicide or attempt to commit suicide. Will the Minister look into a community-based judicial system in the aboriginal communities in order to prevent undue delay for people accused of small crimes?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to assure the honourable Member that I am fully in favour of, where possible, and where a community is willing to undertake these difficult responsibilities, our government giving as much support as possible to provide alternatives to the conventional justice system as well as alternatives to circuit courts. I will look forward to working with the honourable Member, since I know there are some people very interested in taking on some responsibilities in at least one community he represents, and other honourable Members, in coming up with creative alternatives to allow a more community-based approach and an alternative to sometime frustrations of the existing system. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Education. On Friday in Hansard I noted, in response to questions from Mr. Lewis, the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, regarding the schools in Inuvik, the Minister stated that he required community support, "What I require is the community council supporting the teachers in taking it to the divisional board." Mr. Speaker, I have a copy of a letter signed by the Inuvik Community Corporation and the Inuvik Gwich'in Council, supporting the teachers in their endeavour to resolve their concerns with management. What action is the Minister taking to investigate the situation?

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like the Member, I am very anxious to see the resolution of this problem in Inuvik. I have instructed my officials to seek solutions to this problem and ask them to work with the divisional boards. I am told that a meeting of the divisional board will take place on Wednesday and this topic will be discussed. In the Education Act it says that the school year shall be in session 190 days and the academic year has to be approved by the Minister, in consultation with the local education authorities. As a result, any changes to the academic year would have to be requested by the local education authority and approved by the Minister. So far, I have not received any requests from the divisional board or local education authority. I would expect that if the divisional board approves or supports the teachers, soon after they meet on Wednesday I will be getting a request. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue is one of definitions of administration in-service days or professional development days and who has authority to approve these. Has the Department of Education, over the years, consistently held the present position that all in-service days require a change to the school year and must be authorized by the Minister? Has there been a change in the policy, and does approval of in-service days require a change to the school year?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know the answer. I have to take the question as notice.

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health. The residents of my constituency have become increasingly concerned about the potential impact of contaminants entering the Athabasca, Peace and Slave Rivers as a result of paper and pulp mill development in northern Alberta. There is relatively little that scientists can tell us at the present time about the cumulative effects of pulp mill contaminants on human health. Since the Minister of Renewable Resources has indicated to this House last week that low levels of dioxin, furan and toxic fumes were found in fish samples in lakes near the Slave River system, will the Minister of Health please indicate what priority has been placed by his department on researching the health effects of environmental contaminants entering northern river systems from outside our boundaries?

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I asked the Minister what priority this department places this in, and he stated that he places it as a priority, but among the other health issues that we face in the North, I would like to know if it is a high priority or a low priority.

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister indicate to me what is the research capacity of his department to address this issue?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Your last supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the Minister indicated that this is going to be a high priority and since he has indicated that he will rely on the federal government -- the federal government has allowed all this development of pulp mills -- and since he has indicated that he has no research capacity, how can he state to this House that it is a high priority issue to be addressed?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Minister of Education, Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, this will have to be my own view, until the information comes into my office. It is unfortunate that there is so much frustration and misunderstanding on this issue. I am told there are two things that the teachers would like to see. One concern is that they would like to see a change in administration and personnel. The other concern is the director's ability to communicate to the department, and also to the teachers. They would like to get two and a half days for in-service and administration which they would like to take out of the 190 days which are set aside for school sessions.

I am told they cannot get both. At this moment they cannot get a change in the director and they have not been able to convince the community education council, or divisional board -- I am not sure which -- to get two and a half days for in-service administration which they would like to get. Unfortunately, that request has not been communicated to my office in the form of a letter. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As far as in-service is concerned this has traditionally been worked out between the staff and the administration so that you can get some professional work done. There is nothing in the act which says this is a legislated thing. I would like to ask the Minister; Is there a reason for the denial of the use of the one and a half days of in-service which has normally always been worked out amicably? Is that because there has been a breakdown of communication between the local authority and the school, or between the administration and the school? I am talking about the superintendent or director in the school. Where is the breakdown, exactly?

Mr. Allooloo.

At this moment I am not sure where the breakdown is. As far as I know, the education council has to apply to two divisional boards and the divisional board requests -- if they agree that the teachers should get two and a half days for in-service and administration they make that request to me. I have not received that yet. In fact, they have not been denied; I have not seen the request. Apparently it is up to the Minister to grant or deny the request. There has not been a request that has come to my desk from the divisional boards. That authority rests, I am told, with the Minister. Thank you.